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[Error]

Your post about it being the worst scenario in the recent history of the series, and all the people agreeing to that - together with the promised change in gameplay mechanics - gives me new hope and fills me with some anticipation for DQ9. Good thing my shiny new DSL arrived 3 days ago.

I think as stand alone games 5 and 7 has the best scenarios in the series. 5 specially is REALLY epic and I love it, 7 is awesome too. DQ7 basically takes Chrono Trigger Time Travelling theme and expands a lot upon it and some of the surprises later into the game will leave you like "holy shit!!"

I liked the scenario in 3 but to really enjoy it you have to play DQ1 and DQ2. I felt it was awesome and a really nice way to finish the Loto/Erdrick Trilogy

 

[ethelred]

Well, except RPGs are the best damn things in gaming.

Can't argue with the man when he's right!

I don't think so personally. The job system in DQ7 is far too cumbersome and has way too many useless skills to it. The system itself is a great idea but the implementation is just so sloppy. I was really glad that they went with a different system for DQ8 and I was generally pleased with it for the most part. DQ6 was a bit better than DQ7 but it's still a bit sloppy overall.

I wouldn't call it sloppy. Just because there's extraneous stuff in there, that doesn't make it sloppy. If anything, I appreciated the depth and complexity of it -- the way the special classes were unlocked, the way class levels increased separately from gaining experience, the fact that while there are some useless skills there are also a TON of useful ones that can allow for plenty of unorthodox strategies... and of course, the monster classes, which just open the game up to a whole new level entirely.

DQ8, if anything, is trimming the fat from the DQ series polishes the core gameplay to the point that it's near perfect in emphasis and execution. It could use some expansion on some of the ideas but that's what later games are for (well, DQ10 hopefully).

You know, DQIX may make some pretty nice improvements, too.

It also steps up the presentation and characterization overall (characters and scenarios are probably the biggest attraction to DQ for me) as well which is one of the big things I love about DQ8.

The characterization was better in VIII than in a lot of its predecessors, but I'm not sure that I'd say the overall scenario was. V, VI, and VII especially all had extremely good scenarios. That's not a knock on VIII, which I greatly enjoyed, but the three immediately preceding were, I feel, superior. In part I think that's because of the setting -- VI and (again, especially) VII had spectacular worlds.

DQVII felt like the Chrono Trigger scenario done right.

 

[PC Gaijin]

Does anyone know why they finally switched from "Warrior" to "Quest" for the 8th installment? Did they get the rights to the name back, or did the previous rights' holder's name expire, or did they have the rights all along but just prefer to use the DW name?

SE got the trademark a couple of years ago. Before that it was held by a PnP RPG. Incidentally, there used to be an RPG construction set for the Atari 8-bit home computers in the mid-80s that was also called Dragon Quest.

 

[Avalon]

Honestly? Start with the remake of the original, give it a little slack and see if you want to give 2 remake, 3 remake and other games a try.
:lol I like how Error's "DQVIII is okay, but not the best" post gets a rally of "OMG THAT IS WHY I HATE THIS GAME" behind it.

For the longest time, I had this idea of what Dragon Quest was. Very traditional, linear, cliche characters, story and very uninspired gameplay. When I finally played Dragon Quest VIII, pretty much everything I imagined was there sadly. I figured if this was what Dragon Quest was, I want nothing to do with it.

Error's post made it seem like the series was more then that.

 

[bluemax]

For the longest time, I had this idea of what Dragon Quest was. Very traditional, linear, cliche characters, story and very uninspired gameplay. When I finally played Dragon Quest VIII, pretty much everything I imagined was there sadly. I figured if this was what Dragon Quest was, I want nothing to do with it.

Error's post made it seem like the series was more then that.

Honestly I had the same opinion of the series, and DQ8 for me was a lot like Error's post on the previous page. It was boring, empty, and tired. Sure you had a massive overworld, but the only reason to explore was to find chests which I felt were haphazardly placed. Admittedly maybe this is because I didn't get super far

Spoiler

first attempt got to where you need whatever it was to free the boat, second pickup I got from there to the Argonia bizarre.

That said Error's posts/topics on 3-7 make them sound pretty interesting in terms of story/scenario I just don't know if I can put up with old school encounter rates and combat systems enough to play them.

 

[Gruco]

I dont really see how DQ8 "slaughters" the other DQs in gameplay gruco.

I don't know what to tell you...I gave you like half a dozen reaons. You don't have to agree or anything but I at least hope you're not confused by the position at this point :/

Well, I think the limitiations to weapons were a good thing. Like I said the biggest problem with 6 and 7 is that they were all about getting to the top of the pyramid and there were no limitations to the systems that made the customization get interesting. Either way though, the weapon thing is a really minor point, as you could carry around multiple ones and swithc mid-battle. All it really preventing you from doing is abusing the MP-boost from staffs, and maybe made you manage your money a bit better.

I agree that icy pulse was annoying, but keep in mind 1) the best bosses in the game didn't use it (Dragovian trials) 2) You could still work around it and 3) even with icy pulse boss battles were more interesting than the bikill->magic guard -> attack -> heal strategy that characterized basically every singe other boss in the entire series.

Honestly I wouldn't think DQ8 would be quite that much better if it weren't for the Dragovian trials, but they managed to bring out the best in every single component of the game. Those were the best optional fights in any RPG that I can think of.

I think at the end of the day, you just enjoyed the variety in the old system, while I saw the new one as more lean and efficient, and didn't see any benefits to all the junk they cut out.

 

[Shouta]

I wouldn't call it sloppy. Just because there's extraneous stuff in there, that doesn't make it sloppy. If anything, I appreciated the depth and complexity of it -- the way the special classes were unlocked, the way class levels increased separately from gaining experience, the fact that while there are some useless skills there are also a TON of useful ones that can allow for plenty of unorthodox strategies... and of course, the monster classes, which just open the game up to a whole new level entirely.

The way classes leveled and the special classes are things I don't have issue with. It's mostly the extreme number of skills that had basically no function or were useless. Useless skills will always exist but a designer really should try and keep it to a minimum.

Speaking of skills, I hated the fact that the class combination skills were basically unattainable unless you did the jobs in a specific order. Annoyed the hell out of me that I couldn't get Blade Dance or something because I did the job order in the reverse direction. =|

The characterization was better in VIII than in a lot of its predecessors, but I'm not sure that I'd say the overall scenario was. V, VI, and VII especially all had extremely good scenarios. That's not a knock on VIII, which I greatly enjoyed, but the three immediately preceding were, I feel, superior. In part I think that's because of the setting -- VI and (again, especially) VII had spectacular worlds.

DQVII felt like the Chrono Trigger scenario done right.

I said the characterization and scenarios for DQ in general are what attract me to the games.

I agree though, the scenarios for DQ6 and DQ7 are fantastic and better than DQ8. However, I think they lacked the correct presentation and execution to make it as good as it could be. DQ8 manages to nail it so well despite being a very straightforward scenario. It's just so enjoyable watching all the characters interact and still get the classic DQ gameplay.

 

[ethelred]

The way classes leveled and the special classes are things I don't have issue with. It's mostly the extreme number of skills that had basically no function or were useless. Useless skills will always exist but a designer really should try and keep it to a minimum.

Well, as I said, I don't think they're all that useless. There's a lot of skills in the game that may seem useless if you're just playing in a straightforward manner, but as I said, I think there's a lot of room in the game for a player to approach battles with more unorthodox strategies, and that's mostly based off using skills that DO have balanced uses, they're just more off the beaten path.

Speaking of skills, I hated the fact that the class combination skills were basically unattainable unless you did the jobs in a specific order. Annoyed the hell out of me that I couldn't get Blade Dance or something because I did the job order in the reverse direction. =|

Are you sure? I don't think that's correct. I am almost certain that when I played DQVII a few months back, I had one character do dancer first and then warrior (or fighter), and did it in reverse with a second character.

I agree though, the scenarios for DQ6 and DQ7 are fantastic and better than DQ8. However, I think they lacked the correct presentation and execution to make it as good as it could be. DQ8 manages to nail it so well despite being a very straightforward scenario. It's just so enjoyable watching all the characters interact and still get the classic DQ gameplay.

I don't know. As I said, I agree that DQVIII did the best job in the series at characterization -- there was an enormous measure of personality in the game's characters, even minor ones. But I didn't have any problems at all with the presentation or execution in DQVI or VII... aside from some, uh, pacing issues at a couple points in VII. Nothing that knocks either of them down too badly -- not when the strength of their overall scenarios (VII especially) is taken into account.

 

[Error]

pretty sure order doesnt matter when trying to get hybrid skills in 7

I dont know there is A LOT of useless skills in 8 too, I dont understand how the game suddenly gets free pass. hell what's point of fisticuff anyway?

 

[Gruco]

Magic Burst and Mircacle Moon sounded awesome. I never went the fisticuffs route, but it's skills never would have been worthless, as you can't realistically have all of those and all the weapon ones at the same time in a normal playthrough. And you'd have more money for other stuff, I guess. Money management is always an issue.

Some skills in 8 were definitely better than others, but by the end you'd have like 10-15 per character. Especially when compared the the endless streams of skills in 6 and 7, I think almost all of those of those had a practical purpose.

 

[Sagitario]

Sorry to derail the thread but since the GAF RPG crowd is in here and I don't think my query deserves its own topic, I'll ask for a recommendation here:

I just finished Okami and I want to move to the next game in my backlog:
The choices are 4 RPGs:
- Shin Megami Tensei III: Nocturne
- Shin Megami Tensei: Devil Summoner
- Baten Kaitos Origins
- Tales of the Abyss

Which one would you people recommend me to start now? Since my gaming time is being reduced because of college and work, the easier and shorter the game, the better (I guess that practically disqualifies Nocturne, I'm actually afraid of the game, maybe too hardcore for me )

Sorry again for being off-topic...

 

[Error]

Devil Summoner is easy and short pretty straighfoward and linear too.

however... go with Nocturne, game might scare you at the beginning because yes it's pretty rough until you realize your party members are nothing more than pawns to help you in battles if you go with THAT mentality in Nocturne you shouldnt have major problems with the game but it's still a tough game!

 

[Ruas]

Baten Kaitos Origins

 

[Avalon]

however... go with Nocturne, game might scare you at the beginning because yes it's pretty rough until you realize your party members are nothing more than pawns to help you in battles if you go with THAT mentality in Nocturne you shouldnt have major problems with the game but it's still a tough game!

I would go with Nocturne as well. Such an amazing game.

What do you mean Error? It isn't until end-game were the main character really starts kicking ass. Until then, his major strength is being able to choose his weakness/strength and you'll be relying on your teammates for just about everything

Spoiler

That and focus + Lunge for massive damage!

.

 

[RevenantKioku]

You can't get attached to the demons in SMT. You've gotta be ready to ditch them (via fusion) at any moment for more power.

 

[Error]

I would go with Nocturne as well. Such an amazing game.

What do you mean Error? It isn't until end-game were the main character really starts kicking ass. Until then, his major strength is being able to choose his weakness/strength and you'll be relying on your teammates for just about everything

Spoiler

That and focus + Lunge for massive damage!

.

what I meant is to not grow attached of a certain demon since he could end up being a serious liability later on.

they are pawns you discard the one that doesnt help you for other that could help you... at least that was how I played nocturne.

 

[Avalon]

what I meant is to not grow attached of a certain demon since he could end up being a serious liability later on.

they are pawns you discard the one that dont help you for other that could help you... at least that was how I played nocturne.

You can't get attached to the demons in SMT. You've gotta be ready to ditch them (via fusion) at any moment for more power.

Okay. :lol

That's a good warning. Well, as long as you fused them they are in there... somewhere

Spoiler

at least that's how I justified fusing my cute little demons. ;_;

.

 

[JayDubya]

Classic Dragon Warrior / Quest games are awesome.

 

[PantherLotus]

Dragon Warrior was my first RPG--I got it with a subscription to Nintendo Power.

From the first time you leave your castle, you're testing limits, and in my opinion that's what RPGs are really all about. How far can you go without dying? How many steps can you take before turning back and healing up at the castle? Every new enemy, every new creature, every new encounter...each was a cherished moment that I will never forget. I remember my first GoldMan, my first Wyvern (hey, it's a baby dragon!), my first metal babble. Each time you can go just a little farther and hopefully get some new armor and a new weapon.

Dragon Warrior (the original) is to RPGs what The Hobbit is to Fantasy literature. Might not have been the first, definitely not the best...but somewhere in there is a tale of perfection, a mood so perfectly presented that only the most closed minded and ambitionless children would ever not appreciate the opportunity to go on a quest. It is a game that determines what type of person you are. Do you want more? Are you pretty sure you can make it to the next town without dying? Good luck.

Now, DWII and III were magnificent, but infinitely harder and more complex. They were awesome games that built up from the original, both in scale and depth. I missed V and VI (not in the US), but VII was an old-school RPG lovefest that had been missing since FMV reared its loading-time head.

I really loved VIII, but I completely agree with the assertion that it felt generic. The characters were great, the voices magnificent, but the story was just so...bland and fairly uninspiring. I never felt the sense of wonder that I usually get from RPGs. That sense that I am out to discover the world, find its innermost secrets and conquer its greatest treasures. Still, it was exactly what was expected and delivered in that regard. There is little wonder why the Slime might be the most recognized character in Japan other than Mario.

Anyway, thanks for letting me reminisce, but I completely disagree with the OP.

 

[coldvein]

Dragon Warrior was the first game I ever played. I used to go to my best friends' house and play DW1 with his grandmother instead of hanging out with him. She just made me do all the level grinding. I loved it.

 

[My Arms Your Hearse]

Sorry to derail the thread but since the GAF RPG crowd is in here and I don't think my query deserves its own topic, I'll ask for a recommendation here:

I just finished Okami and I want to move to the next game in my backlog:
The choices are 4 RPGs:
- Shin Megami Tensei III: Nocturne
- Shin Megami Tensei: Devil Summoner
- Baten Kaitos Origins
- Tales of the Abyss

Which one would you people recommend me to start now? Since my gaming time is being reduced because of college and work, the easier and shorter the game, the better (I guess that practically disqualifies Nocturne, I'm actually afraid of the game, maybe too hardcore for me )

Sorry again for being off-topic...

Nocturne is not hard at all on the default setting, though you will likely die on a few bosses if you aren't using a guide... a lot of them have gimmicks that you probably won't be ready for the first time you fight them. It's also the best game on your list by a wide margin.

 

[Avalon]

Nocturne is not hard at all on the default setting, though you will likely die on a few bosses if you aren't using a guide... a lot of them have gimmicks that you probably won't be ready for the first time you fight them. It's also the best game on your list by a wide margin.

Let's be honest now.

Taking everything into account... Demon managing, multi-tier dungeons with lots of different puzzles and little gimmicks, story related decisions (some really tough choices in the game), and the press-turn system. Nocturne is a hard game, not impossible but fairly challenging throughout.

 

[cicero]

And it's people like you who can't understand that someone might have a different opinion than yours who turn me off.

I never dismissed or didn't understand his ability to have a differing opinion to my own, I merely stated that he had no taste. Maybe you can explain your little comment here about that given your own apparent applied logic. Why aren't MY subjective opinions about a game, or more to the point, someone else's opinion of that game, also protected as that person's subjective opinions apparently are??? I never spoke to his overall ability to have any differing opinion, I merely called his taste into question concerning this one. Why isn't that "differing opinion" equally protected?