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Dota 2 Beta Thread 4: Even Mike Ross Plays [Elder Titan]

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ksan said:
Yeah, that's it.

I should probably add that Slardar isn't really a hard carry, but he definitely fits within the carry category. The best description is probably that he's a timing carry, you should farm him until you hit a window where you can "out-carry" the enemy carry (amplify is completely ridiculous during a long window, probably gives you more than double the damage against most agi carries).

I guess I could write some pointers for playing him as a carry (do this after you have decided that this is the best option, if you're running 2-1-2 lanes with another carry that does physical damage you'd probably rather go some blink build).

Starting items: stout shield+branches+regen
Skill build: Max crush first, and get one rank of sprint and bash on lvl 2 and 4, then max sprint, and after that bash. Obviously picking up your ulti when you can :p
Core items: PTs, Magic Wand, Armlet, Helm of Dominator, BKB
Items after that: AC is usually the best option, after that whatever (satanic is pretty good).

Farm as a hard carry until you get your core items.
When you get helm of iron will+boots+stick you can start going a lot more aggressive on the lane as it provides good regen and armor, and you're probably not gonna get bursted down (you still want to get every last hit though).
It's preferably to not use crush to harass, unless you're forcing someone out of the lane, but rather to get kills; mana management is the key. If you have a strong lane partner on the lane you should be able to get kills with sprint and crush (and maybe a lucky bash), don't be too afraid to dive towers as you have quite high effective HP.
When you get your armlet and dominator, you can start doing whatever you want, usually killing the enemy carry solo repeatedly. An anti-mage without manta should die if you get amplify+crush+a bash off, amplify damage really does that much.
You still want to farm though, so you eventually get your bkb, so if you get a kill, either continue farming on the lane, tp to another lane and farm, or just do some jungling with amplify.
At this point you should also be able to force pushes, killing towers and removing map control is one of the keys to winning games as a hero as slardar.
As soon as you have gotten all outer tower, you want to push their base as you're gonna be a lot stronger than their harder carry.

Other things:
Getting roshan is easy with amplify and some help
Always carry a tp, but don't tp to help unless you're sure you will be the difference in the fight and that you'll get at least some kills, sacrificing farm early is usually not a good idea as any carry.

I probably missed a lot, apparently I need to stand in.
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PTs?
 
Opened a chest and got legendary wings! :D and also realised I have buds on my TF2 account I wonder if I could get anything for them in DOTA2
 
Technosteve said:
if anyone want to buy a graphics card from me that can run Dota 2 max i have a Radeon HD 4890 Saphire Vapor X that i am willing to sell for steam buxs or paypal. I just got a new graphics card that runs everything pretty good, Radeon 7870 XT.
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120fps @ 1080p?
 
At best we get Skywrath Mage and I'm not holding my breath.

What I want are assurances they're working on the servers and doing what they can to help tournaments run more smoothly.
 
ksan said:
What a fukken fraud this guy is, this line of thinking is the reason why practically everyone is dog shit at slardar.
Carry slardars get the wrong items, and people don't judge correctly whether to get initation or carry items on him depending on the situation.
Also, it seems that people have a hard time farming without bfury/mael/etc, you can't be lazy if you're playing carry slardar.
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Carry sladar sucks balls, the hero's niche is in the early/mid game. I really don't see how a carry slardar succeeds unless you're pub stomping; he lacks a lot of the special attributes that good carries have; like being able to knock down buildings and having good farming ability.

Farm as a hard carry until you get your core items.
When you get helm of iron will+boots+stick you can start going a lot more aggressive on the lane as it provides good regen and armor, and you're probably not gonna get bursted down (you still want to get every last hit though).
It's preferably to not use crush to harass, unless you're forcing someone out of the lane, but rather to get kills; mana management is the key. If you have a strong lane partner on the lane you should be able to get kills with sprint and crush (and maybe a lucky bash), don't be too afraid to dive towers as you have quite high effective HP.
When you get your armlet and dominator, you can start doing whatever you want, usually killing the enemy carry solo repeatedly. An anti-mage without manta should die if you get amplify+crush+a bash off, amplify damage really does that much.
You still want to farm though, so you eventually get your bkb, so if you get a kill, either continue farming on the lane, tp to another lane and farm, or just do some jungling with amplify.
At this point you should also be able to force pushes, killing towers and removing map control is one of the keys to winning games as a hero as slardar.
As soon as you have gotten all outer tower, you want to push their base as you're gonna be a lot stronger than their harder carry.
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Slardar doesn't need items to do any of these things.
 
PillowKnight said:
Carry sladar sucks balls, the hero's niche is in the early/mid game. I really don't see how a carry slardar succeeds unless you're pub stomping; he lacks a lot of the special attributes that good carries have; like being able to knock down buildings and having good farming ability.

Slardar doesn't need items to do any of these things.
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I know what I'm talking about :)
 
PillowKnight said:
I know what :), but after reading your big ass post(which I agree with) what "that guy" is saying and what you're saying is almost the same thing.
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I was criticizing his methodology the last page as well, the results for slardar aren't exogeneous.
It's a lot about the context of the game, and I don't know where this notion of carries only being the hard carries comes from.
 
Technosteve said:
i actually have no clue, i always run it with vsync


i don't think slardar is a good carry as he is really effective as a roaming ganker that's about it...
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That's not really maxed out then, but a very good card. I'm sure you can get a great deal if someone is running really old stuff - take it
 
ksan said:
I was criticizing his methodology the last page as well, the results for slardar aren't exogeneous.
It's a lot about the context of the game, and I don't know where this notion of carries only being the hard carries comes from.
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The statistics don't say anything about the quality of player's item choices(this is what you mean by context right?). The data set includes farming slardars just as it includes ganky slardars. Are you saying that the farming slardars all buy such shit items, that it pushes the ganking slardars to have a better ability to win?

I find it hard to believe that everyone in the community plays slardar incorrectly, and personally, I don't believe your style of slardar play can work better than a low-farm slardar in regular pub environments.

Edit : Dotametrics guy(who needs a fucking name), is actually arguing for a carry scale, and the chart he posted does the opposite of striking a line between carries and hard carries.
 
ksan said:
I was criticizing his methodology the last page as well, the results for slardar aren't exogeneous.
It's a lot about the context of the game, and I don't know where this notion of carries only being the hard carries comes from.
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You forgot the number one rule to playing Slardar: Non-Filipino or Malaysian need not apply. This is why Loda is terrible at Slardar cough Zenith TI2 cough, I would not mind seeing him some more in competitive dota though.
 
PillowKnight said:
The statistics don't say anything about the quality of player's item choices(this is what you mean by context right?). The data set includes farming slardars just as it includes ganky slardars. Are you saying that the farming slardars all buy such shit items, that it pushes the ganking slardars to have a better ability to win?

I find it hard to believe that everyone in the community plays slardar incorrectly, and personally, I don't believe your style of slardar play can work better than a low-farm slardar in regular pub environments.

Edit : Dotametrics guy(who needs a fucking name), is actually arguing for a carry scale, and the chart he posted does the opposite of striking a line between carries and hard carries.
Click to expand...

Yes, practically all slardars buy sub-optimal items, thus making the difference between a slardar who farms well and farms badly is smaller than it should be. It's a biased estimate.
What I mean with context is that in some situations playing a more carry like slardar is better, sometimes going for initation and blink is a lot better.

He does argue that slardar shouldn't be classified as a carry at all though, which I think is totally wrong.
 
Glix said:
Slardar can really fuck Riki over. Just sayin.
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Lots of things can fuck Riki over. It's sad how many Riki players instantly go deer-in-headlights mode once they realize the enemy is proactive about getting sentries and wards and never do anything productive for the rest of the game.
 
Pureauthor said:
Lots of things can fuck Riki over. It's sad how many Riki players instantly go deer-in-headlights mode once they realize the enemy is proactive about getting sentries and wards and never do anything productive for the rest of the game.
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No I think the culture is that Riki is meant not to be seen and they would rather die to Riki than any one else because that would mean skill inadequacy versus Oh Riki.
"Fuck you man, I'm not spending 200 gold on wards or [cough] 700 on a gem.
I need my items that I read about in the guide I downloaded. Let's see here Warlock - rush refresher and scepter then get boots."

Buying wards imbalances this prey-predator relationship.

mqdefault.jpg

Dota 2 Top 5 Workshop : Week 41
http://youtu.be/0TC20Zsd6Ok
Some ugly mirana's, salesman alch, and some couriers
 
A lot of people are waaay too afraid to pick up an early gem. Playing against Bounty, Riki, or others? Grab a gem and deathball those towers.
 
Early gem requires that your team to know what it's doing though (and most teams don't), it's a heavy investment!
 
Just grab some sentries if Riki's in your lane and keep an eye on his exp, once he hits level 6, retreat a bit from the creep line, throw down a sentry, and wait.

Guaranteed kill.
 
early gem = 9/10 times other team that was dominating you scoops it up anyway.

I like sentries better, gem is best when you're already dominating or things are pretty equal.
 
Haly said:
Early gem requires that your team to know what it's doing though (and most teams don't), it's a heavy investment!
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Yes, which is why I usually trust myself with an early Gem (unless a teammate happens to ask to carry it and my five-second read of their competence isn't "feeder"). Gem if you're Riki is straight up lulz.
 
Schweinehund said:
early gem = 9/10 times other team that was dominating you scoops it up anyway.

I like sentries better, gem is best when you're already dominating or things are pretty equal.
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Disagree, gem is what brings you back into the game if you're getting clobbered by a Nyx or Bounty or Clinkz or whatever invis hero they have. You can't keep spamming sentries up and down the lane that you're pushing and throughout your own jungle just so you can safely farm. Gem lets you do that, helps you deward, and gives you back map control.
 
Can't believe people think Slardar sucks. He's one of my favorite heroes. Got a 78% win rate with him.

PT > BKB >Hyperstone > Yasha > Heart > Deso > AC
 
F#A#Oo said:
Advise please

I might need to get a new PC...

What spec's would run Dota 2 effortlessly on high/everything on or there abouts?

At the minute I get weird stuttering in certain menu's...like hero selection, when being placed in the map initially there is a delay of 1/2 seconds. During play I sometimes get weird stuttering/lag/animation skipping.

Should I go AMD/Radeon combo? Intel/InVidia? I haven't kept up with PC stuff in like 3 years now so I don't know who has the stronger tech. I've gone AMD/Radeon for the last 7-8 years due to cheapness but people always seem to tout Intel and nVidia products and I'm not strapped for cash so I might finally make the jump to their products.
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I max Dota on my 5770 at 1680x1050.
 
Artanisix said:
A lot of people are waaay too afraid to pick up an early gem. Playing against Bounty, Riki, or others? Grab a gem and deathball those towers.
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This annoys me so much, I try to grab gem at 15/20 minutes if there is an enemy with Invis, but so many people are reluctant to grab one.
 
Armor reduction items on Slardar seem overrated. I can see getting either a Desolator or an Assault Cuirass, particularly to help out in the midgame. But both? At 31 armor reduction, you're hitting severe diminishing returns against all but the highest-armor heroes.
 
Kenaras said:
Armor reduction items on Slardar seem overrated. I can see getting either a Desolator or an Assault Cuirass, particularly to help out in the midgame. But both? At 31 armor reduction, you're hitting severe diminishing returns against all but the highest-armor heroes.
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That's why they're last. Deso is for armor reduction on targets when you switch before your ult comes back up as you should be melting people if you have all that farm. AC is for the attack speed buff for your whole team if you're rolling in it. You can certainly sub other stuff but I think the item progression before that is great for most games and I find Deso highly useful on him. You don't really get to the AC level usually since you win first but you might as well build the AC if you have the extra skrilla. You could change that to Mjollnir of course or what have you.
 
Drkirby said:
This annoys me so much, I try to grab gem at 15/20 minutes if there is an enemy with Invis, but so many people are reluctant to grab one.
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early gem is such a good investment, easy farm the gem gank the invis heroe BAM you got the money back. ppl who only buy sentries and dust end up losing way too much gold and the return isnt that good all the time. there is a reason why its called and investment.
 
I had a game with a drow that went 2-12, trying to teach me and giving me orders like defending a tower 2vs5 and similar things. I kept telling him that it was suicide, and he got really mad at me.

I even told him to read a guide, Welcome to dota: you suck, and he told me "guides are for losers".

I could not stop laughing.
 
Kenaras said:
Armor reduction items on Slardar seem overrated. I can see getting either a Desolator or an Assault Cuirass, particularly to help out in the midgame. But both? At 31 armor reduction, you're hitting severe diminishing returns against all but the highest-armor heroes.
Click to expand...
Armor can't be reduced below -20, but in real-world conditions you're going to have heroes with things like Mekansms, Assault Cuirasses, etc, as well as armor from their natural agility gain. Even with both an AC and a Desolator, the amount of wasted negative armor on targets with equivalent armor and levels is probably marginal (especially before level 16). And as Aselith says, you're more flexible with your Amplify cooldown.
 
Was just in a game where our mid TA went 1-7 within the first 20 min or so. Likely reason??? Went straight bottle into Blink Dagger... Nothing else. Bottle -> blink dagger....
 
A last pick Skeleton King pretty much led to us being outpicked. For the most part I was solo as Luna against Tiny and Silencer, with Axe occasionally coming out to help, but it was no good since I was usually out of mana. Nobody could get any items, it was extremely frustrating.

http://dotabuff.com/matches/175395013
 
ksan said:
I was criticizing his methodology the last page as well, the results for slardar aren't exogeneous.
It's a lot about the context of the game, and I don't know where this notion of carries only being the hard carries comes from.
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blink on sladar, it's pretty much core. he's so much better with it.
heart is nice too.
 
Aselith said:
That's why they're last. Deso is for armor reduction on targets when you switch before your ult comes back up as you should be melting people if you have all that farm. AC is for the attack speed buff for your whole team if you're rolling in it. You can certainly sub other stuff but I think the item progression before that is great for most games and I find Deso highly useful on him. You don't really get to the AC level usually since you win first but you might as well build the AC if you have the extra skrilla. You could change that to Mjollnir of course or what have you.
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Makes sense; I'm still trying to find an item build I like. It seems like most people have been recommending various Armlet-based builds.

Bo said:
Armor can't be reduced below -20, but in real-world conditions you're going to have heroes with things like Mekansms, Assault Cuirasses, etc, as well as armor from their natural agility gain. Even with both an AC and a Desolator, the amount of wasted negative armor on targets with equivalent armor and levels is probably marginal (especially before level 16). And as Aselith says, you're more flexible with your Amplify cooldown.
Click to expand...

Stacking additional armor reduction becomes pretty weak before even hitting the -20 cap. The flexibility when Amplify is on cooldown makes sense, though.
 
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