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Dragon Ball Super |OT2| June 12: Judgment Day

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In today's episode Vegeta's basically Beerus' dog. It's embarrassing.

It's pretty obvious where things will eventually go. Vegeta is going to get strong enough to fuck Beerus up something special, with how it's going that will probably be after I have grandkids but it's gonna go that way. Or the fat cat from the other universe works Beerus over, ill be happy with either.

Beerus ain't a good guy after all, he should have blades Bulma into Hell rather than a bitch slap.
 
These threads are getting too full of my character is cool and your character is a wuss posts.

Let's just all hate on Chi-Chi and get along.


*edit* specifically Z and beyond Chi-Chi. Original is fine!
 
It's pretty obvious where things will eventually go. Vegeta is going to get strong enough to fuck Beerus up something special, with how it's going that will probably be after I have grandkids but it's gonna go that way. Or the fat cat from the other universe works Beerus over, ill be happy with either.

Beerus ain't a good guy after all, he should have blades Bulma into Hell rather than a bitch slap.

Haha well in this episode Bulma smacks him after he says she's not some stubborn old woman. Nothing happens though.
 
Goku tells people what to do, but he's always kept away from actually doing things. He fights Buu, but just to say that he can't do it after, just like what happened in the Cell Games.

This is a thing that all Shonen protagonists have to do tho, the dance to not beat the villain immediately. Goku is no stranger to it, as he is dead and resurrected during the saiyan saga, is hurt after fighting Ginew and has to be healed while the rest fight Freeza, and of course has a heart condition during Cell (I've been over how Cell saga is so bad of a buildup for Gohan, who doesn't really do anything during it).

Of course, you could argue that Gohan does it too during Buu, but EVERYTHING ELSE surrounding Gohan during Buu marks him as a second fiddle.

The whole thing about Goku trying to let the kids take charge of Buu could easily be trying to fake out the audience into thinking it is a repeat of Cell, where Goku at the last minute bows out in favor of Gohan.

We're going in circles here. Vegeta states that he's out of shape. You want to deny Vegeta's judgment in spite of nothing in that scene itself supporting that, but I think the idea that it's just a random comment and its connection to later scenes is just coincidence is a pretty baseless assumption.

He is wrong most of the time about other people being weaklings.

It is only after Goku shows up that we actually SEE that Gohan is weaker.

SSJ Trunks punchs barely touches SSJ Vegeta. Base Goten almost hits SSJ Gohan with a stone, and he has to ask him to throw them from further away, and only after some training he starts to easily dodge them. That scene makes Gohan look like a joke.

Ok, but then SSJ Goten spars with Gohan and Goten doesn't actually punch him, while Vegeta gets hit by a kid. So if Gohan is a joke because he didn't get punched by a kid, what makes that of Vegeta, who let a kid punch him? subjoke?


But that's just Gohan's character, not really protagonism or lack of it. Like you mention there, even Kaioshin gives orders to Gohan. In the Cell games, once Gohan takes over, he still ends up basically being moved by other characters, like 16's speech, Vegeta's mistake or Goku giving him the motivational speech. He's always reacting to what people do even when he's pushed as the main hero.

THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT. Toriyama said that Gohan was not adequate to be the protagonist. Why? Because whenever Toriyama writes Gohan he ends up being passive.

Interviewer: And then the Cell arc ended. Did you think that everyone felt you would put Gohan into the leading role?

Akira Toriyama: I intended to put Gohan into the leading role. It didn’t work out. I felt that compared to Goku, he was ultimately not suited for the part.

Again, time and time again during Buu Gohan does nothing. Literally nothing. His super big training is literally sitting still. He does not take a single important decision. He does not do anything out of impulse (like shooting the old kaioshin in the face). Being impulsive is a big part of being a protagonist in Shonen jump, see Naruto, see fucking Luffy. Gohan is nothing like those.

Gohan is not adequate as a protagonist because he is passive.

You're the one saying that. In the manga, what we have is main hero Goku talking about how he could have killed an enemy that supporting character Goku said that he couldn't kill and left in the hand of the next generation.

We are never shown that Buu can be beaten with SSJ3 tho. Showing > telling.

No, this is very important. Yes even if Gohan had his Cell Games power, he wouldn't be strong enough, but that's irrelevant. What I'm pointing out is that his decrease in power leads the other characters to talk about his hidden powers from the Cell Games and tell him to awaken them again. This eventually leads to the Z Sword and the Kaioshin. If you remove Gohan's weakness, telling him to awaken his hidden power wouldn't make sense, so they'd only be mentioned once we got to Kaioshin, removing the build up to it all.

Gohan's weakness, which is first mentioned in the 2nd chapter of the Buu Saga leads directly to his old hidden powers being mentioned again, and afterwards they're once again relevant with Ultimate. I think those plot threads aren't disjointed or a coincidence, but clearly build up and foreshadowing, which couldn't be done if Gohan weren't weaker. I think it's clearly a stronger line than the idea of some aborted Saiyaman Saga (in spite of the lack of foreshadowing or build up to any conflict in those chapters).

This is incorrect.

This is the second time Gohan has had his potential unlocked. It first happened with Guru. However, at that time, there is no mention of Gohan having become weaker than during the previous saga (Saiyan).

So basically this is the second time it happens (DB is super repetitive) but only this time it needed the extra ingredient of weakening Gohan.

Gohan is passive because that's his character. His real interest is basically irrelevant to Dragonball, so he's always just reacting to what happens around him. Even the Saiyaman identity is just a reaction to an earlier scene (having to use SSJ to disguise himself while fighting). Yes, that makes him a very different character from Goku.

And that is why Goku is a better lead and why Toriyama quickly put Goku back in the protagonist role during Buu saga.
 
This thread is getting really embarrassing. What's with the need to constantly shoot down characters? It's just so petty now. We get it, you don't like a certain character.
 
This thread is getting really embarrassing. What's with the need to constantly shoot down characters? It's just so petty now. We get it, you don't like a certain character.

Yeah seriously.

Let's talk about the new episode (even though no subs yet).
 
Let's just all hate on Chi-Chi and get along.


*edit* specifically Z and beyond Chi-Chi. Original is fine!

I don't hate Chi-Chi tho. The character is hilarious at this point. She contrasts so sharply with all the other characters because her priorities are so differemt. All the tiger mom stuff in Z was funny as hell to me. The character is so hilariously unlikable, that it works.
 
The only time Gohan was able to fight was when he lost himself in rage to the point where he was a mindless baby, screaming at nothing.

If only he was a good character, maybe people would like Gohan. ):

What? Nope. During the Freeza fight when Goku was sent into the water, Gohan told Bulma to leave the planet and went back to help his dad, buying time so Freeza couldn't leave.
 
This thread is getting really embarrassing. What's with the need to constantly shoot down characters? It's just so petty now. We get it, you don't like a certain character.

I agree

What? Nope. During the Freeza fight when Goku was sent into the water, Gohan told Bulma to leave the planet and went back to help his dad, buying time so Freeza couldn't leave.

That was hardcore filler
 
This thread is getting really embarrassing. What's with the need to constantly shoot down characters? It's just so petty now. We get it, you don't like a certain character.

Well if the topic's Gohan and I think Gohan's a really boring character, what else am I gonna do! Isn't that was Dragon Ball's all about?

Who would win, Goku or Tuxedo Mask?
 
Okay Toei.

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Last week's episode looked good, this week's looked great and next week's looks like it also is going to look pretty good.

I'm pretty confident now that my theory that they sacrificed episodes in the F arc to get a head of schedule for this arc was right.
 
Last week's episode looked good, this week's looked great and next week's looks like it also is going to look pretty good.

I'm pretty confident now that my theory that they sacrificed episodes in the F arc to get a head of schedule for this arc was right.

Yeah I feel the same way. I don't really blame them since most fans were waiting for the new content above all else.
 
Yeah I feel the same way. I don't really blame them since most fans were waiting for the new content above all else.

Yep, They probably felt "Well we could stay on our rushed schedule or we could throw away some episodes here so the new stuff actually looks great" and I'm totally okay with that since we have an amazingly animated version of F in the form of a movie. Now we just have to hope for some cool choreography in the tournament fights.
 
Yeah I feel the same way. I don't really blame them since most fans were waiting for the new content above all else.

F definitely has that feel that halfway in they were told to cut the number of episodes for the arc to get to new material faster. Like the Ginyu plot that didn't really go anywhere.
 
F definitely has that feel that halfway in they were told to cut the number of episodes for the arc to get to new material faster. Like the Ginyu plot that didn't really go anywhere.

By sacrificing episodes I don't mean cut the number, I mean rush the episodes out with little focus on them so that they could begin working on the episodes of the new arc ahead of their current schedule.
 
When your the richest woman in the world you can make anything happen.

But knowing Bulma she probably made an enhancement ray.

Course the idea of asking Shenron to de-age her (and probably the others) and then have her/them age at the rate of the Saiyans is one of those that'll have her smacking her head in hindsight/realization.
 
Poor 18 will probably have to outlive her grandchildren
unless she just opts out of getting revived when the earth blows up around then.
 
Course the idea of asking Shenron to de-age her (and probably the others) and then have her/them age at the rate of the Saiyans is one of those that'll have her smacking her head in hindsight/realization.

Personally I'm amazed no one has used the Dragon Balls to wish themselves to be stronger than any existing creature. The Z fighters could easily be relevant if they just spend an afternoon getting the damn things. Sure you can say they can only do as much as the one who created them but lets face facts, no way Dende has the power or capability to do anything the Dragon Balls do half the time. Neither did Kami.
 
Hey, nerds, how heavy would a suit have to be for it to literally sink into solid ground?

Dem weighted suits Goku and Vegeta had on musta been heavy as fuck.
 
Gohan's hair has begun to recede.
 
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