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[gradient]

Oh please. Then how did Nintendo get away with Animal Crossing's NES games, or Metroid Prime and Zero Mission including the original Metroid? What about the Virtual Console? Selling NES games on eReader cards?

I take it you have an explanation for PS3 playing PS1 games too. All the compilations of Sonic, Mega Man, Street Fighter...

Companies providing a means of legally accessing their product?

I take it you struggle with the concept of ownership?

 

[diffusionx]

I admit I'm not that well versed in copyright law, including emulation, but from numerous court cases it seems legal for now, but laws are always subject to change.

But, here's a scenario:

Let's say Steam pushes the envelope further and allows emulators that can play Switch games and say allow a brand new emulator in its store that can play all of Nintendo's next generation games when the Switch 2 or whatever newest hardware Nintendo comes up with. Will they have a clear cut winning case if Nintendo takes legal action? They also have the financial means to fight Nintendo's lawyers.

Valve wouldn't be violating Nintendo's rights. If the emulator was using some illegally obtained information or whatever then that is a different story but I assume we are talking about a "proper" reverse engineered emulation system. Reverse engineering a piece of hardware is legal. Getting a piece of software to do the same stuff as another piece of software or a piece of hardware is legal. That simple. If somebody uses it for illegal stuff, that is that person's problem, not the person who made the legal software.

Like if say it was an emu that required a BIOS and then they hosted the BIOS on Steam Workshop, that would of course be a violation of Nintendo's rights.

No, you keep parroting it because it's the internet equivalent of sticking your fingers in your ears and yelling "lalala! I can't hear you" when faced with something that contradicts what you've blindly bought into.

You avoid the implications, be it legal or financial, to all parties involved because you haven't considered them and the mere possibility of them contradicts that narrow little view of the law you have which has the legal position fall neatly into a simple "yes/no now and forever" bucket you've convinced yourself exists. Law is seldom, if ever, so clean cut and is in itself a constantly evolving mess of contradicting legislation that is constantly tested and challenged. Hell, even the laws you're trying to hang off are nuanced and nowhere near as clear cut as you'd like to believe - just the right to backup your games has caveats and varies wildly across different countries.

Remind us all, how did the makers of Bleem fare from that legal battle?... where is Bleem today? I notice that while you're eager to cite them as a point in your favor, you avoid the ultimate outcome of that battle and a point I've already made and which you've tried to dismiss as "FUD". The legal battle killed them. But like I said, you have your head in the sand and don't have any grasp of the subject or implications. Bleem got popular, Bleem went mainstream, Bleem got hit with legal action, Bleem died. And all the while there were ignorant fools like yourself telling everyone that the threat is all just "FUD" (the 90's equivalent escapes me) and later trying to console themselves with the "Win" that resulted in the death of the emulator, the fall of the company behind it, and set emulation back into the shadows for years to come.

This is what winning looks like:

Oh... and they had to change that image shortly after posting it to their website for fear of further legal action.

It's called lawfare dude, which sadly has little to do with the actual merits/facts of the case.

 

[gradient]

It's called lawfare dude, which sadly has little to do with the actual merits/facts of the case.

Indeed, but it is a consequence of exposure and breaking the status quo. Bleem serves as a good example of the fuck around and find out nature of this issue.

 

[MatrixReloaded101]

That's one way to force Nintendo to move on to new hardware . Lol

Well, looks like it's time to get a Steam Deck.

I could be wrong here but to my understanding a lot of the first party switch games don't even run well on the steam deck. Its not like this will allow you to play Zelda TOTK at 4k/60 FPS day one.

The switch especially the OLED (if you care about handheld mode) will still be the best place to play those games.

 

[Sorcerer]

I know it's not illegal and I don't think emulators are a bad thing, but I just don't think it's a good look.
Imagine if the PlayStation or Xbox marketplaces started allowing Dolphin or epsxe to be on their stores.

Microsoft allows you to download RetroArch for your Xbox if you have a dev account. Although supposedly they simultaneously have a policy against it???

 

[Kuranghi]

GC was a big fat failure & Wii was trashed (and still is with folks perpetuating myths about its library or software sales) but people were excited for emulating them more than any other system out there, hence the great support/financing for their emu. Ah well, at least their value is recognized now.

PSA: if you cannot get rid of shader stuttering no matter your ubershaders setting etc., try switching to DX12 instead of Vulkan. For me that finally got rid of it even though Vulkan is meant to be the better API and I suppose doesn't cause that for everybody. Emulation is 1:1, maybe a bit more taxing.​

I just ended up using this custom version:

[UNOFFICIAL] Ishiiruka-Dolphin Custom Version

I S H I I R U K A - DOLPHIN This Version complements Official Dolphin-Master giving support for legacy devices, and reducing cpu usage on the graphic thread. The focus is the gaming experience and spe

forums.dolphin-emu.org

I think the only issue I had was it didn't support that newer texture compression type that stops a different kind of stuttering when you use giant texture packs, so I went back to the master and I don't believe I had shader stuttering again anymore anyway, maybe because of Vulkan.

 

[H4ze]

I could be wrong here but to my understanding a lot of the first party switch games don't even run well on the steam deck. Its not like this will allow you to play Zelda TOTK at 4k/60 FPS day one.

The switch especially the OLED (if you care about handheld mode) will still be the best place to play those games.

Thank you, I know, I even own a switch. Was more for shits and giggles.

(And my PC does the trick pretty good haha)

 

[Senua]

Not a good look for a company that relies on providing a marketplace for software developers to be facilitating something that is almost exclusively used for software piracy.

"Emulation is legal" is very much a country specific argument that rests on a very precarious legal line. If it becomes mainstream as part of a major corporation's efforts to gain marketshare and undermine a competitor then it's a legal point that could become a thing of the past very quickly. Analytics on the uptake and usage of Dolphin via Steam and potentially on the ROMs that they're using with it could undermine the whole premise of emulation being fair game for tech and research purposes.

Fuck around and find out territory.

 

[zcaa0g]

Not a good look for a company that relies on providing a marketplace for software developers to be facilitating something that is almost exclusively used for software piracy.

"Emulation is legal" is very much a country specific argument that rests on a very precarious legal line. If it becomes mainstream as part of a major corporation's efforts to gain marketshare and undermine a competitor then it's a legal point that could become a thing of the past very quickly. Analytics on the uptake and usage of Dolphin via Steam and potentially on the ROMs that they're using with it could undermine the whole premise of emulation being fair game for tech and research purposes.

Fuck around and find out territory.

I bet you're real fun at parties.

 

[RoboFu]

I could be wrong here but to my understanding a lot of the first party switch games don't even run well on the steam deck. Its not like this will allow you to play Zelda TOTK at 4k/60 FPS day one.

The switch especially the OLED (if you care about handheld mode) will still be the best place to play those games.

It was satire. Not every post is a critical statement.

 

[MrTroubleMaker]

Direct link without the nonsense referral link that dude/bot puts on everything

 

[badblue]

Not a good look for a company that relies on providing a marketplace for software developers to be facilitating something that is almost exclusively used for software piracy.

"Emulation is legal" is very much a country specific argument that rests on a very precarious legal line. If it becomes mainstream as part of a major corporation's efforts to gain marketshare and undermine a competitor then it's a legal point that could become a thing of the past very quickly. Analytics on the uptake and usage of Dolphin via Steam and potentially on the ROMs that they're using with it could undermine the whole premise of emulation being fair game for tech and research purposes.

Fuck around and find out territory.

This is hardly "Fuck around and find out" territory.
The Dolphin emulator has been around since 2003. Nintendo has had all the time between then and now to shut the project down and hasn't. Considering how strict they can be on things they do consider within their legal rights they probably can't do anything and I doubt being on Steam will change that.

 

[gradient]

I bet you're real fun at parties.

Nothing says, "I have nothing meaningful to add, but need to feel involved" like driveby shitposts. Are we on 4chan?

 

[gradient]

This is hardly "Fuck around and find out" territory.
The Dolphin emulator has been around since 2003. Nintendo has had all the time between then and now to shut the project down and hasn't. Considering how strict they can be on things they do consider within their legal rights they probably can't do anything and I doubt being on Steam will change that.

It's absolutely fuck around and find out territory. It's a major corp utilizing the emulator to undermine a competitor as opposed to a bunch of "enthusiasts" producing an emulator but going out of their way to shut down ROM and piracy discussion for the sake of keeping up the "genuine reasearch and homebrew development" pretense.

Nintendo and other pubs sqaush the rom distributors and leave the emu devs alone because the emu devs keep a low profile and don't openly endorse piracy. Steam opens up a whole world of market impact, wider adoption, and the very useful analytics and insight into what is being played on that "tool for research and homebrew development". Imagine being able to prove with extensive user data that the emulator is being used almost exclusivly for illicit activity. And Valve will give that up in a heartbeat rather than being seen to side with software piracy should a legal case come about. No way are they going to compromise their reputation and business (selling software via a digital storefront with assurances of anti-piracy protection) for the sake of a tool that is primarily used to circumvent IP.

 

[xpresstuning]

Nothing says, "I have nothing meaningful to add, but need to feel involved" like driveby shitposts. Are we on 4chan?

Well, if i can chime in here, i must say your opinion rests on a lot of "what if" scenarios and your condescending, defensive attitude towards opinions that don't line up with yours doesn't help either. I genuinely mean no offense at all! Your posts are awesome, healthy and worth reading. But it is what it is, what the fuck can i say?

So, i've been dabbling with emulation since the late 90s. I've heard it all. They've been popular, as in massively used by everyone since forever. I get that they'd be more wide open with their presence on Steam, but - and here's my take - nothing will happen. Nothing. Will. Happen. Even if they're existence would be fucking commercialized on the Super Bowl time for 100 years, won't change their availability, prosperity and legal status.

 

[OverHeat]

Give me a switch emulator and I will be the happiest person ever!

 

[SeraphJan]

As long as it does not contain BIO files (which it definitely won't), its safe, Nintendo can't do anything about it

 

[Holammer]

A lot of wailing and gnashing of teeth in this thread.
Gabe talked about this particular topic in a recent interview (timestamp)




Well, it's obviously AI made, but I had good laugh the last bit about not having bought the game.

 

[zcaa0g]

Nothing says, "I have nothing meaningful to add, but need to feel involved" like driveby shitposts. Are we on 4chan?

You reinforced my point.

 

[tr1p1ex]

Cigarettes are legal but some stores don't sell them because they don't want the association.

 

[pennythoughts]

The community features and increased visibility would be nice.

 

[gradient]

Well, if i can chime in here, i must say your opinion rests on a lot of "what if" scenarios and your condescending, defensive attitude towards opinions that don't line up with yours doesn't help either. I genuinely mean no offense at all! Your posts are awesome, healthy and worth reading. But it is what it is, what the fuck can i say?

So, i've been dabbling with emulation since the late 90s. I've heard it all. They've been popular, as in massively used by everyone since forever. I get that they'd be more wide open with their presence on Steam, but - and here's my take - nothing will happen. Nothing. Will. Happen. Even if they're existence would be fucking commercialized on the Super Bowl time for 100 years, won't change their availability, prosperity and legal status.

Well, thank you at least for joining the discussion and engaging in some input from experience.

All of this is "what if" because it's a very tenuous legal space which, contrary to the misunderstanding of the legalities that a lot of people hold, is anything but a done deal and safe. That said, it's not all "what if", if taken from actual examples from the past. We have seen emulators get taken down, and it doesn't take a legal win to do it. There is a precedent for going after them when they threaten the commercial space and the rulings on which emulators are considered legal came well before now and the changes to digital copyright and software laws around the world. Hell, they don't even need to make emulators illegal, they can just go for forcing devs to implement piracy counter-measures as a legal compromise - something which would be very easy to argue if the party challenging should have enough data to show widespread misuse of the tools. It's not an all or nothing - the field is wide open and anything is on the table, particularily with a userbase that is so thoughtless as to slef-report their activity via a very intrusive service like Steam.

In terms of attitude, I'm pulling it back a lot from what it would be easy to slip into because it is a discussion with merit, but there is an abundance of shit talkers from the "it's FUD, it's FUD!!" to the false equivalence of "if a publisher emulates their own games for resale then that the same thing", to the simple driveby shitposts. I'll try to maintain the discussion, but if people are going to argue in bad faith or just shitpost and try to shut down discussion like that then I'm not going to pander to their feelings. You can make of that tone as you wish, but if they're going to behave that way then there's only so much you can do to keep the discussion on track.

 

[gradient]

You reinforced my point.

Ah, so you're going for shitposting and the thread derail. Are you from 4chan? do you spend a lot of time there?

 

[lukilladog]

Retroarch has been on steam for over a decade - this isn't the first emulator to show up there. There's nothing anybody can do about emulation, it's legal.

Retroarch is just an application to use emulators.

 

[Barakov]

From that twitter thread

Personal Computers are truly magical.

 

[lukilladog]

 

[Kenpachii]

meanwhile on my steam deck.

 

[Kenpachii]

I could be wrong here but to my understanding a lot of the first party switch games don't even run well on the steam deck. Its not like this will allow you to play Zelda TOTK at 4k/60 FPS day one.

The switch especially the OLED (if you care about handheld mode) will still be the best place to play those games.

Deck runs zelda botw better with better visual settings then the switch.

 

[KormaChameleon]

I can just picture Nintendo loosing their shit over something that they cannot legally do.l

 

[Juza]

We heard you! Announcing Steam Achievements for Dolphin (April 1st )

 

[SHA]

Now , do the magic part and solve the wii motion problem on pc, it's necessary.

 

[Drizzlehell]

Yeah, sure. Nintendo would nuke them from orbit and Steam would be caught in the nuclear fallout if they did this.

But I appreciate seeing the first decent April Fools joke today.

 

[Larxia]

meanwhile on my steam deck.

1201 notifcations on steam? wtf

 

[Kenpachii]

1201 notifcations on steam? wtf

never even noticed them

 

[CleverCaviar]

Now , do the magic part and solve the wii motion problem on pc, it's necessary.

what problem is that?

 

[SHA]

what problem is that?

Not working out of the box.

 

[Come On Tars]

As someone with a Steam Deck and my main emulation machine I would be more excited if EMUDECK wasn't so good

 

[CleverCaviar]

Not working out of the box.

OK. I'm now going to look and sound even more inept: is Wii Motion the Wii Tennis thing? or is that when you had to have the additional attachment to your WiiMote? I haven't set it up in a while, but I used to have a Mayflash "Dolphinbar" sat atop my monitor and it worked fine, but the other stuff (with the attachment) was always kind of haphazard.

Sorry if this is just incoherent ramblings...

 

[SHA]

OK. I'm now going to look and sound even more inept: is Wii Motion the Wii Tennis thing? or is that when you had to have the additional attachment to your WiiMote? I haven't set it up in a while, but I used to have a Mayflash "Dolphinbar" sat atop my monitor and it worked fine, but the other stuff (with the attachment) was always kind of haphazard.

Sorry if this is just incoherent ramblings...

Yeah, no problem , the wii mote.

 

[Impotaku]

I see this as a win for nintendo as to get hold of the games you need to buy & hack a switch console as it's the only way to rip the roms from the carts. so that's one extra console sold plus a copy of the cart.

Because people on here pretending thats what they did & didn't just goto a rom torrent & download it lol.

 

[Come On Tars]

meanwhile on my steam deck.

Do you play the Cemu version or Yuzu.

 

[Kenpachii]

Do you play the Cemu version or Yuzu.

Cemu

 

[Sophist]

Emulation is legal now. But for how long are they going to let us enjoy this privilege? Laws can change.

This is why i don't agree with this move. I prefer homebrew emulators to stay away from anything official. Something like this can bring a lot of attention and you don't want to challenge companies like Nintendo. Dolphin works perfectly as is, without STEAM. I don't think whatever extras STEAM brings worth the risk. I mean, it's just the ability to launch it through STEAM, nothing more.

updates being handled by steam. your settings (and savestates) may also be stored in the steam cloud which could be useful for people who want to switch between windows/linux or pc/steamdeck

 

[CleverCaviar]

Yeah, no problem , the wii mote.

OK, if so, that (with the mayflash bar) always worked fine. Well, as fine as those IR bars ever did. What issues are you seeing?

 

[Kenpachii]

I see this as a win for nintendo as to get hold of the games you need to buy & hack a switch console as it's the only way to rip the roms from the carts. so that's one extra console sold plus a copy of the cart.

Because people on here pretending thats what they did & didn't just goto a rom torrent & download it lol.

Nobody cares.

 

[Impotaku]

Nobody cares.

you obviously did, to post a reply

 

[Roni]

I know it's not illegal and I don't think emulators are a bad thing, but I just don't think it's a good look.
Imagine if the PlayStation or Xbox marketplaces started allowing Dolphin or epsxe to be on their stores.

Sony should host ePSXe and the PSP emulators on their store and charge for BIOS flashes and ROM data. It's money left on the table for them since they don't want to sink any significant money making it happen themselves.

 

[SHA]

OK, if so, that (with the mayflash bar) always worked fine. Well, as fine as those IR bars ever did. What issues are you seeing?

I'm sorry for the miss reading, mayflash bar solves the problem, my point is if the emulator is just an icon then I don't even know where the official support comes from, convenient devices should be an afterthought, not mandatory with steam cause it has already been a multi use platform, I could grab any icon from any software installed and drop it into the library ,there's no need for announcing official support cause it sounds stupid.

 

[Silver Wattle]

I see this as a win for nintendo as to get hold of the games you need to buy & hack a switch console as it's the only way to rip the roms from the carts. so that's one extra console sold plus a copy of the cart.

Because people on here pretending thats what they did & didn't just goto a rom torrent & download it lol.

Poor indie company Nintendo can't catch a break.

 

[Alexios]

Finally resigned to the fact there's never going to be a non DYI cheap yet good lightgun since Sinden is so costly (seriously, how was a Wii remote only 39.99 in 2006 but now because they've added a handgun grip, shifted the controls around and maybe made the camera better to track a screen border instead of IR lights - though the remote's had good specs like 200 Hz - it has to cost like 3x or 4x with rumble? I get economy of scale but they didn't know Wii was going to be so successful before pricing it with a profit margin that was probably already generous to Nintendo itself for accessories like extra controllers), or much effort for VR lightgun games outside EmuVR (and rare games like Pistol Whip or Dead Second), so I dug out my Wii remotes and Dolphinbar and set it up with Dolphin to at least enjoy the shooters that don't rely on accuracy and have on-screen crosshair even in the arcades. I'm getting a Wii Zapper soon so that should make them a bit more fun too. Stuff like L.A. Machineguns and such, but I'll probably also play the games meant to be real lightgun games like Ghost Squad and The House of the Dead 2 & 3 in the same way in this and other emulators if I can get Wiimotes working, with crosshair on and the zapper for SMG hip firing instead of my old pistol-like Sega Handcannon shell or trying to actually aim since the Wii remotes aren't nearly accurate enough for that (outside using your missed or on target shot effects as a crosshair guide). I guess I'll also replay some more Wii games like SMGalaxy, MPTrilogy and the Prince of Persia game. I've been using Dolphin anyway but only for GameCube and Classic Controller Wii games using my DS4 while the Wii remotes went to forgotten storage mode.
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