1st Course
Member
This is why I hate handheld gaming. Compromise on the graphics, controls, screen size, IQ and pretty much everything just for the sake of portability. Seems like the view distance and Fov on 3DS is worse than PS2 too.
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Dragon Quest VIII announced for 3DS
- Thread starter Zeyphersan
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This is why I hate handheld gaming. Compromise on the graphics, controls, screen size, IQ and pretty much everything just for the sake of portability. Seems like the view distance and Fov on 3DS is worse than PS2 too.
So 3DS version doesn't use cell shader for the protag at the overworld? (It actually makes sense though if you consider how low the resolution is).
Well if SE really try hard I think they can do better considering the 3DS's capability. However I'm kinda skeptical if SE would even try to squeeze maximum out of 3DS (FF explorer was really meh, for even 3DS standard).
Toadthemushroom
Member
We know Square Enix/TOSE will take the quick and dirty route of doing a direct port of the Unity version from iOS/Android, now that it exists. Much like how they treat FFIII/FFIV now that (to them) a solid foundation of the game exists for modern platforms. Anything that doesn't get the royal treatment that FF Type-0 and Kingdom Hearts got (and to a degree, FFX remaster) seems to be treated like this regardless of platform.
I seem to remember Square Enix stating they are using Unity from now on for all their iOS/Android games going forward because it makes porting so much easier between those platforms, and to other platforms.
I'd say it's a budget thing more than a handheld thing, there have been far better ports on anything portable this generation.
Storage is a big problem though on handheld devices, some publishers might not want to pay extra per unit produced for higher capacity game cards, for example, and there are app size limits on the iOS App Store and Google Play. The iOS App size limit was raised to 4GB from 2GB this year. Games like idolm@ster Shiny Festa got around it by bundling content as "free" DLC -- each game weighs in at 3.4GB after downloading the rest of the game's content after launching the app.
The storage problem is also why Sony's early (laudable) aims to Vita -- for it to be a portable platform for AAA content -- wouldn't have worked out for most titles.
You are in luck then, there´s a good possibility that there´ll be even less handhelds to choose from next gen.
Well it would have looked better but HD remasters don't make as much money as portable remakes/ports.
To be honest not sure why they're bothering considering they already released the iOS/Android version. I imagine this game's sales will be down quite a bit from VII.
Personally, I'll take a 3ds version I can take with me everywhere over an HD version I have to sit in my couch and okay. Grinding through a 70 hour JRPG on a console is no longer appealing to my personal tastes. I like having these types of games on my 3ds because I can take them everywhere.
Eolz
Member
The view distance is actually better than PS2. We'll have to wait for FOV (you can see the camera is slightly tilted on 3DS). But yeah, IQ is obviously worse.
Handheld gaming isn't about graphics though
and that's partly why the Vita failed
killatopak
Gold Member
See? What I did I tell you?
There are downgrades but it's unlike the 3DS where almost every port is the inferior version.
I'll still buy the game if they incorporate some aspects of the IOS/Android stuff into the 3DS version like not waiting for the alchemy pot to cook your items and instead combines the stuff immediately. I got tired playing on my phone because the game's a battery hog.
That's exactly like the Vita situation. Every game in the Jak, Ratchet, Sly Cooper, God of War, and MGS collections on Vita were all heavily downgraded from the PS2 versions.
Not all of those you mentioned were "heavily downgraded", but that's not really the subject here.
N30RYU
Member
They all saw 50% reductions in framerate. That's a heavy downgrade.
Kubera Leez
Member
While I also enjoy being able to invest in a 70+ hour JRPG on the go, there is something appealing about playing on the big screen, but in this case, I won't be saddened by the loss of the big screen.
Just bring it to the US SE!
Spiritwalker
Member
Definitely buying this on day one assuming it launches in EU. I'll certainly miss the glorious emulator graphics I'm used to, but it's a tradeoff I can live with.
Yea! I'm fully not against a huge rpg on the tv. Heck, I just played Witcher 3 on ps4 for 6 hours straight yesterday. But, to me, turn based RPGs that are very grindy and simple in nature to play are best fit for handhelds. And I think developers know that. 3ds JRPGs do not require a lot of development resources, that's why there is a lot of them. My JRPG backlog on 3ds is crazy (especially considering Altus loves to sell the games for dirt cheap when doing a sale).
My favorite era of gaming is the PSOne rpg. Those graphics do not bug me. When it comes to these types of games, I'm attracted by the number scaling and spread sheet nature of min maxing my characters and using the battle system strategically to over come challenges. I do not need ps4 level graphics for that.
No one is asking for Square Enix to remake Dragon Quest VIII with realistic visuals that rival today's AAA blockbusters. Comparing an upcoming version of a game to existing versions is common in enthusiast discussions. Dragon Quest VIII is a very pretty PS2 game, but it's also 10 years old. Seeing how it transitioned to another platform is entirely normal. I'm sure most people would prefer even the downgraded 3DS visuals to a hyper realistic Dragon Quest VIII.
Implying that 16-bit sprite visuals would be unappealing seems out of place. I can see 16-bit demakes of the 3D Dragon Quests being a popular thing. Unlike a port with worse visuals than the original, a 16-bit demake would be an artistic choice. It also fits with the nostalgic, "archaic RPG elements" that are common with the series.
A lot of collection ports on Vita generally aren't good compared to the original versions, but it's important to remember they're not actually PS2 -> Vita ports. They're PS2 -> PS3 -> Vita ports. The seemingly one exception to that is Final Fantasy X|X-2 HD Remaster, which is probably most relevant to this discussion given the publisher involved.
Unfortunately for DQVIII 3DS, it might find itself in a similar situation to the majority of PS2 games on Vita. If it really is PS2 -> iOS -> 3DS, I can see a lot of issues existing that otherwise wouldn't if it was straight from the source.
Even if the visuals were closer to what they were on PS2, I imagine sales would be down from DQVII anyway. One is a remake while the other is a port. The mobile version damages some of the appeal, but eh, if Dragon Quest X 3DS could survive I'm sure VIII 3DS will.
His issue with handhelds isn't that there's a tonne to choose from. His issue is that they're not well equipped to handle versions of home console games. Saying there's only going to be one handheld, from a company that releases weaker machines than they could, solves none of that.
Femmeworth
Banned
This is getting away from my main point that the 3DS isn't as capable as the PS3.
Gonzo The Great
Banned
Looks hideous. I skipped out on Xenoblade Chronicles 3D for the same reason. The novelty of playing console ports on a handheld wore off for me in the GBA era.
uncredited male
Member
My God, it looks like a PS2 game running on a 3DS.
Toadthemushroom
Member
Well there goes the remaining interest I had in this. 3D makes such a big difference when playing these kinds of third person games on 3DS.
It brings the worlds to life, but the doubling of resolution makes the image feel much more "roomy" to my eyes. Can't do without it.
It brings the worlds to life, but the doubling of resolution makes the image feel much more "roomy" to my eyes. Can't do without it.
Well typical SE I guess
I believe DMQ2 also didn't have 3D support, right?
They probably want better graphics over 3D (surprised they're doing nothing for the N3DS though... I wonder if it'd even be possible to have 3D on N3DS).
It could be like MH4U in that respect, where performance is noticeably better on N3DS.
Brawly Likes to Brawl
Member
Running at a consistent 30fps is probably the reason they decided to drop 3D.
Maybe they aren't even targeting those care about 30 fps..
Toadthemushroom
Member
It depends. Some games that don't support it, like that One Piece Unlimited World (I think that's its name) and FF Explorers game, use 4x antialiasing, which is the trade-off most games that do support 3D forego when 3D is on.
For example, all of Capcom's MT framework games, bar Ace Attorney 5 which forces 4x AA in 3D mode, disable 4x AA when the 3D is on, and enable it when the 3D is off.
In the cases of FF Explorers and One Piece, one factor why they didn't have 3D would be time constraints, or perhaps a lack of people on the team who specialise in delivering a good 3D effect.
If Dragon Quest VIII 3DS employs antialiasing I doubt they'd have disabled 3D in pursuit of better visuals, especially given the screenshots we're seeing now, but we'll see.
*Edit It could indeed be in pursuit of a locked 30fps like Brawly Likes to Brawl mentioned above.
xxbrothawizxx63
Member
Really not feeling this anymore. Happy for the new content but the lack of effort to do the game justice visually is really killing it for me. I play with 3D at max at all times so not supporting it is definitely a big loss for me.
Hate the pixel grouping the 3ds has to do in 2D. Softens the image too much and makes everything look muddy.
Also, where in the world is the NEW 3ds support? This is pretty much a perfect candidate for the increased CPU ability.
If they can recreate the ridiculously expansive world of Xenoblade in 3D with a few polygons missing here and there and lower texture quality, they should be able to port DQ8 perfectly.
I'm guessing they don't want to put the effort in...
Hate the pixel grouping the 3ds has to do in 2D. Softens the image too much and makes everything look muddy.
Also, where in the world is the NEW 3ds support? This is pretty much a perfect candidate for the increased CPU ability.
If they can recreate the ridiculously expansive world of Xenoblade in 3D with a few polygons missing here and there and lower texture quality, they should be able to port DQ8 perfectly.
I'm guessing they don't want to put the effort in...
vagabondarts
Member
No 3D? I'm not interested then. I can already play this game elsewhere.
Not like it was leaving Japan anyway.
Not like it was leaving Japan anyway.
Can you play the new content elsewhere? And with the localisation already existing with the PS2 version, would it be far-fetched to think it would actually have a good chance of being released in the west?
vagabondarts
Member
No, but ask yourself, do you really want this? It's a downgrade even from the mobile port.
Initially, when I saw the screenshots I thought, "Oh, there are obvious visual concessions made because they have to process the stereoscopic 3D."
Except that's not the case. What other concessions have they made?
With a 30fps lock and orchestrated music, this is an upgrade of the mobile port. Not sure if you played the iPhone version, but it is horrible in the frame rate department, even on iPhone 6.
casablanca
Member
Adding Morrie is a great idea !
DQ8 is my favourite jRPG ever, i even tried to play the iOS version ..
It's a shame this looks like a crappy port
DQ8 is my favourite jRPG ever, i even tried to play the iOS version ..
It's a shame this looks like a crappy port
Megalosaro
Banned
....why did they make this for 3ds if there is no 3d?
PumpkinSpice
Banned
Cause it's by a wide margin the most popular hardware in Japan, and arguably the only viable hardware to release games on in that country any more.
Dragon Quest Monsters 2 doesn't support 3D either.
The philosophy behind making that an iOS game was so messed up. It would have been so much better if it was a widescreen landscape game. It could have been the definitive version, but they fucked it up for the sake of "accessibility."Adding Morrie is a great idea !
DQ8 is my favourite jRPG ever, i even tried to play the iOS version ..
It's a shame this looks like a crappy port
vagabondarts
Member
Oh, didn't know this had the orchestrated music.
That's a plus.
I'm not interested in this port anymore and can't be bothered clutching on to some hope that it will get localized.
I hope everyone who imports has a blast, though. The original game is amazing.
PumpkinSpice
Banned
I think at this point maybe we should hold off on judging the visuals until we at least get a trailer.
Yes there's less tree distance, no we don't know how much that impacts things. We don't know anything about performance, especially framerate. All we're going off of are photos of screenshots on a poster.
Yes there's less tree distance, no we don't know how much that impacts things. We don't know anything about performance, especially framerate. All we're going off of are photos of screenshots on a poster.
If the battle speed is faster than the US PS2 version I played, then yes I would want it.
I don't really care about visual downgrades. I played and loved the first four DQ games on mobile which don't exactly hold a candle to DQVIII's graphics.
Toadthemushroom
Member
Wouldn't surprised me if the 3DS version was locked at 20fps, given the iOS/Android versions were on far more capable hardware. Sigh...
They should have included a mode for both usage patterns, I think. The portrait mode was actually excellent, I could easily play the game with one hand whilst casually waiting around, I was impressed and it certainly made the game fit its host platform well. But that's not the only usage pattern people have when consuming content on a smart device. Any developer worth their salt to care about important things like UX (user experience) and UI would have made it so when you rotate your iPhone, the game changes orientations and the UI.
Given how poorly the iPad was supported (it literally scaled the entire game up, controls and all, rather than making use of that device's extra real estate) it's pretty clear where TOSE's priorities lie (or rather, didn't).
They should have included a mode for both usage patterns, I think. The portrait mode was actually excellent, I could easily play the game with one hand whilst casually waiting around, I was impressed and it certainly made the game fit its host platform well. But that's not the only usage pattern people have when consuming content on a smart device. Any developer worth their salt to care about important things like UX (user experience) and UI would have made it so when you rotate your iPhone, the game changes orientations and the UI.
Given how poorly the iPad was supported (it literally scaled the entire game up, controls and all, rather than making use of that device's extra real estate) it's pretty clear where TOSE's priorities lie (or rather, didn't).
vagabondarts
Member
I played those too, but those were pretty great ports of the ds games. The NES game ports were hit and miss.
This looks like butt and DQ8 deserves better.
mickagau33
Member
Well I am not surprised by the absence of 3D effect. The only DQ game with a real 3D effect on the system is DQ 7 (although it is pretty crappy outside of battles). DQM1 has barely any 3D effect (it was less than minimum 3D even with 3d slider pushed to the max), DQM2 has no 3D (outside of monsters encyclopedia), DQ TRythm has no 3D. The DQ IP is very "family friendly" in Japan I think so maybe they didn't want to bother and make some extra effort. I am disapointed but it didn't prevent me from enjoying those 3Dless games so...
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