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[Thunder Monkey]

Their development history is sad though. They were supposed to be The Western Studio since NST and ...I'm sure there's one other one, weren't up to the task, but they had to cancel everything else they were working on to make sure Metroid Prime wouldn't be terrible, and they've never recovered. I mean, it looks like they're going to be averaging 2 games a generation.

I don't disagree with their difficult development history, they've had an... interesting set of development cycles. I just think the end result of those troubles ended up being one of the best games I've ever had the chance to play.:lol

The less said about water levels, the better.

I'm completely there with you.

And then their idea of designing a platformer was making it a straight line with obstacles. At least, that's what I get from the Iwata Asks where that guy said he had to supervise the level design because it was too simplistic.

I just watched it again because I honestly couldn't remember him saying that, and he didn't.

His words were "It was like they were trying to make every level a speedrun, and I had to remind them that some game players may need a few seconds to judge their next moves. Of course Retro thinks about casual players as well, but they are hardcore players at heart, and it showed."

 

[Celine]

Retro studios did a great job with Metroid Prime but it has been nothing but downhill since sadly I dont see this game as a turn around for the studio. Everything they shown about this game so far is a complete disgrace to the DKC series from gameplay to level design.

DKC is my favourite platofrming series of all time and it deserves better than this abomination.

Sir, I disagree ( except that Prime 1 is still the high point of Retro Studios )
DKCR looks fantastic.

 

[MYE]

You know, it's all good if you don't like certain changes but talking about while using the terms "disgracefull" sounds like overreacting to me. In this kind of context it sounds if Nintendo is pulling of some crime against humanity.

Seriously :lol

This is so damn funny

 

[web01]

Web01, I am a fan of Donkey Kong Country since 94', and I feel disgraced to know you feel the same way. What moronic comments, oh my god. This mentality is exactly what is wrong with gaming today.

Exactly.And they don't even make sense.Replacing both characters in DKC 3 is absolutely ok and enhances the gameplay,but replacing the boss isn't and is "disgraceful".:lol

You should read what I wrote again instead or trying to debunk my arguments by simplifying them into one sentence statements. And general remarks that my opinion is moronic are even worse, prove me wrong if you think you can... sometimes the truth hurts I guess people like you need to make personal attacks when they dont like what they are hearing...

I hate repeating the point I am trying to make but is it really that hard to understand? There is nothing wrong with change but at a certain point you cross the line when one of these things is not like the other... obviously everyone is going to have a different opinion on what this line is. When you look at some of key elements being changed or completely discarded with DKC returns I believe this line has been crossed.

This would not be a problem at all if Nintendo owned up and marketed this as a reboot / spin off or whatever you want to call it.

But when you hype a game as Donkey Kong Country Returns there are certain expectations you are creating amongst the consumer and certain gamers you are marketing towards. If the game is not designed with those fans in mind then simply dont call it Donkey Kong Returns and market it towards a newer younger audience.

The fact that this developer is ommiting key elements that define the series simply because they cant get them working right is very worrying. Especially considering they have a perfectly fine basis to work from already. Making excuses like this then putting development resources into gimmicks like animated backgrounds that ultimately have little impact on gameplay is not impressive at all.

As for the DKC series at their best all three had amazing level design that was both fun and challenging.

 

[V_Arnold]

Web01, your problem is that you are eager to jump on a hate train on basic instincts, without anything to back up your statements.

- Too much detail in the background? Spend that money on more levels/much complicated levels? Are you high? Do you know how game development goes? First, you do not know and should not be interested in the budget of the team, second, there are totally different people involved with creating moving and interesting background elements and designing game levels. Not the same type of work, therefore no interference. So sit down and take a deep breath.

- Same goes to some music arguments. First reveal already showed we are gonna get back some classics - again, the game did not hit retail yet, so there is no way of knowing which way the river is flowing - ah, wrong sentence. So, speak once you completed the full game, before that, stop predicting and hallucinating design problems.

About the enemies: I loved the crocodile theme. Crocs can be a natural danger to a lot of monkey species, so it was a nice touch, but I am (and judging by the thread's few other replies, others too) fine with new enemies. After all, the bosses in DKC2 (the best episode) had totally random animal bosses after each world, so for this game, it is okay to have its OWN themes and its own enemies/bosses along with it.

About the name complaints: seriously, this is the most annoying thing. They have the right to call it whatever they want, and if they would release this as Donkey Bro: Blast some Barrels and have a Five while High, your only option would be to vote with your wallet. So far, Donkey Kong Country Returns showed that Donkey Kong and Diddy is back, that the musical styles (at least some of it) will be back, the sidescrolling will be back - obviously, these are the core concepts behind the original DKC aswell. Donkey and friends, 2d platforming (not racing, not barrels vs mario, not anything else), speedy gameplay, and classic musics reintroduced/referenced upon.

Jungle Beat was also awesome, but it had a totally different gameplay than those of DKC. They could have named that DKC4, and it would have still been an awesome game. They could have named DKC2 "Dixie Can Fly: What is up with that", and it would be still a classic. With more laughter, maybe, but still, hopefully you get the point.

 

[Datschge]

You know I never called Diddy's Kong Quest DKC2 or Dixie Kong's Double Trouble DKC3 back in the days, the DKC names were nowhere to be seen within the game and the respective logo on the package looked like cheap afterthoughts to me...

Anyway I don't really care about the characters and levels as long as the varied gameplay is there. Water levels (especially in DKC2) and animals (again especially in DKC2) are just some of the ways changes in gameplay variety can be introduced, maybe (hopefully) Retro has its own good ideas in that regards.

 

[Diablohead]

Smells like the Sonic 4 thread in here, wow

 

[mclem]

Thinking back to my own take on DKC through the years, I realised that there's only one key element that truly defined the series for me: Barrel cannons. Not that recurring themes were missed or unappreciated - I always liked the minecart levels and the changes of pace the animal buddies brought in.

Barrel cannons are in DKCR. So I am sated.

 

[Twig]

Some of you deserve to be shot, there is no way you could say the DKC series had bad character and enemy design.

 

[Sill4]

So much arrogance in here. Is this what happens when gamer kids grow up?

 

[DieNgamers]

The Kongs are way cooler than any animal game characters except conker! I should play some DK64 now <3!

 

[web01]

better than a bald space marine, and your avatar really undermines your post...

 

[V_Arnold]

better than a bald space marine, and your avatar really undermines your post...

Talking about going personal, eh?

 

[Twig]

better than a bald space marine, and your avatar really undermines your post...

wrong on both counts

but that's okay! you're allowed to be wrong, as long as you learn from your mistakes

 

[ShockingAlberto]

But none of that explains why Kremlings don't need to be in DKCR besides your own personal feelings about their character designs.

I have more than personal feelings. I have collective nostalgia!

I never said they don't need to be. The fact is that they're not and between the two of us, I'm the only one not really chuffed about it.

 

[Haunted]

I haven't seen those Tiki guys in much detail, but that one boss enemy we've seen in gameplay certainly holds up well, design-wise.

I mean, do you guys even remember some of the bosses from the first DKC? They simply were bigger versions of normal enemies, a big mouse, a big wasp etc.

 

[flintstryker]

I can't believe people are actually angry over the absence of water levels, i don't think i know anyone who liked them from any game ever, at best they are just tolerated.

 

[Cow Mengde]

So when I see obvious time and effort which = money into fancy animated backgrounds which have little impact on gameplay I get very very woried.

You do realize you jump into the background in this game, right? Just like Wario Land on Virtual Boy and the upcoming Shantae DS.

 

[Twig]

You do realize you jump into the background in this game, right? Just like Wario Land on Virtual Boy and the upcoming Shantae DS.

man i can't wait for some swank dual/triple-layer 2d platforming to show up mad crazy in 3ds (i mean it's just gotta happen right)

i know it has little impact on actual gameplay but it looks rad and make me feel awesome U:

 

[robor]

You do realize you jump into the background in this game, right? Just like Wario Land on Virtual Boy and the upcoming Shantae DS.

:O WTF!!!!! There's a new Shantae!?.........oh man do I feel like a retard.

 

[Cow Mengde]

Seems like there are secrets and puzzles that you need to solve and discover in the backgrounds and foregrounds.

:O WTF!!!!! There's a new Shantae!?.........oh man do I feel like a retard.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyJlQp-BjYk

 

[daemonic]

As great as the game looks, there's something about it that seems a bit off when compared to the original DKC series. I think it might have to do with the camera being a bit too far zoomed out. Same feeling I had for Jungle Beat... not really an issue though just an observation.

 

[Datschge]

To those stating not liking water level anyway, are you referring only to level completely under water or also those combining land and water sequences (among other variations)? Because the latter (mixed environments with different gameplay) is something I don't want to miss.

 

[StoOgE]

Some of you deserve to be shot, there is no way you could say the DKC series had bad character and enemy design.

King K Rool is an iconic nintendo villian if anything him and the Kremlins define the DKC series more than the Kong characters themselves who have been interchangable throughout the series.

Not having King K Rool / Kremlins as they main enemies is ridiculous, its like Mario without Bowser or Zelda without Ganon.

Retro studios did a great job with Metroid Prime but it has been nothing but downhill since sadly I dont see this game as a turn around for the studio. Everything they shown about this game so far is a complete disgrace to the DKC series from gameplay to level design.

DKC is my favourite platofrming series of all time and it deserves better than this abomination.

people like you are the reason every single Zelda game is exactly the same.

 

[miserable]

So much arrogance in here. Is this what happens when gamer kids grow up?

No, this is what happens in pretty much every thread on GAF.

 

[StoOgE]

Thinking back to my own take on DKC through the years, I realised that there's only one key element that truly defined the series for me: Barrel cannons. Not that recurring themes were missed or unappreciated - I always liked the minecart levels and the changes of pace the animal buddies brought in.

Barrel cannons are in DKCR. So I am sated.

Pretty much. DKC was a pretty mediocre platformer.. there were a ton of other games on the SNES that were every bit as good as DKC when it came to the standard jumping on enemies heads and traversing gaps.

The barrel cannons are the part of the game that stuck out, made it unique and frankly blew the doors off of most other platformers. It gave it a real twitch gameplay quality.

 

[jrricky]

OMG, some of you are taking this way to seriously...its a video game people, I love playing them...but come on...

 

[StoOgE]

OMG, some of you are taking this way to seriously...its a video game people, I love playing them...but come on...

K.RULE IS THE ONLY REASON THE GAME WAS GOOD. THIS IS AN ABOMINARIAIODHADLSKJFHSL~!!!! RARRAGHH.

I'm more concerned that the controls look a bit floaty myself, but I guess to each their own.

 

[Bisnic]

OMG, some of you are taking this way to seriously...its a video game people, I love playing them...but come on...

thisisneogafdude.gif

 

[web01]

people like you are the reason every single Zelda game is exactly the same.

No, blame the people the praise games like Twilight Princess which is an example of nintendo making a clone of a previous zelda game that is inferior on every level from gameplay, story, puzzles, music, enemies, minigames, bosses, secrets, and story.

But that argument is for another thread.

And the Zelda series is clearly presented as individual games and not direct sequels making it irrelevent to this situation.

 

[StoOgE]

And the Zelda series is clearly presented as individual games and not direct sequels making it irrelevent to this situation.

Now you've done it. The timeline kids are going to be in here with charts.

 

[jrricky]

bullshit. The waggling is not precise in Galaxy and there is a delay between the waggle and on-screen movement, like with all other games. Take off the rose tinted glasses.

Err, the 'waggling' spin in Galaxy is what helped my jumps and saved me multiple times because of how precise it was.

 

[Cipherr]

Err, the 'waggling' spin in Galaxy is what helped my jumps and saved me multiple times because of how precise it was.

Hell its damn near cheesy. Amazing how much it can save you. No clue what he is talking about.

 

[cartman414]

Now you've done it. The timeline kids are going to be in here with charts.

Haha. There was a guy right behind me in the line for the Legend of Neil panel at Comic-con last weekend presenting his theory on the Zelda timeline.

 

[flak57]

Pretty much. DKC was a pretty mediocre platformer.. there were a ton of other games on the SNES that were every bit as good as DKC when it came to the standard jumping on enemies heads and traversing gaps.

The barrel cannons are the part of the game that stuck out, made it unique and frankly blew the doors off of most other platformers. It gave it a real twitch gameplay quality.

You make it sound as if DKC consists of "standard jumping on enemies and traversing gaps" outside of barrels.

 

[vareon]

And the Zelda series is clearly presented as individual games and not direct sequels making it irrelevent to this situation.

Eh? It doesn't have numbers, sure, but there's no reason it's not a direct sequel other than not having a clear storyline correlation. Each game is an improvement of its previous iteration's formula, though whether the improvements worked or not is of course a hit or miss.

Unless your definition of a direct sequel includes a clear storyline correlation, of course. I personally think that's not part of what makes a sequel.

 

[curls]

The lack of kremlins is diabolical. How can they get away with this?

 

[jrricky]

Hell its damn near cheesy. Amazing how much it can save you. No clue what he is talking about.

When in doubt of dying, 'waggle'...

 

[Lijik]

Err, the 'waggling' spin in Galaxy is what helped my jumps and saved me multiple times because of how precise it was.

Same here, but I also have a friend who frequently complained about lag.
Maybe Mario Galaxy just hates some people

 

[Boney]

Stopped reading the thread at this moment, and just wanna comment on this.

I liked Jungle Kong Jungle Beat is was a fun diversion and Nintendo did not try to pretend it was something else. Sad they are not taking the same approach with this and making it a spin off series or giving it a new title to reflect that is is simply not a DKC game.

...

Are you for real?

 

[KevinCow]

I don't think you can really compare the lack of Kremlings in this to the lack of Ganon in a Zelda game or Bowser in a Mario game. Those games have enough entries and get them often enough that the occasional game without the primary antagonists isn't that weird - in fact, it's quite welcome. But imagine if there was a 14 year gap between games, and they suddenly decided to bring it back. Then it would be kinda weird to not have Ganon and Bowser as the antagonists, not to mention if they also replaced the typical Goombas, Moblins, Koopas, Octorocks, and such with some brand new mooks.

I don't think it's a huge deal. I can live with it, and I'll probably even grow to like the new enemies once I actually play the game. It's just... odd.

 

[Twig]

...

Are you for real?

Of course he is. Jungle Kong is inferior to Candy Kong in every way.

 

[Boney]

I haven't seen those Tiki guys in much detail, but that one boss enemy we've seen in gameplay certainly holds up well, design-wise.

I mean, do you guys even remember some of the bosses from the first DKC? They simply were bigger versions of normal enemies, a big mouse, a big wasp etc.

Umm.. this is a mouse to you?
I know it's a rodent but :lol

Of course he is. Jungle Kong is inferior to Candy Kong in every way.

:lol

Here's a present for you.

 

[KevinCow]

Umm.. this is a mouse to you?
I know it's a rodent but :lol

That's what rats look like in Germany.

 

[Twig]

Here's a present for you.

UNF UNF look at that hot ass

 

[brandonh83]

No, blame the people the praise games like Twilight Princess which is an example of nintendo making a clone of a previous zelda game that is inferior on every level from gameplay, story, puzzles, music, enemies, minigames, bosses, secrets, and story.

People love great games. We can't help it.

 

[MYE]

Err, the 'waggling' spin in Galaxy is what helped my jumps and saved me multiple times because of how precise it was.

Ignore him

 

[Boney]

Of course he is. Jungle Kong is inferior to Candy Kong in every way.

Seriously though, I you say Jungle Beat is a nice diversion/spin off, you are banned to comment on level design. Especially for a game that's not even out yet.

 

[Kifimbo]

Old ? The game is apparently really hard.

About a year ago, I wrote about my experience playing through an early build of "New Super Mario Bros. Wii." I came away rather shocked and impressed by just how difficult the game was, comparing it to "Contra." Turns out "Donkey Kong Country Returns" is being built with the same mindset, as it's nothing short of punishingly difficult. And tremendously satisfying.

[...]

I asked a Nintendo representative how far into the game this mine cart level would be. He laughed, explaining that it would be one of the first levels in the game. Apparently Retro Studios sent along dozens of sample levels to include in the latest build of the game, and this mine cart level was one Nintendo thought was actually finishable in a press event setting. All the others were even more difficult.

More here: http://multiplayerblog.mtv.com/2010...aign=Feed:+MultiplayerBlog+(Multiplayer+Blog)

 

[StoOgE]

You make it sound as if DKC consists of "standard jumping on enemies and traversing gaps" outside of barrels.

There are a fair number of levels that have limited or no barrel jumping sections. Those sections were not bad, they were just very standard for the genre.

It was the moving barrels, spinning barrel timing jumps where the game really took off. In DKC1 these levels were not all that common until the end of the game. I'm still not to replaying DCK2 yet, but I recall them becoming much more prevelent later in the series.