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[SystemBug]

No they're not. When the reviewer says this, a picture of a guy with a head the size of a ping-pong ball and never-ending shoulders and arms appears on screen. Male characters get their own dose of exaggeration that wouldn't surprise me if it rubs some people the wrong way (though I personally think that would be nonsense).

Personally I think that sexualization doesn't necessarily mean sexist. Just because a character or person has a sexualized appearance or does pin-up poses doesn't make it derogatory towards the gender.

But when a character is spreading her legs like the female knight was in the video, it does bring up some questions. Like why?

 

[FINALBOSS]

So excited for this game.

That's all I have to say really.

 

[rakkadakka]

I know the art is a problem for many, and I would be lying if I said it didn’t bother me. Understanding the influences, both artistic and thematic, helps me appreciate Dragon’s Crown even though I don’t want to see undulating breasts every five seconds. I can look beyond them and lose myself in the mechanics and combat. Hopefully, you’ll give it a chance.

Love hack and slash, love loot games, love beat em ups..

Can't get past the art style unfortunately.

 

[Mexes]

Nice break away from the old bread and butter style. Will add this eventually.

 

[Jacksonlee]

Sigh, I most certainly do not!

lol. in a jap culture, the term "gay" wouldn't be the first on their minds.

 

[Jay Sosa]

But I found its over-exaggerated art style alienating and gross in its depiction of women

hahaha oh boy.

I hope whoever wrote this is female.

While it scales back the complexity that defined Princess Crown and Odin Sphere, its focus on deep, varied fighting mechanics make it one of the best beat-em-ups released for any platform in recent years.

How in the world is Odin Sphere complex?

Who writes this stuff?

 

[mattiewheels]

As with his God of War: Ascension review, Gies once again lets his hypersensitivity to political correctness taint his outlook on what is considered a high-quality and enjoyable game by the majority of reviewers.

Really disappointing, again.

Edit: LOL it's not even Gies. Does he have a protege now?

Wow. I'm all for separating this controversy from the merits of the game itself, but this is kinda embarrassing.

 

[Dresden]

I love how points are deducted due to the games art style being "offensive" but having hookers strip for you in GTA, or murdering innocent civilians with guns will conveniently fly over the heads off most critics. Thats not offensive at all. Girls with abnormally sized breasts are.

Trying to shame one viewpoint by associating with it the baggage of the industry as a whole is pretty low brow.

 

[Deleted member 125677]

Okay, I'm sick and tired of this crap.

Ladies....ladies, listen. Listen to me please. There is a big difference between having a moral opinion that you want to express on an issue that is highly contentious in this industry and demographic, and jumping on a high horse because you know it will get you a mountain of attention on the internet which will always have an equally charged, contentious response to this topic.

On which side of the fence you fall on is up to you, but don't be surprised when gamers, a male dominated spectrum, is going to respond aggressively if you come across as a hit fisher. There's no point complaining about comments sections because you will never be able to account or accommodate for dickheads. PLEASE, just be very careful with the language you use when discussing a moral criticism, because people will call you out for it.

Jesus fucking Christ, get over yourself

 

[Endo Punk]

I want this game now!!!

Truth, in a nutshell.

Busty women need love too Can't believe people were hating on her and the amazon! And ignoring the overtly masculine male characters lol.

 

[Thoraxes]

Definitely surprising reviews (in a good way!), but I won't be picking this one up because I got SMT IV to beat, and Xillia, Pikmin 3, and Mario and Luigi DT soon. And I have no friends that own a Vita or PS3 for super fun co-op.

However, it's at least now on my list of "Shit to buy when there's a B2G1 free" sale. Cheaper price and actual time to play it will be a much better purchase for me.

 

[Deified Data]

Personally I think that sexualization doesn't necessarily mean sexist. Just because a character or person has a sexualized appearance or does pin-up poses doesn't make it derogatory towards the gender.

I'm just going to keep quoting this until the end of time. Sexualization isn't objectification. I'm going to make the assumption that all the playable characters are equally soulless and bland, and therefore equally objectified. People choose to take offense to one form of objectification over another - the game is filled with absurd caricatures but only the females' secondary sexual traits receive any attention.

I try not to hold the gaming community to too high a standard. It's only just starting to become aware of negative portrayals of women in games, completely oblivious to the fact that requiring women to remain chaste and asexual is every bit as sexist as insisting they prance around in thongs and pasties. One step at a time, I guess.

 

[semiconscious]

The appropriate way to address this is by adding notes that some people may be offended by the content in the review. You don't actually score the game based off of how offensive its content is. Can you imagine if films did this? "A Clockwork Orange's main character approves of rape, torture, and drug use. This is a horrible moral example for today's youth. 4/10." It's just a moronic way to review any piece of media.

this. only more so: that simply a character's physical appearance (whether 'offensive', or just not suiting one's own personal taste), can, in & of itself, somehow be considered a huge negative when determining a game's score is just ludicrous. worth a mention, certainly, but grounds for significantly lowering a game's score? i don't think so...

i mean, were we talking about, say, a main character who was consistently behaving obnoxiously, i could maybe begin to cut a reviewer some slack. but based solely on physical appearance? no way. atlus is being too kind here ...

 

[Yasadril]

still 50/50 on buying on release or waiting for cheaper price

 

[Rollo Lawson]

And that's why reviews are an utterly and completely pointless exercise.

They're not. The 1 star reviews on Amazon are often just as helpful as the 4 and 5 star ones because they point out problems. Different perspectives, pros and cons are always helpful.

 

[Kensuke]

No they're not. When the reviewer says this, a picture of a guy with a head the size of a ping-pong ball and never-ending shoulders and arms appears on screen. Male characters get their own dose of exaggeration that wouldn't surprise me if it rubs some people the wrong way (though I personally think that would be nonsense).

Personally I think that sexualization doesn't necessarily mean sexist. Just because a character or person has a sexualized appearance or does pin-up poses doesn't make it derogatory towards the gender.

It's the combination of those pin-up poses and that, according to the reviewer, the female NPC's are completely helpless and in need of rescue. I think everyone agrees all characters have exaggerated muscles/proportions, but it really seems certain females are portrayed differently.

 

[TheChillyAcademic]

Here ya go.

Give him a haircut and some glasses and I'm there!

 

[Iorv3th]

I agree, if you make a horrendous looking game (like state of decay, a great game no doubt but terrible to look it) you get no points docked but if your character design is deemed exploitive by some clown then you get a ton of demerits?
It's crazy, polygon to me has some great writers and articles but there reviews are buttcheeks

What is going to get more hits for them?

 

[homulilly]

It's the year two thousand and thirteen and people are still literally using the hilariously wrong "but mean are just as objectified!" argument. Jesus fucking christ.

 

[GoddyofAus]

Dudes trying to shut down discussion by framing women being critical of problematic depictions of women in games as being attention seekers or "hit fishing" is really condescending and dishonest. It's a really really gross trend and is far, FAR creepier than anything in Dragon's Crown or any other game.

I like how you formulate that articulate yet misled response to his gif and yet the best you can manage for me is a foul mouthed emotional response. And you wonder why there is a fair amount of skepticism when feminism is brought up.

 

[meltingparappa]

I love being told exactly what my entire gender lusts after, and how I hate all women because of it.

Who knew the artistic craft of caricature had so much power.


Polygon is so insightful they might as well write an artist's statement for each one of Vanillaware's games from now on.

 

[TheChillyAcademic]

lol. in a jap culture, the term "gay" wouldn't be the first on their minds.

Explains a lot about Japanese guys I know lol

 

[blackflag]

Dudes trying to shut down discussion by framing women being critical of problematic depictions of women in games as being attention seekers or "hit fishing" is really condescending and dishonest. It's a really really gross trend and is far, FAR creepier than anything in Dragon's Crown or any other game.

Yeah but learn to respond in a more mature manner. This isn't 4chan.

 

[Guitarmy]

If you don't like Polygons reviews, don't read them. It's that easy.

 

[GuardianE]

They're not. The 1 star reviews on Amazon are often just as helpful as the 4 and 5 star ones because they point out problems. Different perspectives, pros and cons are always helpful.

I should have clarified. Viewing reviews as entirely subjective renders them pointless, in my opinion. I don't look at an Amazon star rating and make my purchase based on that. I'll read the different reviews and focus on ones that appear to look at the product objectively.

The other ones are garbage that shouldn't exist.

 

[Shosai]

I'm just going to keep quoting this until the end of time. Sexualization isn't objectification. I'm going to make the assumption that all the playable characters are equally soulless and bland, and therefore equally objectified. People choose to take offense to one form of objectification over another - the game is filled with absurd caricatures but only the females' secondary sexual traits receive any attention.

No one's saying that it is. You'll notice that there are countless other games with sexualized depictions of women that don't raise ire. I'll leave it to you to try and figure out why that is, but it has something to do with context.

 

[IHaveCandy]

Do people not realize games like Dragon's Crown are depicting a world and time when women equality wasn't really a thing? When I look at Dragon's Crown, it reminds me of a time setting where women were just expected to be a house wife and take care of the husband. The few women that aren't like that are supposed to stand out more because of that fact. Criticizing that seems a bit odd. It's like watching Troy and being upset that the women aren't fighting along the men, and are stuck doing the cooking, cleaning and fulfilling sexual desires. It's not saying that is how things should be. It's being somewhat accurate to the time it is representing.

 

[Vire]

All Dragon Crown really makes me do is roll my eyes in disgust.

Why? What's the point?

You are better than that video games....

 

[ultron87]

The little montage in the Polygon video review of the NPC women throughout the game actually did a lot to convince me that the whole thing is pretty messed up.

 

[Abriael]

Yes, we want to know your personal tastes so we can factor that into reading a review. Try as you might, they're always going to influence a review, so the best thing to do is be as transparent as possible about your feelings and trust your readers to come to their own conclusions. I don't want a reviewer to tell me they had a fun time playing a game when they really didn't.

The fact that Mario annoys you does have something to do with the quality of the game. It's a feeling that not a lot of people share. On the other hand, a lot of people do. If you were articulate in your writing, you'd be able to explain why, so that even the people who disagree can understand your views.

Or you can hide your views, whichever.

There's a large difference between hiding my personal taste (which I don't), and telling my readers that a game is bad when objectively it isn't.

The second case misleads the reader (even more so if you hold the responsibility of going on metacritic) in believing something untrue, and it's something a reviewer should avoid.

The fact that mario annoys me doesn't have to do with the quality of the game. It has to do with my personal taste. I strongly dislike cutesy, overly comedic characters. It's the same for Animal Crossing.

Yet both franchise (exactly like dragon's crown) have very strong objective qualities that should (and do) overshadow my personal taste.

This doesn't mean I won't mention my taste: When I feel it's relevant I will, but I won't tell my readers the game is bad because of it. Simply because it isn't.

This is even more serious (and rather disgusting) when it isn't a matter of pure personal taste, but a clear (and openly declared) political agenda.

Ultimately a review editor should not assign a game to review to someone that has open preconceptions about elements of it, unless it's well know that that writer is able to look beyond said preconceptions.

In this case the writer wasn't able to, and the review editor probably gave her the game to review intentionally in order to generate controversy and traffic, which I personally find disgusting.

 

[homulilly]

I like how you formulate that articulate yet misled response to his gif and yet the best you can manage for me is a foul mouthed emotional response. And you wonder why there is a fair amount of skepticism when feminism is brought up.

You might get better responses if you stopped acting like a condescending creep.

 

[Loudninja]

You know what?

I am going to get this now,I wasn't interesting but now I am.

 

[JDoe2014]

Dudes trying to shut down discussion by framing women being critical of problematic depictions of women in games as being attention seekers or "hit fishing" is really condescending and dishonest. It's a really really gross trend and is far, FAR creepier than anything in Dragon's Crown or any other game.

Yeah but learn to respond in a more mature manner. This isn't 4chan.

did you actually just respond to a criticism of tone policing with tone policing?

is this the real life

 

[Architechnophile]

And that's why reviews are an utterly and completely pointless exercise.

I'm not offended by Polygon's review, but I have been offended by reviews in the past. There is a layer of objectivity that is expected. A review is not an opinion piece. I concede that all articles have spin. It's impossible to not have outside influences shape your views and your writing. At the same time, using a review in a publication as your own personal blog is shameful. I've seen reviewers admit that they write reviews as if "they're trying to sell a product to a friend." Stuff like that just makes me shake my head.

I don't see anything pointless about sharing opinions. That's how we learn about each other, and how we come to appreciate (or dislike) things that we're not familiar with. It can reveal dimensions (pun intended) about art that we never previously considered.

A review is literally a person's opinion about a game. So claiming that they're not opinion pieces is going to be a really, really hard sell.

Since this review is clearly not "trying to sell a product to a friend", that's neither here nor there.

 

[FINALBOSS]

I'm seriously wondering why people who are obviously not buying the game, come in here just to bitch? You guys interested in just seeing yourself talk, or what?

 

[Vire]

There's a large difference between hiding my personal taste (which I don't), and telling my readers that a game is bad when objectively it isn't.

The second case misleads the reader (even more so if you hold the responsibility of going on metacritic) in believing something untrue, and it's something a reviewer should avoid.

The fact that mario annoys me doesn't have to do with the quality of the game. It has to do with my personal taste. I strongly dislike cutesy, overly comedic characters. It's the same for Animal Crossing.

Yet both franchise (exactly like dragon's crown) have very strong objective qualities that should (and do) overshadow my personal taste.

This doesn't mean I won't mention my taste: When I feel it's relevant I will, but I won't tell my readers the game is bad because of it. Simply because it isn't.

This is even more serious (and rather disgusting) when it isn't a matter of pure personal taste, but a clear (and openly declared) political agenda.

Ultimately a review editor should not assign a game to review to someone that has open preconceptions about elements of it, unless it's well know that that writer is able to look beyond said preconceptions.

In this case the writer wasn't able to, and the review editor probably gave her the game to review intentionally in order to generate controversy and traffic, which I personally find disgusting.

Objectively the game isn't bad?

What the fuck are you talking about? How can a game be objectively good?

 

[schwabdizzle]

Polygon has to get those clicks......those sly sons of bitches.

 

[-COOLIO-]

it's crazy, before clicking this thread you know that some review is going to have a lower than average score and cite the portrayal of women as a problem (which is fine), and you know it's going to derail the thread (which is pretty stupid).

it all happened like clockwork.

 

[erpg]

All Dragon Crown really makes me do is roll my eyes in disgust.

Why? What's the point?

You are better than that video games....

Creativity, mostly. It's open to criticism of course, but Kamitani is allowed to draw what he wants to draw.

He likes exaggerated bodies and food porn.

 

[sechsterangriff]

Eh but is having huge muscles and a tiny head meant to be sexually stimulating for the potential audience it's catered to?

Some of the designs are so exaggerated to the point that I honestly think that they're not really meant for that, and are there more for satire or an "exaggerated cliché" if you will. The Sorceress certainly fits your point, but the others...

Even so, like I said, personally I don't see anything inherently wrong with sexualization. I do appreciate it to a point, and I have some girl friends who definitely appreciate it also.
What tickles me the wrong way, much more than looks, is the depiction of characters in context of games that take themselves in a way more serious manner.

 

[homulilly]

Yeah but learn to respond in a more mature manner. This isn't 4chan.

There's a certain point when someone's head is so far up their own ass that it's plainly obvious there isn't going to be any honest discussion. In the future I'll just ignore this kind of thing.

 

[Riposte]

I'm going to call everyone who disagrees with me a creep.

 

[Endo Punk]

All Dragon Crown really makes me do is roll my eyes in disgust.

Why? What's the point?

You are better than that video games....

I prefer video games to stay rock and roll and don't give a fuck what the man thinks.

 

[Vire]

Creativity, mostly. It's open to criticism of course, but Kamitani is allowed to draw what he wants to draw.

It's not creativity, it's pandering to the lowest common denominator.

 

[TheChillyAcademic]

I'm seriously wondering why people who are obviously not buying the game, come in here just to bitch? You guys interested in just seeing yourself talk, or what?

Well, write, technically.

 

[Kyoufu]

I don't mind boobs in video games, but I actually did comment on Twitter about the art being a little over the top when I was playing the game.

It didn't effect my enjoyment of the game, but I can see why the Polygon reviewer was bothered by it.

 

[Alchemy]

Buying this to support a good game from a good developer, apologize if some people don't like handsome muscle men and find it offensive.

 

[bon]

All Dragon Crown really makes me do is roll my eyes in disgust.

Why? What's the point?

You are better than that video games....

What's disgusting? The large breasts? There's more to the game than that.

 

[Riposte]

It's not creativity, it's pandering to the lowest common denominator.

Based on what facts are you saying this?

 

[IHaveCandy]

Mixed hotspring scenes. Can you imagine the outrage. Oh, and Raijin:

I think it was this magazine cover that got the ball rolling on that.