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[Lasdrub]

Not much in Brawl deserves a second chance. I would like to pretend that entry never happened.

He isn't linked to Nintendo enough, so I wouldn't mind if he were missing.

 

[Camjo-Z]

I feel like we're going in circles here. Really, the gist of it amounts to "I don't want him there because of stupid fanboy bullshit." Because we just keep shifting criteria around where it's convenient to the argument.

why does wanting a game about nintendo to have characters relating to nintendo somehow equal fanboy bullshit

 

[PhantomR]

Snake isn't. In fact, the problem with snake is he's actively an iconic character on everything BUT nintendo consoles.

EXACTLY. He would've been a great addition to that Playstation All-Stars game. No problem.


But for Smash Bros? No way.

 

[Chrisness]

I feel like Nintendo wouldn't want to give Snake the respect of being in Smash if Konami doesn't release Metal Gear Solid 5 on the Wii U while it's on the 360 and PS4.

 

[Calamari41]

Kid Icarus had 3 games on Nintendo consoles.
Metal Gear had 5. By simple math we can find out that Snake was seen more often than Pit.

Do you really not see the difference between a Nintendo fighting game including characters from the first batch of Nintendo games ever made and a Nintendo fighting game including a third party character that is essentially exclusive to your competition's machines? The only Metal Gear games Nintendo has ever gotten, other than the Game Boy game, are ports. Snake is great, I love Metal Gear, but he doesn't "belong" in Smash Bros more than characters like Sonic and Mega Man "belong." In fact, I'm having a hard time thinking of anybody who belongs other than those two.

I think that if a third party character is being considered for Smash, they should be on the level of Mario and Link. This is just my opinion, I realize that Sakurai could throw in a Big Daddy because the thinks its funny or something.

 

[ffdgh]

Absolutely.

But in all seriousness he was very unique so yes.

Kill it with fire!

 

[Ushojax]

If he does come back will they just reuse the voice clips from Brawl or use the new Bauer-Snake? Can't really see Konami wanting Hayter-Snake in a new game.

 

[Piers]

Only with David Hayter's voice.

Which I think is the reason we won't be seeing him - Keifer Sutherland is now 'Snake' and he ain't a cheap actor.

 

[Rubius]

Kill it with fire!

 

[Razgriz-Specter]

Yep. I'm sure that Metal Gear collectors will jump on the Wii U the minute they see Snake on it.
I should really try a Metal Gear game one time, never played one. After seeing DSP playing Metal Gear Solid 3, I want to try playing it. He is so awful at it, that its like playing Portal 2 after seeing iJustine. You feel smart.

MG1&2, TTS, Ghost Babel or maybe even Acid are all good places to try.
others are just too crazy as a starting point, despite the updated gameplay.
If that doesn't matter Peace Walker has the best gameplay.

 

[Fandangox]

The Wii U is not strong enough to handle MGS 5, so we might see some remake or original title.

Irrelevant, but isn't that game coming out in PS3/360 too?

 

[SYNTAX182]

Sonic is in Brawl because he was far and away the most popularly requested character. There has never been any indication that Sakurai chose him for any Nintendo console loyalty or history related reason and saying there is is an extrapolation from nothing.

Ok, thanks for the correction. The point still stands. Fans voted in Sonic. Snake was begged in by Kojima. Sonic is now relevant on Nintendo systems so he makes sense. Snake is not, I wouldn't mind if he was gone even if I love him as a character.

Was Kid Icarus relevant in Nintendo consoles on the Wii? Hell, is Megaman relevant at all right now? The only game Megaman have right now is Smash.
Smash is not about relevance, its about icons. Megaman is an Icon, people want to see Megaman vs Mario. Snake is an icon. He's a Character that people want to see battle against other people.
Ice Climbers are the icon of the 8 bit era and Mr Game and Watch of the Game and Watch Era.
I would not be surprised if we get Ryu in Smash this time.

Kid Icarus is a Nintendo character. Megaman has relevance on Nintendo systems and is also an icon, yes. I doubt they'd put Ryu in there, though that would be pretty awesome. All those other characters you mentioned are Nintendo created characters.

Snake was put in because Kojima begged Sakurai. He's not relevant on Nintendo systems. He's an icon, but an icon on Sony systems, not Nintendo, at least nowadays.

 

[Haines]

I doubt it. I see Nintendo wanting to make the new edition special and separate from the last and adding the same 3rd party selections doesnt do that

 

[PhantomR]

Do you really not see the difference between a Nintendo fighting game including characters from the first batch of Nintendo games ever made and a Nintendo fighting game including a third party character that is essentially exclusive to your competition's machines? The only Metal Gear games Nintendo has ever gotten, other than the Game Boy game, are ports. Snake is great, I love Metal Gear, but he doesn't "belong" in Smash Bros more than characters like Sonic and Mega Man "belong." In fact, I'm having a hard time thinking of anybody who belongs other than those two.

Yup. I could maybe see an argument for Simon Belmont or Bomberman. But that's about it.

 

[Steve Youngblood]

Again, I'm not an advocate for his removal. I understand why people think he's not a fit in the roster though. If Smash is just a game full of iconic people, then lets just open the floodgates and let in Crash and Spyro and Digimon while we're at it.

The number of games on the platforms is irrelevant, what is relevant is whether or not the brand has a strong relationship in the image of Nintendo as a whole.

Seriously, ask around GAF even, what's more synonymous with MGS, Nintendo, or PlayStation?

Again, my point is that was true in Brawl. If he wasn't in Brawl already, I'd probably be in the same boat of thinking that there are many more characters aside from Snake that are probably more likely candidates for inclusion. But despite those odds, Sakurai threw him in there. What I'm baffled at now -- and this doesn't have to apply to you -- are the people that think that these silly platform wars politics should have a bearing on the character in terms of assessing whether a character that is already in the game series "deserves" another chance.

If you think that Snake isn't an iconic Nintendo character, that's fine. I probably would have agreed with this sentiment 7 years ago before Brawl was revealed (though I wouldn't have protested even back then). However, the legitimacy of this criteria of worthiness is undermined when the motivation is "put a new game on the Wii U or else!"

 

[Buntabox]

If he does come back will they just reuse the voice clips from Brawl or use the new Bauer-Snake? Can't really see Konami wanting Hayter-Snake in a new game.

I think this will be the big decider. Do they let it be Hayter-Snake (whether new or reused audio) or do they do Keifer Snake?


Also, Kojima keeps talking about the serious "taboo" themes of MGSV. Would this effect whether he'd want Snake in or not?

 

[Calamari41]

Again, my point is that was true in Brawl. If he wasn't in Brawl already, I'd probably be in the same boat of thinking that there are many more characters aside from Snake that are probably more likely candidates for inclusion. But despite those odds, Sakurai threw him in there. What I'm baffled at now -- and this doesn't have to apply to you -- are the people that think that these silly platform wars politics should have a bearing on the character in terms of assessing whether a character that is already in the game series "deserves" another chance.

If you think that Snake isn't an iconic Nintendo character, that's fine. I probably would have agreed with this sentiment 7 years ago before Brawl was revealed (though I wouldn't have protested even back then). However, the legitimacy of this criteria of worthiness is undermined when the motivation is "put a new game on the Wii U or else!"

I'm with you when you put it this way. Since he's already in, yeah just keep him I guess. But it never did make much sense to me why they put him in 7 years ago instead of Mega Man.

I think maybe people were thinking that the move was signaling a new relationship between Kojima and Nintendo, but all we've heard from him any time Nintendo ports are brought up is him basically saying "fuck that shit lol." I can understand the salt.

 

[gogogow]

Hum, was pretty sure it was a Ps4, XbOne game only. Anyway, making a game for the Wii U is different than on the other consoles anyway. Its not simply a question of bug fixing. You have the Gamepad to deal with.

Whats up with the gamepad? Devs has been saying that it's easy to do. But of course devs will use that argument when they don't want to develop for the Wii U. Like Kojima...

 

[Whiskeymatt]

Of course he does. Even if MGS does bring to mind Playstation more than any Nintendo console, Snake has been on Nintendo consoles before and fairly recently, and he fits perfectly within the campy atmosphere of Smash Bros. I'd love to see him come back again and I really hope that Kojima and Sakurai make it happen.

 

[Rubius]

Whats up with the gamepad? Devs has been saying that it's easy to do. But of course devs will use that argument when they don't want to develop for the Wii U. Like Kojima...

Metal Gear Solid is rumored to come to the Wii U if we follow that leak. Also, why do you sound so damn angry that he do not want to dev for the Wii U? Its his choice really.

 

[Foxy Fox 39]

why does wanting a game about nintendo to have characters relating to nintendo somehow equal fanboy bullshit

How is it not a game about nintendo if a few third party characters are included? Was brawl suddenly a game devoid of Nintendo's charm, past or characters because it had Snake or Sonic?

If I am a standup comedian and my set consists of 33 fart jokes, and 2 jokes about the subway is my set not considered a fart centric show? How would you describe it to someone? If you're smart you'd probably say that my comedy show was about flatulence.

If you intentionally and viciously murder 33 people and save 2, you're still a serial killer.

Snake, Megaman, and Sonic cannot possibly stop Smash Bros from being a game that is ABOUT Nintendo characters and that's how it will always be described.

 

[BlackJace]

Again, my point is that was true in Brawl. If he wasn't in Brawl already, I'd probably be in the same boat of thinking that there are many more characters aside from Snake that are probably more likely candidates for inclusion. But despite those odds, Sakurai threw him in there. What I'm baffled at now -- and this doesn't have to apply to you -- are the people that think that these silly platform wars politics should have a bearing on the character in terms of assessing whether a character that is already in the game series "deserves" another chance.

If you think that Snake isn't an iconic Nintendo character, that's fine. I probably would have agreed with this sentiment 7 years ago before Brawl was revealed (though I wouldn't have protested even back then). However, the legitimacy of this criteria of worthiness is undermined when the motivation is "put a new game on the Wii U or else!"

I think I understand you. I've always agreed that now he's in, just keep him. But yeah, if you ask me whether or not Snake is an iconic Ninty character, I'm saying no.

 

[Village]

Who would voice him, I dunno if keifer is doing that.

 

[gogogow]

Metal Gear Solid is rumored to come to the Wii U if we follow that leak. Also, why do you sound so damn angry that he do not want to dev for the Wii U? Its his choice really.
http://cdn.wegotthiscovered.com/wp-content/uploads/wii-u-leaked-games-rumor.jpg[/IMG[/QUOTE]

Other than the Nintendo games, I wouldn't count on it. Konami isn't even willing to put PES on the Wii U. It would've been the ONLY football game on the console.

 

[Air Zombie Meat]

I'd rather lose Sonic than Snake. What a boring ass moveset.

 

[Foxy Fox 39]

I think I understand you. I've always agreed that now he's in, just keep him. But yeah, if you ask me whether or not Snake is an iconic Ninty character, I'm saying no.

Obviously. Neither is Sonic or Megaman.

 

[Rubius]

Other than the Nintendo games, I wouldn't count on it. Konami isn't even willing to put PES on the Wii U. It would've been the ONLY football game on the console.

We are still in the Last gen cycle. Stuff will change when we will move to gen 8th fully. People will have the choice, just like Last gen. Do I want more power or a new gameplay mechanic? We will see stuff from Kojima on the Wii U.
http://www.shacknews.com/article/72928/kojima-says-wii-u-a-special-case-requires-unique-software

MG1&2, TTS, Ghost Babel or maybe even Acid are all good places to try.
others are just too crazy as a starting point, despite the updated gameplay.
If that doesn't matter Peace Walker has the best gameplay.

Thanks, I do have TTS, so I might go play that some time.

 

[ffdgh]

Obviously. Neither is Sonic or Megaman.

In Sonic's defense, he has had both adventure games, gab games, ds rush games, colors, Olympics and the old Nintendo rival thing going.

Megaman...he was in tatsunoko vs capcom but left our for MvC3? My mega man knowledge is lacking

 

[Razgriz-Specter]

We are still in the Last gen cycle. Stuff will change when we will move to gen 8th fully. People will have the choice, just like Last gen. Do I want more power or a new gameplay mechanic? We will see stuff from Kojima on the Wii U.
http://www.shacknews.com/article/72928/kojima-says-wii-u-a-special-case-requires-unique-software


Thanks, I do have TTS, so I might go play that some time.

just keep in mind a few little scenes are more over the top than the original, and the voice acting is bit lower quality. Still a great game though.

 

[Nightstick11]

Free? People who like Snake will buy Smash to play as him, where people who dont know Snake will look his games up. You bring people in with Snake. He was in Brawl, I really dont see why we should put him out because people are sad to not have Wii U Snake games. Which, by the Wii U leak, should happen. The Wii U is not strong enough to handle MGS 5, so we might see some remake or original title.

That is not a one way street.

While the bolded is technically true, surely you two must concede that Konami benefits more from Snake's inclusion in Smash rather than Nintendo benefits from it.

People who love Smash will buy Smash regardless (and as we've seen, that's a good chunk of people). Some Nintendo-only gamers either do not or will not have any interest or idea or awareness of Snake and Metal Gear Solid, but once they start gathering trophics and reading background info etc., they may be interested.

Smash is amazing for bringing awareness to previously obscure games (witness the surprising success of Fire Emblem, which is probably attributable to the popularity of Marth) and the Kid Icarus Uprising, which surely was aided by Pit being in Brawl.

If Konami is planning on releasing MGS iterations or collections on Nintendo, they will (and have already, probably) benefit greatly from Snake's inclusion in Smash. If they don't release MGS on Nintendo, well, it is certainly arguable that Nintendo gamers who also own Xbox or PS would certainly be more interested in MGS comparing before-Smash vs. after-Smash.

 

[Rubius]

While the bolded is technically true, surely you two must concede that Konami benefits more from Snake's inclusion in Smash rather than Nintendo benefits from it.

People who love Smash will buy Smash regardless (and as we've seen, that's a good chunk of people). Some Nintendo-only gamers either do not or will not have any interest or idea or awareness of Snake and Metal Gear Solid, but once they start gathering trophics and reading background info etc., they may be interested.

Smash is amazing for bringing awareness to previously obscure games (witness the surprising success of Fire Emblem, which is probably attributable to the popularity of Marth) and the Kid Icarus Uprising, which surely was aided by Pit being in Brawl.

If Konami is planning on releasing MGS iterations or collections on Nintendo, they will (and have already, probably) benefit greatly from Snake's inclusion in Smash. If they don't release MGS on Nintendo, well, it is certainly arguable that Nintendo gamers who also own Xbox or PS would certainly be more interested in MGS comparing before-Smash vs. after-Smash.

Metal Gear do not need Smash, nor does Smash need Metal Gear. They both have a massive franchise and fanbase. By doing that, they gain both new fans. The mature audience who hate kids game will try Nintendo games, while the anti mature games players might try Snakes games. Its a win win.
Sonic is pretty much a second tier dev right now with Nintendo. Would not be surprised if Nintendo end up buying Sega in the next 6 years.

 

[Calamari41]

In Sonic's defense, he has had both adventure games, gab games, ds rush games, colors, Olympics and the old Nintendo rival thing going.

Megaman...he was in tatsunoko vs capcom but left our for MvC3? My mega man knowledge is lacking

Mega Man was one of the premier series on the NES and to a lesser extent the SNES. An all-time video game icon.

Sonic of course belongs if only for the rivalry between him and Mario for the entire duration of Sega's existence as a hardware manufacturer. The Sonic games that came out on Nintendo systems, and the fact that they sell the most there, is icing.

 

[Foxy Fox 39]

In Sonic's defense, he has had both adventure games, gab games, ds rush games, colors, Olympics and the old Nintendo rival thing going.

Megaman...he was in tatsunoko vs capcom but left our for MvC3? My mega man knowledge is lacking

Mega Man was one of the premier series on the NES and to a lesser extent the SNES. An all-time video game icon.

I couldnt care less about their backlog. Theyre not iconic Nintendo characters. They're iconic yes, but not iconic nintendo characters. They don't deserve to be in Smash Bros anymore than snake or any other 3rd party character.

 

[Calamari41]

I couldnt care less about their backlog. Theyre not iconic Nintendo characters. They're iconic yes, but not iconic nintendo characters. They don't deserve to be in Smash Bros anymore than snake or any other 3rd party character.

Then your stance is that zero third party characters belong under any circumstances, which I think is a position that anybody can respect.

I have to say though, back before the series moved to Playstation, Mega Man may as well have been a Nintendo character.

 

[SpacePirate Ridley]

Mega Man was one of the premier series on the NES and to a lesser extent the SNES. An all-time video game icon.

Megaman and Simon were even in Nintendo centric cartoon show.
If someone of Konami would be in, I prefer Simon than Snake its more historical to Nintendo.

 

[CorvoSol]

I'd like for Snake to come back. His inclusion in Brawl was wildly popular, and what got me into the Metal Gear series. I can't imagine that Snake and Sonic are not among the most requested returners.

 

[Foxy Fox 39]

Then your stance is that zero third party characters belong under any circumstances, which I think is a position that anybody can respect.

Actually no. My stance is the exact opposite. I expect, and welcome the addition of more 3rd party characters including Pacman --- because it is happening.

 

[Camjo-Z]

How is it not a game about nintendo if a few third party characters are included? Was brawl suddenly a game devoid of Nintendo's charm, past or characters because it had Snake or Sonic?

I see his inclusion as something like the Rabbids in TMNT Smash Up or Big Daddy in PSAS - he doesn't really take anything away from the game, but he doesn't really belong there either.

 

[SYNTAX182]

I couldnt care less about their backlog. Theyre not iconic Nintendo characters. They're iconic yes, but not iconic nintendo characters. They don't deserve to be in Smash Bros anymore than snake or any other 3rd party character.

But maybe they're bringing Megaman back onto Nintendo systems in the future. Maybe that's why he's in there since the Megaman franchise is in limbo at the moment, Capcom doesn't know what to do with him. Of course that's just a guess. It certainly worked out for Sonic and the Sonic games.

 

[Calamari41]

Actually no. My stance is the exact opposite. I expect, and welcome the addition of more 3rd party characters including Pacman --- because it is happening.

Certainly some 3rd party characters belong more than others though, right? People are expressing whether they think Snake meets whatever criteria they have in their mind. As I said before, I don't necessarily mind Snake being in since he's, well, already in, but I think that Mega Man should have been in instead of him in Brawl, for example.

 

[kick51]

You mean "Does SSB deserve a second chance with Snake"

 

[Calamari41]

You mean "Does SSB deserve a second chance with Snake"

Can you, or any of the other people who have said this exact thing, explain what this means? Each Smash Bros has outsold every Metal Gear game in history.

 

[Foxy Fox 39]

Certainly some 3rd party characters belong more than others though, right? People are expressing whether they think Snake meets whatever criteria they have in their mind. As I said before, I don't necessarily mind Snake being in since he's, well, already in, but I think that Mega Man should have been in instead of him in Brawl, for example.

I think belong is a loaded term. You have to realize that this is a video game and the first criteria is to entertain and be fun. Certainly some characters seem like a better fit than others, but I think there isnt any character that simply CANT fit into a SmashBros game.

I remember people telling me, and i mean vehemently arguing, back when Brawl was coming out that Tom Nook/an AC character and a mii was totally a stupid idea that would never work or fit with these games -- yet here we are. As lame as it may sound, lack of imagination is the only reason a character coudlnt fit into Smash Bros and Nintendo has made it quite clear they're not lacking in that department --- it's the Smash Community that generally is.

edit: To answer your question I dont think any character belongs more than another. This isn't some popularity contest. Its not like the most popular kid thats friends with Nintendo belongs to be in. There are different criteria than that.

 

[VahnSSR]

Yes because he was really well made and fun to use. His codec calls were also awesome and Shadow Moses Island had metal gears in the background!

 

[IAmtheFMan]

I think belong is a loaded term. You have to realize that this is a video game and the first criteria is to entertain and be fun. Certainly some characters seem like a better fit than others, but I think there isnt any character that simply CANT fit into a SmashBros game.

I remember people telling me, and i mean vehemently arguing, back when Brawl was coming out that Tom Nook/an AC character and a mii was totally a stupid idea that would never work or fit with these games -- yet here we are. As lame as it may sound, lack of imagination is the only reason a character coudlnt fit into Smash Bros and Nintendo has made it quite clear they're not lacking in that department --- it's the Smash Community that generally is.

That's a bingo. Plus the Smash community tries to use precedent as a reason why something may or may not happen and if Sakurai has proven anything, it's that precedent doesn't matter. At all.

 

[Steve Youngblood]

I think belong is a loaded term. You have to realize that this is a video game and the first criteria is to entertain and be fun. Certainly some characters seem like a better fit than others, but I think there isnt any character that simply CANT fit into a SmashBros game.

I remember people telling me, and i mean vehemently arguing, back when Brawl was coming out that Tom Nook/an AC character and a mii was totally a stupid idea that would never work or fit with these games -- yet here we are. As lame as it may sound, lack of imagination is the only reason a character coudlnt fit into Smash Bros and Nintendo has made it quite clear they're not lacking in that department --- it's the Smash Community that generally is.

edit: To answer your question I dont think any character belongs more than another. This isn't some popularity contest. Its not like the most popular kid thats friends with Nintendo belongs to be in. There are different criteria than that.

Right right. Honestly, the only meaning criteria such as "how iconic are they," and "what's their history with Nintendo specifically" have in my book in is conjecturing how likely they are to be included, as opposed to making qualitative judgments in regard to merit.

 

[mantidor]

I personally wouldn't mind to see him gone, I get he is not just some random character and his importance in japanese gaming iscompletely cemented, but he is really not that relevant to Nintendo and what Smash Bros is about, which is basically celebrating Nintendo, not Japanese gaming in general. If anything Final Fantasy characters would be more relevant, even if Nintendo consoles haven't seen a main entry in more than decade.

I trust Sakurai anyway, whatever he choses will probably be fine by me.

 

[Razgriz-Specter]

Really if they want this to feel like a true next-gen game,
no character should be removed besides someone like Toon Link imo.

 

[baekshi]

No.

 

[ErichWK]

Who cares if a third party character in brawl is on nintendo consoles. It's a video game about a fat plumber beating an elf with the help of a yellow rat that shoots lightning. Nothing makes sense, nothing matters. It's all in good fun. Why can't people just have fun.