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[Amir0x]

Have you played them? If the games are good, why does the number on the end matter?

Wow.

Ok, first of all - we have had 5 Megaman Battle Networks in the last 5 years (when this last one comes out). All of them are near mirror images of the previous. Megaman Battle Network 4 or 5 or 6 (<<future watch) does not break this trend. What does a number indicate? Well, it's one thing if it's Supergame 6 and the games have been seperated by 12 years of development tiem, each with significantly different or altered focuses. It's quite another when it's one game per year, and the games are pretty much the same thing. So, again, what does a number indicate in this case? It indicates a lack of creativity, stagnation in design, limited development time and, worst of all, a now stale concept in dire need of rejuvination.

Now, I'm not hard to please. I don't look ill on endless sequels most of the time (I don't mind Resident Evil 4, Devil May Cry 3... and I don't mind game #4 in a series if it's got a different focus - ala Jak X Racing, ala Ratchet Deadlocked. I also don't mind Final Fantasy [Numbered], because each one is swamped with extensive development time and the emphasis and story is often drastically different than the previous one. Battle systems also change from game to game.), but Capcom is being awful with Megaman Battle Network and Zero series. So while the core game may still be fundamentally solid, at the end of the day we could have been just fine with Megaman Battle Network 2 and then waited for a much bigger jump in design.

 

[jarrod]

Gah, don't try to defend the horrific Gamecube lineup. But I agree wholeheartedly with the double standard (about GTA being enough to boost the score, but not Zelda) and about the PSP not deserving a B (give it a C-).

Well, I was just pointing out the similarities. PSP & GC had practically even E3 lineups, one giant killer app and bunch of filler ports or low tier exclusives. I'd give both platforms a "C+" myself though, based on what the media's brought us.

First of all, I don't think derivative Megaman milk-ins at number 5 and 4 in less years is really enough to pump up the lineup.

Quality games always help a lineup. I see plenty of people suggesting the same for Onimusha 4, POP3, Madden 06, Splinter Cell 4, Soul Calibur 3 and others regularly.

Secondly, the underlined games are already out or were just about out at the time of E3 and thus not a good indication of what the future of the system will offer - the whole purpose of E3, imho.

None of the games I listed had seen release as of E3, they were all future releases. I left out featured E3 games that had (like Pokemon Emerald or Mario Party Advance).

And finally, a redesign has no barring on the quality of its game lineup or GBAs showing. Especially one that adds no features whatsoever and just shrinks it down for the "image conscious consumer." If PSTwo debuted at E3, do we give PS2 showing bonus points or something?

I disagree, I think we're talking strength of the product line overall here. The micro revision is nothing but positive news for GBA's future.

 

[jarrod]

Ok, first of all - we have had 5 Megaman Battle Networks in the last 5 years (when this last one comes out). All of them are near mirror images of the previous. Megaman Battle Network 4 or 5 or 6 (<<future watch) does not break this trend.

Actually there's a pretty significant shift as of MMBN4. They even redrew all the non-battle sprite assets... there's just as substantial a difference between MMBN3 and MMBN4 as there is DMC2 and DMC3 or Onimusha 2 and Onimusha 3.

 

[Amir0x]

Well, I was just pointing out the similarities. PSP & GC had practically even E3 lineups, one giant killer app and bunch of filler ports or low tier exclusives. I'd give both platforms a "C+" myself though, based on what the media's brought us.

Right. Well, C- for me for both.

Quality games always help a lineup. I see plenty of people suggesting the same for Onimusha 4, POP3, Madden 06, Splinter Cell 4, Soul Calibur 3 and others regularly.

Wait, they showed Splinter Cell 4? Holy crap, I have missed that. Soul Calibur 3 is not the same as Megaman Battle Network 5, as there have not been a new Soul Calibur game every single year for the last 5 years. It's also host to a slew of new major concepts, such as create a fighter. So it's also not stale because of this. I can't account for Onimusha 4, but supposedly that has a much different slant too. Same goes for Madden 2006, which has had its biggest improvements in freakin' five+ years (I'm not touching POP3 though, hehehe). It's not about having a big number, it's about making sure the concept isn't stale and that you're significantly changing and altering concepts. Megaman Zero and Megaman Battle Network are cheap cash-ins for Capcom at this point, and they no longer have any of the luster they once had. This is because it has grown stale.

Obviously I'm speaking for myself in terms of quality, but accepting this automatically forces you to the sidelines when speaking about milking. It's just awful.

None of the games I listed had seen release as of E3, they were all future releases. I left out featured E3 games that had (like Pokemon Emerald or Mario Party Advance).

Wario Ware was released less than a week after E3 ended, as did Fire Emblem:TSS. I think it counts toward what I said for sure.

I disagree, I think we're talking strength of the product line overall here. The micro revision is nothing but positive news for GBA's future.

We're not talking about freakin' sales trends here, jarrod. The GBA Micro is not positive in any remote way when talkin' about future games, as it's just a smaller revision with a brighter screen for crackball consumer whores and "image conscious" lol) people. It has no impact on the quality of the titles we see for the system.

Actually there's a pretty significant shift as of MMBN4. They even redrew all the non-battle sprite assets... there's just as substantial a difference between MMBN3 and MMBN4 as there is DMC2 and DMC3 or Onimusha 2 and Onimusha 3.

No, jarrod. Just...no. Not even close. The gameplay is exactly the same (hyperbole), and the visuals look almost exactly the same. Don't even try to use some half-cocked Pokemon argument here because Megaman Battle Network games are the most remarkably similar titles from game to game OF ALL TIME. It's pathetic. If redrawing non-battle (ahaha, shows what I know... I didn't even notice that) sprites and, uh, whatever that system was called (forget what it's called... about Megamans mood) are the biggest improvements you need to go the fuck back to the drawing board. It's really silly to see you making excuses when it's convenient.

And just you see I'm not alone here, a quote from Gamespots MMBN4 review...

For the last few years, Capcom has been toeing the line between sequel and rehash with its Mega Man Battle Network series. The graphics, audio, and basic game design haven't changed much since the first game, and the battle setup has undergone only a few modest improvements with each successive installment. Mega Man Battle Network 4 continues the trend, but this time around, the upgrades are so minor that there really isn't much here that wasn't done just as well in the previous game. Furthermore, the story is lifeless, and the circa-2001 graphics and audio just don't cut it anymore.

And the review trends...

MMBN 1 - 81.1%
MMBN 2 - 81.6%
MMBN 3 - 77.2%
MMBN 4 - 72.2%
MMBN 5 - 70.0%

Notice how it keeps going down? Because the concept is stale and the CASH IN GARBAGE from Capcom is no longer enough.

 

[Sapiens]

Well, it's only EGM, if you think about it. One publication. Ziff, in general, has fallen off the face of the world for me.

At least gamespot gave the DS proper recognition. Sigh, I really miss Milkman's mail feature at gamespot.

Anyways, If I had to give it ago, just from what I read about;


PS2: B
XBOX: F
GC: F
PSP: F
GBA: F
DS: B

And this is coming from a consumer who owns all of these systems.

 

[jarrod]

Soul Calibur 3 is not the same as Megaman Battle Network 5, as there have not been a new Soul Calibur game every single year for the last 5 years. It's also host to a slew of new major concepts, such as create a fighter. So it's also not stale because of this.

No, but we're getting a new SC every 2 years from here on out.

Also, there's significant revisions and additions within the MMBN forumla in terms of mechanics, management and customization. Same as Madden, Street Fighter, Dynasty Warriors, Winning Eleven or any other annual series really. Your issue seems to be more with frequency of releases rather than progression, again the shift between MMBN3 to MMBN4 is just as dramatic as SC2 to SC3 or DMC2 to DMC3. It just happens annually rather than bi-annually.

Wario Ware was released less than a week after E3 ended, as did Fire Emblem:TSS. I think it counts toward what I said for sure.

Sure, but what you said holds little substance. They were undeniably still a part of "the future lineup" even if they were releasing just weeks later. Your subjective cut-off date or whatever is meaningless in this context.

We're not talking about freakin' sales trends here, jarrod. The GBA Micro is not positive in any remote way when talkin' about future games, as it's just a smaller revision with a brighter screen for crackball consumer whores and "image conscious" lol) people. It has no impact on the quality of the titles we see for the system.

It goes to show Nintendo's future commitment to the platform, which in turn is just as vital to it's long term success as whatever game were on display. GBA's going to outlast Xbox and probably GameCube, Micro is a good indicator of that.

No, jarrod. Just...no. Not even close. The gameplay is exactly the same, and the visuals look almost exactly the same. If redrawing sprites and, uh, whatever that system was called (forget what it's called) are the biggest improvements you need to go the fuck back to the drawing board. It's really silly to see you making excuses when it's convenient.

You don't need to reinvent the wheel every time... and with the core mechanics might be the same between installments, there's plenty of difference in sequels yet.

All this is really beside the point. Fact is, a good game is still a good game. Period.

 

[jarrod]

Well, my subjective platform grades...

PS2: A-
XBOX: C
GC: C+
PSP: C+
GBA: B-
DS: A-

 

[echoshifting]

Man, what a great thread. WTG EGM!!! :lol

 

[Amir0x]

No, but we're getting a new SC every 2 years from here on out.

Also, there's significant revisions and additions within the MMBN forumla in terms of mechanics, management and customization. Same as Madden, Street Fighter, Dynasty Warriors, Winning Eleven or any other annual series really. Your issue seems to be more with frequency of releases rather than progression, again the shift between MMBN3 to MMBN4 is just as dramatic as SC2 to SC3 or DMC2 to DMC3. It just happens annually rather than bi-annually.

No, it's about how pathetic the cash-in is for MMBN. It's not a good series anymore. It's wallowed into irrelevance because of Capcoms insistence on milking it for all its worth. And, uh, some of those examples you listed ARE in the same boat. So I don't think the page is much different. If those series decided to come back and actually change things, it'd be good.

Sure, but what you said holds little substance. They were undeniably still a part of "the future lineup" even if they were releasing just weeks later. Your subjective cut-off date or whatever is meaningless in this context.

Subjective cut-out or not, because they were basically out in a week (and the magazines had probably already had review copies for weeks before), they probably had less significance than other titles

It goes to show Nintendo's future commitment to the platform, which in turn is just as vital to it's long term success as whatever game were on display. GBA's going to outlast Xbox and probably GameCube, Micro is a good indicator of that.

Again, this is not about freakin' sales trends or PS2 gets a A++++++ (1000% score), and, Microsoft Xbox would have got from C to B+ judging from the recent trends. This is about game support, and it's obvious developers are switching gears and that Gameboy is on its last leg comparative to, say, NDS. I'm sure it'll sell well, don't get me wrong. But selling power is not the criteria used to judge how well the system performed.

You don't need to reinvent the wheel every time... and with the core mechanics might be the same between installments, there's plenty of difference in sequels yet.

All this is really beside the point. Fact is, a good game is still a good game. Period.

Oh, I see. Well, I hope you never say another fucking thing about developers milking series in the negative again because that would make you a hypocrite from here on out. I have a decent memory.

From Gamespots Review:

For the last few years, Capcom has been toeing the line between sequel and rehash with its Mega Man Battle Network series. The graphics, audio, and basic game design haven't changed much since the first game, and the battle setup has undergone only a few modest improvements with each successive installment. Mega Man Battle Network 4 continues the trend, but this time around, the upgrades are so minor that there really isn't much here that wasn't done just as well in the previous game. Furthermore, the story is lifeless, and the circa-2001 graphics and audio just don't cut it anymore.

And the review trends...

MMBN 1 - 81.1%
MMBN 2 - 81.6%
MMBN 3 - 77.2%
MMBN 4 - 72.2%
MMBN 5 - 70.0%

Notice how it keeps going down? Because the concept is stale and the CASH IN GARBAGE from Capcom is no longer enough.

 

[jarrod]

No, it's about how pathetic the cash-in is for MMBN. It's not a good series anymore. It's wallowed into irrelevance because of Capcoms insistence on milking it for all its worth. And, uh, some of those examples you listed ARE in the same boat. So I don't think the page is much different. If those series decided to come back and actually change things, it'd be good.

Again, you seem fundamentally unable to distinguish between frequency and progression. Maybe actually playing some of these games would help?

Subjective cut-out or not, because they were basically out in a week (and the magazines had probably already had review copies for weeks before), they probably had less significance than other titles

So? That doesn't somehow render these games insignificant. They were a part of GBA's future lineup as of E3 and should be treated as such.

Again, this is not about freakin' sales trends or PS2 gets a A++++++ (1000% score), and, Microsoft Xbox would have got from C to B+ judging from the recent trends. This is about game support, and it's obvious developers are switching gears and that Gameboy is on its last leg comparative to, say, NDS. I'm sure it'll sell well, don't get me wrong. But selling power is not the criteria used to judge how well the system performed.

For the final time, I'm not saying manufacturer commitment speaks towards sales trends, so you can just drop that tangent. The Micro speaks to Nintendo's future commitment to the GBA line and it's future viability as a platform. Just like PSone did for SCEI. That doesn't mean GBA isn't past it's prime, but that does mean it's going to be a viable platform for publishers and consumers for the foreseeable future. That's positive news, not simply from a sales perspective. It means GBA actaully has a future in todays game market really.

Oh, I see. Well, I hope you never say another fucking thing about developers milking series in the negative again because that would make you a hypocrite from here on out. I have a decent memory.

From Gamespots Review:



And the review trends...

MMBN 1 - 81.1%
MMBN 2 - 81.6%
MMBN 3 - 77.2%
MMBN 4 - 72.2%
MMBN 5 - 70.0%

Notice how it keeps going down? Because the concept is stale and the CASH IN GARBAGE from Capcom is no longer enough.

Where did I say Capcom wasn't milking here? I'm just saying there's more progression within these series than you're giving them credit for and that they're solid, well made game releases. Good games are never a bad thing.

 

[Amir0x]

Again, you seem fundamentally unable to distinguish between frequency and progression. Maybe actually playing some of these games would help?

Well, now you've devolved into asshat territory. Is it possible for you to be any more foolish?

So? That doesn't somehow render these games insignificant. They were a part of GBA's future lineup as of E3 and should be treated as such.

Did I say insignificant? No, Wario Ware Twisted is one of the best handheld games of all time, and Fire Emblem Sacred Stones is great. I'm simply telling you the reason it gets less "clout" comparative to other future titles.

For the final time, I'm not saying manufacturer commitment speaks towards sales trends, so you can just drop that tangent. The Micro speaks to Nintendo's future commitment to the GBA line and it's future viability as a platform. Just like PSone did for SCEI. That doesn't mean GBA isn't past it's prime, but that does mean it's going to be a viable platform for publishers and consumers for the foreseeable future. That's positive news, not simply from a sales perspective. It means GBA actaully has a future in todays game market really.

Jesus, jarrod, stay on the topic. These ratings are about future game lineup. They are not in any way, shape or form about how much Nintendo wants to keep supporting the thing in the future with shitty revisions. It's not about viability, it's not about commitment. It's about the fucking games THAT WERE REVEALED! For the record, PSOne would not have helped improved PlayStation 1s E3 grade either!

We had a group of games. Micro does absolutely nothing to improve these games, or nothing to improve the type of titles coming in the future. Therefore, it has no place in a ranking derived from how promising future titles are. Since, once more, Micro does not help make the future lineup any more promising.

Now before you try to read in it too much, as is your want, read what I said many times before you decide to make a statement that is even more off tune than before. I'll put it simply here, in case you want a summary: The score is not derived from the type of future the GBA has in the market. It is derived from the type of potential the library revealed at E3 has. Therefore, Micro has zero affect on this grade.

Where did I say Capcom wasn't milking here? I'm just saying there's more progression within these series than you're giving them credit for and that they're solid, well made game releases. Good games are never a bad thing.

No, they're not good games anymore. It was a promising series that have now devolved into pointless milking, and hey what do you know - it seems people agree with me. Naturally that doesn't make me right or wrong, but you're fighting a losing battle here jarrod. No, there is not more progression than I am giving it credit for. Capcom needs to go back to the drawing board BADLY, because the concept is now stale. Pretty simple.

 

[jarrod]

Well, now you've devolved into asshat territory. Is it possible for you to be any more foolish?

Just saying. You seem to be looking more at release dates than content here.

Did I say insignificant? No, Wario Ware Twisted is one of the best handheld games of all time, and Fire Emblem Sacred Stones is great. I'm simply telling you the reason it gets less "clout" comparative to other future titles.

You implied it. In fact you implied both games were so insignificant they basically count for nothing... due only to their release dates. Seems a pretty fruitless argument to even suggest really, it's so fundamentally flawed.

Jesus, jarrod, stay on the topic. These ratings are about future game lineup. They are not in any way, shape or form about how much Nintendo wants to keep supporting the thing in the future with shitty revisions. It's not about viability, it's not about commitment. It's about the fucking games. For the record, PSOne would not have helped improved PlayStation 1s E3 grade either!

We had a group of games. Micro does absolutely nothing to improve these games, or nothing to improve the type of titles coming in the future. Therefore, it has no place in a ranking derived from how promising future titles are. Since, once more, Micro does not help make the future lineup any more promising.

Well, I'm arguing these things aren't mutually exclusive... and really, these ratings are about each of the platforms E3 performance. Future game lineups, manufacturer commitment and market viablity all have a hand it determining a platform's future success, not simply just playable games releasing more than 2 weeks after E3.

Now before you try to read in it too much, as is your want, read what I said many times before you decide to make a statement that is even more off tune than before. I'll put it simply here, in case you want a sumary: The score is not derived from the type of future the GBA has in the market. It is derived from the type of potential the library revealed at E3 has. Therefore, Micro has zero affect on this grade.

Did EGM say this though? Specifically? What exactly were their express criteria for rating each platform's E3 performance?

No, they're not good games anymore. It was a promising series that have now devolved into pointless milking, and hey what do you know - it seems people agree with me. Naturally that doesn't make me right or wrong, but you're fighting a losing battle here jarrod. No, there is not more progression than I am giving it credit for. Capcom needs to go back to the drawing board BADLY, because the concept is now stale. Pretty simple.

How many people agree with you? The elite gaming media, who rarely give high marks to GBA content, or the millions of consumers who play and enjoy these games every year? Are you suggesting GS review scores are the mark of absolute quality, the voice of popular opinion and that these gradual drops indicate an undeniable lack of progression? Have you actually played each one of these games youself, to completion? I'm trying to understand exactly how you've come to these conclusions... significant experience or are you just looking at release dates and a review site?

 

[CrimsonSkies]

Beautiful irony: you complain about "bias", then proceed to list two of your three favorite magazines as "Official" ones -- magazines literally bankrolled by Sony and Microsoft, respectively.

I buy the official magazines for platforms due to the demo disc McFly. Also I understand they have a slant, but at least they don't hide it by calling themselves multiplatform ahah. Classic post. :lol

 

[Amir0x]

You implied it. In fact you implied both games were so insignificant they basically count for nothing... due only to their release dates. Seems a pretty fruitless argument to even suggest really, it's so fundamentally flawed.

I implied that since this is a magazine that had access to these games for review before E3, it's possible that the clout of these games is significantly diminished for them. Not that they aren't great, but that it's more of a "here and now" thing and less of a "future and then."

Well, I'm arguing these things aren't mutually exclusive... and really, these ratings are about each of the platforms E3 performance. Future game lineups, manufacturer commitment and market viablity all have a hand it determining a platform's future success, not simply just playable games releasing more than 2 weeks after E3.

jarrod. We keep going in circles. This is about future game lineups. I mean, what you're basically doing is predicting based on E3 how good the future lineup MAY be, because Nintendo is committed and because Micro is here. This is weak for a number of reasons, not least because we can already see from E3 that GBA support is cooling off in favour of NDS or PSP and because it's a prediction. And we all know how good predictions are.

Did EGM say this though? Specifically? What exactly were their express criteria for rating each platform's E3 performance?

I don't know, I don't have the magazine. I assume games is like 95% of the score since MarkMacD suggested GTA alone was enough to significantly boost PSPs appeal.

How many people agree with you? The elite gaming media, who rarely give high marks to GBA content, or the millions of consumers who play and enjoy these games every year? Are you suggesting GS review scores are the mark of absolute quality and these gradual drops indicate an undeniable lack of preogression? Have you actually played each one of these games youself? I'm trying to understand exactly how you've come to these conclusions... significant experience or are you just looking at release dates and a review site?

Uh oh, here we go. Is this a trademark fanboy rant about how the ELITE MEDIA hate is so biased and how UNFAIR they are toward everything you choose to love? I assume we agree that plenty of shitty games sell well (and this applies to all forms of entertainment). And as you know, a billion opinions combined don't make it any less of an opinion (thus, it's still a subjective determination from us both).

As I said, I liked Megaman Battle Network series at first. Plenty of promise. So naturally I went for the sequel, which I also thought was neat. The first jumping of the shark was when it split into two color (ala Pokemon) for the next games. Then the fact that there was so few changes really put me off (both visually and otherwise). So by MMBN3, the thing was wearing thin. I haven't played MMNB5, but MMBN4 was the straw that broke the camel's back for me. It was bad when the biggest change was Megaman Mood.

Now, could this change in the future? Of course. They could do big things with the series. But they have thus far decided to do nothing but cash-in on the same derivative formula with extremely minor changes, and this is offputting. Now, if MMBN5 was the first MMBN game you ever played, it probably wouldn't be so offensive. But I'm a hardcore gamer, and this is how I judge them.

 

[AniHawk]

Amir0x, just wait for MMBN 5.5. I hear it kicks ass.

 

[newsguy]

NCAA Footbal '06 (XB/PS2) - 9.5/9/9 (TIE GOTM)

The real deal. Slowdown be damned!

 

[Amir0x]

Amir0x, just wait for MMBN 5.5 I hear it kicks ass.

Oh oh, do we get three new battle chips? Perhaps we'll get a new character who secretly is working for NET DR. WILY!?

 

[AniHawk]

Oh oh, do we get three new battle chips? Perhaps we'll get a new character who secretly is working for NET DR. WILY!?

Dual. Screens.

 

[Amir0x]

Dual. Screens.

Holy crap!? Do we get a giant portrait of NET Megaman on the lower one?

 

[AniHawk]

Holy crap!? Do we get a giant portrait of NET Megaman on the lower one?

One can only hope.

 

[Revolver]

NCAA Football '06 (XB/PS2) - 9.5/9/9 (TIE GOTM)

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't NCAA Football '05 receive scores of 9, 9 and 9.5 along with GOTM in EGM last year? Turned out to be one of the worst football games I've played in recent memory. I really hope this year's game is good but after '05 I'm wary.

 

[DMczaf]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't NCAA Football '05 receive scores of 9, 9 and 9.5 along with GOTM in EGM last year? Turned out to be one of the worst football games I've played in recent memory. I really hope this year's game is good but after '05 I'm wary.

From IGN's full quarter videos, it seems like the game plays A LOT better. WRs dont drop WIDE open passes, no slowdown on xbox, the entire defense doesnt know where the ball is going right when the QB releases the pass. Nice stuff!

 

[Socreges]

If MarkMacD is interested in that many PSP games... and still gave the system two grades less than the DS, God knows what the other EGM staff had put.

Buh? Why'd GBA get a "D"? It had a sleek new redesign plus tons of great games (Gunstar Superheroes, Metal Slug 1, Screw Breaker, Rebelstar, MMBN5, MM Zero 4, Riviera, Fire Emblem TSS, Wario Ware Twisted, Dynasty Warriors, Mario Tennis, Harvest Moon, Scurge, Sigma Star Saga, Pirate Battle, Racing Gears 2, etc)

The GBA may have deserved better, but I don't see many of those games being "great", if even good.

 

[isamu]

RUMORS:

-Ridge Racer heading to Xbox 360 at launch (!!!)

Wario....I need you to do me a big favor....

I'm going to need you or anyone else to come to my house and hold down my arms. Because if this news is true I'm seriously going to do something harmful to myself out of sheer excitement.

 

[isamu]

*cough*

And that one in particular I'm inclined to take with a grain of salt. If nothing else, I'd imagine Namco offering Sony right of first refusal on a next-gen Ridge Racer after they proved their willingness to pay for the Soul Calibur 3 exclusive. (RR and Tekken are the two Namco series that are practically synonymous with the Playstation brand, and I'm sure both companies are aware of this. I suspect Sony would be willing to pay to keep things that way.) And if the higher-ups at Sony were offered such an arrangement by Namco, I can't really imagine them taking a pass on it. A game like R: Racing Evolution is one thing, but a true Ridge title is another matter entirely.

Sure, that's all speculation on my part, but it seems more believable to me than the alternative. We'll see one way or the other soon enough.

But dont you think if Microsoft wants the franchise to come out on 360 bad enough they will pay much more for it than Sony would to have them keep it on their console? Microsoft is fucking LOADED with cash and they have proven they will spend shitloads of it to get what they want in this industry. Look at how the tides have turned with regards to things like Sakaguchi leaving SE to come and work on XBOX games...and now even Squaresoft joing the MS bandwagon. MS can get *any* dev and franchise in IMHO.

 

[DCharlie]

"I'd imagine Namco offering Sony right of first refusal on a next-gen Ridge Racer after they proved their willingness to pay for the Soul Calibur 3 exclusive."

Brrr brrr...
Namco : "Hey Sony, hows it going - we got this hot franchise we want to offer you..."
Sony : "Really?? is it ridge again?"
Namco : "err... not quite... Soul Calibur"
Sony : ".... oh... err... how did SC2 do sales wise?"
Namco : "oh.... err ... fantastically well... a real system mover *sound of furious tippex on sales figures action*"
Sony : "well, sure - we'll double any other offer you've had from MS or Nintendo for exclusivity. How much did MS etc off you..."
Namco : "errr.... *shrug - tippex's out "$5 + a bag of nuts?" 200 million yen?"
Sony : "your on...."
*wires cash to namco*
Sony : "now... what about Ridge exclusivity?"
Bandai (ripping off Namco face mask) : "bwahahahaaaaa - are you f*cking crazy? we ain't tying ourselves to any of you shitty wankstains of companies - you can have our shitty stuff as exclusive at insane premiums and the good stuff will sell of it's own accord on ALL THREE SYSTEMS!!!! bwahahahaha..."
Sony : ".... but what about the awesome power of cell ?.... hello? Hellloooo?"

Nintendo to Bandai : "That's what you think BEATCH!"

 

[Rhindle]

The only one that I see that wasn't at E3 was Grandia 3. The others were there either in playable or trailer form.

Well, if you're going to count trailers, then PS3 won E3 2005 by a landslide.

 

[SolidSnakex]

MS can get *any* dev and franchise in IMHO.

Lets see them get Dragon Quest.

 

[AniHawk]

MS can get *any* dev and franchise in IMHO.

Kinda like those times when they got Nintendo, Sega, and Squaresoft.

 

[Tellaerin]

*laugh!* Alright, that was actually pretty funny. :lol

Like I said, we'll see. I know your optimism knows no bounds when it comes to Microsoft and the Xbox brand, DCharlie. As for me, I'm a little less inclined to take rumors like this on faith, no matter how many Xboxes MS donates to Japanese schools for 'educational purposes'.

 

[AniHawk]

Well, if you're going to count trailers, then PS3 won E3 2005 by a landslide.

Well yeah. PS3 was our first glimpse into next-gen.

 

[Amir0x]

Bandai (ripping off Namco face mask) : "bwahahahaaaaa - are you f*cking crazy? we ain't tying ourselves to any of you shitty wankstains of companies - you can have our shitty stuff as exclusive at insane premiums and the good stuff will sell of it's own accord on ALL THREE SYSTEMS!!!! bwahahahaha..."

I don't know about that... has any Ridge game been as critically acclaimed as Soul Calibur (DC)? For that matter, has any single Ridge game sold more than (besides the first, perhaps?), say, Soul Calibur II GC or PS2 (750,000+)? Not to diminish the importance of Ridge, cause that's one storied franchise that has a lot of power behind it... but I wouldn't call Soul Calibur "shitty stuff." Good joke all around, but in dire need of hyper analysis!

Kinda like those times when they got Nintendo, Sega, and Squaresoft.

And who knows if they received any of the big exclusive ones for next gen - Grand Theft Auto, a real numbered FF exclusive that isn't a port of a several year old MMORPG game, Dragon Quest, Winning Eleven, etc...

I mean, it appears to me that a lot of the recent decisions they've made were made on the entire basis that they couldn't secure some of the more (what we consider) essential worldwide franchises. MistWalker (filling the DQ-esque and FF-esque roles), RealTime (filling the GTA-esque role) seem to indicate this. Of course, I could be wrong and X05 could blow all our minds with surprise and intruige!

I know there's this myth that Microsoft (or any company with that much money) can just go on a buying spree and push their competitors away by sheer force. But the simple truth is, that's not how businesses work. Microsoft (and any other like company) has a billion other factors to consider, and yes they too have very real spending limits. And yes, they (and any other like company) can get outbid by competitors. It's not very difficult.

 

[AniHawk]

And who knows if they received any of the big exclusive ones for next gen - Grand Theft Auto, a real numbered FF exclusive that isn't a port of a several year old MMORPG game, Dragon Quest, Winning Eleven, etc...

I mean, it appears to me that a lot of the recent decisions they've made were made on the entire basis that they couldn't secure some of the more (what we consider) essential worldwide franchises. MistWalker (filling the DQ-esque and FF-esque roles), RealTime (filling the GTA-esque role) seem to indicate this. Of course, I could be wrong and X05 could blow all our minds with surprise and intruige!

I was only attacking the "any dev" part of that quote, as all three were in talks and backed out.

 

[Amir0x]

I was only attacking the "any dev" part of that quote, as all three were in talks and backed out.

And I was tag teaming with you and expanding on the point to include the exclusive game part of the quote

 

[Jonnyram]

Lets see them get Dragon Quest.

This one needs saving for when DQ Online is announced for 360.

 

[SolidSnakex]

I don't know about that... has any Ridge game been as critically acclaimed as Soul Calibur (DC)? For that matter, has any single Ridge game sold more than (besides the first, perhaps?), say, Soul Calibur II GC or PS2 (750,000+)? Not to diminish the importance of Ridge, cause that's one storied franchise that has a lot of power behind it... but I wouldn't call Soul Calibur "shitty stuff." Good joke all around, but in dire need of hyper analysis!

These are US only, but jett posted these awhile back

PS2 RIDGE RACER TYPE V Oct-00 NAMCO 177,829
PSX RIDGE RACER Sep-95 NAMCO 548,278
PSX RIDGE RACER TYPE 4 May-99 NAMCO 297,549
PSX RIDGE RACER4 W/JOGCON May-99 NAMCO 17,199
N64 RIDGE RACER 64 Feb-00 NINTENDO OF AMERICA 262,423
PSX RIDGE RACER REVOLUTN Sep-96 NAMCO 150,293

 

[AniHawk]

And I was tag teaming with you and expanding on the point to include the exclusive game part of the quote

Well I just like pointing out the obvious

Spoiler

and not sleeping for days on end.

 

[Jonnyram]

PS2 RIDGE RACER TYPE V Oct-00 NAMCO 177,829
N64 RIDGE RACER 64 Feb-00 NINTENDO OF AMERICA 262,423

owned :lol
At least the PSP version beat the DS version, right?

 

[Amir0x]

This one needs saving for when DQ Online is announced for 360.

MMORPG + DragonQuest + Japan = ULTIMATE WIN

 

[AniHawk]

owned :lol
At least the PSP version beat the DS version, right?

Wow. How the hell did that happen? I know the N64 had a bigger userbase, but I thought RRV was one of the better PS2 launch games?

 

[Dice]

http://img117.echo.cx/img117/5484/byplaymario6ef.gif

Those girls sure are excited about SMB.

 

[SolidSnakex]

Wow. How the hell did that happen? I know the N64 had a bigger userbase, but I though RRV was one of the better PS2 launch games?

To top that off, Midnight Club (which was a launch title also) sold over a million.

 

[Zeo]

Hm, Mega Man Zero adds enough to each entry that it's not just a rehash. It's what a sequel should be. Play MMZ1 and MMZ2, there's a pretty noticable difference.

Anyway, I don't think I did this yet:

PS2: B+
GC: B+
Xbox: F
DS: A-
PSP: D

For the hell of it..

X360: C
PS3: B-
Rev: C-

PS2 and GC had an equal ammount of games that I'm interested in, although I was TEMPTED to give GC an A-. I really thought GC had a nice collection of games shown. PS2 might have gotten an A- from me too if they actually had a playable FFXII or something. Xbox had nothing. Literally, nothing.

DS just wiped the floor with PSP, but really, as awesome as the DS lineup is, Sony just didn't DO anything for PSP. I don't get it.

 

[Tellaerin]

Wow. How the hell did that happen? I know the N64 had a bigger userbase, but I thought RRV was one of the better PS2 launch games?

Magazines and websites whining about jaggies and shimmer in the Japanese version in the months before release, and how the system was supposedly incapable of handling any kind of antialiasing? That might have helped. (RR V's my least-favorite title in the series--I just didn't like the way the cars felt, compared to earlier installments--but that's just me, and around here, I think it puts me in the minority.)

 

[jarrod]

jarrod. We keep going in circles. This is about future game lineups.

It is? Only about "future games lineup"? You sure? 100%?

I mean, what you're basically doing is predicting based on E3 how good the future lineup MAY be, because Nintendo is committed and because Micro is here. This is weak for a number of reasons, not least because we can already see from E3 that GBA support is cooling off in favour of NDS or PSP and because it's a prediction. And we all know how good predictions are.

No, I'm simply taking into account multiple factors to determine each platform's future potential and E3 performance. That's it really, I'm not sure how the Micro does anything but instill confidence in the GBA as a platform. And when you get down to it, that's what E3 is all about for Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft. So wouldn't it make more sense they were graded as such?

I don't know, I don't have the magazine. I assume games is like 95% of the score since MarkMacD suggested GTA alone was enough to significantly boost PSPs appeal.

I see. No assurances, just assumptions. And you seemed so certain just a paragraph up. :/

Uh oh, here we go. Is this a trademark fanboy rant about how the ELITE MEDIA hate is so biased and how UNFAIR they are toward everything you choose to love? I assume we agree that plenty of shitty games sell well (and this applies to all forms of entertainment). And as you know, a billion opinions combined don't make it any less of an opinion (thus, it's still a subjective determination from us both).
But you maintained that people agreed with you as justification for your narrow viewpoint. I'm just asking which people specifically, no need to damage control the inquisition.

Now, could this change in the future? Of course. They could do big things with the series. But they have thus far decided to do nothing but cash-in on the same derivative formula with extremely minor changes, and this is offputting. Now, if MMBN5 was the first MMBN game you ever played, it probably wouldn't be so offensive. But I'm a hardcore gamer, and this is how I judge them.

I dunno, I'd say "hardcore gamers" are more inclined to support incremental advancements and annual progression in a winning formula. Just look at Street Fighter, Metal Slug or Pokemon... MMBN has it's own similar hardcore fanbase. I'd suggest your perspective strikes more as a surprisingly... casual viewpoint on things.

Holy crap!? Do we get a giant portrait of NET Megaman on the lower one?

In full 3D even. Fun-shaded to boot!

Also maps. Which the MMBN games will seriously benefit from actually.

The GBA may have deserved better, but I don't see many of those games being "great", if even good.

How many though? And why not?

I don't know about that... has any Ridge game been as critically acclaimed as Soul Calibur (DC)?

The first RR got universally high marks across the board, it was actually PS1's biggest game for quite awhile. RRR got mostly ingored for being a retread and by the time Rage hit market, people had discovered Gran Turismo and couldn't care less about arcade racers anymore.

MS scoring RR 360 would be more of a symbolic victory than anything though. They want to make the impression that Xbox is "the new PlayStation", just as Sony made the impression that PlayStation was "the new Famicom".

This one needs saving for when DQ Online is announced for 360.

Why do you think TFLO was killed.

 

[sonycowboy]

These are US only, but jett posted these awhile back

PS2 RIDGE RACER TYPE V Oct-00 NAMCO 177,829
PSX RIDGE RACER Sep-95 NAMCO 548,278
PSX RIDGE RACER TYPE 4 May-99 NAMCO 297,549
PSX RIDGE RACER4 W/JOGCON May-99 NAMCO 17,199
N64 RIDGE RACER 64 Feb-00 NINTENDO OF AMERICA 262,423
PSX RIDGE RACER REVOLUTN Sep-96 NAMCO 150,293

The PS2 number is wrong.

 

[jarrod]

So what is the PS2 total then?

Also, happen to have numbers for Racing Evolution and the PS2 Moto GPs handy? And the DS/PSP Ridge Racers? It'd be nice to see everything up...

 

[TheDiave]

-Visually updated FFVII coming to PS3

Please come true! *drool*

 

[Ramirez]

Odnetnin
Banned

Oh and...

I.e. Dumping on Mario Party when it makes far more changes per version than say the standar EA roster update, not to say that Mario Party is the gold standard.

No,not even close.

 

[Amir0x]

Hm, Mega Man Zero adds enough to each entry that it's not just a rehash. It's what a sequel should be. Play MMZ1 and MMZ2, there's a pretty noticable difference.

Anyway, I don't think I did this yet:

PS2: B+
GC: B+
Xbox: F
DS: A-
PSP: D

For the hell of it..

X360: C
PS3: B-
Rev: C-

PS2 and GC had an equal ammount of games that I'm interested in, although I was TEMPTED to give GC an A-. I really thought GC had a nice collection of games shown. PS2 might have gotten an A- from me too if they actually had a playable FFXII or something. Xbox had nothing. Literally, nothing.

DS just wiped the floor with PSP, but really, as awesome as the DS lineup is, Sony just didn't DO anything for PSP. I don't get it.

GC was an A-? Really? Shit, it was a B+ on par with PS2? Four Mario games (MARIO PARTY 8, wooooo), Odama, Fire Emblem, Chibi Robo and ZELDA (this, of course, is worth a billion times its weight in Gold) were the big things.

A-? B+?

Shocking.