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[Solid Samus]

Because it's not "premium" when it's a sub-optimal choice for the genre.

30fps is a suboptimal choice for any genre but I can look past it if a game is playable and boasts enough solid content and sheen to warrant a purchase. I can understand not being satisfied with 30fps in a racing game. I don't understand people on GAF who let pretty little things like this justify such rude and shitty attitudes toward developers every time they perceive some slight against their tastes and expectations.

 

[rapha1985]

I'm pretty happy with locked 30fps. Different strokes. And this game looks phenomenal.

This!

30fps locked is smooth enough to me.

 

[QaaQer]

Solid 30fps = choppy, got it.
Evo have chosen visuals, get over it.

Won't happen here, but hopefully the OT will have an EATCHILDREN zero tolerance policy, cuz yeah, its getting old.

 

[BloodMoney]

Some people don't like being stuck at the mercy of developers who make bad decisions.

Some people should probably go pitch, design, finance, develop, and produce their own games... that way they can have exactly what they want.

 

[NullPointer]

The reason to moan about it is precisely because there will be no other way to play it. Some people don't like being stuck at the mercy of developers who make bad decisions.

Haha, bad decisions.

Forza is 60fps, and gets lambasted with each release because of the static time of day and baked lighting and lack of surface types and racing conditions and its lack of AA and more cartoony look from the way it deals with color.

GT6 is 60fps but outside of the driving model itself most other aspects of the game are sterile, including environments and audio and AI. It also drops frames all the time in cockpit view and dithers to hell and back again.

Its always a trade-off. And if you find the tradeoffs in GT and Forza to be more to your liking those games still exist, along with Project Cars. So you're good. That leaves plenty of room for other games to try something different.

 

[djplaeskool]

Welp.
I guess some of you guys will be missing out.
Can't wait to get my hands on this.

 

[Kayant]

It is choppy, if you your perception is used to 60FPS. Play a 60FPS game and switch the FPS on the fly to 30 - you can do this on PC. The difference is night and day.

If you did not experience this for youreself, you will not understand. It's that easy. You can discuss and argue all day or you can just go there and experience the difference, get used to 60FPS. And then we can talk again.

And I have am not saying the difference between the two isn't large but I feel the experience isn't choppy.

Choppy as hell when compared to 60fps, 120fps without strobing and even more so compared to 120 with strobing

I get your point however when playing a game it doesn't feel the same as it does in this test.

Anyways those are my views on it. 60fps will always be greater than 30fps but truly locked 30 can be smooth.

 

[OldKingDoran]

But we also didn’t want to compromise the gameplay in any way, shape, or form. 

but you already did

Lol. Pretty much.

 

[JayEH]

They made the wrong choice.

 

[Cizeta-Moroder]

Premium experience

...

at the working man's framerate. There's a slight inconsistency.

 

[Milestoned]

And here we go, another thread about how slideshow-ish DRIVECLUB is going to be at 30 FPS. It's not like we already had approximately 10 threads about this.

 

[Glittering Crux]

But we also didn’t want to compromise the gameplay in any way, shape, or form. 

but you already did

Seriously. There's nothing "premium" about it. I wish the developers would just be quiet because it's embarrassing each time they open their mouths in an attempt to PR the frame rate issue.

 

[Skyzard]

I want that nice lighting in more games, faster. Whatever it takes.

Spoiler

(preparing to signal) fu watch dogs

Hopefully it's at least locked well to 30.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

I am picturing a world where I am okay with 30 FPS racers to be like some kind of post-apocalyptic movie timeskip where I'm thirty years older and going "Yeah I guess zombies are a part of life now, whatever."

 

[mrmickfran]

30fps isn't smooth, it's a fucking slideshow.

Spoiler

I'm sorry

 

[Bundy]

No, to take part in the discussion.

Yeah, I can see your "discussion".
You like 60fps and think 30fps is shit.
We got it already in the last 5000 Driveclub threads.

 

[Oersted]

What in the hell is a "premium experience"?

A marketing buzzword.

 

[Principate]

Yeah, I can see your "discussion".
You like 60fps and think 30fps is shit.
We got it already in the last 5000 Driveclub threads.

This is a thread that has the framerate in the freaking title. A better question is precisely what is your "discussion" in regards to moaning about moaning.

 

[RK9039]

60fps is too fast, this isn't Wipeout or a Sonic game. Premium 30fps will allow this game to become a realistic driving simulator.

 

[Orayn]

30fps is a suboptimal choice for any genre but I can look past it if a game is playable and boasts enough solid content and sheen to warrant a purchase. I can understand not being satisfied with 30fps in a racing game. I don't understand people on GAF who let pretty little things like this justify such rude and shitty attitudes toward developers every time they perceive some slight against their tastes and expectations.

I'm not trying to be rude or shitty, I just wish they'd be a little more forthright. They opted for 30 FPS over 60 to achieve the graphics they wanted because they really wanted to emphasize the visuals. My being able to understand the motivation behind it doesn't mean I have to agree with their priorities, and the "premium" language just makes me roll my eyes because it feels like a distraction from the legitimate grievances some people have.

Evolution Studios is not a bad developers and Driveclub probably won't be a bad game. That doesn't make their every decision sacrosanct, and people can still criticize the choices they make without it being an attack or a temper tantrum.

 

[NullPointer]

This is a thread that has the framerate in the freaking title. A better question is precisely what is your "discussion" in regards to moaning about moaning.

Well its not much of a discussion when its 60fps or nothing. Its like debating climate change with a creationist.

So PGR and Forza Horizon and Motorstorm weren't great racing games, but would have been if (all else being equal) they had been 60fps? Can there be no good racers at a locked 30fps? Thats impossible? Is that the discussion point?

 

[three_muffins]

Im looking at this from a consumer point of view and have i absolutly no knowledge of programing games. I read about the framerate and the debate is always between 60 fps and 30 fps. Sometimes a compromise needs to be made and the compromise is always 30 fps instead of 60 fps.

Why is there onl these two options? Would a locked 40, or 50 fps be an option too?


[edit] Thank you very much for the explanation. That clears things up for me.

 

[Solid Samus]

Im looking at this from a consumer point of view and have i absolutly no knowledge of programing games. I read about the framerate and the debate is always between 60 fps and 30 fps. Sometimes a compromise needs to be made and the compromise is always 30 fps instead of 60 fps.

Why is there onl these two options? Would a locked 40, or 50 fps be an option too?

tvs generally refresh the image 60 times a second

lets say you have a second split into 60 smaller units of time. if you update an image every other one of those units of time, each image is being displayed the same amount of time (every 2 frames) from the last, displaying a smoother and less jittery image than if you tried to time 40 or 50 of those image refreshes

 

[Orayn]

Im looking at this from a consumer point of view and have i absolutly no knowledge of programing games. I read about the framerate and the debate is always between 60 fps and 30 fps. Sometimes a compromise needs to be made and the compromise is always 30 fps instead of 60 fps.

Why is there onl these two options? Would a locked 40, or 50 fps be an option too?

30 and 60 divide evenly into the 60Hz refresh rate used by NTSC and PAL60 displays. At 60 frames per second, a new frame is displayed every time the screen refreshes. With 30 FPS, each frame is displayed twice. Anything else means having to display frames an unequal number of times, which leads to "judder" that decreases the perceived smoothness of whatever you're showing.

 

[justsomeguy]

We have known for a long time that it is 30 FPS. Why do people keep complaining? If it is such a deal breaker ignore the game and move on and let those of us actually looking forward to it discuss it without making every single thread turn into a discussion about the Frame rate. There has been tons of 30 FPS racers and a lot of them were great. It is really not that big a deal.

The op talks heavily about 30fps. If you don't like 30fps discussions stay out of threads where it's a key part of the op.

 

[Betta Lines]

60fps is too fast, this isn't Wipeout or a Sonic game. Premium 30fps will allow this game to become a realistic driving simulator.

 

[Duallusion]

And that Canada video proved to me they've made a choice I'm perfectly happy with.

 

[Aizu_Itsuko]

Bullshit. It was a compromise. If the hardware could do 60 they would.

True.

But what they are saying is also true since they are working within the limits of a closed platform. It's always a trade-off between complexity and other aspects (and I'm not talking only about graphics). They think 30fps works the best for their game and I like what I have seen so far.

I would choose 60fps if possible though, but I'm ok with 30fps as long as it is stable. In fact, stuttering annoys me no matter how high the framerate is.

 

[biggersmaller]

I don't consider 30fps choppy

Neither do I. Neither do many. Amazing how many sit back folding their arms and sticking their noses in the air at the very idea of someone not minding locked 30 FPS.

No matter how powerful the platform, console games will be largely be 30 FPS due to a desire to produce as amazing of visuals as possible. It's not a cynical marketing practice, but a legit trade-off in prioritizing development resources.

I often push my PC to the maximum it can graphically as-long-as I maintain 30 FPS.

 

[Solid Samus]

I'm not trying to be rude or shitty, I just wish they'd be a little more forthright. They opted for 30 FPS over 60 to achieve the graphics they wanted because they really wanted to emphasize the visuals. My being able to understand the motivation behind it doesn't mean I have to agree with their priorities, and the "premium" language just makes me roll my eyes because it feels like a distraction from the legitimate grievances some people have.

Evolution Studios is not a bad developers and Driveclub probably won't be a bad game. That doesn't make their every decision sacrosanct, and people can still criticize the choices they make without it being an attack or a temper tantrum.

Yeah, I know, but so many of these posts come off as attacks and tantrums and there's some threadshitting thrown in for healthy measure too. IDK, the way I see it if 30fps is so offputting, talk it up, express your discontent, and don't buy the game if the demo or past experiences validate that feeling. People shouldn't talk like they've already played the shit and can purport without a shadow of a doubt that it can only be a terrible decision to the overwhelming detriment of the game.

 

[TyrantII]

Spoiler

This 30 vs 60 crybaby bullshit is getting a bit old. I remember the days when running graphically intensive PC games at 30 fps was an achievement, and most people were perfectly happy playing a game like Half-Life in the 20's. Too many spoiled little kids who think the $400 or $500 hardware their mother purchased them is as capable as a $3,000 PC. Most threads are littered with these bullshit comments.

Driveclub looks amazing and as evident through KZ:SF, 1080p locked at 30fps, provides solid gameplay.

The funny thing is a lot of PC brethren are not running everything at 60 locked or above. Plenty make their own call on graphics vs performance vs investment.

The 60+ or bust crowd is a very, very tiny minority (and I doubt many of them are as loyal to their cause either when MSAA comes to shove.). Like most niche minorities, they're very loud and insecure.

 

[Bundy]

This is a thread that has the framerate in the freaking title. A better question is precisely what is your "discussion" in regards to moaning about moaning.

Dat super smooth premium of 30 fps.

Spoiler

Nope not remotely

The question goes back to you.

 

[Eusis]

I'm just left wondering if the trade offs will REALLY be worth it, as you gain more hardware power you struggle more to find stuff to squeeze in wile still being at around 30fps, at least of stuff that matters (you can always go for insane super sampling/AA but that'll be too subtle for what you get.)

Honestly, I'm interested in trying it out JUST to see how good it's supposed to look for aiming at 30fps and higher graphical fidelity, and by this I mean within the context of playing for myself and not just seeing select screens/videos. I feel part of the reason this always gets so heated is that after awhile a lot of people probably just don't really pay that much attention to the nice visual effects and just want to drive, and while similar can be thrown at 60fps that at least has an immediate impact on gameplay feel. Plus we arguably have the likes of Mario Kart, GT, and mainline Forza setting a standard, but I guess that may be like how CoD sets a standard in our heads for FPS fps (and there's why I've been trying to avoid capitalizing it as often) yet we all know the vast majority of shooters on consoles have been 30fps instead.

 

[Danny Dudekisser]

No point in "pushing visual fidelity" if you're just going to make it look ugly with a choppy framerate.

I don't love 30fps in a racer, but come the fuck on.

 

[Rogue_Ledr]

30 FPS is fine, so long as it doesn't dip below that.

I would've greatly preferred 60 FPS, but I can deal with 30 so long as the game looks as stupendous as it does.

 

[BloodMoney]

I often push my PC to the maximum it can graphically as-long-as I maintain 30 FPS.

Exactly... I'm more into graphics than I am buttery baby ass levels of framerate smoothness.

The funny thing is a lot of PC brethren are not running everything at 60 locked or above. Plenty make their own call on graphics vs performance vs investment.

The 60+ or bust crowd is a very, very tiny minority (and I doubt many of them are as loyal to their cause either when MSAA comes to shove.). Like most niche minorities, they're very loud and insecure.

+1

 

[the_champ]

As some user stated a time ago, some kind of games (aventure/action) and scenarios (like cinematics) at 30 fps makes sense. A lot. I dont think sporting and racing games are better at a lower rate aunder any circumsntance.

 

[LCGeek]

30fps is a suboptimal choice for any genre but I can look past it if a game is playable and boasts enough solid content and sheen to warrant a purchase. I can understand not being satisfied with 30fps in a racing game. I don't understand people on GAF who let pretty little things like this justify such rude and shitty attitudes toward developers every time they perceive some slight against their tastes and expectations.

Neither do I, but considering the industry and the consumer it serves publishers/devs should be wiser about decisions that do have an effect on people. Been saying it like other points since last gen publishers shouldn't be deciding performance issues in the way they are, considering the money they need or claim to want to sustain their business.

Also dimissive attitudes do nothing but fuel the flames.

Little things.... Do some gaffers here have no clue of display tech? Honestly just like resolution you need these two to be at a decent level or the eye candy part of the graphics are totally meaningless. slow or inconsistent fps basically defeats the point of me doing a medium which is based around heavy visuals. We would not be here if it wasn't for these crowds and what they started with intel, amd, 3dfx, and nvidia back in the 90's. Acting as if they are small or their issues are nothing to worry about is basically to show massive ignorance towards the industry in various forms or consumers and how they have voted with their wallets for basically two decades.

 

[GrayFoxPL]

I played Test Drive 2 on C64 and that shit run in 4fps you spoiled pansies! ;P

 

[Riderz1337]

I don't know about you guys, but this game looks smooth as fuck at 30 FPS. Seriously idk why but it makes it feel as if it's almost 60 FPS...in a weird way.

Would I prefer 60 FPS? Yes I would, but I'm just saying with the visual fidelity they have going on, I don't mind 30. My favourite racers on last gen were 30 FPS, and my least favourite were 60 (Racing sims...eww).

 

[Requiem]

You're fooling yourself if you think the game looks exactly as they envisioned it. They would've made the game look even better if the PS4 could handle it at 30 fps. Developers are always making sacrifices to their vision to ensure that their game runs at a playable framerate.

I am not debating that this game could have looked even better. My point is that their vision for this game (an assumption of course) was to make it as pretty as possible and locked at a stable 30 FPS. Judging by this interview they have achieved what they set out to do.

 

[Fox_Mulder]

Project Gotham Racing was 30fps and it felt good

 

[Metallix87]

It's choppy using basic math and understanding time in regards to fps or refreshrate. If high fps situations like 60fps or 120fps with/without strobing are double to quadrable in terms of speed then yes it can be called choppy.

Human eyes aren't exactly fast from what we know this is not hard issue, it's simple biology and time.

with that being said I'm sick of people with enthusiast needs being unrealistic about PS4 game, most of knew from delay rumors this wasn't going to be hitting 60fps.

It's unrealistic to expect a PS4 game run at a steady 60 fps?

 

[Miles Quaritch]

30fps is perfectly fine for this.

http://a.pomf.se/bxjlln.webm
http://a.pomf.se/rijkkh.webm
http://a.pomf.se/vwrckt.webm
http://a.pomf.se/evpcbs.webm

That sense of speed and motion blur is incredible. Won't miss 60fps at all...

 

[Acquiescence]

I'll happily take 30fps when the game looks as sublime as it does. And it does look utterly sublime going off of that latest trailer set in Canada.

Not to mention that some of my favourite racing games have run at 30fps. Hello Rollcage!

 

[Curufinwe]

Well its not much of a discussion when its 60fps or nothing. Its like debating climate change with a creationist.

So PGR and Forza Horizon and Motorstorm weren't great racing games, but would have been if (all else being equal) they had been 60fps? Can there be no good racers at a locked 30fps? Thats impossible? Is that the discussion point?

Need for Speed Hot Pursuit on the PS3 was a great game with a great sense of speed. It was 30 fps and I enjoyed it 10 times more than playing Burnout Paradise on my PC at 60 fps.

 

[Flo_Evans]

30fps is perfectly fine for this.

http://a.pomf.se/bxjlln.webm
http://a.pomf.se/krwrhc.webm
http://a.pomf.se/vwrckt.webm
http://a.pomf.se/evpcbs.webm

That sense of speed and motion blur is incredible. Won't miss 60fps at all...

The motion blur kind of looks like ass to me. You are seeing the video compression smooth it out quite a bit there.

 

[HTupolev]

Project Gotham Racing was 30fps and it felt good

Project Gotham Racing is 60fps.

Its sequels are 30fps.

 

[LCGeek]

It's unrealistic to expect a PS4 game run at a steady 60 fps?

For a first generation game that is trading fps for eye candy and resolution which we know by watch dogs is not something the system can do a jack of all trades and be fine with. Maybe in another generation or two we will see what devs can really do, but considering the power in PS4 vs people wanting next gen visuals that are clear improvements devs are going to make obvious sacrifices. This will always been an issue for consoles until performance issues aren't a problem for their range of power.

FPS is harder to do especially in regards to maintaining a solid average than eye candy or res is.

Need for Speed Hot Pursuit on the PS3 was a great game with a great sense of speed. It was 30 fps and I enjoyed it 10 times more than playing Burnout Paradise on my PC at 60 fps.

What a poor bad example to use. I love nfs so the following not complaint against that.

You can run both NFS:HP 2010 and BOaradise on a pc at 60fps and with downsampling that craps on the console versions. When people claim why 30fps is why they enjoyed it was in spite of it not because of it. Arcade racers have an always will be acceptable to me if the the fps is stable. I care far more about the feel of a racer especially in regards to if the cars feel like boats than where my preference for fps is when certain things are being considered. To be frank as well that version of NFS shits on most arcade racers of the last decade sans trackmania, pgr, and outrun.

 

[Solid Samus]

Neither do I, but considering the industry and the consumer it serves publishers/devs should be wiser about decisions that do have an effect on people. Been saying it like other points since last gen publishers shouldn't be deciding performance issues in the way they are, considering the money they need or claim to want to sustain their business.

Also dimissive attitudes do nothing but fuel the flames.

Little things.... Do some gaffers here have no clue of display tech? Honestly just like resolution you need these two to be at a decent level or the eye candy part of the graphics are totally meaningless. slow or inconsistent fps basically defeats the point of me doing a medium which is based around heavy visuals. We would not be here if it wasn't for these crowds and what they started with intel, amd, 3dfx, and nvidia back in the 90's. Acting as if they are small or their issues are nothing to worry about is basically to show massive ignorance towards the industry in various forms or consumers and how they have voted with their wallets for basically two decades.

I understand that and I don't mean to be dismissive, or at least not as dismissive as those who haven't touched the title and are ready to call 'terrible decision' (at the very least) on a measured choice by people who actually have money and a franchise on the line. I call it a 'pretty little thing' because it's one single early gen exclusive racer and the devs have probably given a lot more thought into this than we have. Not because I don't think that 60fps should be the target for the vast majority of games this generation, because I do. These guys wanted to go for impressive visuals, and they did. I'm not gonna knock that unless the game plays like shit and I'm not convinced that 30fps alone is enough to make a game play like shit (much less make it look 'ugly and choppy') so I'm just left shocked by some of these responses.