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[Jigsaah]

Days Gone and TLOU2 releasing the same year is one of the DUMBEST things Sony has or will do this generation. If they are both good games, neither one will get the full praise that it would deserve because all people will do is compare the two. Just weird that Sony didn't spread them out more.

But I also feel like had Insomniac made Spiderman multi-console, nobody would think it's "samey" as God of War and Ghost of Tsushima

I don't see Spiderman as similar to God of War. I made a comment on that earlier in the week, maybe in another thread and purposely did not group Spiderman and Detroit in the 3rd person action cookie cutter. I think in the context of the post, I was only referring to Sony's most recent and upcoming first party exclusives being similar to one another. I don't believe Sony owns Insomniac or Quantic Dreams. Spiderman's verticality sets it apart from the rest. Sure, it's third person action, I think the traversal is enough to say it's different. Detroit of course is nothing like anything else Sony has put out recently as it belongs to the Heavy Rain, Beyond Two Souls genre...walking simulator i think they call it.

 

[FStubbs]

Number it how you like, but just remember if you do, you're setting up a situation where you literally cannot include Nintendo in any conversation about who won sales-wise generationally any more. Sales being the context in which my original point was made, hell its the context most often used when discussing generations of software/hardware ecosystems!

If as suspected Sony and MS don't release their next gen systems til 2020, that's a long time to basically remove them from the equation, and essentially sets up a 9th gen "race" where one competitor will be looking at a near 4 year lead on the market! As I noted, that's close on the duration of a generation by itself.

Dreamcast appeared 16 months before PS2 in Japan only, worldwide it was much shorter because it to took SEGA 9-11 months before it rolled out overseas basically putting it chronologically in the same ballpark in terms of lead-time on the market as 360 vs PS3/Wii.

Sorry but to me it seems far more rational, and importantly useful, to put Switch in the same gen as Wii U in order to maintain continuity and value as a comparitive entity within sales.

Lets be honest too, the argument that a platform holder historically can only offer one device per generation only works if you treat handhelds as separate entities. Both Sony and Nintendo have run 2 machines within generations multiple times, so now we have a true hybrid of handheld and home console it seems consistent to me.

Your argument now is basically "Sony and Microsoft decide when next gen starts, not Nintendo."

Though since I count Switch as a handheld and a console, I'm fine with comparing its sales separately to PS5 and Xbox 9th gen.

You can't count Switch as a Wii U revision because it has a fundamentally different value proposition, architecture, and isn't backwards compatible. This is not like new 3DS or PS4 Pro - it's their next gen system.

 

[ViceGrity2000]

Everything right is a stretch. Compared to Microsoft for sure, but Sony isn't somehow squeaky clean this gen just because microsoft committed suicide in 2013.

What did Sony/PS4 do wrong this gen and fail in to NOT be squeaky clean?
Because in my book they get a 10 and have secured a PS5 day 1 purchase without needing to think about it.

 

[ViceGrity2000]

That's plain wrong.

Can you elaborate on how the 1X is not equal to the Pro on a 1080p HDTV?

 

[Elenchus]

Days Gone and TLOU2 releasing the same year is one of the DUMBEST things Sony has or will do this generation. If they are both good games, neither one will get the full praise that it would deserve because all people will do is compare the two. Just weird that Sony didn't spread them out more.

But I also feel like had Insomniac made Spiderman multi-console, nobody would think it's "samey" as God of War and Ghost of Tsushima

Days Gone and Ghosts are the two that seem the most uninspired to me. Days literally looks like a traveling horde mode sim and as soon as I saw the combat in Ghosts I lost interest. Stilted and scripted from top to bottom with really bad animations.

Next to something like Sekiro it doesn't fare well. I'm sure both games will be fine but would I pay $60 for those experiences? Nah. As ACG would say, those are definitely wait for deep deep discount titles.

But to each his own. I just do not view 3rd person action as the only genre that is worth pursuing.

 

[TheAdmiester]

Can you elaborate on how the 1X is not equal to the Pro on a 1080p HDTV?

4K games on the X1X will downsample when outputting to 1080p, but as far as I understand, the Pro will only do so if it's built into the game as opposed to on a system level.

 

[ViceGrity2000]

It already happened before - people abandoned X360 despite having unarguably better controller, better online, cross-game voice chat, no game installs etc., simply for PS4's lower price. Because despite what all the kids here talk about exclusives, the whole majority of gamers don't give a flying f*** about those stupid console wars, they just want to play FIFA, CoD, Assassin, GTA, etc. for as low as possible, and the exclusives are just a nice addition to the system they already have. So whoever will offer 7zthe cheapest console will dominate again, no matter how this generation turned out.

People abandoned the 360 because Xbox shifted focus to Kinect midgen and launched horribly next to a PS4 that corrected its controller issues to make the Dualshock 4 a pefect controller and corrected its online issues now offering voice chat making PSN exactly the same online as Xbox Live.

The circumstances and storm occurring that formed this generation's results that Xbox ignored, are not now occurring leading into PS5. Sony hasn't abandoned thier audience. Sony is as engaged as ever and shows they want to be here FOR thier fans, not to solely make money off them.

 

[ViceGrity2000]

4K games on the X1X will downsample when outputting to 1080p, but as far as I understand, the Pro will only do so if it's built into the game as opposed to on a system level.

They both Super sample down. Exactly. My original point stands.

The X1X requires the purchase of a new TV to reap the results of its power, PS4 never did, and without needing to buy a new TV multiplats are the same on a Pro or the 1X. This is the 1X sales failure, it requires additional expensive equipment.

 

[TheAdmiester]

They both Super sample down. Exactly. My original point stands.

But if Game A runs at 4K and doesn't have an explicit downsampling mode, the Pro will only render it at 1080p as opposed to sampling it down like the 1X. I'd say that makes them unequal, not a huge deal, but it's there.

 

[ViceGrity2000]

But if Game A runs at 4K and doesn't have an explicit downsampling mode, the Pro will only render it at 1080p as opposed to sampling it down like the 1X. I'd say that makes them unequal, not a huge deal, but it's there.

That difference right there isn't going to compel ANYONE to buy a 1X, its not going to sell consoles. The Super Sampling is negligible.

 

[JareBear: Remastered]

The Super Sampling is negligible.

You sure?

 

[ViceGrity2000]

You sure?

The 1X offers a superior super sampling benefit over the Pro that CLEARLY demonstrates improved image and this benefit is to a degree to justify the hundreds of dollars for its purchase?

 

[TheAdmiester]

That difference right there isn't going to compel ANYONE to buy a 1X, its not going to sell consoles. The Super Sampling is negligible.

I never said anything about sales, all I said was that the difference is there.

 

[Gavon West]

Uh oh. You must be shook if you're digging through my post history looking for ammo. LOL

Anyway, Max Payne 3 is arguably one of the best third person shooters of all time obviously. The slow-mo and excessive violence make it stand out compared to other TPS.

Off topic but Rockstar did an excellent job supporting backwards compatibility this year. I'm very confident they will add Max Payne 3 next year, unless they have a remaster in the works a la LA Noire, which I would be 100% ok with for the record.

Oh, boy! MP3!! Damn I loved that game!! Jesus I wish they'd make another one. Hands down one of my most played and most beloved games of last gen by a land slide.

 

[ViceGrity2000]

I never said anything about sales, all I said was that the difference is there.

Ok fine. Keeping the discussion purely on power, I still don't think anyone believes the 1X provides superior super sampling image quality on a 1080p HDTV over the PS Pro. This isnt quantifiable or digestible to the general public and to most sounds like b.s. Its not straight forward and verifiable like when the debate centred around 1080p vs. 900p or even 720p.

The 1X in truth is a marketing smoke and mirrors, because its claim as the most powerful console ever made, comes with a huge astrik and caveat, it requires the purchase of an additional expensive TV to realize. That is where that power debate ended.

 

[Rhazer Fusion]

I don't see either side dominating. I feel Sony has better games and MS has better hardware and services. I think it will level out

History has shown us that better software typically wins console wars over stronger hardware though. I think if Microsoft can drastically improve their first party offerings, then maybe they will see noticeable improvements in sales. Even with that though they will still not have the world wide presence of Sony though.

Again, it's good they are procuring more studios, but will they sell hardware or even make games comparable with Sony and Nintendo's?

 

[Rogas]

Sony probably won't be around in a decade and will eventually be swallowed by a larger company like Google or even Microsoft, they're too much of a small fry to survive in today's market. This article is just stating the obvious.

 

[JareBear: Remastered]

Sony probably won't be around in a decade and will eventually be swallowed by a larger company like Google or even Microsoft, they're too much of a small fry to survive in today's market. This article is just stating the obvious.

Google Chrome on my PS7? Cool!

 

[Rogas]

Google Chrome on my PS7? Cool!

More like Internet Explorer on your PSXbox.

 

[Rhazer Fusion]

Sony probably won't be around in a decade and will eventually be swallowed by a larger company like Google or even Microsoft, they're too much of a small fry to survive in today's market. This article is just stating the obvious.

Haven't people been saying the same thing about Nintendo forever? That would be really strange considering Sony literally dominate every single console generation. Unless they end up losing a plethora of money off hardware and want to cut loses like Sega or get into a really detrimental financial situation, I doubt that will happen anytime soon.

 

[ViceGrity2000]

Sony probably won't be around in a decade and will eventually be swallowed by a larger company like Google or even Microsoft, they're too much of a small fry to survive in today's market. This article is just stating the obvious.

If Xbox/Microsoft bought Sony, it wouldn't sell me on Xbox's. I would just quit gaming minus Nintendo and retro PlayStation consoles. Xbox can't sell me by buying thier competitors.

 

[JetSetRadio]

They should really dump that generic ori shite, I've always wanted to buy that mahler dude a wig too, chinese synthetic material obviously.

Play great games like Cuphead or Never Alone instead.

 

[Rogas]

That would be strange considering they literally dominate every single generation. Unless they end up losing a plethora of money off hardware or something and want to cut their loses like Sega.

Just because they win most generations doesn't mean they're doing well, if the PS4 sold like the PS3 PlayStation would have gone under and probably sold off.

Sony doesn't have the financial luxury of Microsoft, the latter can fuck up as many times as they want and the Xbox brand will never cease to exist because that company is so wealthy. Sony on the other hand, only need one more major fuck up before they're in the shits.

Honestly I fear for them in the future. Their first party studios literally have to make amazing games every single time. Days Gone for example, will probably flop and force the closure of Sony Bend because they can't afford to keep them running. Those graphic intensive singleplayer experiences with 5+ year dev times aren't cheap to make.

I think people need to accept the fact that Microsoft will eclipse Sony in the gaming space eventually. Sony simply doesn't have the company strength to maintain momentum, it's been a good run for them but all good things must come to an end unfortunately. Subscription based gaming, streaming, services and backwards compatibility are the future of gaming and Sony lag severely in all four areas. "Sony, sleep sweet prince" is the only reasonable outcome I see for them.

 

[Rogas]

If Xbox/Microsoft bought Sony, it wouldn't sell me on Xbox's. I would just quit gaming minus Nintendo and retro PlayStation consoles. Xbox can't sell me by buying thier competitors.

That's because you're a fanboy. If you're going to quit gaming because Sony doesn't exist anymore then lol. What happens when Microsoft start to make entries for Uncharted, TLOU, GoW? Are you going to ignore them?

Do you have a PlayStation tattoo or something?

 

[Gavon West]

Haven't people been saying the same thing about Nintendo forever? That would be really strange considering Sony literally dominate every single console generation. Unless they end up losing a plethora of money off hardware and want to cut loses like Sega or get into a really detrimental financial situation, I doubt that will happen anytime soon.

Not saying Sony will shut down but (that would actually suck for everyone in the gaming community), they are much more than just gaming. It's just that their other endeavors arent doing nearly as well.

 

[ViceGrity2000]

That's because you're a fanboy. If you're going to quit gaming because Sony doesn't exist anymore then lol. What happens when Microsoft start to make entries for Uncharted, TLOU, GoW? Are you going to ignore them?

Do you have a PlayStation tattoo or something?

Naturally everyone who doesn't jump into camp Xbox is a fanboy.

The sad truth is, you insult others with your own condemnations. So the only fanboy here IS YOU.

 

[thelastword]

ok then, i hope this help your elite Mp level game sell 10 or 20m units, good luck with that

All their games have underperformed, that is why they have resorted to number of players, gamepass subs who share games and who used the free trial and significant reductions in gamepass subscription prices....

It's always a riot to see people defend that.....MS said all their games are doing fine....Sunset Overdrive, SOD2, Quantum Break, Sea of Thieves, Forza 7, SLT all did well.....and "met expectations", but yet these games see serious reductions in quick order and are packed in at every turn without significant movement at the $60.00 pricepoint as was the case with UC4, BLoodBorne, GOW, Spiderman etc....

I have seen this statement and sentiment quite a few times on the internet and the people saying it always fail to see the blatantly obvious. The PS4 doing 1080p, and XB1 not able to but a meager 900p or even 720p WAS a huge deal in terms of power discussion, because EVERYONE saved thier money from thier jobs last gen and all already bought expensive 1080p HDTVs.

Now that the 1X is pushing more pixels in a lot of games to a closer full 4K, you see most PlayStation fans don't care. Why is power no longer a debate or an issue? Well, simply put, most people don't want to spend $1000+ on a new TV set every console generation. Most people are still happy with their expensive 1080p top of the line HDTV they bought last gen, that the PS4 was able to take advantage of displaying in full 1080p where XB1 was not.

Remember when the PlayStation Pro was first revealed and a lot of fans were disappointed and upset? It was because people wanted a system that would boost performance and frames for thier current games and TV not add more pixels and force people to buy a new expensive TV yet again.

So when this new 1X is showing up in Digital Foundry videos boasting more pixels in a lot of games, so many PlayStation fans simply don't care because those pixels come at the cost of a new TV purchase. This is why power is no longer a debate topic, because for the 1X to win, people have to buy a new TV. The base PS4 won that debate with no additional purchase necessary.

So Xbox 1X is the most powerful console ever made, but NOT on your 1080p HDTV that was once top of the line and you worked hard to buy last generation. Nope, on a 1080p HDTV the 1X and the PS pro are still the same and are EQUAL. This is also why the 1X is not flying off store shelves, it requires the purchase of a new TV to actually be true. Had the 1X had a better CPU and been able to double performance on 1080p TVs locked at 60, it would have sold more.

A lot of people don't really care or need more than 1080p pixels, and instead would rather have more frames like 60 fps locked with no dips or even 120 fps. And a lot people just don't want to buy a new expensive TV with thier new console every generation.

These are good points and ones I have made, but what's more is that the XBONEX still has worse framerate in many games vs PRO.....They're trying to hit 4k when the console can't always handle it, even with dynamic resolutions and sometimes resolutions below 4k, PRO still has better consistency......Right now, the XBONEX is doing checkerboard Rendering something fierce too....So many promises by Phil, "Promises By Phil TM".......Got to trademark that tbh......Yet, persons will say "it has 4k games, but so does PRO", which means that the odd 4k title like Farcry5 and Red Dead at the same 30fps with some med to low settings in part, does not really detract from the fact......

The XBOX horde tries to pretend XBONEX was great value 1 year later @ $500.00, but tries to belittle PRO like it's not powerful enough....If PRO was $500.00 with XBONEX specs or better 1 year earlier, they would say Sony would be crazy to go back to that pricepoint.....The truth is, XBONEX coming 1 year later with the same jaguar cores, 4Gb more memory, less CU complexity and custom features, less rops on board and a few upgrades in clockspeed at the cost of better cooling should not cost you $500.00 one year later, when prices have decreased for parts, silicon have matured and better deals could be garnered in mass production....XBONEX should have been $400 (1) year later, perhaps even $350.00 since it's no big shift from PRO, frames are not significanlty better, then perhaps they would have forced Sony to get the PRO to $300 in 2017. Yet at $350.00, an XBONEX is still a hard sell over a PRO at $400.00, because PRO has the games...So yes, it's not all about hardware and of course the majority of gamers are still on 1080p sets, which the vanilla PS4 has catered to the entire generation.......whilst XBOX-ONE vanilla even falls below 720p territory in certain titles.......And this is where the majority of folk are btw....

Don't you usually need at least a couple of examples before you say "etc"?

They dominate in Warface, Smite, Fortnite as F2P's...They dominate in Monster Hunter, Overwatch, FF, COD, BF as third parties....They dominate with GTS, H1Z1, SFV as exclusives....They dominate with Fate Grand Order on mobile...They dominate with remote-play and shareplay, they dominate with crossplay....Should I go on?

Soooo...PC? Per several tweets. Do you sweat from the brow when you turn on your Ps4? Just curious.

So you don't know, but you want to challenge.....These are stats for PS4 only....

https://venturebeat.com/2018/06/28/...aystation-4-one-month-after-open-beta-launch/

Gran Turismo Sport dominates Forza? I'm convinced you're an Xbox fanboy trying to make Playstation fanboys look bad. I do enjoy reading your posts though. You have so much energy and it's hilarious to watch.

So again, you don't know.....But yes, GTS trumps Forza 7 online.....Forza 7 has been playing catchup and only recently implemented online features GTS had day 1, like ghosted cars et al.......Online events are always bubbling and packed in GTS, motorsport aspect is superior, better cars, better production values, higher quality racing with a tutorial to show you proper etiquette.....Pit crews, fuel managment, tire management all up the game in an online race......In essence, a much superior online game with the players to show...

As for the players and events....and who this attracts.....

Watch this first....



Then upgrade to this...



It's not even close in favor of GTS...

I think it's a good thing if Microsoft is Number one Next Generation because it will Force sony to not get complacent and continue to Fight for our money losing last generation lead to play station plus witch in turn lead to Microsoft answering with games with Gold free Games for all and we the consumer win this is a trend that will likely continue with backwards compatibility and a PlayStation now mirroring gamespass next to around.

So in order words, give MS a pity win.....? Tbh, you don't just concede a win to a company, they have to earn it...MS has never earned a win, so let them keep trying, but all this fake hyperbole "for an MS future" is harming them the most...They're only digging their own pits, because they're hyperboling expectations to flatline delivery.....FYI, when MS does not deliver next gen like they didn't this gen, people will only go back to all their promises and cite "their bs", just as we're doing now...History has a way of repeating itself....MS has not changed their strategy, they just hype every thing that has no impact in the generation; crossplay, BC (very partial bc at that, with titles they so please, bad framerates persists and stutter in many titles), E3, I mean Sony is not going to E3, WOW that's big....MS is going to win next gen....Goodness gracious, wake-up....

Tv, Kinect, Snap, Skype, power of the cloud, Azure, Creators of Direct X.....So many talking high points of pure hype drek......They were unto crossplay to show Sony as a bad guy when Sony has been a pioneer of CP since PS2, now they're unto the X'cloud hype train, when no one from MS or any Xbox fan in the last year or since PSNOW on PS3 many moons ago, had nothing positive to say about streaming or PSNOW, because Sony was on that train, lonesome you see, in other words to Sony, those talking points, been there done that and doing that and have even shown tremendous success with it......Now what do you know, streaming is the future, but only promised on a hype check from MS in the distant future, but that's enough for us, we need nothing more...Forget a service that exists, we offer you this superior promised one......So we have foretellers like this author and others speaking about streaming and all those great designs by the Gods at MS....That MS'Manna from heaven, if you will.....It will change the gaming landscape you see, it will change gaming as you know it....

Yet, I'm still waiting on my "give me a bevy of great exclusives check to clear on the XBOX-ONE", I'm still waiitng on "my power of the cloud games check that gives unlimited power to the games", "I'm still waiting on my true 4k console check to clear, not the PRO and XBOX-ONE S with checkerboarding and upscaling, certainly not that check", I'm still waitng on all my games having dedicated servers check to clear" and lo and behold, so many other checks which bounced.....Yet now, you're asking me to believe in some upcoming Xcloud check with my name on it...WHY? I never got the ones before.....

I'm surprised no one posted this little gem of games journalism from Ars Technica

XBOX-ONE will slay PS4 in 2024 confirmed.......You see all you have to do is wait...It's coming......WHYDONTYOU wait..?

 

[Rhazer Fusion]

Just because they win most generations doesn't mean they're doing well, if the PS4 sold like the PS3 PlayStation would have gone under and probably sold off.

Sony doesn't have the financial luxury of Microsoft, the latter can fuck up as many times as they want and the Xbox brand will never cease to exist because that company is so wealthy. Sony on the other hand, only need one more major fuck up before they're in the shits.

Honestly I fear for them in the future. Their first party studios literally have to make amazing games every single time. Days Gone for example, will probably flop and force the closure of Sony Bend because they can't afford to keep them running. Those graphic intensive singleplayer experiences with 5+ year dev times aren't cheap to make.

I think people need to accept the fact that Microsoft will eclipse Sony in the gaming space eventually. Sony simply doesn't have the company strength to maintain momentum, it's been a good run for them but all good things must come to an end unfortunately. Subscription based gaming, streaming, services and backwards compatibility are the future of gaming and Sony lag severely in all four areas. "Sony, sleep sweet prince" is the only reasonable outcome I see for them.

You make some good points, but how will Microsoft eclipse them when they don't have the worldwide presence, games, reputation or brand recognition Sony has? Sony started streaming before Microsoft to my knowledge and how do we know they are not working on something comparable to Gamepass, a better streaming service and backwards compability?

Microsoft had literally all of the future proof things you listed this generation and they are still getting decimated by Sony and even Nintendo are catching up. If backwards compability was really that important, Microsoft would be selling much more hardware I would imagine. People overestimate it's importance imo. Also, it remains to be seen if streaming, bc and subscription services are going to be the proverbial difference maker and fully accepted next generation. Just because it works for Netflix doesn't necessarily mean it will properly translate well into gaming.

 

[ViceGrity2000]

Not saying Sony will shut down but (that would actually suck for everyone in the gaming community), they are much more than just gaming. It's just that their other endeavors arent doing nearly as well.

It bears fruit as to why no one wanted Microsoft in the games industry to begin with: Because they would only serve to ruin it and end it.

Of course we still have paid online right now on consoles thanks to Xbox.

I'm sure they have more industry doom to be harbingers for.

 

[ViceGrity2000]

@ The Last Word: You sir, are correct.

 

[Rogas]

You make some good points, but how will Microsoft eclipse them when they don't have the worldwide presence, games, reputation or brand recognition Sony has? Sony started streaming before Microsoft to my knowledge and how do we know they are not working on something comparable to Gamepass, a better streaming service and backwards compability?

Microsoft had literally all of the future proof things you listed this generation and they are still getting decimated by Sony and even Nintendo are catching up. If backwards compability was really that important, Microsoft would be selling much more hardware I would imagine. People overestimate it's importance imo. Also, it remains to be seen if streaming, bc and subscription services are going to be the proverbial difference maker and fully accepted next generation. Just because it works for Netflix doesn't necessarily mean it will properly translate well into gaming.

This is actually more about Sony surviving than Microsoft succeeding tbh. Microsoft can continue to coast on the Xbox and make random heavy investments like they do now, overall it wouldn't effect company much if Xbox wasn't succedding as seen by this generation. Sony need to be on their game all the time because PlayStation is the biggest part of their business and if PS suffers, Sony suffers as a whole.

As for the Nintendo comparison, they exist in their own space and their games don't cost as much as Sony's to make.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

All their games have underperformed, that is why they have resorted to number of players, gamepass subs who share games and who used the free trial and significant reductions in gamepass subscription prices....

It's always a riot to see people defend that.....MS said all their games are doing fine....Sunset Overdrive, SOD2, Quantum Break, Sea of Thieves, Forza 7, SLT all did well.....and "met expectations", but yet these games see serious reductions in quick order and are packed in at every turn without significant movement at the $60.00 pricepoint as was the case with UC4, BLoodBorne, GOW, Spiderman etc....


These are good points and ones I have made, but what's more is that the XBONEX still has worse framerate in many games vs PRO.....They're trying to hit 4k when the console can't always handle it, even with dynamic resolutions and sometimes resolutions below 4k, PRO still has better consistency......Right now, the XBONEX is doing checkerboard Rendering something fierce too....So many promises by Phil, "Promises By Phil TM".......Got to trademark that tbh......Yet, persons will say "it has 4k games, but so does PRO", which means that the odd 4k title like Farcry5 and Red Dead at the same 30fps with some med to low settings in part, does not really detract from the fact......

The XBOX horde tries to pretend XBONEX was great value 1 year later @ $500.00, but tries to belittle PRO like it's not powerful enough....If PRO was $500.00 with XBONEX specs or better 1 year earlier, they would say Sony would be crazy to go back to that pricepoint.....The truth is, XBONEX coming 1 year later with the same jaguar cores, 4Gb more memory, less CU complexity and custom features, less rops on board and a few upgrades in clockspeed at the cost of better cooling should not cost you $500.00 one year later, when prices have decreased for parts, silicon have matured and better deals could be garnered in mass production....XBONEX should have been $400 (1) year later, perhaps even $350.00 since it's no big shift from PRO, frames are not significanlty better, then perhaps they would have forced Sony to get the PRO to $300 in 2017. Yet at $350.00, an XBONEX is still a hard sell over a PRO at $400.00, because PRO has the games...So yes, it's not all about hardware and of course the majority of gamers are still on 1080p sets, which the vanilla PS4 has catered to the entire generation.......whilst XBOX-ONE vanilla even falls below 720p territory in certain titles.......And this is where the majority of folk are btw....

The same can be said for Pro. Why is it the same starting price of $400, when it came out 3 years after PS4 OG and the only key difference is a better gpu. The rest of the specs boosts are tiny. The system got bigger, only has 1 extra gb of ram (for devs), didn't even bother putting in a 4k drive, and despite being promoted with a big "4k" symbol, has almost no native 4k games and can't even play 4k movies. Going by DF analysis, the Pro's most comfortable resolution zone is 1440p. lol

If Pro is going to be $400, why should X be less than $500? X is a big leap over Pro and the older Xbox/PS4 OG. Much bigger spec boosts, 4gb of ram (for gaming), a 4k drive, and despie being the most power is actually the smallest form factor.

But don't worry thelastword. While you enjoy driving a Civic like the other gazillion people in world, some people like driving BMWs where they don't care if it sells fewer units.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

This is actually more about Sony surviving than Microsoft succeeding tbh. Microsoft can continue to coast on the Xbox and make random heavy investments like they do now, overall it wouldn't effect company much if Xbox wasn't succedding as seen by this generation. Sony need to be on their game all the time because PlayStation is the biggest part of their business and if PS suffers, Sony suffers as a whole.

As for the Nintendo comparison, they exist in their own space and their games don't cost as much as Sony's to make.

Just because MS has tons of money doesn't mean they will throw it away.

That's like having Google getting into making airplanes because surely the billions of profits they make can keep the company afloat even if they sell zero planes.

MS can such huge profits and expectations, Xbox is their worst performing division, which drags down margins which Wall St hates.

Sony on the other hand for the past 10+ years has such a low benchmark, that even if the gaming side made $1 of profit they'd take it. When the company was losing tons of employees and that TV division was some reason losing billions (the majority of the losses), Sony would take any division scraping any profits.

 

[ViceGrity2000]

Microsoft can continue to coast on the Xbox and make random heavy investments like they do now, overall it wouldn't effect company much if Xbox wasn't succedding as seen by this generation.

I don't believe that. I don't think anyone does, least of all Microsoft.

If Xbox shows up next gen and performs as poorly as this gen, I don't believe it will be ok.

 

[Rogas]

Just because MS has tons of money doesn't mean they will throw it away.

That's like having Google getting into making airplanes because surely the billions of profits they make can keep the company afloat even if they sell zero planes.

MS can such huge profits and expectations, Xbox is their worst performing division, which drags down margins which Wall St hates.

Sony on the other hand for the past 10+ years has such a low benchmark, that even if the gaming side made $1 of profit they'd take it. When the company was losing tons of employees and that TV division was some reason losing billions (the majority of the losses), Sony would take any division scraping any profits.

I don't think you understand, any one generation where Sony doesn't do exceedingly well would have severe implications on the company. Microsoft doesn't have that issue as the OG Xbox and Xbox One were mostly failures, and it didn't impact them in the slightest.

 

[Rhazer Fusion]

That's because you're a fanboy. If you're going to quit gaming because Sony doesn't exist anymore then lol. What happens when Microsoft start to make entries for Uncharted, TLOU, GoW? Are you going to ignore them?

Do you have a PlayStation tattoo or something?

I can actually understand being upset when your favorite companies get bought out. The same way if all Japanese developers disappeared, I would probably quit all modern gaming as well. It seems like companies are rarely the same after an acquisition based on history.

Also, people are doing too much assuming for the future. I still don't see anything indicating that Microsoft will dominate next generation. Bottom line is, we do not know what surprises the big three have for us next generation. Even Nintendo could announce something ground breaking that will turn the console world upside-down next generation.

 

[ViceGrity2000]

I don't think you understand, any one generation where Sony doesn't do exceedingly well would have severe implications on the company. Microsoft doesn't have that issue as the OG Xbox and Xbox One were mostly failures, and it didn't impact them in the slightest.

I don't think Microsoft as a company is interested in continuing to invest in product failures.

 

[Cleared_Hot]

Doubt it. I'll believe it when I see it.

 

[ViceGrity2000]

I can actually understand being upset when your favorite companies get bought out. The same way if all Japanese developers disappeared, I would probably quit all modern gaming as well. It seems like companies are rarely the same after an acquisition based on history.

Also, people are doing too much assuming for the future. I still don't see anything indicating that Microsoft will dominate next generation. Bottom line is, we do not know what surprises the big three have for us next generation. Even Nintendo could announce something ground breaking that will turn the console world upside-down next generation.

Yeah man

 

[StreetsofBeige]

I don't think you understand, any one generation where Sony doesn't do exceedingly well would have severe implications on the company. Microsoft doesn't have that issue as the OG Xbox and Xbox One were mostly failures, and it didn't impact them in the slightest.

Sure it affects them. Not is a life or death survival way, but it still affects them.

MS has high expectations. MS even laid off 10,000+ people years ago to keep profits up. They let go just as many people Sony did years back even though MS makes billions of profits. Xbox is now supposedly 10% or $10 billion (I forget) of company sales. And gaming has been anywhere from a loss to a slight profit. MS is not making big profits on Xbox, which drags down their profits and margins.

The key difference is MS and Sony have different goals and expectations. If MS's Office Productivity division made $5 billion profits that would probably be a failure. If Sony had a division making $5 billion profit, all employees would probably max out their annual bonus.

 

[Foxbat]

Ok fine. Keeping the discussion purely on power, I still don't think anyone believes the 1X provides superior super sampling image quality on a 1080p HDTV over the PS Pro. This isnt quantifiable or digestible to the general public and to most sounds like b.s. Its not straight forward and verifiable like when the debate centred around 1080p vs. 900p or even 720p.

The 1X in truth is a marketing smoke and mirrors, because its claim as the most powerful console ever made, comes with a huge astrik and caveat, it requires the purchase of an additional expensive TV to realize. That is where that power debate ended.

First things first. TLW is never correct. He is the most blatant fanboy on this forum. It would actually surprise me more if he wasn't paid by Sony.

Secondly, everything in your post here is just an obvious attempt at downplaying the X's superior hardware vs the Pro's, while simultaneously up-playing the standard PS4's hardware over the XB1.

You can create any narrative you want. Just don't expect anyone to buy it.

 

[Athena~]

Doubt it. PS5 will win easily.

 

[Lort]

You people are assholes. Who would deny that MS has really stepped it up this gen after a bad start?

Those who are afraid their team may loose and believe their only defense is a missinformation campaign in the vein hope that it works on someone.

 

[Zangiefy360]

Microsoft can do whatever it wants, but until it gets Japanese developer support I'm not going to bite.

Also, making Halo not suck again would help.

 

[Lort]

Ok fine. Keeping the discussion purely on power, I still don't think anyone believes the 1X provides superior super sampling image quality on a 1080p HDTV over the PS Pro. This isnt quantifiable or digestible to the general public and to most sounds like b.s. Its not straight forward and verifiable like when the debate centred around 1080p vs. 900p or even 720p.

The 1X in truth is a marketing smoke and mirrors, because its claim as the most powerful console ever made, comes with a huge astrik and caveat, it requires the purchase of an additional expensive TV to realize. That is where that power debate ended.

It is quantifiable .. here let me quantify it for you. 4k > 1800p

 

[Lort]

Doubt it. PS5 will win easily.

If by win you mean sell slightly more dedicated consoles despite being worse in every respect .. your right they might.

Of course if you mean in total sales Microsoft store and installed base crushes Sony, which is why they are changing to software as a service.

 

[Rogas]

Sure it affects them. Not is a life or death survival way, but it still affects them.

MS has high expectations. MS even laid off 10,000+ people years ago to keep profits up. They let go just as many people Sony did years back even though MS makes billions of profits. Xbox is now supposedly 10% or $10 billion (I forget) of company sales. And gaming has been anywhere from a loss to a slight profit. MS is not making big profits on Xbox, which drags down their profits and margins.

The key difference is MS and Sony have different goals and expectations. If MS's Office Productivity division made $5 billion profits that would probably be a failure. If Sony had a division making $5 billion profit, all employees would probably max out their annual bonus.

And it's a miracle that Sony has been able to thrive and succeed for as long as they have. Microsoft and Sony have entirely different scopes and scales, it's kinda embarrassing for Microsoft that Sony has been kicking their ass for so long (bar the X360) despite being ant sized in comparison. But Microsoft's priorities have been out of whack for a long time, stuff like the Kinect specifically. Phil Spencer though, is Microsoft's silver bullet. He knows what gamers want, past heads like Don Mattrick and Peter Moore were clueless businessmen.

Phil loves gaming and will put Microsoft's priorties inline with what gamers actually want. Up until this point, we haven't seen the true potential of Microsoft's investment in gaming and that will be fully realized next gen. I'm not saying Microsoft will win next gen but they will take a healthy cut of Sony's userbase. Sony will win the generation but the success of the PS5 will not match the PS4's success. This will continue for the gen after as Xbox slowly chips away at PlayStation's userbase until they eventually overtake them. At that point, PlayStation will no longer be profitable as it once were and likely sold off to Microsoft to prevent any Google/Amazon buyouts for entry into the market. PlayStation's IPs are a goldmine and an asset for any company. Or they go third party like Sega.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

And it's a miracle that Sony has been able to thrive and succeed for as long as they have. Microsoft and Sony have entirely different scopes and scales, it's kinda embarrassing for Microsoft that Sony has been kicking their ass for so long (bar the X360) despite being ant sized in comparison. But Microsoft's priorities have been out of whack for a long time, stuff like the Kinect specifically. Phil Spencer though, is Microsoft's silver bullet. He knows what gamers want, past heads like Don Mattrick and Peter Moore were clueless businessmen.

Phil loves gaming and will put Microsoft's priorties inline with what gamers actually want. Up until this point, we haven't seen the true potential of Microsoft's investment in gaming and that will be fully realized next gen. I'm not saying Microsoft will win next gen but they will take a healthy cut of Sony's userbase. Sony will win the generation but the success of the PS5 will not match the PS4's success. This will continue for the gen after as Xbox slowly chips away at PlayStation's userbase until they eventually overtake them. At that point, PlayStation will no longer be profitable as it once were and likely sold off to Microsoft to prevent any Google/Amazon buyouts for entry into the market. PlayStation's IPs are a goldmine and an asset for any company. Or they go third party like Sega.

You make it sound like Sony is a small company that has zero experience or branding in gaming. Sony should be dominating as it's been a successful brand since the 90s and Sony also is a hardware company at heart.

Just because MS is a big company doesn't mean automatic success. Google has tried it's hand at various things and they bomb too. It's like bringing up how Samsung and LG (which were associated to being junky brands) somehow turned it around and overtook Sony in electronics sales and quality. There's surely reasons why Sony tvs stagnated while Korean brands zoomed up the charts.

 

[Foxbat]

It is quantifiable .. here let me quantify it for you. 4k > 1800p

Yeah, it was apparent that his argument fell apart when he attempted to divert the discussion towards sales. Once that trick was shot down, he relegated his point to "blah blah blah, there really isn't a difference."

 

[thelastword]

The same can be said for Pro. Why is it the same starting price of $400, when it came out 3 years after PS4 OG and the only key difference is a better gpu. The rest of the specs boosts are tiny. The system got bigger, only has 1 extra gb of ram (for devs), didn't even bother putting in a 4k drive, and despite being promoted with a big "4k" symbol, has almost no native 4k games and can't even play 4k movies. Going by DF analysis, the Pro's most comfortable resolution zone is 1440p. lol

If Pro is going to be $400, why should X be less than $500? X is a big leap over Pro and the older Xbox/PS4 OG. Much bigger spec boosts, 4gb of ram (for gaming), a 4k drive, and despie being the most power is actually the smallest form factor.

But don't worry thelastword. While you enjoy driving a Civic like the other gazillion people in world, some people like driving BMWs where they don't care if it sells fewer units.

PRO is a 4.2TF GPU vs a 1.84TF GPU in vanilla PS4 with custom hardware like checkerboarding, Features like RPM, the Id buffer, and many other features built in, at the hardware level double the rops and larger CU's over what's in XBONEX...

XBONEX has 4 more CU's than PRO, has less rops, Has 4 GB's more memory if you discard the extra 1 GB (DDR3) PRO came with which offsets many tasks done with GDDR5 in simul.....Whilst PS4 vanilla was based on older AMD hardware (HD 7870), PRO is based on Polaris with Vega features.....It's a bigger upgrade than XBOX Vanilla to PS4 vanilla and a bigger upgrade than PRO to XBONEX...