You bet that Nintendo won't show it this year since they are goi g to miss Xmas with it. So earliest January I believe they are going to show everything of.
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Emily Rogers: NX Not Using x86 Architecture - Won't Blow Away Current Gen Consoles
- Thread starter dancrane212
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You bet that Nintendo won't show it this year since they are goi g to miss Xmas with it. So earliest January I believe they are going to show everything of.
D
Deleted member 465307
Unconfirmed Member
Which tweets?
//DEVIL//
Member
my educated guess will be TGS.
Well technically it could but it'd have to be running an intel atom, which, yeah... not happening for a number of reasons.
and you what you contribute to this?, the guy got leaks and it became true, dont bash someone if you yourself dont do anything.
Kingsnake isn't wrong. Trev had his source, posted information that should have never been posted, and likely lost the source in the process. He may still have some contacts with folks, but his latest stuff has been opinion and speculation, which is fine. As long as people realize what is rumor and just opinion there isn't an issue. Kingsnake is entitled to his opinion that Trev's speculation is of poor quality.
the guy risk it all, and is bash just like that?, thats so wrong in my point of view. sorry but thats just what i feel.
What did he risk? He posted information in a very inexperienced and foolish manner. He put his source at risk. Not himself.
im so sad that someone needs to defend him here at what i said, so your favoring the guy playing safe and bashing someone rather than someone posting info that is true? ok case closed.
What are you talking about? Whatever he says now are not leaks, but his opinions and speculations. He got the right to express his opinions and I have the right to express my opinions about his opinions. What else do I need to do in addition?
It's not info, it's speculation. Ask him if you don't believe me. It's not leaked info.
What tweets?
EndlessFloydian
Member
Nintendo said themselves that more info would be released by the end of this year, so January is a no-go, unless they delay NX til Holiday 2017.
expeculation or not my point here at the very start is lets wait, we will never know what is the nx untill its released we will never know who's fake or not, give it a chance dude. be critical but be objective also. peace.
You didn't answer me, why can Trev express his opinion about it and I can't? Why doesn't Trev wait for the reveal?
Why?
Nintendo doesn't go to TGS.
Dark Cloud
Member
How?
Whyw? Hwow?
//DEVIL//
Member
You are right but this year I think they will.
Wait, so her sources are also saying Nvidia is involved now? Is this happening now?
They're a good fit, they both had pretty huge failed products with a focus on streaming after all. Don't really have any care in the world if the specs are "as good" as whatever, as long as it's powerful enough for ports and isn't a generation behind, I'm good. If it's anything like Wii U/3DS I'll probably stick to the portable anyway.
I sure hope Zelda is released on the portable :lol.
They're a good fit, they both had pretty huge failed products with a focus on streaming after all. Don't really have any care in the world if the specs are "as good" as whatever, as long as it's powerful enough for ports and isn't a generation behind, I'm good. If it's anything like Wii U/3DS I'll probably stick to the portable anyway.
I sure hope Zelda is released on the portable :lol.
I'm 100% sure they won't and it's too soon for NX.
Herb Alpert
Banned
TGS is too japanese centric
Checked last 2 video's from Tev, he is convinced it's x86.
I'm not saying it will be, but he makes allot of sense.
Dark Cloud
Member
It's not too soon. It just doesn't make the most sense. They need their own NX event.
Exterminieren
Banned
Not a chance in the world. It is impossible in this day and age to keep a console entirely under wraps until two months ahead of launch, and there's no benefit in even trying. What would an earlier reveal do, prevent the 800k sales of Wii U Nintendo are expecting this coming year?
Revealing the marketing budgets was idiocy. If risking it all means giving out hugely confidential information like that, then he absolutely shouldn't have.
If six months in advance is too soon, then the console is irreparably fucked.
They won't but TGS is important for the japanese market. All the japanese industry is there... well minus Nintendo.
Iwata gave a conference aside TGS in 2005 to reveal the wiimote.
The thing is, even if they don't go there, TGS hype can force them to release some actual information. It will be silly to remain silent, and almost looking like putting themselves outside the industry if they don't send a signal.
Yeah E3 is a different case. Domestic market is more important to Nintendo than sony. And the only 3rd parties they seek are the usual japanese ones. They have to let them doing their TGS without being tied with a NX blackout.
Cow Mengde
Banned
Wiimote was unveiled at TGS as I recall. I could be wrong, it's been quite a few years. I know it wasn't unveiled at E3 though. E3 was when people got to play the system.
I know, that's what I mean. A lot of people don't know that the PS2 numbers are theoretical and not based on actual in-game performance. Nintendo on the other hand gives specs based on real in-game scenarios. That's why on paper, the PS2 did sort of look better than the GC, but that was far from the truth.
People also like to tout that the GC was released a year after, so it has to be most powerful, when in fact, the system was finished around the time the PS2 was done, but the software was not, so they had to delay the system.
His reasoning is based on the idea that Nintendo must get all of the 3rd party games. And because The Division and FF XV use custom engines that work on X86 Nintendo must use X86.
When Nintendo will launch NX months away from those games.
Can we stop a bit and think about the absurdity of this? "Nintendo needs to use X86 because 3rd parties"
Nintendo uses whatever Nintendo needs for their own purposes. Best Nintendo market currently is handheld. X86 is shit for handheld.
So what would Nintendo prioritize? Handheld or The Division? Though choice, no?
Plus, if there is a commercial will, those engines will be adapted to work with ARM.
TGS has become more and more about mobile than anything related to dedicated systems that it's barely worth watching streams of it. If Nintendo goes to TGS, I feel it will just be about their mobile titles.
Cow Mengde
Banned
BTW, do we even have honest to goodness specs for the Wii and WiiU? All I heard is the RAM on the Wii with some other numbers like possible CPU speed, but nothing on the GPU speed, fill rate, FLOPS, or even good old fashion polygon count. I would still love to know what the polygon count was for the Wii even if it wasn't a huge leap over the GC.
I heard rumors of custom fixed function capabilities on the WiiU to make up for the lower specs, but to my knowledge, that's just pure speculation. I love to have some hard numbers on these two systems.
Actually, wouldn't hurt to know some numbers for the 3DS as well.
I heard rumors of custom fixed function capabilities on the WiiU to make up for the lower specs, but to my knowledge, that's just pure speculation. I love to have some hard numbers on these two systems.
Actually, wouldn't hurt to know some numbers for the 3DS as well.
I was just watching last Trev video and reading the comments :
Quote of Trev : " It's logical for Nintendo to use ARM for the handheld and x86 for the console".
So yes I think He is taking the handheld into consideration... It's the most logical choice for him to have full 3rd party games support and port from the handheld to the NX because it's easier porting up (from ARM to x86) than porting down.
To use the ARM in handheld and X86 in the console means they need to build the API to handle the translation between X86 and ARM for the shared library. But if they can build that in the API why not use ARM for both (which means native support for 1st party games) and let the API handle the games that don't support ARM natively. That in case they actually care about those.
blu
Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
Trev is pushing it a bit with the 'a lot of 3rd party AAA games use custom engines' statement, but is clearly wrong about the 're-optimise/recode engines from scratch'. Actually, the 'from scratch' part is absolutely not true.
An anecdote: I'm currently porting an amd64 pet-project of mine to arm64, where I had gone overboard with x86 intrinsics - original code was really game-engine-level-optimised, but for generic x86*, meaning it does both SSE and AVX. Since I want to keep the same level of generic optimisation on arm64, I'm meticulously changing amd64 intrinsics into arm64 intrinsics (alternatively, I could be dropping intrinsics altogether and get the port done in a fraction of the time, but I don't want to do that). But the changes I'm doing for the arm64 port are exactly in those isolated places where I've used the intrinsics, and the translation of the intrinsics themselves is fairly automatic. Curiously enough, I even spotted the other day on the web a fellow developer who had developed an automatic sse->neon conversion header for a subset of sse intrinsics he needed, so he could basically continue writing in sse intrinsics and get neon code generated automagically. So what I'm saying is that for engine code, the porting effort to get something generically-optimised for amd64 to the same level of generic optimisation on arm64 is much smaller than what Trev makes it out to be. Last but not least, engine maintenance is much more compact and is done by much fewer people than the actual games using the engine.
To reiterate something which has been repeated ad nauseam over the past few days: as long as NX has the performance bracket, arm64 is not an issue.
* generic x86 as in not targeting a particular uarch.
To be honest, Nintendo can be so stupid that probably it is an intel Atom.
Yeah sure it's absurd to want 3rd parties to get onboard, turn out great for the Wii U.
Handheld is their market because of the Wii U failure, not sure they want to keep things that way.
Thing is the release of the NX is in the middle of the generation, why 3rd party developers would want to put money for developing games for the NX when they can sell it for the PS4 and X1 install base. Maybe with x86 they will be onboard more easily and the NX will not have just some late ports like the Wii U had.
There's really no advantage or disadvantage between x86 and ARM for a gaming system. It's very easy to port between in this space, plus game engines support ARM already.
There's no real negative aspect for ARM in terms of 3rd parties, most of the 3rd parties developers have also mobile games, so they have the knowledge in house.
Read also Blu post on the page before, he's actually the resident specialist in CPUs around here.
Edit: to clarify, my post wasn't meant as a "Nintendo doesn't want 3rd parties", but rather as: Nintendo designs their system around Nintendo's needs, so choosing a config based on what other developers' engine are built on have a very low priority for them.
More Tegra speculation but as some had speculated before.
The X1 can run at up to 3GHz in a home console according to Nvidia so hypothetically Nintendo could run its next evolution at 500mhz and get 200tFLPs of power at a draw low enough for a handheld. Then run the same chip at 3GHz in the console and get 1.2tflps which would put its power window right where Emily is speculating that t would be (just above the Xbox 1)
The X1 can run at up to 3GHz in a home console according to Nvidia so hypothetically Nintendo could run its next evolution at 500mhz and get 200tFLPs of power at a draw low enough for a handheld. Then run the same chip at 3GHz in the console and get 1.2tflps which would put its power window right where Emily is speculating that t would be (just above the Xbox 1)
Yes okay, ARM doesn't sound bad but I hope we will have that shared library we all wish for.
Yes I know what you meant, and also that Nintendo do what they want/need but after the Wii U failure maybe there are willing to change their strategy since the NX should be a complete departure from Wii brand. I don't know, I just hope they know what they are doing...
If what Emily said about Nvidia being involved is true, i think all the pieces of information we have would fit together.
- AMD has 3 wins: 2 x86 and 1 arm, one of them goes beyond gaming. These are PS4 Neo, new Xbox One and (let's say) an Apple device. Neo and 1.5 technically aren't "new wins", but maybe it's something that they can spin (especially if the revisions use Polaris). It would also explain why they only expect 1.5b revenue from these.
- In late 2014-early 2015 (iirc), Nintendo was looking for Lead Graphic Engineer for Next-Gen Console. Experience with low power architecture was a bonus, and Nvidia GPUs are very power efficient (much more than AMD up to Maxwell vs GCN 1.2, we don't know about Pascal vs Polaris yet).
- LCGeek reported that the Nintendo NX CPU, while far from being a monster, is considerably more powerful than what the Xbox One and PS4 have.
- Emily Rogers said that the CPU isn't x86 and the specs on paper are closer to Xbox One than PS4, and "even that would be a stretch".
- If Nintendo went ARM+Nvidia, the above situation should be pretty clear even in the more pessimistic scenario. A 1tflop Nvidia GPU has lower numbers on paper but it absolutely destroys the Xbox One and comes pretty close to what the PS4 has (a 750ti, which is 1.3tflops, actually beats the PS4 in many situations as per Digital Foundry's tests). But isn't this a bit disappointing? A console that comes out in 2017 isn't considerably better in every way than two consoles that came out in late 2013? The answer should be yes, but there's another thing to consider: as we've seen many times, the CPU in the PS4 and Xbox One is a bottleneck, especially in certain scenarios. Nintendo hates bottlenecks, and especially after the harsh criticism they received for the Wii U CPU, they probably wanted to balance the new console in a way that the CPU would never be an issue compared to the performances of the GPU. So if the GPU is 1tflop Nvidia, it falls between X1 and PS4 in real world performances, but something like the much speculated 8 core ARM A72 2GHZ would never be a bottleneck for that kind of performance. If the GPU was much more powerful than the PS4 though, they should've used a much more powerful CPU to avoid bottlenecks, otherwise CPU could still be a problem. Which would have probably brought the price higher than the one they wanted to set (and let's not forget that they don't want to sell the console at loss).
- ARM+Nvidia on both consoles means that they have to build only one OS and cross development between home and portable is as easy and streamlined as it gets (especially if, with tegra, the portable performances are better than expected). We speculated many times that AMD didn't have anything in the ultra low powered space and that could've caused issues (or Nintendo going with PowerVR for the handheld), but Nvidia does.
- Iwata said that the NX is being developed in a way that every future console will be natively compatible with the already existing games to avoid software droughts at launch and build a giant library of software. Many people said "but AMD is in dire financial straits, what would happen if they go bankrupt?". Maybe Nintendo thought the same thing and this was one of the reasons why they decided to go to Nvidia.
- On the other hand, Nvidia, unlike AMD, isn't known for its low prices. It's possible though that they wanted a big client for their Tegra line, so they gave Nintendo a killer deal for that and decided to settle for a low price (on par with what AMD would've asked?) for the home GPU as well. That's if the home doesn't use a very high clocked Tegra X1 (or the new Pascal version).
The only thing that still sounds weird to me is that Nintendo would think about ending their collaboration with AMD and give up to their low prices, but maybe the reasons above were enough to switch sides and Nvidia might have helped if they really wanted that Tegra win, with the expectation of higher margins in the future.
- AMD has 3 wins: 2 x86 and 1 arm, one of them goes beyond gaming. These are PS4 Neo, new Xbox One and (let's say) an Apple device. Neo and 1.5 technically aren't "new wins", but maybe it's something that they can spin (especially if the revisions use Polaris). It would also explain why they only expect 1.5b revenue from these.
- In late 2014-early 2015 (iirc), Nintendo was looking for Lead Graphic Engineer for Next-Gen Console. Experience with low power architecture was a bonus, and Nvidia GPUs are very power efficient (much more than AMD up to Maxwell vs GCN 1.2, we don't know about Pascal vs Polaris yet).
- LCGeek reported that the Nintendo NX CPU, while far from being a monster, is considerably more powerful than what the Xbox One and PS4 have.
- Emily Rogers said that the CPU isn't x86 and the specs on paper are closer to Xbox One than PS4, and "even that would be a stretch".
- If Nintendo went ARM+Nvidia, the above situation should be pretty clear even in the more pessimistic scenario. A 1tflop Nvidia GPU has lower numbers on paper but it absolutely destroys the Xbox One and comes pretty close to what the PS4 has (a 750ti, which is 1.3tflops, actually beats the PS4 in many situations as per Digital Foundry's tests). But isn't this a bit disappointing? A console that comes out in 2017 isn't considerably better in every way than two consoles that came out in late 2013? The answer should be yes, but there's another thing to consider: as we've seen many times, the CPU in the PS4 and Xbox One is a bottleneck, especially in certain scenarios. Nintendo hates bottlenecks, and especially after the harsh criticism they received for the Wii U CPU, they probably wanted to balance the new console in a way that the CPU would never be an issue compared to the performances of the GPU. So if the GPU is 1tflop Nvidia, it falls between X1 and PS4 in real world performances, but something like the much speculated 8 core ARM A72 2GHZ would never be a bottleneck for that kind of performance. If the GPU was much more powerful than the PS4 though, they should've used a much more powerful CPU to avoid bottlenecks, otherwise CPU could still be a problem. Which would have probably brought the price higher than the one they wanted to set (and let's not forget that they don't want to sell the console at loss).
- ARM+Nvidia on both consoles means that they have to build only one OS and cross development between home and portable is as easy and streamlined as it gets (especially if, with tegra, the portable performances are better than expected). We speculated many times that AMD didn't have anything in the ultra low powered space and that could've caused issues (or Nintendo going with PowerVR for the handheld), but Nvidia does.
- Iwata said that the NX is being developed in a way that every future console will be natively compatible with the already existing games to avoid software droughts at launch and build a giant library of software. Many people said "but AMD is in dire financial straits, what would happen if they go bankrupt?". Maybe Nintendo thought the same thing and this was one of the reasons why they decided to go to Nvidia.
- On the other hand, Nvidia, unlike AMD, isn't known for its low prices. It's possible though that they wanted a big client for their Tegra line, so they gave Nintendo a killer deal for that and decided to settle for a low price (on par with what AMD would've asked?) for the home GPU as well. That's if the home doesn't use a very high clocked Tegra X1 (or the new Pascal version).
The only thing that still sounds weird to me is that Nintendo would think about ending their collaboration with AMD and give up to their low prices, but maybe the reasons above were enough to switch sides and Nvidia might have helped if they really wanted that Tegra win, with the expectation of higher margins in the future.
Interesting, do you have a source for this?
TLZ
Banned
Good post. Makes much more sense than Trev's last amateurish video.
Orbit_shadow
Neo Member
how much would a pascal based tegra cost?
According to ZhugeEX, the Chinese "Fuze" Console pays 50 usd for each tegra x1 used.
According to ZhugeEX, the Chinese "Fuze" Console pays 50 usd for each tegra x1 used.
This has probably already been asked in the thread but it's so huge at this point:
When was the last time Emily was correct about insider info, and how many things has she said since then that were either wrong or haven't yet panned out?
If Mother 3 doesn't happen this year, does that deal a decisive blow to her credibility?
When was the last time Emily was correct about insider info, and how many things has she said since then that were either wrong or haven't yet panned out?
If Mother 3 doesn't happen this year, does that deal a decisive blow to her credibility?
Unless they delay the release of Mother 3 to NX exclusive; it pretty much has to come out this year.
I imagine Nintendo would be able to get a better deal than that since they're a bigger international brand, as well as not being an upstart with no bargaining power.
Last time she was right with Paper Mario for Wii U. There was nothing that she said since that and was proven wrong yet. Besides Mother 3 she also said that Zelda will have voice acting (except Link I think) and you can play as male or female in it.
But that's beside the point anyhow, she shared some of her NX info and sources with NateDrake:
Orbit_shadow
Neo Member
For X1, yes. But i'm considering Nintendo using a newer pascal base, Let's say P1.
So how much would it could given they are choosing newer technology.
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