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[EmCeeGramr]

well that's just silly

 

[wsippel]

What? Damn it.

Nintendo and Hatena are working on a native 3DS version.

 

[perfectchaos007]

....And Nintendo wants 3DS sales to increase? They sure aren't acting like they give a crap

 

[goomba]

wtf Nintendo ?

 

[UberTag]

....And Nintendo wants 3DS sales to increase? They sure aren't acting like they give a crap

They have a giant money bin to swim in. Why the hell should they care?

 

[perfectchaos007]

They have a giant money bin to swim in. Why the hell should they care?

To avoid the giant money bin from being drained.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

To avoid the giant money bin from being drained.

They're banking on the 20,000 people that used the service not being mad.

 

[perfectchaos007]

They're banking on the 20,000 people that used the service not being mad.

What I learned in business is that for every 1 person that complains about a product or service, another 1,000 have the same dissatisfaction. So if 20 people complained to Nintendo, they can estimate 20,000 are dissatisfied.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

What I learned in business is that for every 1 person that complains about a product or service, another 1,000 have the same dissatisfaction. So if 20 people complained to Nintendo, they can estimate 20,000 are dissatisfied.

Yeah, but how many of them will leave the Nintendo flock because of it?

If it ends up being a deal breaker for a large sum of people Nintendo will be the first to know about it.

 

[Izayoi]

Show me where they ever stated that?

Since the game file and save file were essentially the same file on the DSi, I was sure it'd be the whole thing copied over.

They never stated it, but the fact that you would have to re-download the games should've been a big hint. I figured right away that we wouldn't be able to transfer our saves.

 

[Roto13]

Oh, no, all that time I spent on... Box Life and... er... uh... Brain Age?

 

[Mafro]

Nice lack of foresight there, Nintendo. Doesn't give me much hope for WiiWare transfers on Cafe.

 

[Roto13]

I wonder if you'll be able to transfer the licenses (which is what this really is anyway) and then copy the actual files from an SD card.

 

[dallow_bg]

They never stated it, but the fact that you would have to re-download the games should've been a big hint. I figured right away that we wouldn't be able to transfer our saves.

David Wharton, director of eShop Operations at NoA said

"You’ll download that to your DSi system, then use it to move the games over. Once you move the games over, they will be deleted from your DSi and left on your 3DS."

Move them over is pretty different from "download again". I didn't even think this needed any online functionality at all other than the transfer app.

 

[Zee-Row]

I'm mad because i'm gonna lose my Cave Story and Shantae save.

 

[Smiles and Cries]

I did not expect a smooth transfer thats why I stayed away from DSi

sorry guys if sure NOA support and bit of complaining will give what u want though (a transfer) don't expect two copies one on DSi and other on 3DS lol

 

[Clunker]

I had already decided to keep my XL due to how janky the back-compatibility looks for certain titles, but this cements my decision even deeper. I've dumped too much time into Art Style: Aquia and PictoBits to want to restart yet again (I already had to restart them once) and lose my high scores and soundtrack unlocks.

What a shit show this has been for the 3DS's online & digital initiatives in the past week or so. I'm still excited for the retail games that'll inevitably be great, but it's frustrating to see Nintendo continually drop the ball with digital distro titles, especially since literally everyone else is doing it far better, and has been doing it for years.

 

[Somnid]

Not to excuse sloppiness but why are gamers so damn caught up over save files? I've lost many a save file due to corrupt memory cards, failed battery backup, reinstallation you name it and I can't remember ever really giving a shit (even multiple 100+ hour Diablo, Morrowind and Oblivion files). I think the worst was Smash Bros Melee missing about 3 trophies, but even then I got it back to the same spot (and twice as fast). I think the only one that I'd ever care about is Pokemon since that's been roughly a decade worth of collecting over 3 generations with plenty of special promo ones. But for the rest it was just a bookmark for my current run.

Hell, if anything it just gives me reason to replay them.

 

[Hours Left]

Lame Nintendo, really lame.

 

[BooJoh]

Hopefully the 3DS can see the DSiWare games on the SD card and let you play them or transfer them to the internal storage (if you need to put them in the internal storage to play them).

This is what I was wondering. If the transfer is merely transferring the license, then what's to stop you from copying all your DSiWare to SD, copying those to your PC as a backup, completing the transfer, then moving your backups from your PC to your 3DS SD card.

As long as the 3DS is storing the DSiWare games in the same file format on its SD card, I would think this would work.

The one hangup I can think of is if there's any encrypted data within those files that identifies the specific system licensed to play that copy of that game, and if the 3DS recieves an all-new license rather than a literal transfer of the same license. Or if the files are stored compressed on the SD for DSi but not for 3DS.

Just in case, before I transfer I'm going to backup all my DSiWare to my PC.

 

[nincompoop]

Not to excuse sloppiness but why are gamers so damn caught up over save files? I've lost many a save file due to corrupt memory cards, failed battery backup, reinstallation you name it and I can't remember ever really giving a shit (even multiple 100+ hour Diablo, Morrowind and Oblivion files). I think the worst was Smash Bros Melee missing about 3 trophies, but even then I got it back to the same spot (and twice as fast). I think the only one that I'd ever care about is Pokemon since that's been roughly a decade worth of collecting over 3 generations with plenty of special promo ones. But for the rest it was just a bookmark for my current run.

Hell, if anything it just gives me reason to replay them.

I was wondering that too. Unless there's some really epic DSiware games that I'm not aware of which take 50+ hours to unlock everything, if you want to replay your games then you're going to be starting from the beginning anyway, so why is this a big deal?

 

[Somnid]

This is what I was wondering. If the transfer is merely transferring the license, then what's to stop you from copying all your DSiWare to SD, copying those to your PC as a backup, completing the transfer, then moving your backups from your PC to your 3DS SD card.

As long as the 3DS is storing the DSiWare games in the same file format on its SD card, I would think this would work.

The one hangup I can think of is if there's any encrypted data within those files that identifies the specific system licensed to play that copy of that game, and if the 3DS recieves an all-new license rather than a literal transfer of the same license. Or if the files are stored compressed on the SD for DSi but not for 3DS.

Just in case, before I transfer I'm going to backup all my DSiWare to my PC.

It seems like they are and that might be both for anti-cheating and to prevent save game hacking exploits. I'm guessing in the move to 3DS it generates a new key and thus your save games are locked out.

 

[Teknoman]

Nintendo and Hatena are working on a native 3DS version.

Prior damn it has been stricken from the record.

I had already decided to keep my XL due to how janky the back-compatibility looks for certain titles, but this cements my decision even deeper. I've dumped too much time into Art Style: Aquia and PictoBits to want to restart yet again (I already had to restart them once) and lose my high scores and soundtrack unlocks.

What a shit show this has been for the 3DS's online & digital initiatives in the past week or so. I'm still excited for the retail games that'll inevitably be great, but it's frustrating to see Nintendo continually drop the ball with digital distro titles, especially since literally everyone else is doing it far better, and has been doing it for years.

Past week? What else happened other than this?

 

[A Link to the Past]

Pros of this: I'm not too far in DodoGo, Ivy the Kiwi Mini?, Cave Story, or Shantae: Risky's Revenge.

Cons of this: I used to have a shit ton of games that I was far in till my DSi was stolen.

:S

 

[RaidenZR]

This is pretty irresponsible and continuously shows how little Nintendo seems to care about the details when it comes to its online effort. It further underscores their poor foresight in this arena as well.

The save data thing... it's just an affront against common sense now.

 

[fabricated backlash]

Wait, people are upset about this now?

I thought we knew this was happening from the very beginning.

Yeah... I think to remember that as well. But it's E3, drama is now the only response possible.
I think it sucks for people who invested tons and tons of hours into some DSi games (which I honestly doubt) but I gotta ask: Who is going to keep playing most DSi games after the transfer anyway?

And those games that you still keep playing, well, start fresh.

This is pretty irresponsible and continuously shows how little Nintendo seems to care about the details when it comes to its online effort. It further underscores their poor foresight in this arena as well.

Seriously, this is just an affront against common sense now.

It is, but it is also blown hugely out of proportion. I wasn't able to transfer my savedata from the xbox to the 360 as well. Had to play Halo and Halo 2 on legendary againg. Yeah, Microsoft is so backwards with online...

 

[RaidenZR]

It is, but it is also blown hugely out of proportion. I wasn't able to transfer my savedata from the xbox to the 360 as well. Had to play Halo and Halo 2 on legendary againg. Yeah, Microsoft is so backwards with online...

That example sucks too, but it's also not an excuse. Not for either company. We give them our hard earned money and we spend personal time playing these games, so when they make a big deal about a service for a few months, enough to put blurbs on their product pages about it, then is it out of line to expect it to be comprehensive?

They want repeat business from people who bought their DSi's so they should at least try their best to make us satisfied and not just go halfway with it. I'm sure there are technical issues that gum up the works, but Nintendo has plenty of resources to tap. I expect more.

 

[fabricated backlash]

That example sucks too, but it's also not an excuse. Not for either company. We give them our hard earned money and we spend personal time playing these games, so when they make a big deal about a service for a few months, enough to put blurbs on their product pages about it, then is it out of line to expect it to be comprehensive?

They want repeat business from people who bought their DSi's so they should at least try their best to make us satisfied and not just go halfway with it. I'm sure there are technical issues that gum up the works, but Nintendo has plenty of resources to tap. I expect more.

Seriously, its only savedata. Believe me, after losing 350 hours of PSO, 400 hours of Smash Bros, 100 hours of FZero GX, and more than 200 hours of MGS3 save files (two of my Memory cards were lost when I moved to Austria), I learned to see save files as what they are: Meaningless.

Most of the time you would never ever return to a game you spend so much time on. And if you do, it makes really no difference as it was the game that made you return not your save file.

Unless you have unlocked some stuff that isn't available until 200 hours into a game, and even then chances are you are allready past the enjoyment of a game and have fallen into a grind that you only keep up due to boredom or simply conditioning.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but is there a single DSi game that would warrant all the outrage here? I could understand if there were multiple huge epic RPGs with hundreds of hours spent on them, with a metric shit ton to unlock, massive online progression etc.

But for some small, mostly sucky apps, who's biggest and most acclaimed titles revolve around replaying them over and over again, I really don't think all this hyperbolic rage is justified.

 

[charlequin]

dear lord, nintendo's outrageous incompetence in handling such matters continues to beggar belief

 

[xSL4INx]

I don't understand the surprise and uproar. Since this is exactly what happens when you transfer apps between iPhones, I was expecting the same thing to happen with DSiWare-3DS transfer.

 

[Gravijah]

dear lord, nintendo's outrageous incompetence in handling such matters continues to beggar belief

Don't worry, Nintendo is doing online right this time.

No no, not with the 3DS. With the Cafe/Current.

 

[RaidenZR]

Seriously, its only savedata. Believe me, after losing 350 hours of PSO, 400 hours of Smash Bros, 100 hours of FZero GX, and more than 200 hours of MGS3 save files (two of my Memory cards were lost when I moved to Austria), I learned to see save files as what they are: Meaningless.

Most of the time you would never ever return to a game you spend so much time on. And if you do, it makes really no difference as it was the game that made you return not your save file.

Unless you have unlocked some stuff that isn't available until 200 hours into a game, and even then chances are you are allready past the enjoyment of a game and have fallen into a grind that you only keep up due to boredom or simply conditioning.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but is there a single DSi game that would warrant all the outrage here? I could understand if there were multiple huge epic RPGs with hundreds of hours spent on them, with a metric shit ton to unlock, massive online progression etc.

But for some small, mostly sucky apps, who's biggest and most acclaimed titles revolve around replaying them over and over again, I really don't think all this hyperbolic rage is justified.

I get your point of view. I do. But I think it's silly to be a paying customer and make excuses at the same time. I'm glad you've come to terms with it, but some of us aren't so willing to toss away our time. And it's been 8 years since F-Zero GX. We can do better now.

Personally for me, I'm a developer and I look deeper into games for reference from time to time. Save files are a means to access hot points of a given game and to that end it's pretty crucial for those purposes.

 

[snap0212]

I skipped DSi Ware completely because I almost expected them to not have a clue about what to do with these purchases in the future. I know there are some gems out there but I'd really want to see Nintendo being more future proof with their online stuff.

I'll buy a 3DS Ware game here and there but I can't see myself spending as much money on there as on PSN/Xbox Live Arcade even if they have good enough software that would justify shopping there often.

 

[Night_Trekker]

Hopefully someone will come up with a hack work-around for this :/

 

[MrDanger88]

 

[EricDiesel]

Honestly, I'm still surprised you can transfer the games at all.

 

[dallow_bg]

"It's just save data!"

That's cool it doesn't matter that much to you guys.

I don't understand the surprise and uproar. Since this is exactly what happens when you transfer apps between iPhones, I was expecting the same thing to happen with DSiWare-3DS transfer.

If you back up and restore to a new iPhone the save data is safe so.... no.

You can always manually move saves as well though that's more trouble.

 

[fabricated backlash]

I get your point of view. I do. But I think it's silly to be a paying customer and make excuses at the same time. I'm glad you've come to terms with it, but some of us aren't so willing to toss away our time. And it's been 8 years since F-Zero GX. We can do better now.

Personally for me, I'm a developer and I look deeper into games for reference from time to time. Save files are a means to access hot points of a given game and to that end it's pretty crucial for those purposes.

I don't make excuses, I'm simply realistic here. Like I said, if those save files would contain access to higher gameplay, items, levels that take considerable amount of time investment to unlock, then I would be pissed too. But name me more than 2 DSi titles that have that.

You are acting like there is no way in getting back to those save files after. Like I said, had the DSi shop produced lots of content rich games with hundreds of hours worth of gameplay that depends on saving, I would instantly agree.

Hopefully someone will come up with a hack work-around for this :/

That would need a total decryption of how the game saves, as well as figuring out how to change the values to transfer the save to the specific 3DS console, which would be needed for every single save file and every single console.

 

[Teppic]

The problem wouldn't be that huge if the games didn't get deleted on the DSi they're transferred from. Sony allows games on five systems at once, I'm sure Nintendo can afford two...

 

[fabricated backlash]

The problem wouldn't be that huge if the games didn't get deleted on the DSi you're transferring from. Sony allows games on five systems at once, I'm sure Nintendo can afford two...

That's a complaint I can completely understand. The thing is though, that it might need Nintendo to change their legal arrangements with other publishers that released on the system. Hell some of the contracts could force games to stay on the original Hardware.

Still contracts can be changed, updated and adapted to new business situations, if both parties are willing to do so.

And here I see the big problem with the unmovable, unflexible and slow ass block that is Nintendo.

Also Nintendo loves Money.

 

[The Dutch Slayer]

At least you CAN transfer something, I always assume as long as their is no "nintendo account"
That everything is lost at the system you purchased it on.

At least we CAN transfer from dsi > 3ds.
Curious to know if wii > project cafe transfer is an option or not.

 

[Bankoiia]

No real surprise there. Almost a good thing most of my DSi purchases were purely scorebased type games. I won't really have a problem with this.

 

[Shiggy]

At least you CAN transfer something, I always assume as long as their is no "nintendo account"
That everything is lost at the system you purchased it on.

At least we CAN transfer from dsi > 3ds.
Curious to know if wii > project cafe transfer is an option or not.

Last I heard transfarring WiiWare games to Cafe deletes all of your save files on your PS3 & Xbox 360. Nintendomination!

 

[Jo Shishido's Cheeks]

Fuck I have loads of great characters on Photo Dojo, some of which are people I don't see anymore and, coincidentally, that was the game I was most looking forward to transferring across.

So, with the shit battery, mis-matched colour design, self-scratching screens, high price, shit DS playback, store delay, shit friends service and now shit software transfer I, even as a huge Nintendo fan, am glad the 3DS isn't doing well. Nintendo have fucked up with this handheld. Arrogant fools

 

[sphinx]

you people really have to come to terms with this whole "Nintendo & Online" topic.

Nintendo have never ever handled online properly, there always a catch, a fuck up or somethin. Being surprised that something like this happened is uncalled for.

The last game I bought on Wii was Majoras Mask but I REALLY don't expect to have VC and Wiiware games trasfered smoothy to cafe, at all.

In fact, I don't really care about that, they look fine and are optimized on my Wii. If I ever want to come back to them, I plug the Wii and play, end of story and drama.

Why don't you all play your DSi games in.. you know, your DSi?

 

[RaidenZR]

Like I said, if those save files would contain access to higher gameplay, items, levels that take considerable amount of time investment to unlock, then I would be pissed too. But name me more than 2 DSi titles that have that.

Well, you might consider 2-6 hours of playtime paltry and trivial, but I don't. I value those minutes. Shantae and Mighty Flip Champs, for example, I have a good amount of time logged into those. Same for Starship Defense. If I want to ever replay a specific level or see if a boastful friend can beat my time in a later stage of MFC, I shouldn't have to worry about this save data stuff. I definitely want to revisit portions of those games, but I don't want them to be blank slates the next time they boot up. I don't see why this expectation is so absurd when it was Nintendo's initiative to bring the transfer concept to light in the first place. Do it right or don't.

you people really have to come to terms with this whole "Nintendo & Online" topic.

We're just looking for progress. Signs of anything improving here. It's not unreasonable.

Why don't you all play your DSi games in.. you know, your DSi?

Of course. But Nintendo has taken steps to provide a service. I anticipated utilizing it and eventually selling my DSi since it renders the machine unnecessary at that point. Obviously I've reconsidered that position in light of this news.

 

[Amir0x]

Guess it's a good thing I've never purchased a DSiWare game. Not like there were any I wanted anyhow

 

[zigg]

The reason this is happening is because there is no separate save files for DSiWare. The DSiWare file is the game + saves. Since the transfer deletes the DSiWare files from your DSi, there's no way to restore the save. Though I wonder if there is a way to transfer the DSiWare files from an SD card once the transfer completes to the 3DS.

I don't see why this excuses it. The transfer app sits there on both systems, it has access to manipulate the license list, surely it could send over all the blocks that comprise the game+save.

Well I wonder if this can work.

Save a copy of the DSiWare game files on a SD card or just backup the SD card with the DSiWare on a computer (just to be safe). On the 3DS download one of the games, if it saves to the internal storage try to copy it to the SD card. Connect the SD card to the computer and try to figure out where it was saved on the SD card and then copy over the rest of your DSiWare game files to that folder and see what happens when you connect the SD card back to the 3DS.

I am also curious about this. I think I'm pretty much resigned to losing the saves here, since I already gave my DSi away... if it doesn't work, it doesn't work.

dear lord, nintendo's outrageous incompetence in handling such matters continues to beggar belief

I was wondering when you were going to show up. There hadn't been enough sweeping proclamations of Nintendo incompetence in this thread yet.

I don't understand the surprise and uproar. Since this is exactly what happens when you transfer apps between iPhones, I was expecting the same thing to happen with DSiWare-3DS transfer.

I did not go in having any expectations, positive or negative, beyond what had already been confirmed—we would be able to, on Transfer Day, move most DSiWare licenses to a 3DS. My personal uproar, such as it is, at this particular situation is because it's actually fact... life's too short to assume things are going to be bad before the bad actually happens.

 

[FoxSpirit]

Guess it's a good thing I've never purchased a DSiWare game. Not like there were any I wanted anyhow

No Shantae 2?

 

[Starwolf_UK]

Are Nintendo going for total meltdown before E3 so we won't be able to meltdown at E3 due to being all melted-out?

Did people honestly expect better from the company that still doesn't let you transfer games between Wii systems? It's pretty clear that they don't give a shit about your digital purchases.

Maybe if there was a precedent of not allowing save transfers (excepting anything online enabled as for technical reasons it includes the console ID or something stupid) end of this would be more expected but frankly it comes across as another nail in the coffin.

But I have to wonder what Nintendo is thinking. I do not understand why for online enabled games on the Wii I couldn't just copy the actual save but a version of it stripped of all online useful stuff. Though I guess even that would suck as say for Mario Kart that would mean no ghost data (its ghost data is uses for time attack uploads, right otherwise time attack end of) but its certainly a lot better than "spend 20 hours everything again to unlock everything then you can back to playing as Mii2 with the Blue Falcon". Likewise, the DSiWare saves being the same as the bleeding game. I'm guessing that one is about eliminating attack vectors (if there is no common key to decrypt saves it makes hacked saves a lot harder).