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Donkey Kong Country Returns announced [N-CONF]

Cygnus X-1 said:
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Ahà. NOW I understand. The objective is to outdone Rare. Without Wise or Kirkhope, I doubt it will be possible.
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Well, I'm not sure. From what I could tell, so far it looks like it could very easily outdo the first 3 DKC games..in terms of variety of gameplay and fun.

I'll agree with you on Wise though.
 
TheGreatMightyPoo said:
Why the hell would they use the same exact music???

It's a new game.

Just as the graphics are faithful to the older games but still different, the music will likely follow suit.
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I'm sure he meant original compositions, not the original snes music.
 
IGN: On a technical level, a lot of people look at the original Super Nintendo version and see all that pre-rendered stuff. And I guess you had to match that on the Wii. But as the games progressed on the SNES, they were able to take advantage of more technology to render fur textures and things like that. What, in the Wii version, were you able to do on a technical level? Could you match what Rare did, pre-render-wise? In real time, could you mirror closely to what Rare achieved through pre-rendering on the Super Nintendo?

Retro: I don't think we tried. I think we're very competent art-wise, so I don't think we ever looked back and said "Well, Rare did this, so we better do this." Artistically, we were more concerned about animation -- and meeting Mr. Miyamoto's expectation in regards to animation. We never really took art and applied it to what had been done in the past. That whole ACM rendering technology was such a departure and such a refreshing thing to see at the time, I just don't think that today -- that we know of -- such a huge departure from DKC exists that we could apply to DKCR right now. So we didn't make any comparisons. We're very confident in our art team, and we think they did a good job.

If you haven't yet watched the attract loop, I recommend you do. Because there's some unique things in it that you won't be able to play, but you might enjoy.
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It's DEFINITELY a Retro vs. Rare battle.

IGN: So it's just been constant work up to this point?

Retro: Yeah, from an engineering standpoint we had to take about six months at least of saying we're not going to do anything but re-tool, because we can't work in this environment. Even though that sounds like a long time, when you're talking about a new engine and new animation and everything else we've had to do, we've been able to create a lot of content in a short amount of time. So it's taken a lot of effort. Not to mention the fact that you have an art team that's been working in a genre that defines sci-fi, high quality in every little pixel, and we have to re-train them to make a DKC style game. And that took a little time too. Some of the first prototype artwork stuff was like, "This palm tree looks like a Metroid palm tree." (laughs)
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:lol :lol
 
As much as I agree on Wise being one of the best composers in this industry and the DKC soundtrack is one of the very best, undermining Nintendo's attention to soundtrack is a bad idea.

The game will have glorious music. I'd have loved to see Wise being on the team, but I'm not worried.
 
I'll be honest, if what they're doing is taking Wise's DKC scores and elaborating on them, I won't mind at all. I'd love him to compose new music as much as the next guy, but hearing his classics while playing the new game doesn't sound one bit terrible.
 
IGN: People looking in from the outside are seeing that you guys are a versatile team, but your last three projects (or four, if you count the compilation) have been first-person shooters. People are going to look in and say, "Can they do a side-scrolling platformer?" What was the difference between the two. Can you go from one to the other?

Retro: I think that we're getting that question a lot. And, really, a good developer makes a fun game. To lock any developer into a genre is, I don't know . . . our goal is to make fun Nintendo games. Very high quality. And whether it's a first-person shooter or an RPG, we welcome any of those challenges. So I get a kick out of reading all these posts that say, "Oh, it's gotta be this FPS DKC." It makes me laugh -- because they've really pigeon-holed Retro as making exclusively FPS-style games. Right? And I think that if you were to apply that principle to EAD or any of Nintendo's other Japanese developers that would be a huge mistake. Because they go from Mario, to Zelda, to Kirby -- so to apply that kind of formula to a Western developer, well, it's just odd for me to think that. Because it's a change of genre to us, but it's challenging in the sense that our goal is the same. Our goal is to make a fun, great Nintendo game. And I think that a good developer should be able to make that transition.
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Oh, we know Michael: "Retro IS Nintendo".
 
TheGreatMightyPoo said:
For yourself and the media, maybe.
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Well, I just look at facts. In ther interview, Miyamoto explicitly asked to outdone every DKC made by Rare. It's a challenge.

IGN: But you're confident you'll know?

Retro: We will make this date. We're at the stage where just last Friday we started development of the last level of the game. And we have months of polish ahead. We're at the stage where most developers would say the game's 90% done. When all the assets are complete, that's when, in Nintendo's eyes, the game is just half done. (laughs)

Yeah, when we say we're in the final stages -- right now, we have a bucket full of nuts. So we've built the components of the game, but it's far from being polished.

IGN: I never liked percentages anyway.

Retro: The tools are there, and we're almost done making the contents of the game, but we're miles away from it being Nintendo quality right now. Well, actually, we're months away. (laughs)
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Well, nice interview. Not concerned at all if not for the soundtrack.
 
Cygnus X-1 said:
Well, I just look at facts. In ther interview, Miyamoto explicitly asked to outdone every DKC made by Rare. It's a challenge.
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You are making it out to be a battle of names though, it's more like a battle of games or "make this the best game in the series", nothing personal.

Why wouldn't Miyamoto want them to make it better than the other games???
 
Cygnus X-1 said:
Well, nice interview. Not concerned at all if not for the soundtrack.
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David Wise is awesome, but it's also not like Ninty has some random hack on the game. It's Kenji Yamamoto. The music will be great, period...
 
TheGreatMightyPoo said:
You are making it out to be a battle of names though, it's more like a battle of games or "make this the best game in the series", nothing personal.

Why wouldn't Miyamoto want them to make it better than the other games???
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Probably because I remember very well what Miyamoto said back in 1994 when Rare shipped Donkey Kong Country. You probably don't.
 
Cygnus X-1 said:
$

Ahà. NOW I understand. The objective is to outdone Rare. Without Wise or Kirkhope, I doubt it will be possible.
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Kirkhope didnt have much to do the DK games, and his contributions to the franchise musically were the weakest :\
 
I know he said about DKC back in the day but I don't think he meant it like that. It's just like when someone from Nintendo said that Twilight Princess was going to be better than OoT. Developers are always "outdoing" their old games.
 
Yeah, wasn't Miyamoto peeved that DKC outsold Yoshi's Island or something like that? I recall him saying something to the effect of "gamers these days only care about graphics".

I don't know if he'd still carry that on his shoulder, though. But you never know.
 
He might have something against someone else's Donkey Kong compared to his Mario but he sure never had anything against Rare, he was rather impressed with Dream(Banjo Kazooie) when it was new.
 
TheGreatMightyPoo said:
For yourself and the media, maybe.
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Not really, it makes sense that Retro itself sees it as a challenge against Rare. And why not? Unlike Kirby or Mario and even Metroid, the Donkey Kong from the Country universe is entirely rooted in Rare and has been untouched since the studio was sold off. They know that they'll be straight-up compared to DKC 1/2/3 plus a big shovelful of nostalgia, which will make it even more challenging. It's pretty much a pitched battle between their talent and Rare's. That's why this game is extremely interesting to me, I can't wait to see how and what they'll do to surpass Rare.
 
Didn't Miyamoto notoriously hate DKC? Or at least the graphics?

I find it somewhat ironic that he pushed so hard to make this new DK game a callback/homage/sequel to the DKC series. (Assuming the graphics-hate isn't just some weird-dumb internet rumor I read once.)
 
Vhalyar said:
Not really, it makes sense that Retro itself sees it as a challenge against Rare. And why not? Unlike Kirby or Mario and even Metroid, the Donkey Kong from the Country universe is entirely rooted in Rare and has been untouched since the studio was sold off. They know that they'll be straight-up compared to DKC 1/2/3 plus a big shovelful of nostalgia, which will make it even more challenging. It's pretty much a pitched battle between their talent and Rare's.
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Just going by what THEY themselves are expressing.

I am sure they have the utmost respect for what Rare did and of course they are going to try to top them.

If they are thinking inside "let's kick Rare's ass", good for them, it will lead to great game design, etc...
 
Oh, I'm positive you'll be able to swap between Donkey and Diddy, just like in the DKC games. It'd be completely foolish to not utilize that option since it opens a lot of gameplay opportunities (e.g., throwing the player, different strengths).

My biggest concern is: secret barrels?? This is what made DKC such a replayable and memorable series for me. I'd love to replay the levels and explore when I realized there were still secrets to be found. Some of the hidden barrels were extremely rewarding. You really needed to think outside the box and also gamble (I don't know how many times I dropped down a hole to my death hoping there was a barrel tucked away to save me). Fully completing different worlds was always great, especially when it unlocked new levels and other things.

And it's not a "Retro vs. Rare battle". That's a pretty silly way to term the development of a game. A battle suggests that Rare can hit back, for one. The fact that they're handling another developer's franchise will motivate them for sure, but that's all.
 
Twig said:
Didn't Miyamoto notoriously hate DKC? Or at least the graphics?

I find it somewhat ironic that he pushed so hard to make this new DK game a callback/homage/sequel to the DKC series. (Assuming the graphics-hate isn't just some weird-dumb internet rumor I read once.)
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I don't know if he truly hated those games or parts of them but he's no dummy and he realized they had a cult + following as evidenced by many in this thread and elsewhere and they want to sell games.
 
Twig said:
Didn't Miyamoto notoriously hate DKC? Or at least the graphics?

I find it somewhat ironic that he pushed so hard to make this new DK game a callback/homage/sequel to the DKC series. (Assuming the graphics-hate isn't just some weird-dumb internet rumor I read once.)
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I think he just wanted a new DK game, and Retro themselves decided to go the Country route.

And it's not like he hated it, but it was fairly simple comparing it to Yoshi Island. Not that's a bad thing. Even we all agree that Country 1 is solid but it wasn't until DKC2 that they outdid themselves.
 
Rare was such a factory back in the 8-bit and 16-bit era...they were responsible for a good 8 or 9% of the North American NES library all on their own. A good portion of those games were pretty good, too.
 
TheGreatMightyPoo said:
I don't know if he truly hated those games or parts of them but he's no dummy and he realized they had a cult + following as evidenced by many in this thread and elsewhere and they want to sell games.
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Yeah, yeah, I understand all that. It doesn't make the situation any less amusing.
Boney said:
I think he just wanted a new DK game, and Retro themselves decided to go the Country route.
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Didn't one of the interviews say Miyamoto asked specifically for a DKC sequel?
And it's not like he hated it, but it was fairly simple comparing it to Yoshi Island. Not that's a bad thing. Even we all agree that Country 1 is solid but it wasn't until DKC2 that they outdid themselves.
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Yoshi's Island... I think that specifically was the game being compared. Someone had asked why YI didn't have graphics like DKC, and was told DKC was ugly. Or something.

Actually, thinking about it more, maybe it was Yamauchi. Or maybe I'm just making it up altogether. I probably am! Oh well. EDIT: Okay cool someone else remembers the YI connection. I feel less crazy.

ps this retro vs rare thing is fucking stupid you dill weeds need to grow up
 
Boney said:
I think he just wanted a new DK game, and Retro themselves decided to go the Country route.

And it's not like he hated it, but it was fairly simple comparing it to Yoshi Island. Not that's a bad thing. Even we all agree that Country 1 is solid but it wasn't until DKC2 that they outdid themselves.
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No, the plan was always to be 2.5D according to all these interviews.

Also, i love the idea of a developer going from a FPA to a side scroller. Very few western devs ever really diversify. All i can think of is vicarious visions which makes many different types of games, but even that doesnt really count i guess seeing as they have multiple teams and retro has one.
 
Akai said:
David Wise is awesome, but it's also not like Ninty has some random hack on the game. It's Kenji Yamamoto. The music will be great, period...
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Really? I didn't know they assigned Yamamoto. This will be better than great. A kind of reinventing the wheel for the series. Yamamoto could add just as much atmosphere as a Wise or Kirkhope.
 
Miyamoto said:
[Laughs] We had been looking at the Donkey Kong franchise and thought Retro was a studio that would be really well suited to creating something in that style, particularly with their graphic capabilities and what they can do there. Of course, my team worked on Donkey Kong Jungle Beat, but with the Tokyo studio busy with the Mario Galaxy game, we were looking for someone who could take the Donkey Kong franchise and do something with it. Once we proposed the idea to them and they started looking at it, they wanted to do something similar to the Donkey Kong Country series and it came together relatively quickly.
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Not that it matters really.
 
Its probably already been said here, but now their is NO EXCUSE for Retro not making a 2.5 Metroid game in the future. :lol Love to see them turn around and make one for the 3DS.
 
pakkit said:
I would've thought that GAF would have learned not to doubt Retro, yet there's a fair amount of cynicism here.
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Actually, I learned to doubt Retro, but I'm pleasantly surprised by everything I've seen or read about DKCR.
 
msdstc said:
What the hell? Why wouldn't he be playable? That makes no sense :(.
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Because the game doesn't use the tag mechanic. That doesn't mean he's completely passive, you can still use the jet and fire peanuts, use him to roll on Dokey and probably other stuff.
 
I hope the levels aren't just light-hearted fun stuff. There were some levels, particularly near the end of each DKC game where things got moody, though Wise's composing obviously helped.
 
msdstc said:
What the hell? Why wouldn't he be playable? That makes no sense :(.
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If you watch the Iwata Asks on the game, they wanted to get rid of the "tag team" design of the original series...

Edit: Beaten by a whole minute... =(
 
msdstc said:
What the hell? Why wouldn't he be playable? That makes no sense :(.
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Is Toad playable in New Super Mario Brothers Wii in single player????

GOT YA!!!!!!!!:P

It's not that he's not playable in single player, it's just that no one seems to have seen him being the first player or in one player mode.
 
Kinda disappointed that Wise isn't on board after all, but apparently the music's in very good hands anyway! :D

But did anyone else think of Pinata when seeing those big frog like things that DK and Diddy fight in that arena? They even have that "Rare" goofiness (especially when they die). Glorious! :D

In particular, they look like Cocoadiles, hell the Frogs remind me of Lickitoads:

2res94x.jpg


1lrur.jpg
 
Hero of Legend said:
But did anyone else think of Pinata when seeing those big frog like things that DK and Diddy fight in that arena? They even have that "Rare" goofiness (especially when they die). Glorious! :D

In particular, they look like Cocoadiles, hell the Frogs remind me of Lickitoads:

http://i45.tinypic.com/2res94x.jpg

http://i49.tinypic.com/1lrur.jpg
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I didn't. They just reminded me of Jungle Beat. I guess some similarities would makes sense because of the Rare connection though. The style of their cartoony characters hasn't varied much since the SNES days, which is where Retro is getting their inspiration for this game.
 
Gahiggidy said:
Its probably already been said here, but now their is NO EXCUSE for Retro not making a 2.5 Metroid game in the future. :lol Love to see them turn around and make one for the 3DS.
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That'd be great. Only problem is that we wouldn't get it for another ~3 years.

Which would be fine if EAD/Shikamura(?) Ninja is right and Nintendo is currently working on a 2D Metroid.
 
Gahiggidy said:
Its probably already been said here, but now their is NO EXCUSE for Retro not making a 2.5 Metroid game in the future. :lol Love to see them turn around and make one for the 3DS.
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Never thought of that :O
 
There is a chance that David Wise is also working on the soundtrack. They said that they have had no contact with Rare but David Wise is not a Rare employee anymore.

Also the game has been in development since April 2008, long before Wise left Rare. Nintendo would've had no idea that Wise was planning on leaving and decided to get Kenji Yamamoto to compose, given his relationship with Retro and his knack for composing atmospheric music. Circumstances have changed since then and they may have recently got Wise on board to compose additional tracks since his departure.

Given that Nintendo clearly appreciate how important the sound track is to DKC fans, having Wise brought on board would be the kind of thing that they would want to keep a secret up until the last moment.
 
http://www.joystiq.com/2010/06/16/interview-nintendos-shigeru-miyamoto-on-3ds-retro-zelda-and/ said:
It looks similar to the old Donkey Kong games. Did you guys experiment with any different types of gameplay, like a Donkey Kong first-person game?

[Laughs] We had been looking at the Donkey Kong franchise and thought Retro was a studio that would be really well suited to creating something in that style, particularly with their graphic capabilities and what they can do there. Of course, my team worked on Donkey Kong Jungle Beat, but with the Tokyo studio busy with the Mario Galaxy game, we were looking for someone who could take the Donkey Kong franchise and do something with it. Once we proposed the idea to them and they started looking at it, they wanted to do something similar to the Donkey Kong Country series and it came together relatively quickly.
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Looks like the DKC idea is all Retro. I love these guys. Even Nintendo thought they'll go for a first-person thing.
 
upandaway said:
Looks like the DKC idea is all Retro. I love these guys. Even Nintendo thought they'll go for a first-person thing.
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definitely feel the same way. passion for a project is so important in making it something special. i wouldn't have minded seeing what a first person donkey kong would be like, but i'd much prefer a team to make exactly what they know they want to make. that game will always be better than the half-baked product of marching orders from above.
 
Hero of Legend said:
But did anyone else think of Pinata when seeing those big frog like things that DK and Diddy fight in that arena? They even have that "Rare" goofiness (especially when they die). Glorious! :D

In particular, they look like Cocoadiles, hell the Frogs remind me of Lickitoads...
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Why didn't you play Jungle Beat? The real one with the bongos.
 
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