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[Village]

This is a good point to be made. Besides the times a-changing, Adventure-era Sonic was designed to be a teenager. I'm laughing hysterically as I type this sentence, but Sonic was canonically 15 or 16 years old during this time. Of course he was an awkwardly lanky, douchey teenager (who made some questionable decisions and friends, coughcoughTHEGAMEScough); he was kinda going though puberty. :V

But see, now they don't really say much about his age anymore, he's mellowed out, his voice keeps getting deeper, but still kinda cheesy. They're making him more "timeless" again. Beyond the implication, I think at one point Sega outright said that he was celebrating his 20th birthday in Generations.

In conclusion, Sonic the Hedgehog is aging.

Sega also said that game isn't cannon. And said classic sonic isn't( frequently) coming back. Then hinted at trying to include more characters in the games.

I don't think they are trying to make him timeless, because timelessness isn't exactly a good thing, that status quo is a hell of a something. I think they just want to do what they were doing better than they were doing it.

Sonic being a teenager didn't magically make sonic 06 bad, sonic team making a shit game made it bad.

 

[Zen_Arcade]

I think you might be projecting a but too much. I think this might be more of you having an issue with the concept of getting older rather than an issue with sonic himself.

I don't believe I am. While the movements were subtle I do think that they convey a certain charm and personality to the character. I think the whole intent of him tapping his toes and looking at the player was supposed to convey personality to the player. Among other animations that I feel were supposed to do the same.

Since there was no voice acting they had to
come up with other ways to make Sonic
seem like he has a personality.

I also have no worry about getting older and I think its blatantly obvious what Sega did to Sonics personality when the Dreamcast released. People responding that they "Poochiefied" him are dead on. Growing up in the late 90s there were countless in your
face X-TREEME characters to follow along with skateboarding/X-Games culture.

Sonic was repurposed from what children
liked to what those same children would like as teenagers 10 years later.

 

[TheOGB]

Well yeah, it's less about the actual games (because lol Sonic canon), but more about the evolution of Sonic as a character being similar to a kid growing up, with the games kind of supporting that.

(In response to Village)

 

[Village]

I don't believe I am. While the movements were subtle I do think that they convey a certain charm and personality to the character. I think the whole intent of him tapping his toes and looking at the player was supposed to convey personality to the player. Among other animations that I feel were supposed to do the same.

Since there was no voice acting they had to
come up with other ways to make Sonic
seem like he has a personality.

I also have no worry about getting older and I think its blatantly obvious what Sega did to Sonics personality when the Dreamcast released. People responding that they "Poochiefied" him are dead on. Growing up in the late 90s there were countless in your
face X-TREEME characters to follow along with skateboarding/X-Games culture.

Sonic was repurposed from what children
liked to what those same children would like as teenagers 10 years later.

I really going to pretend like the animations didn't exist.
Really? Are we going to pretend that Sega wasn't marketing him as cool before, and then just changed his Apperence and attitude because it wasn't working, and then it worked.

Sonic had a voice before adventure, why do you seem to forget that.

Because thats NO GOOD.

Well yeah, it's less about the actual games (because lol Sonic canon), but more about the evolution of Sonic as a character being similar to a kid growing up, with the games kind of supporting that.

(In response to Village)

It was , but I don't think they are saying that they want to abandon what they were doing. No, someone outright said if they wanted to make adventure 3, and several times they have tried. They just want to do it well. Hell someone wanted to try shadow again.

Part of sonics charm is that the characters can interact, I think they should expand on that. Just have good game play around it.

I think sonic has the potential to be more than just him and make a lot more money, they just need the competence to do it. That's what I think sonic generations was about, its was like sonic team saying "hey we can do this shit"

 

[Laranja]

Sonic 3 sonic is the best sonic.

This thread is a bit too strange for my tastes, but I agree with this guy. Sonic 3 features the best Sonic ever. He looked cool, edgy, and had all the personality he needed.

 

[Zen_Arcade]

I really going to pretend like the animations didn't exist.
Really? Are we going to pretend that Sega wasn't marketing him as cool before, and then just changed his Apperence and attitude because it wasn't working, and then it worked.

Sonic had a voice before adventure, why do you seem to forget that.

Because thats NO GOOD.

Because there's a difference between "cool" and "in your face X-TREEME". Before Adventures Sonics type of cool was subdued. He was fast, and he had a bit of an attitude but I never felt like he would be telling me "HEY DUDE, watch how cool this level will be....IF YOU CAN KEEP UP."


He went from being this cool guy who understood how cool he was to a guy who knew he was cool and wanted to shove it in
everyone's face. In the Genesis Sonic games he would lay back, and take a nap. It was evident that he was 100% run fast all the time. Dude was just straight up chilled out in his free time. He was fast, but he was also calm and cool about it. He didn't feel like he needed to shove how cool he was in my face.

Its exactly what the Poochie character represents. A character trying way to hard to make me like him and failing horribly
because its so manufactured and generic that he becomes unbearable.

 

[Village]

Because there's a difference between "cool" and "in your face X-TREEME". Before Adventures Sonics type of cool was subdued. He was fast, and he had a bit of an attitude but I never felt like he would be telling me "HEY DUDE, watch how cool this level will be....IF YOU CAN KEEP UP."


He went from being this cool guy who understood how cool he was to a guy who knew he was cool and wanted to shove it in
everyone's face. In the Genesis Sonic games he would lay back, and take a nap. He was fast, but he was also calm and cool about it. He didn't feel like he needed to shove how cool he was in my face.

Its exactly what the Poochie character represents. A character trying way to hard to make me like him and failing horribly
because its so manufactured and generic that he becomes unbearable.

Please give my example, please.
Because It sounds like you just don't like modern sonic, and you can think of a reason.

 

[Ithil]

Spoiler

Agreed.

Thread

Spoiler

ogre.

 

[TheOGB]

I really going to pretend like the animations didn't exist.
Really? Are we going to pretend that Sega wasn't marketing him as cool before, and then just changed his Apperence and attitude because it wasn't working, and then it worked.

Sonic had a voice before adventure, why do you seem to forget that.

Because thats NO GOOD.

Well now that I better understand what you're arguing from this post, I'd say the classic design still effectively communicated "cool."

The design changed because the times changed. "Cool" became something slightly different for the next generation so Sonic changed to fit that. It was a natural thing.

And speaking strictly the games, Sonic didn't have a voice before Adventure (one or two lines from Sonic CD or maybe a spinoff notwithstanding).

It was , but I don't think they are saying that they want to abandon what they were doing. No, someone outright said if they wanted to make adventure 3, and several times they have tried. They just want to do it well. Hell someone wanted to try shadow again.

Part of sonics charm is that the characters can interact, I think they should expand on that. Just have good game play around it.

I think sonic has the potential to be more than just him and make a lot more money, they just need the competence to do it. That's what I think sonic generations was about, its was like sonic team saying "hey we can do this shit"

And I'm a bit confused again. That post you're responding to, I'm basically saying Sonic's career is almost like that of a child Hollywood star or something. What said doesn't sound like a response to that, which is why I'm confused.

 

[TheOGB]

whoops, double post

 

[Village]

Well now that I better understand what you're arguing from this post, I'd say the classic design still effectively communicated "cool."

The design changed because the times changed. "Cool" became something slightly different for the next generation so Sonic changed to fit that. It was a natural thing.

And speaking strictly the games, Sonic didn't have a voice before Adventure (one or two lines from Sonic CD or maybe a spinoff notwithstanding).

I agree, I think this cool was more effective than the last cool.

And I'm a bit confused again. That post you're responding to, I'm basically saying Sonic's career is almost like that of a child Hollywood star or something. What said doesn't sound like a response to that, which is why I'm confused.

I don't agree, that that's a correct comparison to make. Thats all I am saying , I feel like they would just like to do things better, not do things different. ( which would be different, but you get my point)

 

[7Th]

Sonic CD OP Sonic is the best Sonic: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccpY14bXcug

 

[Karkador]

Village,

I think your OP is pretty indicative of why GAF doesn't let juniors make threads.

I get that you're passionate about Sonic and really feel the need troll people who like something you don't, but at this point you're not going to convince anyone that what they like is dumb, not any more than you'll be convinced of the same.

Spoiler

...but there sure is a lot more to hold against what you like...

Also, you're crazy for trying to dictate what 'cool' is or how to properly 'express' it. 'Cool' to me, personally, isn't a bunch of gangly characters posing in ridiculous ways, grinding rails and being backed by butt rock, but that clearly resonated with newer generations of people, and so here we are. I grew up in the 90s and I like what Sonic was when it was made for me. You're just clearly not familiar with what the 90s were and what Sonic was in light of rivals like Mario and every other mascot hero.

 

[Village]

Village,

I think your OP is pretty indicative of why GAF doesn't let juniors make threads.

I get that you're passionate about Sonic and really feel the need troll people who like something you don't, but at this point you're not going to convince anyone that what they like is dumb, not any more than you'll be convinced of the same.

Spoiler

...but there sure is a lot more to hold against what you like...

Who is trolling, I feel away about thing and wanted to communicate it.

Some people may disagree , some people might agree, isn't that the whole point of a forum.

 

[SonicMegaDrive]

Guys, it's just a cartoon mascot. No need to over-complicate things by writing long essays about it.

Whichever version of the character you prefer lies strictly on personal preference, usually dependent on which version you're more accustomed to or which version you grew up with. Nothing more, nothing less.

Personally, I'm more peeved that they got rid of Cocoa the Monkey from the Cocoa Krispies box. Sadly, it seems the enthusiastic fan base for Cocoa is relatively tiny compared to the one Sega's mascot seems to have.

Bring back the chimp!

 

[TheOGB]

I agree, I think this cool was more effective than the last cool.

Okay, gotcha.

I don't agree, that that's a correct comparison to make. Thats all I am saying , I feel like they would just like to do things better, not do things different. ( which would be different, but you get my point)

Okay, I get that now (Sorry, I'm getting better at this xP). And that's fine; it's more of a joke than a serious analysis.
But now I'm just wondering what the rest of that quote means. I agree that Sega/Sonic Team could be using their characters a lot better and having better interactions between all of them. Is that all that means there?

 

[greycolumbus]

Guys, it's just a cartoon mascot. No need to over-complicate things by writing long essays about it.

Whichever version of the character you prefer lies strictly on personal preference, usually dependent on which version you're more accustomed to or which version you grew up with. Nothing more, nothing less.

Personally, I'm more peeved that they got rid of Cocoa the Monkey from the Cocoa Krispies box. Sadly, it seems the enthusiastic fan base for Cocoa is relatively tiny compared to the one Sega's mascot seems to have.

Bring back the chimp!

That monkey shouldn't have a wet snout. This upsets me.

 

[Village]

Okay, gotcha.



Okay, I get that now (Sorry, I'm getting better at this xP). And that's fine; it's more of a joke than a serious analysis.
But now I'm just wondering what the rest of that quote means. I agree that Sega/Sonic Team could be using their characters a lot better and having better interactions between all of them. Is that all that means there?

that and they need good game play around it, sonic , shadow, blaze, tails, or whoever you like while cool only have so much depth, you good game play to spread that out.

I really think they should try shadow in a combat system, he literally has all the powers necessary to make an awesome action game.

Then you can expand the brand, and monay~

Like my main man wario

< Exspand the brand make money

 

[Littlegator]

That monkey shouldn't have a wet snout. This upsets me.

it's just their analogue for the other catch phrase

from
"I'm coo coo for coco puffs"
to
"I'm wet for cocoa krispies"

 

[Zen_Arcade]

Please give my example, please.
Because It sounds like you just don't like modern sonic, and you can think of a reason.

I just youtubed the cutscenes from Sonic Colors and his first line of dialogue is how "Epic" something is. Then in the next scene he makes a joke about how the elevator hes on isn't faster then he is. The rest of what I watched was all cringe worthy dialogue about how how good he was at beating
bosses, and generally being snotty to people around him (like the aliens).

Part of it is that its just absolutely horrible
writing, but its horrible writing being written to convey a personality of "Look how cool I am and check out my attitude."

 

[SonicMegaDrive]

That monkey shouldn't have a wet snout. This upsets me.

Oh, I see how it is, you must be one of those weirdos who prefers the old mascot, Ogg.

Get over it, the 60's are over, gramps.

 

[Gunstar Ikari]

I'm probably the only one that likes the Sonic Battle artwork more than anything else.

Anyway, I have issues with both Classic and Modern Sonic (Classic is too pudgy, Modern is too lanky), but the Modern design is slightly better to me. I guess that it doesn't help that my view of Classic Sonic is influenced by watching lots of SatAM/AoSTH as a kid, where he is just as lame as his Modern counterpart.

 

[TheOGB]

Oh, I see how it is, you must be one of those weirdos who prefers the old mascot, Ogg.

Get over it, the 60's are over, gramps.

Holy cow, H.R. Pufnstuf

I've only been alive for 2 decades and I remember seeing H.R. Pufnstuf

I'm probably the only one that likes the Sonic Battle artwork more than anything else.

I wouldn't say "more than anything else," but I loved Sonic Battle. How it looked, how it played... that was my shit.

 

[Village]

I just youtubed the cutscenes from Sonic Colors and his first line of dialogue is how "Epic" something is. Then in the next scene he makes a joke about how the elevator hes on isn't faster then he is. The rest of what I watched was all cringe worthy dialogue about how how good he was at beating
bosses, and generally being snotty to people around him (like the aliens).

Part of it is that its just absolutely horrible
writing, but its horrible writing being written to convey a personality of "Look how cool I am and check out my attitude."

Hmm, so he uses current dailect he is a douche bag, he is impatient like you described he is a douche bag, he is confident, he a douche bag and has horrible writing.

And you pick the one of the best games with back and for sonic tails conversations of all time.

Then you keep saying how he is supposed to be written , when he was written even more like that in the 90's in the cartoons. The things that were supposed to get you to play the games. And In the anime's.


Something Existing in the 90's does not make it automatically better than something existing now.

I'm probably the only one that likes the Sonic Battle artwork more than anything else.



Anyway, I have issues with both Classic and Modern Sonic (Classic is too pudgy, Modern is too lanky), but the Modern design is slightly better to me, at least. I guess that it doesn't help that my view of Classic Sonic is influenced by watching lots of SatAM/AoSTH as a kid, where he is just as lame as his Modern counterpart.

No the sonic battle art is dope, the game was cool and the game was good. But alot of non sega sonic games get the non cannon shaft, and this one and the dark knights got it. Though that deserved it, this didn't.

 

[Combichristoffersen]

that and they need good game play around it, sonic , shadow, blaze, tails, or whoever you like while cool only have so much depth, you good game play to spread that out.

I really think they should try shadow in a combat system, he literally has all the powers necessary to make an awesome action game.

Then you can expand the brand, and monay~

Like my main man wario

< Exspand the brand make money

Well...

 

[TheOGB]

Well...

He's saying Platinum Games should make a sequel

 

[Village]

He's saying Platinum Games should make a sequel

I would actually like for istuno to do this one, I think his take on this would be cool, he did dmc3 and 4 those combat systems were amazing. One of the few times I want capcom to do something non fighting game related.

Also then everyone who hates shadow will be fine, because he wont be in sonic games
erry bodeh win

 

[jstripes]

Also, you're crazy for trying to dictate what 'cool' is or how to properly 'express' it. 'Cool' to me, personally, isn't a bunch of gangly characters posing in ridiculous ways, grinding rails and being backed by butt rock, but that clearly resonated with newer generations of people, and so here we are. I grew up in the 90s and I like what Sonic was when it was made for me. You're just clearly not familiar with what the 90s were and what Sonic was in light of rivals like Mario and every other mascot hero.

You don't have a monopoly on the '90s.

In my opinion, SA era Sonic was a very good redesign. I prefer that design. I never really liked the short, big-bellied Sonic, even if it was (and still is) more appropriate for sprites. He was so easy for artists to get horribly wrong.

 

[Gunstar Ikari]

I wouldn't say "more than anything else," but I loved Sonic Battle. How it looked, how it played... that was my shit.

No the sonic battle art is dope, the game was cool and the game was good. But alot of non sega sonic games get the non cannon shaft, and this one and the dark knights got it. Though that deserved it, this didn't.

Yep, Battle was pretty good. A sequel with more refined mechanics and a larger cast could've been great, but alas.

 

[Village]

Yep, Battle was pretty good. A sequel with more refined mechanics and a larger cast could've been great, but alas.

I would by that, actually why isnt their a new sonic fighting game, that would be cool.

Nights and Reala would be DLC because everything has dlc nowadays.

 

[infinityBCRT]

This is what I see when I see the *new* Sonic. Seems like it was designed by committee.

Also kind of reminds me of the changes they made to Huey, Dewey, and Louie from Duck Tales to Quack Pack... theres a reason Quack Pack only lasted on air for 1 season.

to

 

[Village]

This is what I see when I see the *new* Sonic. Seems like it was designed by committee.

Also kind of reminds me of the changes they made to Huey, Dewey, and Louie from Duck Tales to Quack Pack... theres a reason Quack Pack only lasted on air for 1 season.

to

Funny I think of the 90's one and his cartoons.


There is a reason why limitless is THE sonic theme song at the point, and the comics are selling more than they were, and when new sonic was introduced that's when people considered the comics readable. And sonic X still airs. And Shadow the hedgehog was 10 points away from being the most popular sonic character period.
I could go on, but you get my point

 

[SonicMegaDrive]

to

Whoa...what happened to Uncle Scrooge?

Did..did they kill him?

 

[Tanolen]

Whoa...what happened to Uncle Scrooge?

Did..did they kill him?

Turns out you can't swim through gold bullion.

 

[Zen_Arcade]

Hmm, so he uses current dailect he is a douche bag, he is impatient like you described he is a douche bag, he is confident, he a douche bag and has horrible writing.

And you pick the one of the best games with back and for sonic tails conversations of all time.

http://i428.photobucket.com/albums/qq6/absalommarshall/
shadowwhatareyoutalkingabout_zpsc5537302.jpg

Then you keep saying how he is supposed to be written , when he was written even more like that in the 90's in the cartoons. The things that were supposed to get you to play the games. And In the anime's.

Something Existing in the 90's does not make it automatically better than something
existing now.

First off that first paragraph is so jumbled I don't even understand what you're trying to say.

Second off, cartoons are not good arguments to represent video games. They're constantly tweaked to be different. I sure as hell dont remember Brock and Misty following me around in Pokemon.

Again, its Hollywood tweaking Sonic into being something they thought was more
marketable. Which didn't go over to well considering that terrible cartoon only went
like 20 some episodes. People didn't exactly like his attitude then either.

Maybe that was the beginning of his transformation into the character he is now. But that doesnt mean he's not annoying. His annoying personality is something plenty of people site when they say they don't like the new games.

 

[infinityBCRT]

Whoa...what happened to Uncle Scrooge?

Did..did they kill him?

No idea. But I doubt they killed him. I don't really remember if there was a real conclusion to Duck Tales.

I didn't remember Quack Pack at first when I found it on wikipedia a few days ago, but then after watching a little bit of an episode on youtube, I quickly remembered why I barely remembered this show-- it was so terrible and unbearable.

 

[SonicMegaDrive]

Turns out you can't swim through gold bullion.

Curse me kilts!

Also, is it just me, or does it seem like Donald's nephews look like they really enjoy listening to Pearl Jam? When was this cartoon made?

 

[Combichristoffersen]

Whoa...what happened to Uncle Scrooge?

Did..did they kill him?

Missing, presumed dead

Spoiler

It's an unofficial drawing Don Rosa made for a Duck fan magazine or something like that.

 

[TheMagician]

Personally I hate the newer Sonic designs. They wreak too much of 'trying to be cool/edgy'.

The original design was far superior and got the balance between cool and design just right.

 

[Seven Force]

Curse me kilts!

Also, is it just me, or does it look like Donald's nephews look like they really enjoy listening to Pearl Jam? When was this cartoon made?

Late 90s, I think?

Weird thing is, the designs sort of stuck around for a while when they did that House of Mouse cartoon.

 

[TheOGB]

Yep, Battle was pretty good. A sequel with more refined mechanics and a larger cast could've been great, but alas.

I would by that, actually why isnt their a new sonic fighting game, that would be cool.

Nights and Reala would be DLC because everything has dlc nowadays.

Obviously, the answer is Sonic & Sega All-Stars Fighting Megamix.

 

[Shadow Hog]

Oh, I see how it is, you must be one of those weirdos who prefers the old mascot, Ogg.

Get over it, the 60's are over, gramps.

Nah, he can just move on to a chocolate-flavored puffed rice cereal that's still represented by cavemen.

 

[TheMagician]

Whoa...what happened to Uncle Scrooge?

Did..did they kill him?

I'm not sure.

*cuts to a pair of duck feet being dragged across sand*

 

[Village]

First off that first paragraph is so jumbled I don't even understand what you're trying to say.

Second off, cartoons are not good arguments to represent video games. They're constantly tweaked to be different. I sure as hell dont remember Brock and Misty following me around in Pokemon.

Again, its Hollywood tweaking Sonic into being something they thought was more
marketable. Which didn't go over to well considering that terrible cartoon only went
like 20 some episodes. People didn't exactly like his attitude then either.

Maybe that was the beginning of his transformation into the character he is now. But that doesnt mean he's not annoying. His annoying personality is something plenty of people site when they say they don't like the new games.

Its about your words on sonic colors

• Hmm, so he uses current dailect he is a douche bag,
  
• he is impatient like you described he is a douche bag,
  
• he is confident, he a douche bag and has horrible writing.

Plenty of people dont like alot of things, not everyone likes everything.


Are you trying to argue that most people agree, with you and everyone else is a minority.

Also sonic has two comic books, one of which many people don't consider to be started until new sonic kicked in. Along with sonic x still airing and his games still selling.

 

[Hot Coldman]

Turns out you can't swim through gold bullion.

 

[SonicMegaDrive]

Late 90s, I think?

Weird thing is, the designs sort of stuck around for a while when they did that House of Mouse cartoon.

Odd.

Disney always was behind the curve when it came to understanding how to market to boys.

 

[TheMagician]

Its about your words on sonic colors

• Hmm, so he uses current dailect he is a douche bag,
  
• he is impatient like you described he is a douche bag,
  
• he is confident, he a douche bag and has horrible writing.

Plenty of people dont like alot of things, not everyone likes everything.


Are you trying to argue that most people agree, with you and everyone else is a minority.

Also sonic has two comic books, one of which many people don't consider to be started until new sonic kicked in. Along with sonic x still airing and his games still selling.

Maybe the comics were just better. Like how you said the games were just better when the old Sonic design was used.

 

[Hot Coldman]

Odd.

Disney always was behind the curve when it came to understanding how to market to boys.

That's why they bought Marvel!

 

[Village]

Obviously, the answer is Sonic & Sega All-Stars Fighting Megamix.

I dunno about that, see they did that with project X but sonic and crew aren't to be seen.

I think the the sonic characters nights billy and other more cartoony franchises should fight each other, UNLESS, Sega vs Capcom actually happens. Then get errybody.

Maybe the comics were just better. Like how you said the games were just better when the old Sonic design was used.

While there comic versions were, are and still WAY better than the games. The new sonic let the do different things, some bad,Ken Penders.... some good, Ken Penders. But the comics went, adventure, and for the comics it worked very very well. I think honestly if in game sonic were more like that no one would complain.

But that's a whole other conversation about making a character important and giving them a full fledged personality.

And that's another forum hell.

 

[TheOGB]

But Project X Zone is an RPG featuring two other companies

I mean more what you said right after that