Support NeoGAF

[Shitty Celebrity Impersonator Claiming To Be Femin]

I really like Returns, so if this one is at least as good as the first, I'll be good.

 

[Garcia]

Weird phenomena. The low scores judge the game apparently for what it's not rather than for what it is.

It's a Retro Studios game. It will undoubtedly be good. It is the only developer that hasn't disappointed me since their first Metroid Prime.

 

[Hazelhurst]

Gamespot, it can't be that bad. Such a harsh score.

I'll judge for myself in a few days.

 

[Arkage]

So this is presentation related and not about gameplay mechanics, level design, puzzle piece placement and things of that nature.

You would play DKC 2 due to its immersion factor, but avoid DKC TF because it's too light hearted.

I have recently understood this fact and why Rayman Legends is considered a better platformer than NSMB U. I can never understand how immersion plays such a huge role in people's taste of games, the fact that a game purchase depends on it.

Without great immersion the game devolves into feeling like a rejiggered reflex test using 20 year old game mechanics. Not everyone's cup of tea.

 

[TheFLYINGManga_Ka]

That's where we differ, I guess, because I think that is fair. I may not agree with the reviewer on what's important, but that doesn't mean he/she is wrong for relying upon his/her own criteria for evaluating something. "Cup holders are too big" may seem like a silly reason to dock a car for, but again I'm free to disregard that review (and reviewer) as not being in line with my tastes.

And I disagree with the premise behind that example, actually. Cars, even luxury ones, are much more utilitarian than games. It has a clear function which defines certain "objective" parameters (speed, fuel efficiency, safety) by which to judge them by. Games aren't like that, at all.

A game could be a perfectly realized example of its particular genre, and a person might still legitimately hate it and have perfectly good reasons for doing so. We should welcome all opinions, even as we grant some more weight than others based on our own opinions and tastes

The car was the best cheesy example I can come up with, Lol!

But back to the GS review, I wrote earlier comparing Game Inforrmer's review with that one and they're quite the polar opposites.

Combining that comparison with Gamespot's reviewer's love for Pupetteer, it's pretty fair to assume the reviewer may have felt DKC Tropical Freeze was really a frustrating and difficult game.

So it's fair to say DKC isn't for everyone, just like people hating Dark Souls. I can understand how difficulty and frustration can result in a unenjoyable experience.

In both cases, it doesn't necessarily mean they're bad games that are poorly designed, which is the point I'm driving home.

 

[freethoughtbubble]

The car was the best cheesy example I can come up with, Lol!

But back to the GS review, I wrote earlier comparing Game Inforrmer's review with that one and they're quite the polar opposites.

Combining that comparison with Gamespot's reviewer's love for Pupetteer, it's pretty fair to assume the reviewer may have felt DKC Tropical Freeze was really a frustrating and difficult game.

So it's fair to say DKC isn't for everyone, just like people hating Dark Souls. I can understand how difficulty and frustration can result in a unenjoyable experience.

In both cases, it doesn't necessarily mean they're bad games that are poorly designed, which is the point I'm driving home.

Yeah, I get that, but my problem is sometimes people seem like they honestly want games to be reviewed like other commodities. "Graphics are good, the sound is inoffensive, and the controls work exactly as promised. Rating: recommended."

Back to the game. Overall the reviews are pointing to Tropical Freeze being a really good, challenging platformer, which is exactly what I'd hoped it to be. What I don't get is all this talk of "cheap" deaths. How are the DKR games "cheap" exactly? They always telegraph their insta kills in really clever ways. And so what if you die a few times? Isn't that, you know, the definition of difficulty in these types of games? I get if it's not your cup of tea, but there's nothing "cheap" about it.

 

[Out of Working Order]

I am going to reconsider my purchase, I think. Honestly, from the very first unveiling trailer last year I've been underwhelmed from what I've seen. It looks and sounds great, but the issue I have is that I feel I've seen it before. The reviews all back that up - whether positive or negative.

I think I am going to watch a couple of full level playthroughs - something from around mid-game, that I haven't seen - and make my decision from there. I risk spoiling some mid-game surprises, but I guess I'll have to if I want to see some of the new tricks the game's levels offer up.

I passed on Rayman Legends for the same reason. I thoroughly enjoyed Origins - just as I absolutely loved Returns - but I just didn't want to play more. I feel I had my fill with the first title.

 

[Neiteio]

When Cranky Kong takes over Twitter on Thursday, someone should ask him where the heck the original DKC trilogy have gone on the Virtual Console. I downloaded all three, but I want everyone to be able to access them. Taking those off the VC is like a library saying, "Yeah, let's lock away the collective works of Shakespeare."

 

[TheGreatMightyPoo]

When Cranky Kong takes over Twitter on Thursday, someone should ask him where the heck the original DKC trilogy have gone on the Virtual Console. I downloaded all three, but I want everyone to be able to access them. Taking those off the VC is like a library saying, "Yeah, let's lock away the collective works of Shakespeare."

I have them on the second Wii I own and still have yet to transfer them to the Wii U(heard it's a bit cumbersome) but I am keeping that system for Gamecube compatibility anyway.

I replayed them a few years ago and they still hold up well to this day once you scramble your brain to adjust to the graphics.

 

[K' Dash]

I think it's more disingenuous to act like DKCR and TF are just more of the same DKC 1, 2, and 3. The Retro games are so much better than the Rare Donkey Kong games in terms of how they play it's practically a new series.

wow, wow, wow, let's not get exited, Retro's games are amazing, but you don't talk shit about the original trilogy, those games are CLASSICS and still better than 90% of the games publishers shit every year.

 

[AoM]

wow, wow, wow, let's not get exited, Retro's games are amazing, but you don't talk shit about the original trilogy, those games are CLASSICS and still better than 90% of the games publishers shit every year.

How often people constantly shit on the original trilogy makes me wonder if their experience with it is limited to the first few levels while playing on an emulator.

 

[K' Dash]

How often people constantly shit on the original trilogy makes me wonder if their experience with it is limited to the first few levels while playing on an emulator.

Considering how old those games are, I wouldn't be surprised if that's the case, I'm happy I was able to play those amazing games in the SNES with my friends, the good old times.

I still play them once a year, as I do with Super Metroid, Zelda ALTTP and Mario World, they're games with gameplay so TIGHT and get everything SO right, that they don't get old.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

How often people constantly shit on the original trilogy makes me wonder if their experience with it is limited to the first few levels while playing on an emulator.

I really liked them for the time, but I think DKC2 is the only classic among them.

That doesn't mean the others are bad, but they're not in the same tier.

 

[Glorified G]

I have recently understood this fact and why Rayman Legends is considered a better platformer than NSMB U. I can never understand how immersion plays such a huge role in people's taste of games, the fact that a game purchase depends on it.

Rayman Legends being considered better than NSMB U has nothing to do with 'immersion' but more with providing one of the more inventive level designs ever in a platformer while NSMB U makes the CoD yearly iterations revolutionary. You couldn't find a series in gaming more stale than NSMB.

The reviewer scored Puppeteer a 9/10.

That is all.

Wow, I can't believe an individual has a different opinion on a game. Seems you have emotional attachment to a game that is not even released

 

[Christopher]

replaying the DKC's on my Wii this week and Donkey Kong Country 3 is just so "off". I think the Kremlings again missing from one and twos sorta style they had going really made the difference. Still a solid game, and soundtrack even though David Wise didn't do it.

 

[Neiteio]

Rare's DKC trilogy are indeed classics... But they really, really, REALLY need an HD facelift. As it stands, they're the main reason I keep an SDTV handy, since they look terrible on an HDTV.

I do wonder if Nintendo still has the high-res renders available for all of the original trilogy's assets. I saw these floating around the other day -- source images from DKC3 (click to enlarge):

Imagine if they have high-res assets available for all of the backgrounds and characters. They could reconstitute them into HD versions of the originals, could they not?

(Genuine question, I'm not an expert on porting matters)

 

[bequietdrive]

A big co-op gamer, this review swayed me http://www.co-optimus.com/review/1338/page/2/donkey-kong-country-tropical-freeze-co-op-review.html

 

[Bullza2o]

A big co-op gamer, this review swayed me http://www.co-optimus.com/review/1338/page/2/donkey-kong-country-tropical-freeze-co-op-review.html

Wow thanks for the share! Now I'm really going to get this game!

 

[Ansatz]

Without great immersion the game devolves into feeling like a rejiggered reflex test using 20 year old game mechanics. Not everyone's cup of tea.

You can do that with every genre btw.

You bring up the twitch skill aspect, yes that's important too in keeping me engaged. I don't feel like I'm doing something meaningful when I'm platforming in Assassin's for example, it's a lack of stimulation. Some people I observe get off by the cosmetics of it all; you're jumping from rooftop to rooftop in a "cool" manner with shaky cams. But when you break it down it's automatic gameplay and thus boring to me.

I find that it's the puzzle solving element that ultimately grabs me. Think about it, combat in Zelda is about figuring out the/a solution using the mechanics and the game's logic. Things like star coin placement in Mario, or optimizing your Pikmin run to get the best possible time. These are immensely satisfying experiences.

 

[I'M FINISHED!]

EGM: 9.5/10

Cheat Code Central: 4.5/5

 

[ViewtifulJC]

Chris Carter ‏@DtoidChris 8h

Death threats for a Donkey Kong 10/10 review "because it took a new Metroid Prime away from me."
Stay classy, Metroid fans

 

[I'M FINISHED!]

SpazioGames: 8.5/10

 

[Supermanisdead]

Chris Carter ‏@DtoidChris 8h

Death threats for a Donkey Kong 10/10 review "because it took a new Metroid Prime away from me."
Stay classy, Metroid fans

satch wat r u doing

 

[DICKS AHOY]

EGM: 9.5/10

Thinking of what could have happened to Enguarde, Expresso, and the rest of DK’s SNES buddies.

this guy gets it

 

[Neiteio]

Chris Carter ‏@DtoidChris 8h

Death threats for a Donkey Kong 10/10 review "because it took a new Metroid Prime away from me."
Stay classy, Metroid fans

I can only imagine what kind of letters Retro gets.

Actually... imagine what kind of letters Sakurai gets.

 

[DICKS AHOY]

Actually... imagine what kind of letters Sakurai gets.

it's his own fault for not listening to the people and putting in shadow the hedgehog or naruto

 

[ShockingAlberto]

Chris Carter ‏@DtoidChris 8h

Death threats for a Donkey Kong 10/10 review "because it took a new Metroid Prime away from me."
Stay classy, Metroid fans

Tom McShea should act more professionally imo

 

[I'M FINISHED!]

I am already getting excited for Retro's Donkey Kong Country Prime in 3 years. You Metroiders will get Team Ninja's Metroid: Other M Part II and like it.

 

[Wishmaster92]

it's his own fault for not listening to the people and putting in shadow the hedgehog or naruto

or chibi robo...

or even a call of duty soldier... gotta love miiverse

 

[I'M FINISHED!]

Multiplayer.it: 8.5/10

 

[Rogue_Ledr]

All over this later this week.

Got this thing paid off.

I finally get to play a new great game on Wii U.

About damn time!

 

[Lijik]

Actually... imagine what kind of letters Sakurai gets.

Oh I dont have to

 

[I'M FINISHED!]

3DJuegos: 9/10

 

[Yoshi]

Shacknews cons
-Doesn't use the Wii tablet
-Too difficult
-Unresponsive controls combined with difficult stages
-Hitbox dissonance
-Barrel levels require mashing and are frustrating

Interesting and a bit worrying, but it's nice to see they were looking right at the game controls.

Also...


Well no shit. If an enemy barely grazes you, they still touch you. Your toe is part of your body, aka your hitbox. You don't say "the hit detection was bad in this FPS because a bullet barely grazed my toe."

1. Is correct
2. Is bs. It's even easier than Returns
3. Unresponsive? I'm extremely picky with controls and DKC5 isabsolutely immediate, nothing unresponsive about this game.
4. What's a hitbox dissonance? Not once have I felt a hitbox "betrayed me"
5. Barrel levels are the same as they were in Returns. If you're into playing time attack you will even find them to be the easiest levels of the game. I agree that the barrel levels are a bit tricky, but they are definitely not bad. Instead of mashing you should try a good rhythm.

 

[LTWood12]

Does it save after every level?

Also, to the poster who refuses to play Rayman Legends; you're missing out on an amazing game.

And can we not shit on Puppeteer? I mean so the guy reviewed it better. It's a good game that no one bought. DKCTF won't have that problem.

 

[StreetsAhead]

Oh I dont have to

Thank you. I needed a pick-me-up.

Does it save after every level?

Yes. It's not like the NSMB series.

 

[VanWinkle]

The reviewer scored Puppeteer a 9/10.

That is all.

Uhhh...as a massive fan of DKCR AND Puppeteer, what are you trying to say? Please don't tell me that liking puppeteer negates one's opinion of DKCTF. Just like loving uncharted shouldn't negate one's opinion on Gears of War.

 

[spliced]

Shacknews cons
-Doesn't use the Wii tablet
-Too difficult
-Unresponsive controls combined with difficult stages
-Hitbox dissonance
-Barrel levels require mashing and are frustrating

Interesting and a bit worrying, but it's nice to see they were looking right at the game controls.

Also...


Well no shit. If an enemy barely grazes you, they still touch you. Your toe is part of your body, aka your hitbox. You don't say "the hit detection was bad in this FPS because a bullet barely grazed my toe."

So just like the SNES DKC games in other words.

 

[Macapala]

Oh I dont have to

"If Little Mac can join the smash so can Goku"

LOL! What??

 

[TheFLYINGManga_Ka]

Hitbox dissonance?

You play as a huge ape! Of course the animation and weight of jumping and stomping will be different from a Mario or Rayman!

 

[The Xtortionist]

So just like the SNES DKC games in other words.

I'll give you that DKC1 was fiddly at points, but they locked that shit down for the sequels.

 

[tim_pkmn89]

When Cranky Kong takes over Twitter on Thursday, someone should ask him where the heck the original DKC trilogy have gone on the Virtual Console. I downloaded all three, but I want everyone to be able to access them. Taking those off the VC is like a library saying, "Yeah, let's lock away the collective works of Shakespeare."

There's only one reason why they'd be taken down and that is legal issues with Rare/MS. Might be cameos from a property MS owns now or something.

 

[Arkage]

You can do that with every genre btw.

You bring up the twitch skill aspect, yes that's important too in keeping me engaged. I don't feel like I'm doing something meaningful when I'm platforming in Assassin's for example, it's a lack of stimulation. Some people I observe get off by the cosmetics of it all; you're jumping from rooftop to rooftop in a "cool" manner with shaky cams. But when you break it down it's automatic gameplay and thus boring to me.

I find that it's the puzzle solving element that ultimately grabs me. Think about it, combat in Zelda is about figuring out the/a solution using the mechanics and the game's logic. Things like star coin placement in Mario, or optimizing your Pikmin run to get the best possible time. These are immensely satisfying experiences.

I agree puzzle solving stuff in games is satisfying, but most 2D platforming comes down to practicing a twitch skill over and over until perfect. Braid may be the one exception where puzzle solving actually takes a forefront instead of how fast you can press a button to collect a coin/banana/ring, and I loved it for it. Practicing twitch skills is just as boring for me as running on a roof of Assassin's creed. This is especially the case with 2d platformers since there is entirely too little that's new under the sun for that genre. At least with great graphics or atmosphere you can be distracted by shiny things while going through the 20 year old motions.

 

[DICKS AHOY]

There's only one reason why they'd be taken down and that is legal issues with Rare/MS. Might be cameos from a property MS owns now or something.

There's Killer Instinct stuff in DKC2, but nothing really springs to mind in DKC or DKC3. Maybe Rare still owns the code and whatever deal Nintendo had with them to resell it expired a year or so ago?

 

[Log4Girlz]

I always hate low score conversations and the speculation behind what sinister motivations are at play in handing out the scoring. No matter which way you slice it, it seems unproductive. If the writer is being sincere and truly believes it's a 6/10 game, then I think we undermine that diverging opinions are actually a good thing. I'm not saying everyone here knocking that will agree with the following sentiment, but I see a lot of chatter about how reviews are too homogeneous and that there's basically an 8 to 10 scale, with everything below an 8 basically existing in some "it's terrible" category. Someone giving an honest 6 to something that isn't terrible isn't automatically a bad thing, as it encourages using more of the scale.

But let's just assume for one second that we know better and that there's no reason to extend such a benefit of the doubt to the author. They're trolling for clicks, and it would be an insult to the intelligence of everyone involved in this conversation to pretend otherwise. We're not that gullible! OK, then I would argue that this meandering conversation serves no other purpose than to shine more of a light on the review, thus helping it accomplish just what it set out to do.

Maybe I'm just crazy, but no matter the medium, if I don't see eye to eye with a particular critic, I just know that I personally can take their criticisms with a grain of salt. There's no need to get worked about about whether it's valid or try to convince others that the score should be ignored. Once I get around to playing DK, if I think it's the cat's pajamas, I might look back on Gamespot's review and conclude that I don't agree with that score. But, that'd be the extent of it. They have their opinion, I'll have mine.

I could be mistaken, but I swear I've read mods discuss something alone these lines repeatedly in big review threads. I don't understand why we can't just take a review for what it is, just read it, understand what the reviewer is trying to say and stop trying to review the review. Review whining is so annoying. If you don't agree with what someone is saying, that's ok, its not the end of the world, its an opinion.

 

[dark10x]

They're a dying breed besides Nintendo and indies.

I don't believe this at all.

Platformers (especially 2D) *WERE* a dying breed for a while, but in the last few years, they've been almost completely revived. There are a LOT of platformers out there.

Nintendo is making more platformers these days than they did during the N64 and Gamecube era and Indies, of course, have been releasing them by the truck load, as you note. I don't think you can brush those things off so quickly, though, as this does represent a LOT of games.

That said, a smattering of platformers from the last generation and beyond. The list goes much deeper, but this excludes the real indie stuff as well as Nintendo's games. Add those in and you'll be buried in excellent platformers. The genre is stronger now than it has been since the 16-bit days. Let us rejoice!

 

[iamaustrian]

Another great WiiU exclusive. Will pick it up on release day friday this week.

Seems like the console is slowly building up a nice collection of must-have games.

 

[StreetsAhead]

I don't understand why we can't just take a review for what it is, just read it, understand what the reviewer is trying to say and stop trying to review the review. ... If you don't agree with what someone is saying, that's ok, its not the end of the world, its an opinion.

Why shouldn't be we allowed to discuss the opinion? Why can't we critique it?
Why can't we have an opinion on the opinion presented in the review?

Yes, there are members and people around the internet who create conspiracies or cry 'click bait' at the first sign of negativity. But we should be able to discuss the opinions presented in reviews, both positive and negative. Otherwise what's the point of having a forum to talk about games at all?

 

[VanWinkle]

I don't believe this at all.

Platformers (especially 2D) *WERE* a dying breed for a while, but in the last few years, they've been almost completely revived. There are a LOT of platformers out there.

Nintendo is making more platformers these days than they did during the N64 and Gamecube era and Indies, of course, have been releasing them by the truck load, as you note. I don't think you can brush those things off so quickly, though, as this does represent a LOT of games.

That said, a smattering of platformers from the last generation and beyond. The list goes much deeper, but this excludes the real indie stuff as well as Nintendo's games. Add those in and you'll be buried in excellent platformers. The genre is stronger now than it has been since the 16-bit days. Let us rejoice!

YES. Platformers have had a GREAT past few years. And don't forget one of my favorites: Spelunky!

 

[Log4Girlz]

Why shouldn't be we allowed to discuss the opinion? Why can't we critique it?
Why can't we have an opinion on the opinion presented in the review?

Because much of the time its not an honest critique and just whining about a number which is not as high as a poster expects and takes it as a personal insult. This happens too much. Conspiracy theories, insults etc.