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[Sir Garbageman]

Is it just me or is this game not getting a lot of attention. It feels like there isn't much hype for it. I am not much into Bio ware games, but I want this to win me over. It looks great Snr previews look fun. Media seems to ignore it though.

I think the biggest issue is that Bioware has lost a lot of goodwill in the hardcore gaming community. The one two punch of Dragon Age 2's horrible rush job coupled with the ME3 ending debacle really hurt the studio's brand.

Also I think that they are trying to appeal to a broader base with the franchise by attempting to be both be an action game and a tactical RPG which might be leading to the lack of buzz. The hardcore RPG fandom which would potentially generate crazy hype for a title are looking at the Witcher 3 for their open world RPG fix and Pillars of Eternity for their classic crpg fix and potentially overlooking DAI a little bit.

Throw in some disdain for EA and their anti-consumer nonsense and you have a receipe for the potential for apathy for DAI.

Im personally cautiously optimistic but def will wait and see.

 

[Durante]

To be fair to bioware, a lot of people dont like to read, even more so nowadays it seems.

What I was objecting to is the idea that dialogue didn't used to be deeper than it is in the average modern Bioware game. That's just plainly untrue.
Why that is the case we could discuss all day, and I honestly don't care.

Anyway, it's not like old-school cRPG fans put 10 million+ USD total into crowdfunding projects because current games offer the same experience that old-school ones did.

Compared to Origins? No, I don't think it did.

It suffered, just less heavily, since Origin had already started the dumbing down process.

 

[unbias]

What I was objecting to is the idea that dialogue didn't used to be deeper than it is in the average modern Bioware game. That's just plainly untrue.
Why that is the case we could discuss all day, and I honestly don't care.

Anyway, it's not like old-school cRPG fans put 10 million+ USD total into crowdfunding projects because current games offer the same experience that old-school ones did.

Ya, their dialogue isnt what it used to be, but I dont think that is a reflection on their ability to write dialogue but a reflection of their game design. But ya, I get your point, although I think why is more interesting then the fact that it is what it is.


And yes, I'm glad those of us who grew up on those old CRPG's can personally invest without having to go through publisher bureaucracy.

 

[Durante]

Ya, their dialogue isnt what it used to be, but I dont think that is a reflection on their ability to write dialogue but a reflection of their game design. But ya, I get your point, although I think why is more interesting then the fact that it is what it is.

I really think the "why" is quite easy to analyze, if you want to.

1. Some publishers' market analysis geniuses figured out that most people don't like reading.
2. Therefore, text-only dialogue limits your target audience.
3. Therefore, everything needs to be voiced.
4. Therefore, you can only have much fewer and less in-depth options for production reasons (and also iterate less on those options during development).

What they didn't consider at first is that people who dislike reading wouldn't be interested in a tactical isometric RPG even if it didn't require them to read, so just neutering your dialogue doesn't actually extend your target audience much. But these days, they are getting good at fixing this -- by making the games playable almost entirely like an action title. The fact that this (at least in all implementations so far) also greatly affects the tactical depth of your battles is a small price to pay.

 

[unbias]

I really think the "why" is quite easy to analyze, if you want to.

1. Some publishers' market analysis geniuses figured out that most people don't like reading.
2. Therefore, text-only dialogue limits your target audience.
3. Therefore, everything needs to be voiced.
4. Therefore, you can only have much fewer and less in-depth options for production reasons (and also iterate less on those options during development).

What they didn't consider at first is that people who dislike reading wouldn't be interested in a tactical isometric RPG even if it didn't require them to read, so just neutering your dialogue doesn't actually extend your target audience much. But these days, they are getting good at fixing this -- by making the games playable almost entirely like an action title. The fact that this (at least in all implementations so far) also greatly affects the tactical depth of your battles is a small price to pay.

Ya, the bioware CRPG has almost turned into its own genre at this point. And the bold reminded me how Bioware thought it necessary to add voice to a lot of their codex in Mass Effect.

 

[adj_noun]

Hell, I would be interested to know the % of people who actually read the codex's in their games or people who actually read the books in elder scrolls.

As an aside, I start my own library in every Elder Scrolls game. There's some missions to save the yadda yadda, but that's not important; I have to find the rarest books for my patrons.

 

[unbias]

As an aside, I start my own library in every Elder Scrolls game. There's some missions to save the yadda yadda, but that's not important; I have to find the rarest books for my patrons.

Ya, the books in elder scrolls is like half the story of the series(at least half). Same with Bioware codex, imo. Reading that stuff gives you a better appreciation for their world building.

 

[Durante]

As an aside, I start my own library in every Elder Scrolls game. There's some missions to save the yadda yadda, but that's not important; I have to find the rarest books for my patrons.

That's really fun. It also seems rather popular, considering how automatic bookshelves and book alignment tools are often some of the first mods to be released for new TES games.

 

[tringworldso]

That's actually the Lead Them or Fall trailer you're looking for. BioWare uploaded it to their Youtube and is currently the best quality out there at the moment, 1080 over the link you have for 720. I downloaded it off youtube but I don't know if that actually improves overall quality or if it's basically still the same quality as streaming. Jdownloader2 for downloading of youtube by the by.

Thanks Enduin! It's better than the older YT link I had, that's for sure!

 

[unbias]

That's really fun. It also seems rather popular, considering how automatic bookshelves and book alignment tools are often some of the first mods to be released for new TES games.

Elder Scroll devs do a good job, just at giving their hardcore and/or their readers of their games a lot of nods, I think. I bet the amount of people who actually read most of the books is relatively small, but it would be enough that they devote time to develop the lore of the world through book form. I think it's their way of taking the the main story in a more palatable context for casuals, while at the same time adding a significant amount of context that changes how the core fans of the series perceive the main story and side stories of the games.

 

[petghost]

I wonder if the successful kickstarter campaigns and hopefully successful games that may come out of them have made some publishers reconsider whether games like eternity etc. Might not but such a bad idea. A 4m dollar budget is not a huge risk for them.

 

[Enduin]

I could take a lot more screenshots, if you really want me to. Can you take a single similar example from DA2?

I think it's blatantly obvious that dialogue depth, complexity and nuance suffered heavily with the introduction of the dialogue wheel.
It's OK if you are fine with that, but don't pretend it didn't happen.

Maybe, probably not though. Just going by the numbers up to DAO they certainly weren't lacking compared to their previous titles. I wish this included ME series as well, but I'd say they easily up around Kotor. All I can find is ME had 15k lines of dialog, ME2 had 20k and ME3 had 40k, who knows what that comes out to in words, but easily several hundred thousand for each.

Baldur’s Gate II (2000) – 1,200,000 words
Neverwinter Nights (2002) – 200,000 words
NWN: Shadows of Undrentide (2003) – 200,000 words
NWN: Hordes of the Underdark (2003) – 200,000 words
Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic (2003) – 600,000 words
Dragon Age: Origins (2009) – 900,000 words

Again just going off my own experience I would be willing to bet DA2 would fall somewhere between KotoR and DAO, probably rather close to Kotor in total words. BG2 obviously wipes the floor with all of them, but it's also a much much longer game, easily taking 70 hours for the main campaign alone. Going by How Long to Beat, DAO is about half as long a game yet it only had 1/4 less dialog, that's net positive. Then again DA2 was shorter than DAO by about 1/3 so again the likely amount of dialog and options there.

Obviously this isn't that scientific and took me all of 5 minutes, but it's sure a shit better than random screenshots, and more importantly none of this accounts for quality, but that as well is fairly subjective, though I won't argue that titles like BG2 and PST had some of the best writing the genres ever seen, but in terms of the genre as a whole BioWare's recent offerings, for me at least, have not been far from the aggregate older cRPGs, better in some areas, worse in others, equal more often than not. DA2 is without a doubt their weakest title, but again personally it was more than adequate most of the time, great in a few shining moments, and stupendously horrendous in a few other moments.

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

To be fair to bioware, a lot of people dont like to read, even more so nowadays it seems. Almost 25% of Americans dont even read a book, and only around 50% actually read books for fun anymore. It really is a problem that effects more then just books, but I dont think blaming the wheel is a proper way to explain why exposition is dying. Hell, I would be interested to know the % of people who actually read the codex's in their games or people who actually read the books in elder scrolls.

Furthermore, I know reading is a huge issue that should not be overlooked, but when people think of old school RPGs, the amount of reading you actually have to do is very much myth-ified.

 

[Durante]

@Enduin: As you say, quantity is not quality. Also, the great outliers there are the NWN games, and the NWN1 OC is the worst piece of crap Bioware ever produced, even post-DA2, so that's not surprising. I do like the description of DA2 as "stupendously horrendous" though.

Also, since you call out "random screenshots", can you provide any screenshot from a modern Bioware game which shows a nice selection of in-depth, nuanced dialogue options?

I wonder if the successful kickstarter campaigns and hopefully successful games that may come out of them have made some publishers reconsider whether games like eternity etc. Might not but such a bad idea. A 4m dollar budget is not a huge risk for them.

They'd need qualified people to make those games though. Also, from what I gather, large publishers aren't generally interested in (relatively) small projects, even if they are successful and make a profit.

Ubisoft is a nice exception from this rule, at least they greenlit M&M X.

 

[unbias]

Furthermore, I know reading is a huge issue that should not be overlooked, but when people think of old school RPGs, the amount of reading you actually have to do is very much myth-ified.

Compared to now? I think peoples willingness to read through things have dropped substantially, even in video games. The actual story in games now, I think, have quite a bit less reading to it.

Maybe, probably not though. Just going by the numbers up to DAO they certainly weren't lacking compared to their previous titles. I wish this included ME series as well, but I'd say they easily up around Kotor. All I can find is ME had 15k lines of dialog, ME2 had 20k and ME3 had 40k, who knows what that comes out to in words, but easily several hundred thousand for each.

Baldur’s Gate II (2000) – 1,200,000 words
Neverwinter Nights (2002) – 200,000 words
NWN: Shadows of Undrentide (2003) – 200,000 words
NWN: Hordes of the Underdark (2003) – 200,000 words
Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic (2003) – 600,000 words
Dragon Age: Origins (2009) – 900,000 words

Again just going off my own experience I would be willing to bet DA2 would fall somewhere between KotoR and DAO, probably rather close to Kotor in total words. BG2 obviously wipes the floor with all of them, but it's also a much much longer game, easily taking 70 hours for the main campaign alone. Going by How Long to Beat, DAO is about half as long a game yet it only had 1/4 less dialog, that's net positive. Then again DA2 was shorter than DAO by about 1/3 so again the likely amount of dialog and options there.

Obviously this isn't that scientific and took me all of 5 minutes, but it's sure a shit better than random screenshots, and more importantly none of this accounts for quality, but that as well is fairly subjective, though I won't argue that titles like BG2 and PST had some of the best writing the genres ever seen, but in terms of the genre as a whole BioWare's recent offerings, for me at least, have not been far from the aggregate older cRPGs, better in some areas, worse in others, equal more often than not. DA2 is without a doubt their weakest title, but again personally it was more than adequate most of the time, great in a few shining moments, and stupendously horrendous in a few other moments.

Those words include codex, which probably makes up the bulk of their words, dialog word usage I think has indeed dropped, noticeably so.

 

[Ralemont]

I'm also not sure BioWare's forte has ever really been the multi-faceted, nuanced approach to situations like those of the screenshot. A significant portion of their dialogue comes from the companions, and the various permutations of the scenes and dialogues with them. Usually BW likes to take the 2 or 3-way approach to resolve a situation.

For companion dialogues and character development, I don't think they've ever been better. Here's an excellent scene with a rivalry Aveline:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEjs0qft6Io

There's plenty more (Aveline rivalry is my favorite dialogue scene collection. So many ways to define your character and the relationship between the two of you) but my favorite is a scene in which you give her a shield as a gift. She's disgusted by it. Why? Because it's sentimental, and since I sold her dead husband's shield at the beginning of the game (she points out) they've both learned about practicality over sentimentality. Hawke says that she thought Aveline was over first husband, and she says not quite, not all the way, there are some things Aveline isn't willing to forget. To which Hawke responds nastily that she better tell her second husband that (and you had just played matchmaker for them earlier in the game, so this is again reactive to the player).

And again, this conversation is specific to a type of Hawke with a specific type of relationship with Aveline, after making specific types of choices earlier in the game.

That, I think, is the strength of BioWare's writing and where the complexity comes in. They don't do moral choice well consistently, I'll admit that. But there are different sorts of "depth" to dialogue.

 

[Enduin]

Those words include codex, which probably makes up the bulk of their words, dialog word usage I think has indeed dropped, noticeably so.

Good point, the codex isn't that big though most entries are only a couple lines a piece. Even if you go for the extreme and say it accounts for 1/3 of all text in the game DAO would still technically be on par with BG2 since it's again nearly half the length. Plus you could also discount a lot of BG2 dialog since a shit ton of it is simply expository stuff to inform the player of the region, lore and what not that the codex often provides in lieu of that in DAO. It's a fruitless endeavor though. Unless someone wants to literally catalog each dialog sequence in all of these games, BioWare's and others, and parse out the actual number of choices, how many actual unique outcomes they provide and all that crazy shit, there's really no objective way of concluding such a disagreement. Though I would for someone to do all that just to really see how things have progressed and what games actually provided players with real variety and choice in dialog.

 

[unbias]

Good point, the codex isn't that big though most entries are only a couple lines a piece. Even if you go for the extreme and say it accounts for 1/3 of all text in the game DAO would still technically be on par with BG2 since it's again nearly half the length

0_o - I'd have to definitely disagree with that statement.

http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Codex_(Origins)

 

[Durante]

I'm also not sure BioWare's forte has ever really been the multi-faceted, nuanced approach to situations like those of the screenshot.

But that screenshot is from a Bioware game!
Anyway, Aveline is a good choice, her character is one of the few decent things about DA2.

Still, my complaint is about general dialogue complexity and nuance along the main story path, not necessarily companion interaction. Bioware still manage to do that rather well (even though the focus on providing almost any imaginable "romance" in the later games has resulted in some rather forced-feeling railroading).

 

[aborath]

As an aside, I start my own library in every Elder Scrolls game. There's some missions to save the yadda yadda, but that's not important; I have to find the rarest books for my patrons.

Man, if only you could issue library cards to NPCs, and they would come by to browse and check out books. You could even help their kids with research projects. My dream game.

 

[unbias]

Good point, the codex isn't that big though most entries are only a couple lines a piece. Even if you go for the extreme and say it accounts for 1/3 of all text in the game DAO would still technically be on par with BG2 since it's again nearly half the length. Plus you could also discount a lot of BG2 dialog since a shit ton of it is simply expository stuff to inform the player of the region, lore and what not that the codex often provides in lieu of that in DAO. It's a fruitless endeavor though. Unless someone wants to literally catalog each dialog sequence in all of these games, BioWare's and others, and parse out the actual number of choices, how many actual unique outcomes they provide and all that crazy shit, there's really no objective way of concluding such a disagreement. Though I would for someone to do all that just to really see how things have progressed and what games actually provided players with real variety and choice in dialog.

Most of that expository stuff in BG2 was part of the reason that screenshot durant took happened. Dragon Age takes that expository stuff and hides it in books, just like Elder Scrolls. Now dont get me wrong, the codex's and books in Dragon age and edler scrolls are among my favorite if not thee most favorite part of those games, but taking them out of the forefront of dialog does, imo, effect the nuance of the large majority of their story. The game design of Dragon Age(needing be almost entirely voiced) obviously is going to affect Biowares ability to be more nuanced, they are limited through cost and time with the way the game industry has evolved with VA's.

 

[Enduin]

0_o - I'd have to definitely disagree with that statement.

http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Codex_(Origins)

Yeah no. There are 329 codex entries, even if you say each one is 300 words each, which is way off since many are <100 that only results in the codex taking up 98,700 words. So even at it's likely most it's a drop in the bucket. Most likely it's around half that.

 

[Ralemont]

Still, my complaint is about general dialogue complexity and nuance along the main story path, not necessarily companion interaction.

Fair enough. As I said, I think it's hit or miss along the main story. There's also a degree to which the wheel is going to inherently limit dialogue option complexity. That's fair. I was talking about the choices themselves and how they are presented, though, since I think that's murkier. I think the Orzammar segment of Origins is a good example of a layered, complex choice.

The Arishok is another example in DA2: you can actually earn his respect and influence the outcome of the final confrontation. Hell, you can even part ways on amiable terms if you decide Isabela deserves what's coming her way.

Bioware still manage to do that rather well (even though the focus on providing almost any imaginable "romance" in the later games has resulted in some rather forced-feeling railroading).

I'm not sure what you mean by forced-feeling since all romances are entirely optional. I think I'm misunderstanding what you mean by railroading. You can be a dick to everyone. In Inquisition, you can finish the game with just one companion. Dragon Age is habitually better at freedom to interact (or not interact) with companions compared to Mass Effect.

 

[Ralemont]

Most of that expository stuff in BG2 was part of the reason that screenshot durant took happened. Dragon Age takes that expository stuff and hides it in books, just like Elder Scrolls. Now dont get me wrong, the codex's and books in Dragon age and edler scrolls are among my favorite if not thee most favorite part of those games, but taking them out of the forefront of dialog does, imo, effect the nuance of the large majority of their story. The game design of Dragon Age(needing be almost entirely voiced) obviously is going to affect Biowares ability to be more nuanced, they are limited through cost and time with the way the game industry has evolved with VA's.

A more extreme example of this is Loghain's backstory, which was exposited in a separate book and led to a massive imbalance in portrayal of Loghain vs. Alistair. The choice would have been much more interesting if the player knew Loghain was right about all his fears of an Orlais takeover (which he was) and the choice came down to 1. Was he right to retreat at Ostagar and 2. Would Alistair actually make a better ruler?

 

[unbias]

Yeah no. There are 329 codex entries, even if you say each one is 300 words each, which is way off since many are <100 that only results in the codex taking up 98,700 words. So even at it's likely most it's a drop in the bucket. Most likely it's around half that.

I think bioware said over 200k of their words are in non dialog, so around 700k is in VO. 200k is a pretty big chunk, and that isnt even counting how VO reduces the ability to have more nuance in a game.

 

[Enduin]

A more extreme example of this is Loghain's backstory, which was exposited in a separate book and led to a massive imbalance in portrayal of Loghain vs. Alistair. The choice would have been much more interesting if the player knew Loghain was right about all his fears of an Orlais takeover (which he was) and the choice came down to 1. Was he right to retreat at Ostagar and 2. Would Alistair actually make a better ruler?

I don't think the books matter as much as the fact that a major plot line in the game about Cailan marrying Empress Celene was cut, effectively cutting Loghain's fears out from under him by the knees. The game definitely could have done better at telling you of his background and the war with Orlais but it still wouldn't have made up for the fact that his motivations were pretty much nonexistent in the present.

I think bioware said over 200k of their words are in non dialog, so around 700k is in VO. 200k are pretty big chunk, and that isnt even counting how VO reduces the ability to have more nuance in a game.

I'd like to see a source for that, and again it's not a big chunk in comparison to BG2 because DAO is half the length of that game so it still has comparable amount of dialog. And VO limiting nuance is totally subjective, you could very easily argue that the fact that you can actually hear people talking and have real tone and emotion in the dialog adds more depth and nuance. Totally pointless debate since it's all about personal taste.

 

[salromano]

Did anyone manage to rip the 18 min demo before it was taken down?

 

[unbias]

I don't think the books matter as much as the fact that a major plot line in the game about Cailan marrying Empress Celene was cut, effectively cutting Loghain's fears out from under him by the knees. The game definitely could have done better at telling you of his background and the war with Orlais but it still wouldn't have made up for the fact that his motivations were pretty much nonexistent in the present.



I'd like to see a source for that, and again it's not a big chunk in comparison to BG2 because DAO is half the length of that game so it still has comparable amount of dialog. And VO limiting nuance is totally subjective, you could very easily argue that the fact that you can actually hear people talking and have real tone and emotion in the dialog adds more depth and nuance. Totally pointless debate since it's all about personal taste.

http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2010/02/25/news-tidbits-dragon-age-origins.aspx

Very confusing how its broke down, so not exactly sure where the dialog, voiced dialog, and non voiced dialog all fit in. Not sure where all the non character dialog goes or is focused on cause less then 70k of character dialog, but 700k owrth of dialog is confusing.

All that said, you actually think VO'd games have more ability to be nuanced then text based dialog? Really? That, to me, is like saying a movie adds more nuance then a book.

 

[Ridesh]

Did anyone manage to rip the 18 min demo before it was taken down?

https://mega.co.nz/#!sY5mjDpS!HcGZYJf8O2gq7jjKx_98CuJNq78m5BU_fOdCE5R7iPY

 

[Squire]

Did anyone manage to rip the 18 min demo before it was taken down?

It's up on AllGamesBeta, so you should PM Endless.

Edit: Or not!

 

[Ralemont]

I don't think the books matter as much as the fact that a major plot line in the game about Cailan marrying Empress Celene was cut, effectively cutting Loghain's fears out from under him by the knees. The game definitely could have done better at telling you of his background and the war with Orlais but it still wouldn't have made up for the fact that his motivations were pretty much nonexistent in the present.

That's true, and they hastily reintroduced the plotline in Return to Ostagar when you find the Cailan/Celene letters. Loghain sure has fun with that if you bring him.

 

[Squire]

http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2010/02/25/news-tidbits-dragon-age-origins.aspx

Very confusing how its broke down, so not exactly sure where the dialog, voiced dialog, and non voiced dialog all fit in. Not sure where all the non character dialog goes or is focused on cause less then 70k of character dialog, but 700k owrth of dialog is confusing.

All that said, you actually think VO'd games have more ability to be nuanced then text based dialog? Really? That, to me, is like saying a movie adds more nuance then a book.

Good voice work is nothing but nuance. We're not talking about a film adaption of a novel here. Both prose and acting can convey nuance in different ways.

 

[Ralemont]

All that said, you actually think VO'd games have more ability to be nuanced then text based dialog? Really? That, to me, is like saying a movie adds more nuance then a book.

Nuance can be achieved in a host of ways, not necessarily related to the quantity of information. Game of Thrones has done more to humanize Cersei than the books ever did, and part of that is Lena Headey's performance.

 

[AlStrong]

A more extreme example of this is Loghain's backstory, which was exposited in a separate book and led to a massive imbalance in portrayal of Loghain vs. Alistair. The choice would have been much more interesting if the player knew Loghain was right about all his fears of an Orlais takeover (which he was) and the choice came down to 1. Was he right to retreat at Ostagar and 2. Would Alistair actually make a better ruler?

Even so, he kinda comes off as a lunatic. After DA2, I kinda wondered if he had some Lyrium Idol thing.

 

[Enduin]

Back on topic, for those interested, the VA for Anora confirmed on Twitter that she will be back in DAI. I wonder how extensive that will be. I at least want to see how a decade of marriage has benefited her relationship with Alistair, or how she's coped with being abandoned by her Warden consort.

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

Back on topic, for those interested, the VA for Anora confirmed on Twitter that she will be back in DAI. I wonder how extensive that will be. I at least want to see how a decade of marriage has benefited her relationship with Alistair, or how she's coped with being abandoned by her Warden consort.

Oh God, I hope I devestated her.

 

[Kinyou]

Back on topic, for those interested, the VA for Anora confirmed on Twitter that she will be back in DAI. I wonder how extensive that will be. I at least want to see how a decade of marriage has benefited her relationship with Alistair, or how she's coped with being abandoned by her Warden consort.

Hm, maybe it's time to replay the game. I can't even remember anymore what I did, or didn't do with her.

 

[Enduin]

Hm, maybe it's time to replay the game. I can't even remember anymore what I did, or didn't do with her.

You can make her queen, have her marry Alistair, marry her yourself, or depose her. The first one is kind of boring, but maybe it'll turn out interesting. The last 3 though provide far more intriguing possibilities. Though we might not see her at all if you depose her since Alistair, at least initially, imprisons her, though most people were calling for her execution to eliminate her as a threat to the throne.

 

[Crimsonsky]

EA are such idiots for keeping them on. After the delay to Fall 2014 they should have dropped them immediately, there's no reason to ship on them since both PS4 and Xbone have sufficient install bases now for DAI, not to mention PC game sales being stronger than ever. Last gen consoles are just a liability.

You think cutting out two consoles with user bases over 75 million is a wise idea for the next gen ~10 million user base + PC. No sir, from a business standpoint, that just isn't a good move. The logic here is pretty easy to see. Whether or not it is a liability from a gameplay or graphical standpoint is completely superfluous to the bean counters.

I married Anora, and was glad I did after that BS with Morrigan. Had Alistair fight the good fight. It seemed to work out to be the best ending overall.

 

[Renekton]

You think cutting out two consoles with user bases over 75 million is a wise idea for the next gen ~10 million user base + PC. No sir, from a business standpoint, that just isn't a good move. The logic here is pretty easy to see. Whether or not it is a liability from a gameplay or graphical standpoint is completely superfluous to the bean counters.

I married Anora, and was glad I did after that BS with Morrigan. Had Alistair fight the good fight. It seemed to work out to be the best ending overall.

Doesn't Anora give you blue balls?

 

[Ridesh]

By the way, I have the feeling that they will pull a Revan with the Inquisitor.

 

[Jhriad]

Is it just me or is this game not getting a lot of attention.

Interest in the series fell off a lot after DA2 hit. Hell, interest had fallen off among my friends when the details about the direction of DA2 gameplay came out and early screenshots appeared. With EA's continuing saga of rushed or botched releases and Bioware's tarnished reputation I don't think many have a great deal of faith in Bioware being able to and/or having the time to put out the Dragon Age game we want to see.

 

[cripterion]

Interest in the series fell off a lot after DA2 hit. Hell, interest had fallen off among my friends when the details about the direction of DA2 gameplay came out and early screenshots appeared. With EA's continuing saga of rushed or botched releases and Bioware's tarnished reputation I don't think many have a great deal of faith in Bioware being able to and/or having the time to put out the Dragon Age game we want to see.

This game doesn't have our full attention yet, but it's got our curiosity.

Edit : and my preorder.

 

[Renekton]

Interest in the series fell off a lot after DA2 hit. Hell, interest had fallen off among my friends when the details about the direction of DA2 gameplay came out and early screenshots appeared. With EA's continuing saga of rushed or botched releases and Bioware's tarnished reputation I don't think many have a great deal of faith in Bioware being able to and/or having the time to put out the Dragon Age game we want to see.

I don't see them doing too poorly.

They have the monopoly on AAA party RPG with sexytime cutscenes.

 

[ColdRose]

Interest in the series fell off a lot after DA2 hit. Hell, interest had fallen off among my friends when the details about the direction of DA2 gameplay came out and early screenshots appeared. With EA's continuing saga of rushed or botched releases and Bioware's tarnished reputation I don't think many have a great deal of faith in Bioware being able to and/or having the time to put out the Dragon Age game we want to see.

Time, at least, isn't an issue here. They've had three years of full development, and in one of the E3 interviews Mark Darrah mentioned that initial development began after Origins shipped, putting it closer to five years.

Honestly, my take on the matter is that EA was in financial trouble back before DA2 (pretty much common knowledge) and wanted a quick release from a lucrative franchise so BioWare was pressured to get out a 'slam dunk' (very low dev costs v profit). So they siphoned off a bit of the story that was initially going to be Inquisition (which is why so much of DA2 seems barebones, because it was originally intended to be a small part of a much larger story rather than a 25 hour game itself), and phoned-in DA2 while continuing to work on DAI.

That's pretty much a hunch - the only 'evidence' being the Darrah comment that development on DAI was happening much earlier, a dev once saying on the BSN that Hawke was originally going to be the Inquisitor (I definitely remember this but can't track the post down), and a bit of concept art pre DA2 that shows a party including a grey warden, an elven archer girl and a Qunari warrior (plus a mention of Orlais) - none of which had anything to do with DA2 but are, surprise surprise, very much a part of Inquisition. That concept art is here, if anyone's interested. You'll have to scroll down that first post, past a couple of Inquisition images. That art is also on concept artist Matt Rhodes Tumblr, where he describes them as a 'hypothetical cast' for DA2.

Eh, I realise that doesn't have much to do with anything, just something I wanted to get off my chest Regardless, whatever Inquisition does badly, it won't be as a result of lack of time.

 

[ScepticMatt]

They have the monopoly on AAA party RPG with sexytime cutscenes.

So do you think the Witcher games aren't "AAA"?

 

[ColdRose]

So do you think the Witcher games aren't "AAA"?

They aren't party-based. And the sexytime cutscenes are all geared towards straight blokes, giving them pretty limited appeal to gay guys and women.

 

[ColdRose]

Dp

 

[thebloo]

So do you think the Witcher games aren't "AAA"?

Does Witcher have parties?

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

This game doesn't have our full attention yet, but it's got our curiosity.

Edit : and my preorder.

So it's got your attention.