To expand on this, EA really emphasized the importance of using one engine - in regards to FrostBite.
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Emily Rogers: NX Not Using x86 Architecture - Won't Blow Away Current Gen Consoles
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To expand on this, EA really emphasized the importance of using one engine - in regards to FrostBite.
TwilightPrincess
Member
Frostbite Games on a Nintendo handheld? hehe That would be something i did not see coming (if it ever happens).
LegendofLex
Member
It was literally two days ago that Kimishima talked about Nintendo's move into film being an effort to expand the global gaming population.
Since anyone who'd be added to the global gaming population by default can't be a hardcore gamer when they first start playing games, that means that Nintendo's business model - indeed, the underpinning of all the different businesses they try to tackle - is definitely still focused on casual gamers.
Whether they've been making games that actually cater to the needs of that market (or, better put, matter to them at all) in the last few years is another story.
well...PRESUMABLY, if Nintendo's future console and handhelds had the same architecture, it wouldn't be that hard I'd think.
Well, it still needs to make commercial sense, but the architecture is not a barrier in any way.
This, basically.
James Scott
Banned
Frostbite works on PS360 as well. I wasn't an issue of getting it to run on Wii U, it's just that EA didn't want to.
Though, if they can get it on the NX portable it could result in good things
cartman414
Member
It can no longer be the same non-gamer now served by phone games though. That ship has sailed.
Nintendo seems a bit more willing to be an AND company this time around. That is, casual AND core.
You're possibly right (assuming that my conservative calculations were even correct given that they were on the extreme low-end in terms of the power efficiency boost going from 28nm to 16nmFF+), which is why I think my other estimate is the safer one, especially if they use Pascal. A Pascal GPU with the specs I mentioned in my other post would use roughly 22W or less. That's plenty of headroom for an ARM-based system without an HDD or ODD to consume under 40W. It would be less powerful than PS4, though.
No, the CPU was the issue with making it work. It took too much extra effort to be worth it.
Based on my own shameful attempt at extrapoling numbers based on one of Trakthor's posts, I have to agree with this. Customised 950 or 950M is my final -yet- (for NX home) bet, however when asking for customization it's more likely to be a downclocking than anything else.
But since Nintendo would have a modern ARM CPU, that won't be an issue.
Also, I've heard people talking about the latest wave of Tegra X1 chips getting close to the Xbox One in terms of graphical fidelity. Would this be feasible on a handheld?
Pancake Mix
Copied someone else's pancake recipe
You know, Nintendo is nerfing the console terribly if they are demanding low wattage above all else.
Judging by the Wii U....they're nerfing the console terribly by demanding low wattage above all else.
LegendofLex
Member
They were already an AND company on Wii, which is why games like 3D Mario, 2D Mario, Smash Bros., Paper Mario, and Zelda all sold gangbusters even while Wii Sports and Wii Fit were huge headliners.
Hell, they were an AND company from the beginning. Consider that Golf in Wii Sports is a modern version of Golf on NES (it even uses the same courses), that the Wii Remote was designed to be a modern light gun, and that Nintendo made a fitness game of the kind they made for the NES.
D
Deleted member 752119
Unconfirmed Member
Wasn't their low wattage issues mostly with concerns from Japanese folks? Who don't really buy consoles anymore?
If so, hopefully they don't focus on that so much as most people in the west, where the console market still is, don't care about that stuff.
Maybe? Wii U might have...2 games that touch 40W when in use. It's kinda absurd. They wanted low wattage so fucking bad that it crippled everything they did. Low clock speeds, low ram speeds, etc.
Then again, their most successful Wii U game in Japan isn't a Mario, a Zelda or a Smash. It's an Online Shooter that was developed on the cheap.
He said ARM and Polaris i believe.
Unfortunately, it looks like it's the fetish of one (the?) top hardware designers.
I don't believe there ever was a single consumer survey, even in Japan, that puts low power consumption in the top topics when choosing a hardware.
It sure havn't helped the Wii U.
Trev goes back and forth between ARM and X86 depending on what day of the week it is.
James Scott
Banned
"x86 is a logical choice"
AMD, Polaris, and X86 is what he talks about in his channel
Yeah, I imagine he's just guessing in this case
Re: wattage, Iwata said that different regions had different concerns when it came to devising the console that was right for them. This was back when we had the idea that there might be more than 2 devices for the NX family, though this was also taken as an acknowledgement that the slavish devotion to low wattage did nothing at all to help them outside of Japan.
Did it even help them in Japan?
I was speculating that the ARM win could've been the rumored new Apple device, but it was just an example of something that could go "beyond gaming", really. Could be anything, from a new Fire TV to another set-top box to... the NX of course.
Lol, you really living in the past. Wii was casual. With wiiu everything changed.
For your information, maybe you need to read this:
https://mynintendonews.com/2014/08/...on-core-rather-than-casual-gaming-market-now/
From the beginning on the CPU front ARM seems like a no-brainer for cross-compatibility purposes, the GPU remains the question.
Nintendo has had a long relationship with AMD and Nvidia doesn't seem to care about the console space anymore, so it would be interesting to see them back in the game, especially with Nintendo who are always power conservative and looking for affordable parts in their systems. I'm still more curious about the handheld to be honest, since on console graphics are at a point where they're "good enough" for me, a system between Xbone and PS4 power would produce some amazing games. But the handheld is a big "if", especially if we consider resolution and battery life, and i think Nvidia doesn't have the best reputation on power efficient portable chips.
Nintendo has had a long relationship with AMD and Nvidia doesn't seem to care about the console space anymore, so it would be interesting to see them back in the game, especially with Nintendo who are always power conservative and looking for affordable parts in their systems. I'm still more curious about the handheld to be honest, since on console graphics are at a point where they're "good enough" for me, a system between Xbone and PS4 power would produce some amazing games. But the handheld is a big "if", especially if we consider resolution and battery life, and i think Nvidia doesn't have the best reputation on power efficient portable chips.
They can say whatever they want, but it's clear when Wii U launched they were focusing on the casuals, or thinking casuals were their new core market.
Probably the latter, cuz they're morons.
Dark Cloud
Member
We're one more day closer to finding out about the NX. Don't spoil it for me, Emily!
Article is from 2014. Wiiu launched in 2012 with some casual focus at the first year. Afterwards they said goodbye to the casual gaming and turned back to core gaming.
Spyder_Monkey
Banned
They were trying to play both fields. Attract the casual by using the Wii name, the same accessories and make more Wii Fit, and Wii Party games while at the same time attract the PS360 crowd with that EA partnership that never went anywhere, and bringing COD, and Assassin's Creed on their system. That's what Wii U meant: a Wii console meant for U and your specific needs. It wasn't a bad way to position a product like this but I think Nintendo underestimated how apathetic both audiences would be. The casuals were more interested in Angry Birds and Farmville (this was back in 2011 after all) while the core didn't have a compelling enough reason abandon their current gen consoles. I expect the NX to be for Nintendo fans and Nintendo fans only.
Emily would not spread rumors anymore until after e3. But 1 day closer until march?
With Wii U it was really trying to have a dual approach for casuals and also the core. That's why the Gamepad had a traditional control layout and so much early effort was put into securing things like Ninja Gaiden, Tekken or Bayonetta.
FTFY
Ok, got it. I didn't know that. The way i interpreted it from past discussions on gaf, it was just like AMD/Nvidia used different "scales" to measure their flops or something. Like comparing a petrol engine to a diesel engine or for instance when talking about CC.
This is not entirely true, 10k also stated that he was talking about performance, but that the actual "paper specs" (raw power) would not necessarilly seem better than the XBO/PS4 (or in between). He just assumed the new architecture and feature set (such as Primitive Discard Accelerator) would make such an impact that it could put it well ahead of PS4, maybe in the realm of PS4k. Maybe he claimed it a little bit more boldly at one time, and a little less so another time. But this was what he was basically claiming.
Since that article very little has changed in terms of game library, and thats been 2 years.
I don't think I'm living in the past.
I do love Nintendo though. Looking forward to the NX
Schnozberry
Member
If the performance gains between Kepler and Maxwell can be recreated going to Pascal, which is a tall order, I think we could see great performance in the NX Console for under 40W. It may not set the world on fire, but it should give us performance pretty close to the mainstream desktop Kepler part from a few years ago that was competing nicely with the PS4 running PC Ports.
What hasn't changed? Wiiu and 3ds only received games for core gamers in the last 2 years. The casual games are gone. It has been changed back what happened before the wii. But with wiiu without 3rd party support. I think it even will get better with the nx.
Ah, thanks for the clarification.
As far as the iPad Pro there isn't substantial differences plugged in vs battery. This has more to do with keeping the processor cool. You can see a direct correlation between temperature and responsiveness. If say you were to plug an NX into some sort of dock that was able to provide active cooling it would make a big difference
Performance on the iPad in general is incredibly fast. I'd be curious to see what it could do if it was able to run with more thermal headroom.
Tegra X1 is a beast of a chip. Would graphics quality like that work in a handheld? Not yet.
I think we are a year or two away from being able to get that kind of performance in the wattage and thermal requirements that todays handhelds need.
According to what Blu posted, that's not happening. (EDIT: in the other topic i think)
The GPU of the X1 draws +/-1.5 to 2W at 500Mhz. The jump to Pascal (from Maxwell) should be 1.36 x more efficient as you can in read the past pages (Blu's post) (EDIT: in the other topic i think). That would bring it at 340 Gflops, with maybe additional new features making it even more efficient. So... not that far off.
They tried to get with Nintendo for the 3DS. It got as far as devkits with Tegra 2 in them before Nvidia could not bring power consumption and TDP into a satisfactory level for Nintendo and it forced Nintendo to go elsewhere.
Nvidia is doing nothing but posturing when they say they don't give a shit about consoles/handhelds. Its frankly embarrassing when the Industry leader is locked out of an entire market.
LegendofLex
Member
The only thing that changed was that because Nintendo wasn't doing this:
it turns out most people thought Nintendo's games weren't relevant to their daily lives.
Schnozberry
Member
Nvidia also left Nintendo out to dry with the 3DS by not delivering the performance and efficiency they promised with earlier Tegra chipsets. But every new piece of hardware is a chance to go out for bids, an Nvidia must have came with their negotiating shoes on after getting so dramatically underbid by AMD for the Playstation 4 and Xbox One.
As stated by other people in this and other threads, Nvidia has no large scale customers for their Tegra chips. If they want to be able to continue to invest in that part of their business, they need to win a major customer, even if that means taking thinner margins than they would normally like. Nintendo selling millions of Tegra chips in both handheld and console form would serve both companies well. Nvidia doesn't have to borrow capital dollars from other parts of the business to develop ARM based SOC's, and Nintendo would potentially reap the benefits by having a long term hardware partner that will be able to deliver performance and compatibility as time marches on into the future.
The answer to the questions is Tegra. Which is not very successful for Nvidia and being provider for Nintendo might boost that business and Nintendo needs a good, efficient and affordable chip for their handheld, which Tegra seems to be.
Edit: beaten.
Honestly, the power consumption argument isn't relevant either way for the console if you're buying into the idea of an Nvidia GPU with similar on-paper specs to Xbone, especially since we're likely looking at Pascal here. If it's not Pascal, we're probably looking at something along the lines of a Tegra X1 with a modified CPU config and twice the SMs, which should result in a <45W console overall and performance similar to Xbone. If it's Pascal, we're looking a <45W console rivaling PS4. Until we know for sure which node or architecture it's on, arguing about power consumption doesn't really make or break anything, and in every single case we end up in the range of current consoles.
It's very low risk. It's basically licensing out their tech. Nintendo puts up all the money for inventory.
magnumpy
Member
maybe nvidia wants to get back into consoles just for the prestige. it would definitely be a feather in their cap. still don't see them selling their hardware for a loss, but could definitely see them selling at a break even point. they're already considered godlike in the PC market, adding nintendo consoles makes some definite sense for both nvidia and nintendo.
here's hoping this deal pulls through!
here's hoping this deal pulls through!
'We don't don't care about that market. So here's our solution to enter that market we don't really care about!'
That's what Nvidia did after they lost the 3DS contract.
They wouldn't need to sell hardware at all. They license use of the IP, and Nintendo designs the chips themselves. Nintendo pays for manufacturing. It's exactly what AMD does.
I imagine if Nvidia was on board for NX's chips, or at least partially, they'd be pushing developers they make deals with to get on board with it as well. Now MAYBE I'm wrong, but Nvidia strikes me as the type of company that would try and twist some arms to make it happen.
It's nice to be hopeful, but I don't know if Nintendo would even accept that help.
On another note, 10k is a really funny guy.
https://twitter.com/Tenkay23/status/732655532536926208
https://twitter.com/Tenkay23/status/732697375957999624
https://twitter.com/Tenkay23/status/732697704535609344
Summary: It's not ARM but it's ARM but it's not because it's based on ARM but isn't straight ARM. That's literally what he's saying here.
I do really hope that it's not Denver, though. That isn't made for 8-core configs, so if it uses that it might have less than 8 cores or a big.LITTLE config that would surely alienate third-parties.
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