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Dragon Ball Super |OT3| Men in pink? How bizarre!

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HeroR said:
That is kinda like saying everyone should have gotten Super Saiyan. And god ki wouldn't be special if everyone and their dog was able to get it. Otherwise, why was Beerus so interested in a Super Saiyan God if anyone species could bake a god in seconds.
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I'm not talking about god ki in the form that it is in the series though, I'm just saying conceptually, before he even got to writing the plot of Battle of Gods.

What I meant is, if Toriyama was going to add a new form of fighting energy to Dragon Ball, then I wish he used that as a way of leveling the playing field between all the characters, instead of further alienating them.

"God Ki" could've been a way of cleaning up the fragmented mess the power rankings became due to Super Saiyan's introduction, and even could've been used to give characters like Piccolo and Tenshinhan unique abilities.

It could've been a way of really shaking up the series, but instead it's basically just another Super Saiyan form that further makes everyone else useless.
 
Kagari said:
I agree with Unknown One in that God ki sidelined everyone much more than the original SSJ did. At least up through the Cell arc the human characters and Piccolo were still actively helping out even if they weren't taking on the big bad.
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I think for me personally, it's the lack of supporitng characters on or around the same level as the protagonist. Beerus ans Whis are great characters, but they're also authority figures with absurd strength and character flaws that have them act aloof about everything or they'd instantly solve the problems. Even when Super Sayians were a thing we got other Sayians added to flesh out the core cast. We aren't getting any other supporting characters that can use god ki as part of the main cast as far as I know, so it feels like the "goku/vegeta solves all the problems show right now".
 
brinstar said:
I'm not talking about god ki in the form that it is in the series though, I'm just saying conceptually, before he even got to writing the plot of Battle of Gods.

What I meant is, if Toriyama was going to add a new form of fighting energy to Dragon Ball, then I wish he used that as a way of leveling the playing field between all the characters, instead of further alienating them.

"God Ki" could've been a way of cleaning up the fragmented mess the power rankings became due to Super Saiyan's introduction, and even could've been used to give characters like Piccolo and Tenshinhan unique abilities.

It could've been a way of really shaking up the series, but instead it's basically just another Super Saiyan form that further makes everyone else useless.
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And conceptually that wouldn't make much sense, since that would raise the question if god ki was so easy to gain and make you so powerful, why didn't anyone else get it.
 
HeroR said:
The humans were basically useless in the Android/Cell Saga. Only Tien did anything remotely meaningful and it ended up meaning shit in the end since Cell still became complete. Only Piccolo was able to keep up for a time, and even he is weaker than a normal Super Saiyan outside of Goten and Trunks. Also, in the Frieza Saga, most of the human cast except for Krillin was dead, so they literally did nothing.
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Piccolo was able to go toe to toe with 17 after fusing with Kami. Piccolo was briefly based on that feat, stronger than Goku and Vegeta for a very short time. If Frost was Frieza strength he wouldn't have been boasting about one shotting him with the Makansosappo (sp?) in the tournament. Piccolo was no Slug, but he was no slug either.

Sibersk Esto said:
Tien was always the most boring z fighter and I'm glad he doesn't show up more.
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ITT - people that didn't watch Dragonball. Tien was the original Vegeta.

HeroR said:
Give me a break. The entire cast surpassed planet buster by the Saiyans Saga, or are we forgetting that Master Roshi blew up the moon by the second story arc of the original Dragon Ball? Cell proclaimed that he could destroy a solar system, yet no one wanted to believe that, and Buu could rip through dimensions by screaming.

It's way too late to start complaining about power creep.
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Its best to use DBZ examples as most haven't seen the original. See above for a great example. Like say Nappa making the entire Earth shake with his under 9,000 power level. Of course you're totally right. Roshi was the first power creep. Going from taking out a flaming mountain to the moon within a couple seasons.
 
Ishida said:
Sometimes I feel I'm the only one in the world who thinks more Super Saiyan transformations are not needed. We are already cruising through Deviantart "original character do-not-steal" levels of bullshit with the multicolored Super Saiyan stupidity.
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This is the trap you fall into when your battles aren't resolved via unique techniques or cunning strategy but rather POWER LEVELS. It's an inherent flaw of Dragon Ball :/
 
I seriously doubt Master Roshi could blow up the Earth. I do doubt the human cast could blow up the Kai planet as well. Each planet has a different power requirement to blow it up or Namek wouldn't wouldn't have taken 5 minutes to blow up after the core was taken out.

The power creep was here to stay since SSJ1, but that doesn't mean it should drastically creep higher. Piccolo was able to keep up in the Android Saga. Now he's regulated to a babysitter/yard fixer. That's just sad. That path started in the Buu saga, but at least he was still a mentor at the time. Where is Piccolo's God Ki power up? He use to be a God after all.

Gohan the only character that could easily bounce back into relevance, got shafted.

I don't even know why Super takes place between the Buu to end of Z time period, when they don't even utilize non Saiyans. Toriyama wanted it to take place between so the supporting cast wouldn't be too old, but he doesn't even utilize them properly at all. Should have taken place after the end of Z so we could have Goku, Vegeta, Uub, Goten, Trunks, and maybe Gohan. Better than having just Goku and Vegeta. At least that would have sidelined the supporting cast properly by having them be too old to participate.

Tien was a far better than Vegeta.
 
Sibersk Esto said:
Yeah, and now that Vegeta is here with his connection to the saiyan race and marriage to Bulma, Tien is completely unneeded.
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That's the problem. The original cast has more backstory than Vegeta. Vegeta is basically the Worf trope of Dragonball. In Super he is getting a ton of character development, which is great; but aside from the awesome bits in the Buu saga dbz Vegeta was basically: bitch about surpassing Goku, some crying, rage, jobbing, and moar jobbing. Yamcha, who has become a meme, has more backstory.
 
Unknown One said:
I seriously doubt Master Roshi could blow up the Earth. I do doubt the human cast could blow up the Kai planet as well.
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He blew up the moon. A shot that wastes the moon might not one shot Earf, but it isn't going to be doing so hot. This would be when no character had a fighting power over 400 and change. I use that number as we know where Goku and Piccolo stood when Radditz arrived and we know Roshi wasn't that powerful. Goku's best shot was just over 900, with a fighting power of just over 400.... so yeah, takes less than 1000 to do the job.

Unknown One said:
Tien was a far better Vegeta than Vegeta.
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Fixed that up for ya.
 
i'm honestly shocked goku doesn't have more outfits than he does

dude should be wearing something different every arc

sell those toys and dlc
 
I know it's Dragon Ball and all but technically Dead Goku should be chilling on King Kai's planet looking down like WTF is going on and how'd this Goku get so damn powerful!
 
hwalker84 said:
I know it's Dragon Ball and all but technically Dead Goku should be chilling on King Kai's planet looking down like WTF is going on and how'd this Goku get so damn powerful!
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I think he would be looking down all excited. Goku would definitely like to fight himself and probably Goku Black as well. King Kai should be alive in the future one since Goku was the one that got him killed in the Cell arc.
 
I wonder if Future Chi Chi is still alive, she lives in the middle of nowhere, Black could've missed her.

on second thought I don't really give a shit
 
Sibersk Esto said:
Tien was always the most boring z fighter and I'm glad he doesn't show up more.
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Maybe if you take personality into account which does matter. I always enjoyed his fights the most because the amount of techniques and the power you could feel from his hits. I've personally found Vegeta the most boring fighter around. Maybe gohan was more boring.
 
Unknown One said:
I think he would be looking down all excited. Goku would definitely like to fight himself and probably Goku Black as well. King Kai should be alive in the future one since Goku was the one that got him killed in the Cell arc.
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When
the KI blast knocked away Black & Zamasu's Deathball away I was secretly hoping it was Goku with a Halo violating the afterlife rules for a split second
 
ManDudeChild said:
Piccolo was able to go toe to toe with 17 after fusing with Kami. Piccolo was briefly based on that feat, stronger than Goku and Vegeta for a very short time. If Frost was Frieza strength he wouldn't have been boasting about one shotting him with the Makansosappo (sp?) in the tournament. Piccolo was no Slug, but he was no slug either.



ITT - people that didn't watch Dragonball. Tien was the original Vegeta.



Its best to use DBZ examples as most haven't seen the original. See above for a great example. Like say Nappa making the entire Earth shake with his under 9,000 power level. Of course you're totally right. Roshi was the first power creep. Going from taking out a flaming mountain to the moon within a couple seasons.
Click to expand...

Piccolo fighting 17 actually made things worse since it allowed Cell to find the androids. So the fight may have been awesome, it was overall a bad thing. Also, someone of Namek Saga Frieza's strength would have been bested by a lot of characters by this point in Super, so it really isn't a bragging point.

Unknown One said:
I seriously doubt Master Roshi could blow up the Earth. I do doubt the human cast could blow up the Kai planet as well. Each planet has a different power requirement to blow it up or Namek wouldn't wouldn't have taken 5 minutes to blow up after the core was taken out.

The power creep was here to stay since SSJ1, but that doesn't mean it should drastically creep higher. Piccolo was able to keep up in the Android Saga. Now he's regulated to a babysitter/yard fixer. That's just sad. That path started in the Buu saga, but at least he was still a mentor at the time. Where is Piccolo's God Ki power up? He use to be a God after all.

Gohan the only character that could easily bounce back into relevance, got shafted.

I don't even know why Super takes place between the Buu to end of Z time period, when they don't even utilize non Saiyans. Toriyama wanted it to take place between so the supporting cast wouldn't be too old, but he doesn't even utilize them properly at all. Should have taken place after the end of Z so we could have Goku, Vegeta, Uub, Goten, Trunks, and maybe Gohan. Better than having just Goku and Vegeta. At least that would have sidelined the supporting cast properly by having them be too old to participate.

Tien was a far better than Vegeta.
Click to expand...

Roshi blew up the moon when his power level was around 180 according to Raditz's scouter in Dragon Ball Z and Goku had a power level of 420 when he fought Raditz. So planet buster was weak sauce even by the Saiyan Saga since the moon is about two-thirds the size of Earth. And the only reason Frieza failed to one-shot Namek is because he held back too much. This is the same person who destroyed Planet Vegeta, a planet ten times the size of Earth, with his index finger in his weakest form.

Tien has no real personality besides being serious.
 
Unknown One said:
I think he would be looking down all excited. Goku would definitely like to fight himself and probably Goku Black as well. King Kai should be alive in the future one since Goku was the one that got him killed in the Cell arc.
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future goku is also probably looking down at how fucked up his earth is and training his ass off in the afterlife

present goku with ssj2 gohan protecting the earth and everything all nice and happy managed to reach ssj3 with that crazy ass afterlife training

there's not enough goku in dragon ball super. future goku needs to fuse with present goku to fight black goku.
 
DiipuSurotu said:
End of Z outfits please!

x2tqaku.jpg
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I'm down
 
StaticJam said:
Something something different presentation and style between DB/Z
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Have you seen Dragonball? If you have, I don't have to answer the question.... if you haven't....

Tien starts off his apperances in Dragonball as a hustler with Chaosu. Saving villages from their own monster. He enters the 22nd tournament as a deciple of the Crane school, Rival of Roshi and kicks the living shit out of everything. Going so far as to break Yamcha's legs and unlike someone did NOT job against Goku in their first fight. He eventually turns on his former master and gradually starts helping the others (eg: when they diverted the lava). It's never the same one note "gotta beat goku grrr". He event goes so far as to kill himself after Chaosu's sacrifice against Nappa. Who didn't need to get possessed by an evil space wizard to learn. He was even less stubborn during death, allowing King Kai to teach him, while even Piccolo didn't. He did a doubling down on sacrifice during Cell games, while Vegeta was still stuck in static. Vegeta's massive amount of character development in Super doesn't change his one note for all of dbz. This is all off the top of my head. So yeah... Vegeta Super >Tien dbz >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Vegeta dbz > Mr Popo
 
I'm just now catching up with Super (SSG Goku vs. Beerus right now, but I've seen both movies). Even though I'm sure it's been brought uo a gajillion fucking times before...

How the FUCK did they literally decide on the name SUPER SAIYAN GOD SUPER SAIYAN for the blue hair dawgs?!?

Like are you fucking kidding me? It's as simple as this, red hair "base" god - Saiyan God. Blue hair - Super Saiyan God. How did they not go with that?! And that would fit the theme of Super being almost a reboot too.

Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan is so dumb I hate even saying it. It's so bad I almost think it's Toriyama making a joke about DB always being about the next level, but it doesn't work when you make it a central pillar of the series!

Arg. Anyway. Loving Super. Still not in love with the animation, but I'm getting used to it. I do hope it gets better though. Can't wait to see what this Goku Black stuff's all about. Should I just skip the Frieza saga if I've seen the movie? I heard Super's version of it is bad.
 
Anth0ny said:
future goku is also probably looking down at how fucked up his earth is and training his ass off in the afterlife

present goku with ssj2 gohan protecting the earth and everything all nice and happy managed to reach ssj3 with that crazy ass afterlife training

there's not enough goku in dragon ball super. future goku needs to fuse with present goku to fight black goku.
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He shall be named kakoku.
 
HeroR said:
Roshi blew up the moon when his power level was around 180 according to Raditz's scouter in Dragon Ball Z and Goku had a power level of 420 when he fought Raditz.
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Technically, we never saw Roshi's power level for his actual "fighting form", when he gets slightly more buff, like how he looked when he faced Tenshinhan. And the form that he used when he blew up the moon was even bigger. Back then, the Kamehameha also was almost a 2x multiplier.

Tien has no real personality besides being serious.
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He also had honor as a pretty big part of his inherent personality, even though it went against everything he learned from his master, which eventually leads to their conflict when they attempt to cheat during the finals against Goku. Of course, due to parting ways with his master, he immediately drops his former arrogance and tries to befriend Roshi's disciples, which I guess makes him too much of a "good guy" too quickly, compared to how long Piccolo and Vegeta took.

He also seemed to be wary of Vegeta even after he started living on Earth although they're pretty much ignoring that in the recent productions. Tenshinhan being the first to think that Vegeta might be betraying them in the Super version of RoF is the only reference to that so far through all of the recent material.

But, really, what hurts his popularity compared to the later rivals is that he never really got a power up that put him on high tier again after Goku surpassed him for the first time. So, he never got to be portrayed the powerhouse during Z itself. Piccolo was the strongest while Goku didn't arrive and got the two fusions, giving him relevance up to the Cell Saga, and Vegeta is hanging around there even nowadays, but once Tenshinhan was surpassed thanks to the true sacred water he never really got anything to place him on Goku's level again or actually give him some narrative focus for a while. And that's on top of being absent during all of Namek due to being dead.

Durden77 said:
Like are you fucking kidding me? It's as simple as this, red hair "base" god - Saiyan God. Blue hair - Super Saiyan God. How did they not go with that?! And that would fit the theme of Super being almost a reboot too.
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Probably because when SSJ God was created they had no idea they'd create SSJ Blue. The SSGSS name is pretty pointless anyway. It's only used in merchandising. It's never mentioned in the show or movie, and only mentioned in the manga to point out how silly it is.
 
Durden77 said:
I'm just now catching up with Super (SSG Goku vs. Beerus right now, but I've seen both movies). Even though I'm sure it's been brought uo a gajillion fucking times before...

How the FUCK did they literally decide on the name SUPER SAIYAN GOD SUPER SAIYAN for the blue hair dawgs?!?

Like are you fucking kidding me? It's as simple as this, red hair "base" god - Saiyan God. Blue hair - Super Saiyan God. How did they not go with that?! And that would fit the theme of Super being almost a reboot too.

Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan is so dumb I hate even saying it. It's so bad I almost think it's Toriyama making a joke about DB always being about the next level, but it doesn't work when you make it a central pillar of the series!

Arg. Anyway. Loving Super. Still not in love with the animation, but I'm getting used to it. I do hope it gets better though. Can't wait to see what this Goku Black stuff's all about. Should I just skip the Frieza saga if I've seen the movie? I heard Super's version of it is bad.
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That's not what they ever call it in the anime.
 
Unknown One said:
That's just sad. That path started in the Buu saga, but at least he was still a mentor at the time. Where is Piccolo's God Ki power up? He use to be a God after all.
.
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Come to think of it, unlike Super Saiyan, there's no reason tapping into God Ki would be an exclusively Saiyan trait. It's hoping against hope, but, I wonder if the others may eventually...

And are the Saiyans the only beings in the universe with some sort of reality warping cheat code to create a god too? Why?
 
LordOfChaos said:
Come to think of it, unlike Super Saiyan, there's no reason tapping into God Ki would be an exclusively Saiyan trait. It's hoping against hope, but, I wonder if the others may eventually...

And are the Saiyans the only beings in the universe with some sort of reality warping cheat code to create a god too? Why?
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saiyans are actally a race created to be potential gods of destruction

yes i just made that up
 
I've always figured the same way Dragon Ball characters were slowly given less screen time, the same is going to happen to the majority of the Z cast. Roshi/Yamcha/etc were always around in Z but not as much.

At this point in Z, it's Gohan/Vegeta/Krillin in Namek, with Krillin clearly getting less and less focus. I don't think F.Trunks will stay permanently, but I do foresee the next arcs with new/recent characters and not old characters.

With the history of villains becoming good, I would bet money Zamasu or Black join up.
 
I wish Piccolo caught up to the Saiyans, I don't care what assn Toriyama has to pull something from, but it'd be nice to see him stay relevant during major fights.
Edit: Also, RoF outfit SSB Vegeta is perfection, he should keep that outfit.
DBS-Vegeta-SSJ-God-SS-Master-Stars-Piece-1.jpg
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LordOfChaos said:
Come to think of it, unlike Super Saiyan, there's no reason tapping into God Ki would be an exclusively Saiyan trait. It's hoping against hope, but, I wonder if the others may eventually...

And are the Saiyans the only beings in the universe with some sort of reality warping cheat code to create a god too? Why?
Click to expand...
Because they are the superior warrior race of the universe. Vegeta was right all along.

Although...didn't Frieza also use god ki in his golden form?
 
I feel like blue was explained adequately enough, at least by DB standards. It sounded like the key was raising your ki but keeping it contained or whatever leading to a higher quality ki and better control of it.

I do hate the blue form though. I wish red stuck around longer (minus the super slender body).
 
I'm sure it's already been brought up before when the episode first aired, but man was this part amazing. Was completely blown away by how dynamic and crazy the animation was. This arc has been really good for this kind of stuff so far. I know we'll probably never have any one episode be perfectly animated due to Toei's animators constantly swapping in and out on projects due to packed schedules, but I at least hope we get a few more moments like this along the way.
 
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