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[soundahfekz]

I understand why you are doing what you are doing.

But what is your actual take on this - if true. Are you okay with it? Do you like/dislike it? Or do you refuse to comment on anything that is not confirmed.

I said this in another thread, but I actually like the idea of people reacting to this. Just because, if it ends up being true, I would rather the negative press get built up high early on. But then again, I don't like this move. So yeah.

Thank you

 

[quest]

You seem to misunderstand the situation. MS wouldn't do this alone if Publishers weren't backing them.

It's really simple, what does MS stand to gain from this? This would mostly benefit 3rd Parties. It would be crazy to do this if Publishers would just release on both systems. Which is why it doesn't make sense.

Exactly I am glad someone was able to say this better tha I have been trying. This would be all about appeasing publishers and developers who are dropping like flies.

 

[Zuhzuhzombie!!]

You can get free shit all the time on PS+

It's not free and you don't own it.

 

[C4Lukins]

I think the only way this happens is if Sony and MS made an agreement to go this route.

 

[BobTheFork]

New games drop to that price point eventually so I still don't believe you would stop being a gamer all together if used was completely factored out on price alone. I have bought used in the past but I still want to inject money into the industry or it will fail eventually, just the way economy works. I would be more concerned about not being able to sell or trade in my games to supplement my purchases.

I think if this is true then we will see games hold their prices for much longer. I really don't know if game prices are dropped to compete with used games but it makes sense. I think the publishers will try to keep game prices much higher for longer periods of time.

The 'conspiracy' theory that EDGE is doing this on purpose knowing it's not true...maybe? If they get some major exclusive reveal of the xbox later than I think we would have our answer. They are confirming they are sure of their sources so if it turns out that way it would make them look like shit.

Say it's true and ps4 doesn't do it: Do you think a publisher punishes them by holding out ports? In an age where most companies need the two versions to make their money it would be crazy. And IF (big if) the consumers actually give a shit and reject the xbox (doubt it), then it would mean leaving ports off the console with a bigger user base. I can't wait to see how the shitstorm settles and who is left in a pile.

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

You seem to misunderstand the situation. MS wouldn't do this alone if Publishers weren't backing them.

It's really simple, what does MS stand to gain from this? This would mostly benefit 3rd Parties.

you seem to think that this is some sort of conspiracy game. I'm sure publishers are all for it. Yeah MS we like that! Do it! But you're also making the giant leap to assume that just because Sony doesn't go for it, this means they won't get support. And that part is what I'm specifically saying is categorically and objectively not true.

No publisher is that ignorant. IF this is 100% true, then microsoft probably has a long-game agenda of their own here. My guess is it isn't 100% true. I think there are a lot of half truths here and all will become clear soon.

 

[Ding-Ding]

Sony HAS to follow suit, otherwise they are fucked!

I think the point of the big publishers releasing their games on the only console that allows no-used games is a given. This is what the publishers have wanted for decades!

With no third-part support, where does that leave Sony? Up a shit-river with no toilet paper, that's where!

Oh my GOD! My world is spinning too fast! I need to get off!!!!

Problem, we know Sony has backing as 3rd party's have the dev kits. So at launch, it could very well be all square when it comes to software.

Now, what happens if the next xbox gets of to a stinker as consumers backlash against these rumoured policies. Do you really think that publishers will ignore the higher user base which they know their products sell on?.

Not a chance in hell

 

[Zzoram]

I guess we now know what leverage Microsoft has to get 3rd party games to look equal on PS4/Xbox despite the PS4 having better hardware. Microsoft will use the inability to play used games to entice superior support from 3rd party developers. Those developers will also have added incentive to keep graphics parity because they will want people to buy the Xbox version not the PS4 version to reduce the impact of used game sales.

 

[PhatSaqs]

You seem to misunderstand the situation. MS wouldn't do this alone if Publishers weren't backing them.

It's really simple, what does MS stand to gain from this? This would mostly benefit 3rd Parties. It would be crazy to do this if Publishers would just release on both systems. Which is why it doesn't make sense.

Right. Gotta love the illogical stance that MS just said "fuck it no used games" without any sort of substantial (really substantial) backing from the people it would matter most to: ie. 3rd party pubs.

 

[Mr_Pooriya]

They shouldn't f•ck around in the secondhand market. Just leave it as it is, with network passes for a tenner. The current system is a win-win for all parties.

 

[zomgbbqftw]

I think the only way this happens is if Sony and MS made an agreement to go this route.

That would be highly illegal and both companies would face huge fines from the DoJ and EU Competition Commission.

 

[FordGTGuy]

People buy used because it's cheaper the problem with implementing a system like this is that it takes time and it cuts off earlier games from support.

If they can make it like Steam where games drop price quickly and only new games are priced high it could work...

That's ignoring all the other factors that would come into play also that would complicate the matter further.

 

[Log4Girlz]

Is there a solution to this that would end with both the Publishers and Consumers in a good spot?

Perhaps encouraging digital downloads. All sorts of things could be done to make them extremely enticing and it would cut down on used sales.

 

[Baconsammy]

Good for you buddy keep supporting big business anti-consumer practices. Just don't complain next time you're sold a box of shit because you deserve it. But hey at least the box of shit is yours forever( or until your box of shit player stops working/goes offline.)

He's supporting the third parties. Thanks for elevating the level of discourse though.

 

[Glorified G]

You know how we look back an realize how including blu ray in the ps3 pretty much fucked over Sony this gen.

We'll be doing the same 8 years for ms over this.

You underestimate modern journalism, hits are the only reason these websites are alive. It's like a bunch of Donald Trumps running around making blogs yelling "look at me!".

First stage. Denial.

 

[Reiko]

I guess we now know what leverage Microsoft has to get 3rd party games to look equal on PS4/Xbox despite the PS4 having better hardware. Microsoft will use the inability to play used games to entice superior support from 3rd party developers. Those developers will also have added incentive to keep graphics parity because they will want people to buy the Xbox version not the PS4 version to reduce the impact of used game sales.

That sounds ridiculous.

 

[ilikesanta]

I don't buy used games but I do loan/borrow games with friends from time to time. It sucks if true but I also imagine that this will be the last generation with physical media, PS5 and xbox 1080 will be all digital. Of corse then we will also just have the "one console" by then too.

 

[jsnepo]

It's weird reading comments about third parties going Xbox exclusive because of disabling the use of pre-owned games. Do you people really think that publishers will want to shrink their market? Unlike Nintendo, Sony has core followers. Just think about the lost profit from COD or even GTA if they go Xbox exclusive.

 

[zomgbbqftw]

Also all of this talk about MS and the third parties coming to some kind of agreement would also probably be classed as a collusion and all parties would face huge fines.

Seriously, both the DoJ and EUCC take a very dim view of collusions and non-sanctioned cartels.

 

[apana]

All we are hearing right now is that Microsoft is doing this. We aren't hearing that Sony is following them, we aren't getting rumors about how Microsoft has locked up a bunch of exclusives. Surely we are missing some part of the story. Sony has to say something on February 20th (or whenever the date is), right?

 

[Uno Venova]

I guess we now know what leverage Microsoft has to get 3rd party games to look equal on PS4/Xbox despite the PS4 having better hardware. Microsoft will use the inability to play used games to entice superior support from 3rd party developers. Those developers will also have added incentive to keep graphics parity because they will want people to buy the Xbox version not the PS4 version to reduce the impact of used game sales.

Why didn't they just conspire to blow up Sony HQ.

 

[IsntChrisL]

You seem to misunderstand the situation. MS wouldn't do this alone if Publishers weren't backing them.

It's really simple, what does MS stand to gain from this? This would mostly benefit 3rd Parties. It would be crazy to do this if Publishers would just release on both systems. Which is why it doesn't make sense.

Microsoft takes a cut from third party sales. They stand to gain a LOT of money.

I'm sure publishers/developers are big proponents of the idea as well though.

 

[Drek]

What is a videogame system with no Fifa? With no Call of Duty, no Battlefield, no Madden?

Gamers would just simply buy the system where those are on. They wouldn't think twice about it either.

This shit is bleak

It wasn't that long ago when Winning Eleven was the dominant football game worldwide.

CoD and Battlefield are big hits this generation, they've shown no staying power and there are a plethora of better online FPS games that haven't gotten as much attention. Wouldn't be hard at all for something new to take over the market.

Madden is already seeing declining sales and EA's exclusive rights to the NFL license expires after 2013. Every other time they've extended it has been years in advance, they're now less than a year from expiration with no news. In light of the class action lawsuit, the negative press it's drawn, and the decline in Madden's popularity I wouldn't bet on Madden being the only football game in town much longer.

Dominant 3rd party titles change quickly in this industry, when you've got a big name IP you need to strike while the iron is hot and move a lot of copies. Going exclusive to one platform early in the generation as a form of power play to get rid of used games sales is a good way to ruin your IPs, your expected profit margins, and your company. Consumers have moved on to different IPs before, that isn't going to stop.

 

[chubigans]

It's weird reading comments about third parties going Xbox exclusive because of disabling the use of pre-owned games. Do you people really think that publishers will want to shrink their market? Unlike Nintendo, Sony has core followers. Just think about the lost profit from COD or even GTA if they go Xbox exclusive.

Yeah, it really doesn't make sense at all. No third party would be that foolish.

 

[Binabik15]

A company trying this should prepare for a huge backlash in Europe and lawsuits from consumer's rights groups.

 

[Tex117]

This is REALLY interesting.

Shutting out the second-game market is probably best for devs/publishers.

But will PS4 follow suit? THE SUSPENSE.

It poses an interesting question for developers.

On one hand, they may like the Xbox idea, but if Xbox does this, the ps4 will have more sales (probably).

Thus the ps4 will have a wider user base and more opportunities to sell the game....That with the ps4 being easier to develop for...

They make it on ps4, port down to xbox to capture those sales yet utilize the ease and a bit more power to make the new game sales on ps4.

 

[les papillons sexuels]

holy shit this makes me angry, it's so anti-consumer.

 

[Dr Dogg]

It's weird reading comments about third parties going Xbox exclusive because of disabling the use of pre-owned games. Do you people really think that publishers will want to shrink their market? Unlike Nintendo, Sony has core followers. Just think about the lost profit from COD or even GTA if they go Xbox exclusive.

Question is can they afford to? At the start of this gen most publishers were saying that they had to be multiplat to just break even.

 

[commish]

It's weird reading comments about third parties going Xbox exclusive because of disabling the use of pre-owned games. Do you people really think that publishers will want to shrink their market? Unlike Nintendo, Sony has core followers. Just think about the lost profit from COD or even GTA if they go Xbox exclusive.

Pretty much. If anyone really, really thinks a developer is going to say "Hey, screw PS4, we're making our game for Xbox only so we can avoid used sales!", then they are a bit delusional.

And let's not even get into the fact that just because someone buys used doesn't mean they'd buy new, so who knows how many actual sales are really lost.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

Let's assume for a minute that this is true and not a controlled leak.

MS put up massive walls around their garden, publishers are happy but gamers aren't. Sony have a nice open playground that publishers aren't happy with but consumers are. Consumers buy PS4 to avoid the newly walled garden, but the publishers are intent on releasing their games on NXTBX only to keep their property away from used gamers and pirates.

At this point, investors step in and tell them to get real and release their games on the other console as well since development cost additions are not going to very large given the similar architecture and the sales potential is worth any hit they might take on piracy/used games.

All of these publishers bar Valve have got investors to answer to, so even if Bobby Kotick says no COD on PS4, investors would force his hand to release the game on the more popular console.

The other problem for MS is that they have just released Halo 4 on 360, so that cartridge in their gun is empty right now. They will have no Halo game at launch for NXTBX to force adoption from the hardcore gamers, nor will they have a Gears of War title. In the face of that there is nothing from MS's first party to force gamers onto their platform. There is a good chance that an exclusive next gen COD on Xbox will fail in favour of PS3 and 360 versions because very few want to get the box itself and it's not like Activision aren't going to make COD on current gen boxes.

If MS do release NXTBX with this terrible implementation of used game and piracy control, I fear for the future of Xbox as publishers are not going to ignore PS4 given how popular it is in Europe and how unpopular anti-consumer moves are around these parts. People in the US might get on board, but there is absolutely no way we will in Europe.

That is what i am saying investors are not going to sit around if the PS4 has a large user base and let pubs not put games on PS4.
That just not going to happen even if pubs happy with it .

 

[ChosenPredator]

I never buy used games anymore either unless it's retro like SNES/Sega - rarely lend my friends games since they never return them lol...but i guess i can see how this blows for a lot of people

 

[DevilWillcry]

So much spinning going on in here...I don't see how anyone could think this is a good thing. Third parties may try to convince a hardware maker that this is a good idea, but would they actually give that hardware maker priority support? I seriously doubt it, especially during the first couple of years when these next gen systems struggle to build up an install base in an unstable economy. Taking used games out of the equation only makes things more expensive for customers.

 

[Vinci]

Also all of this talk about MS and the third parties coming to some kind of agreement would also probably be classed as a collusion and all parties would face huge fines.

Seriously, both the DoJ and EUCC take a very dim view of collusions and non-sanctioned cartels.

Agreed. Except I'm not noting that they'll pay MS something or anything underhanded like that. They'll just provide better support and optimization for the MS console. And they CAN do that, since they can claim differences in architecture and costs.

 

[Kagari]

Sony HAS to follow suit, otherwise they are fucked!

I think the point of the big publishers releasing their games on the only console that allows no-used games is a given. This is what the publishers have wanted for decades!

With no third-part support, where does that leave Sony? Up a shit-river with no toilet paper, that's where!

Oh my GOD! My world is spinning too fast! I need to get off!!!!

Yeah, no.
I think this is a gross overreaction over something that hasn't even been proven true yet.

 

[Baconsammy]

A company trying this should prepare for a huge backlash in Europe and lawsuits from consumer's rights groups.

A smart company plans accordingly. Let's wait to see what they're actually doing, and how they're going to implement it.

 

[les papillons sexuels]

I never buy used games anymore either unless it's retro like SNES/Sega - rarely lend my friends games since they never return them lol...but i guess i can see how this blows for a lot of people

Here's the major problem, price fixing on games. There's no competition on game prices, and no incentive to lower them. There's no market to compete with. Theres no rental option, and there no ability to sell your games. It's fucked up. If i buy something it's mine to do whatever the fuck i want with it, which include re-selling it. Publishers need to learn to incorporate resale value in their intial game sales, this is just bad for everyone who's not a publisher(developers included, because less people are going to play their games).

 

[zomgbbqftw]

A company trying this should prepare for a huge backlash in Europe and lawsuits from consumer's rights groups.

Indeed. If this is true, then MS would be dead in Europe. Right now they are on life-support outside of the UK, but with a move like this they would be dead everywhere in the EU.

 

[FordGTGuy]

What is being proposed here is a huge endeavor that would include not only Microsoft(maybe Sony?) but also large 3rd party developers working together. Is it really possible for them to keep something so large so quiet with so many parties involved?

You'd think there would be more than one source on this.

 

[Marty Chinn]

Hahahaha...

I have been on GAF since the Marty fiasco of VF3tb on the Dreamcast.. Love GAF... this
statement above is SO hilarious ( his user name just clinches it!)and its not the only statement on here like this since this RUMOR hit this morning.

Many GAFers are seriously over reacting over this IMHO. Most main stream gamers and dudebro players won't even care about this always online and no used games.

Edit: if you were blindly following them... does this mean this rumor if true has opened your eyes?

Was it really a fiasco? I was right =)

 

[Truelize]

I would absolutely LOVE to see this happen. Would love to see both companies adopt this strategy.

Because its possible that we would see:
- better pricing on games overall.
- that games would drop in price quicker as digital downloads.
- We would see better sales ala Steam sales.
- We wouldn't see awesome publishers like THQ die as easily. Thinking that many of the people that played/enjoyed a THQ published game this generation bought it used with no money going back to the publisher and developer.
- we would see more single player only games because developers don't have to spend so much time trying to find ways to influence consumers to not trade their game in.
- we would see better single player games because developers aren't spending time developing a multiplayer mode in the game that isn't needed (other than to provide a reason for consumers to not trade in their game).

I think a move like this could do many incredibly positive things for this industry I love.

 

[BobTheFork]

Sony HAS to follow suit, otherwise they are fucked!

I think the point of the big publishers releasing their games on the only console that allows no-used games is a given. This is what the publishers have wanted for decades!

With no third-part support, where does that leave Sony? Up a shit-river with no toilet paper, that's where!

Oh my GOD! My world is spinning too fast! I need to get off!!!!

So what happens if the consumers reject the xbox because of this practice, where does that leave the developers? Putting exclusives on the console with less sales? Most of them need two versions to make their money with development costs rising. That isn't going to make them more money. They would lose more than the used game market did.

That's a BIG if though. I don't think most consumers know anything about the console before buying it; not the specs, connectivity, or used game lock down. I think most gamers have already decided which they want if they don't buy both and they won't even know what it does.

If the always online thing is true, you know (KNOW) that the first week it's out tons of people will be posting about not knowing and not having internet and freaking out,

 

[Can Crusher]

you seem to think that this is some sort of conspiracy game. I'm sure publishers are all for it. Yeah MS we like that! Do it! But you're also making the giant leap to assume that just because Sony doesn't go for it, this means they won't get support. And that part is what I'm specifically saying is categorically and objectively not true.

No publisher is that ignorant. IF this is 100% true, then microsoft probably has a long-game agenda of their own here. My guess is it isn't 100% true. I think there are a lot of half truths here and all will become clear soon.

Actually I'm not into conspiracy games at all. The "bad leak" thing is a conspiracy, this is just logical.

I'll try to be clear:

- EDGE is doubling down on this, meaning it might actually be true
- MS reason for doing this? Publishers demands
- If the above are true, then Sony probably follows suit
- Sony has patents covering this

That's my theory.

What I'm discussing with you is what if Sony doesn't follow suit...and if Sony doesn't follow suit it's either:

A) MS is crazy and they are doing it on their own
B) They are going to call bluff

If it's B, it's a bad call because this is an industry move spurred by publishers.

 

[AgentChris]

If Microsoft does this I think Sony will too.

 

[Zzoram]

I don't think this would be illegal. You aren't allowed to resell iOS games.

 

[Dr Dogg]

A company trying this should prepare for a huge backlash in Europe and lawsuits from consumer's rights groups.

Well Microsoft and the EU court are well acquainted with one another.

 

[Baconsammy]

Indeed. If this is true, then MS would be dead in Europe. Right now they are on life-support outside of the UK, but with a move like this they would be dead everywhere in the EU.

No offense, but that's stupid. Have you seen console and game sales numbers from Europe? Microsoft is definitely not leading, but they're nowhere near dead. Good god.

I would absolutely LOVE to see this happen. Would love to see both companies adopt this strategy.

Because its possible that we would see:
- better pricing on games overall.
- that games would drop in price quicker as digital downloads.
- We would see better sales ala Steam sales.
- We wouldn't see awesome publishers like THQ die as easily. Thinking that many of the people that played/enjoyed a THQ published game this generation bought it used with no money going back to the publisher and developer.
- we would see more single player only games because developers don't have to spend so much time trying to find ways to influence consumers to not trade their game in.
- we would see better single player games because developers aren't spending time developing a multiplayer mode in the game that isn't needed (other than to provide a reason for consumers to not trade in their game).

I think a move like this could do many incredibly positive things for this industry I love.

The downside: endless posts asking "Midnight eastern time or midnight pacific!?!!?!?!?!"

 

[metareferential]

the ps4 will have more sales (probably).

I don't understand why everyone is so convinced that would be the case.

Sony advertising "buy games used for less!" on the box?

Some retailers might push the console, but saying that it would automatically bring more sales to the ps4...

Even the "more power+used game" argument is weak. No generation has been decided on power alone, you all know that.

It's about the games. And from last gen on, it's about services and appealing to an always wider audience. Being able to buy used game is certainly a plus, but not something that would make your console the best around just because.

Right now they are on life-support outside of the UK

Being a million and something behind is being "on life support"?

Lol.

 

[paradise_circus]

these non-second hand games for ps4/nextbox are getting news more frequently. it looks very bad, so far....
i really don't know if i will ever buy a physical copy if this thing is getting serious, but i will still buy a console.

 

[Alx]

You really did EA investors would let them get away with not putting FIFA on PS4 if they have a huge lead in EU .

But would the PS4 have a huge lead in Europe if EA declares FIFA exclusive to the Xbox ? It goes both ways.
EA didn't support the Dreamcast, and it hurt it a lot, especially for lack of popular sport games. It's a bet on both sides, but the outcome is far from guaranteed.

 

[Phoenician_Viking]

If Microsoft does it and Sony doesn't, I expect to see some huge(HUGE) exclusive deals signed with Microsoft at the start of next gen. You don't do something like this alone without a lot of support.

In return Sony gets retail support. Screwed if you do screwed if you don´t kind of situation.