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Dota 2 |OT13| 6.86, our Pit Lord and savior

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TUSR

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Jun 3, 2009
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I want more snow, but at least it's stayed cold enough for some outdoor ice skating. Perfect timing too since I bet my internet will be back at 56k speeds tonight with all of our "allotted bandwidth" gone :(
Haven't played a single game of pond hockey this year. Global warming or something.
 

Russ T

Banned
Aug 8, 2015
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wow it's sixty six degrees where my parents live

in ohio

i guess i'm not gonna get to see any snow this year
 

DrPizza

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Nov 10, 2014
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One of the reasons we moved from Houston to NYC is because my wife wanted proper seasons.

We had highs of 64 today, and it should hit 70 tomorrow. It's absolutely insane. These are record highs.
 

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
Oct 10, 2006
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One of the reasons we moved from Houston to NYC is because my wife wanted proper seasons.

We had highs of 64 today, and it should hit 70 tomorrow. It's absolutely insane. These are record highs.
Man this summer is going to be a fucking barbeque.
 

Hylian7

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Mar 25, 2009
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how about the caveat that its a pudge who has to farm around 8k networth to even get to that point in the first place, or does aghs just show up in your inventory before the bounty rune spawns?
It's actually about 6.5k, unless you were counting Octarine pieces or something. That still isn't that tall of an order. Pudge is played in a core position these days, and even in the offlane, he can still get there by the time it's needed (seizing T3s)

It also:

Doesn't improve his laning at all

If you get behind early you're still a pudge that's behind, good luck getting kills

Hook can not only be missed but can be dodged, there are like 3 blinks per game by the end these days which makes it easy
Of course hooks can be dodged, but any Pudge that knows what he is doing isn't going to stand in plain sight to throw hooks into the base. Dodging hooks you can't see is an entirely different matter, and if you are pushed into your base, good luck warding outside it, assuming you didn't get dewarded.

Also dodging one hook isn't enough. He has another in 4 seconds and your Blink is still down if you used it.

I really think it needs to not go through BKB anymore. He can easily remove your carry from the fight and into a bad spot, no matter what he has.
 

Acinixys

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Mar 14, 2012
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Invoker is looking to be the op hero right now, that huge of a winrate increase while also being picked more often AND being very successful in pros is a bad sign, he'll probably get nerfed very soon if this keeps going like this.
Giving him a free level in Invoke is fucking retarded

Please revert that garbage. Ive had an Invoker in every one of my last 5 games because of how easy mode he is
 

Hylian7

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Mar 25, 2009
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Giving him a free level in Invoke is fucking retarded

Please revert that garbage. Ive had an Invoker in every one of my last 5 games because of how easy mode he is
I like the idea, they just need to lower the level 1 Cold Snap stats. Before this change he was completely dead weight in going for the bounty rune.
 

Shinypogs

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Out of curiosity ( as a scrub whose grasp on mechanics is a thing of dreams) how broken would Io be if tether shared the effect of any rune they had personally activated and was not just limited to how tether currently interacts with the regen rune? Actual explanations with examples would be appreciated. I.E if wisp could share an arcane rune with X then such and such a combo would be possible from minute Y and that would be unreasonably difficult to stop/ draft around etc etc.

Alternatively could altering how tethered rune effects work make an Io combination strong but not broken? I.E popping illusion while tethered gives you two Io illusions but only one of your partner, activating bounty grants your partner a lesser percentage of gold and xp.

I'll keep track of people who answer with more than " lol it would be terrible" in the next 24ish hours and try and throw some of my spare immortals and bundles at as many of you as I can for indulging my curiosity.
 

TUSR

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Out of curiosity ( as a scrub whose grasp on mechanics is a thing of dreams) how broken would Io be if tether shared the effect of any rune they had personally activated and was not just limited to how tether currently interacts with the regen rune? Actual explanations with examples would be appreciated. I.E if wisp could share an arcane rune with X then such and such a combo would be possible from minute Y and that would be unreasonably difficult to stop/ draft around etc etc.

Alternatively could altering how tethered rune effects work make an Io combination strong but not broken? I.E popping illusion while tethered gives you two Io illusions but only one of your partner, activating bounty grants your partner a lesser percentage of gold and xp.

I'll keep track of people who answer with more than " lol it would be terrible" in the next 24ish hours and try and throw some of my spare immortals and bundles at as many of you as I can for indulging my curiosity.
overcharge double damage

would just be broken. even if it only added double dmg based on Io's base dmg, its already good enough of a spell.
 

Artanisix

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It's actually about 6.5k, unless you were counting Octarine pieces or something. That still isn't that tall of an order. Pudge is played in a core position these days, and even in the offlane, he can still get there by the time it's needed (seizing T3s)
i too completely ignore tranquil boots and bottle on pudge and go straight aether/aghs
 
May 20, 2013
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aghs Wisp automatically tethers every hero in a 900 aoe at the same time.

Seriously though Wisp is already fp/fb material in pros(and gets picked up pretty often in high skill levels) and has been for years, buffs would break him beyond belief, especially ones as incredible as sharing runes.

They took away double damage working on all Meepos for a reason, it's not balanced for more than 1 hero to have it at the same time, add in runes like invis, haste and arcane and you got yourself a 2 man ganking duo every single time he picks up a rune.
 

Shuggananas

Banned
Dec 10, 2014
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28 minutes mega even though PA free farmed for a long time
"what the fuck just happened" was my reaction, our lanes were fucked (dank seer mid, gyro slardar dual safe), but I guess they fucked theirs even harder

alright I'm thinking real hard to find a way to make gyro's aghs viable. what if it didn't have a delay on the first missile ? on top of being global ofc
Sounds strong but it's a slot on a hard carry so hey
 

Sgt.Pepper

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Jan 19, 2010
14,286
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28 minutes mega even though PA free farmed for a long time
"what the fuck just happened" was my reaction, our lanes were fucked (dank seer mid, gyro slardar dual safe), but I guess they fucked theirs even harder

alright I'm thinking real hard to find a way to make gyro's aghs viable. what if it didn't have a delay on the first missile ? on top of being global ofc
Sounds strong but it's a slot on a hard carry so hey
Aghs doesn't affect ult.

Aghs now affects rocket, now rocket launches right away, and minimum distance damage is 40% of the maximum damage per level, increased damage gained per distance traveled.

420 starting speed, 5/5/6/7 hits to destroy for heroes, towers require now 8/8/10/12 hits to destroy.


Literally OP
 

Shuggananas

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Dec 10, 2014
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hook doesn't cost too much mana and pudge has a naturally high mana pool anyway so yeah

edit : ^ so you'd buy aghs only to get some kinda strong stun ? heh
If it didn't affect calldown it should affect flak. Make it apply orbs and modifiers (crit, etc) with aghs
 

1.09

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Dec 30, 2011
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yea the invoker change makes his laning phase insane cuz of alacrity at 2, and potentially cs+alacrity at 3.

if you actually dont know that either you dont play mid or you're so used to losing mid that you don't realize how much of a difference that makes on the hero.
 

Sgt.Pepper

Banned
Jan 19, 2010
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hook doesn't cost too much mana and pudge has a naturally high mana pool anyway so yeah

edit : ^ so you'd buy aghs only to get some kinda strong stun ? heh
If it didn't affect calldown it should affect flak. Make it apply orbs and modifiers (crit, etc) with aghs
just throwing shit

aghs now affects normal skills so just changing ults is a thing of the past.
 

Kard8p3

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Jan 22, 2008
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man i wish i was good at invoker. hero looks retarded tbh.

i guess ill stick with my mongoloid Lycan/LD picks.
 

Shinypogs

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Seriously though Wisp is already fp/fb material in pros(and gets picked up pretty often in high skill levels) and has been for years, buffs would break him beyond belief, especially ones as incredible as sharing runes.
Trust me I know wisp is good but I always wonder about these sorts things so it helps me to ask questions and see a wider view of opinions on why what I was thinking of was good or bad. I went through the same thing when I had questions about Tidehunter earlier this year and needed dotagaf to explain to me why he'd sort of moved out of mid (where I mostly saw him when I stated watching pros and playing in 2013) to the offlane for the most part and some little mechanical things used to keep him balanced but not broken given his skillset. Without having things spelled out for me I can get frustrated about why certain heroes can play any role or do anything but others can't. Usually there's a good explanation about scaling, unique skill sets and other stuff that I don't see through my " but it's not fair" goggles, so I need less biased people to explain.


In this case I was also thinking wisp tends to get paired with a smallish handful of heroes most consistently and I was curious if the ability to share runes would widen that pool and we'd see more unusual combos. I miss when Alliance used to run riki+wisp and other odd things. Obviously letting Wisp pair with anyone any time would be bad but I'd like to see more variety.

Dotagaf is incredibly tolerant of my "explain this thing please" grumbles which I appreciate a lot.
 

Anbokr

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May 15, 2010
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I like the idea, they just need to lower the level 1 Cold Snap stats. Before this change he was completely dead weight in going for the bounty rune.
uhhhh:
MANY PATCHES AGO said:
6.81b
-Changed Cold Snap damage from a constant 30 (60 initially) to 7/14/21/28/35/42/49, based on Quas level
.
Invoker may be overpowered, but it is absolutely not due to level 1 cold snap... Most invokers these days do not even have cold snap until level 3. Alacrity definitely needs a nerf (or invoker's manacosts need to go up) now that he can get it at level 2 instead of 3. The original buff(s) to alacrity before this patch feel unnecessary now that invoke is free at 1.
 

Quesa

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Aug 6, 2012
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I'm here to sing the praises of scepter on bristle. Or at least make a good case for it.

It's not core. I still think something like blademail/vanguard into crimson works best as a core item on him, and I think he still does a lot of good work with sny/ac.

But!

It's great on him in the following situations:

1) Illusion heroes: being able to slow down all of PL's illusions, as well as always get the PL is underestimated. BB didn't have a problem with them before, but now it's even easier to slow down multiple targets and not have to kill them. And since you slow everyone down, getting the kill on the PL that starts turning to leave is even easier.

This also helps with wave clear.

2) When you're not the main damage dealer. With scepter you can go all in on teamfighting/defense BB. CG, AC, Scepter gives you a ton of tank, and if you have another damage dealer on the team and are playing on the backfoot, it lets you run into enemies, turn around, and spam Q. If they don't focus you, you can turn around and get free damage until they do.

3) Initiation. This run into them scenario also works because you can slow them while running away, making it even harder for the enemy to chase you down. It also makes him deadlier to chase with the minus armor. If you get all five in range, that's -10 armor per cast.

Overall I think the item is still situational and not core like a lot of other upgrades, but I don't think it's "Have Alch farm it for you" tier. I might even go for it right after CG next time.
 

Hylian7

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uhhhh:


Invoker may be overpowered, but it is absolutely not due to level 1 cold snap... Most invokers these days do not even have cold snap until level 3. Alacrity definitely needs a nerf (or invoker's manacosts need to go up) now that he can get it at level 2 instead of 3. The original buff(s) to alacrity before this patch feel unnecessary now that invoke is free at 1.
Yeah, that actually makes sense. Why wouldn't they take Quas at 1 though? That seems silly to me. It's the only logical choice for the bounty rune fight.
 

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
Oct 10, 2006
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Because the lane phase still needs to happen and Quas at level 1 means goodbye CS.
 
May 20, 2013
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I was watching Zai's stream and while I don't understand Invoker he did have something to say about it. He said the last time Invoker was broken it was Q/E and it was because his forged spirits were too strong in lane, and now it's alacrity. He also said that Invokers are generally very happy once they get off to a strong start, which is what alacrity gives him now.
 

sixghost

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May 23, 2010
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Yeah, that actually makes sense. Why wouldn't they take Quas at 1 though? That seems silly to me. It's the only logical choice for the bounty rune fight.
I don't play invoker, but wouldn't EMP be the better choice for a big fight at the bounty rune?
 

User 85168

Banned
Jun 30, 2011
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Yeah, that actually makes sense. Why wouldn't they take Quas at 1 though? That seems silly to me. It's the only logical choice for the bounty rune fight.
Pretty much always lvl 1 exort so you can last hit and get alacrity at lvl 2. You start with Nulls and two Faerie Fire, get pulled tangos if you can. If your team can help you get the bounty rune, great, but it's still okay if you can't. You hit for 60-70 damage at lvl 1 with Exort, then get alacrity at lvl 2 for additional 30 damage. Invoker used to be bad because almost everyone would dump on your lane, but now you lane extremely well, and have the choice between two very effective skill builds.

I don't play invoker, but wouldn't EMP be the better choice for a big fight at the bounty rune?
EMP lvl 1 is pretty awful. 50 damage per target before reductions.
 

Anbokr

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May 15, 2010
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I was watching Zai's stream and while I don't understand Invoker he did have something to say about it. He said the last time Invoker was broken it was Q/E and it was because his forged spirits were too strong in lane, and now it's alacrity. He also said that Invokers are generally very happy once they get off to a strong start, which is what alacrity gives him now.
Yeah that's generally the problem with invoker, the hero has always had a great mid/late game (even better now with 4.0 int gain and other buffs). So when he also has a good early game... welp then his only actual counter throughout an entire game is BKB and even that isn't amazing (and can be waited out) considering the power of his right click with high int gain + alacrity + some damage items. For a hero of his power, his laning stage needs to be relatively weak. How weak? That's the trouble.
 

DrPizza

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Nov 10, 2014
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aghs Wisp automatically tethers every hero in a 900 aoe at the same time.
That would make Pit Lord pretty redundant.

How about: Wisp still gets his natural regen and applies it to tether targets even when he's at 100%, and tether distance is increased somewhat. No need to put the Wisp low just to heal the person on the other end, easier for Wisp to stay out of trouble.
 

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
Oct 10, 2006
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Aghs: Tether stuns again.

GG
 

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
Oct 10, 2006
58,526
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Aghs: Makes spirits permanent. Tethered unit gets their own spirits controlled by you but rotate in the opposite direction.

And tether stuns.
 
May 20, 2013
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That would make Pit Lord pretty redundant.

How about: Wisp still gets his natural regen and applies it to tether targets even when he's at 100%, and tether distance is increased somewhat. No need to put the Wisp low just to heal the person on the other end, easier for Wisp to stay out of trouble.
Boring, we need something that turns him into a different hero.

Aghs Wisp: grants Wisp the ability to tether the enemy, if Wisp overcharges while tethered to an enemy hero he drains health/mana, reduces their AS and makes them take bonus damage. Enemy Tether has a 120 second cooldown.
 

Hylian7

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Mar 25, 2009
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Aghs Wisp can hit the key again to go to a second destination during the relocate. Tether can now Tether enemy heroes.
 
D

Deleted member 77995

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I need a new anime series in my life. Havent watched anything since steins gate and fate zero.

Recommendacions plz
 

TUSR

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Jun 3, 2009
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whiskey i was just thinking about you bro

check out one punch man

dont watch any other fate adaptation, theyre all disappointing
 
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