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[Chittagong]

I agree, that art was some of the finest, most inspiring concept art I have ever seen. That one guy's (whose name we'don't even know) concept art is solely responsible for people getting so excited about Epic Mickey, in my opinion. How none of that magic rubbed onto the actual product baffles the mind.

 

[axisofweevils]

Guess this means Spector won't get to make the DuckTales game

 

[indigo-cyclops]

I dont know how you can have that jaw dropping concept art probably some of the coolest i've ever seen and then have game look nothing like it or evoke any of the spirit of it.

if you gave me a game that looks like this and plays well on pc i wouldve bought a collectors edition and i dont do that.

Totally agree; I was set on seeing a dark, haunting take on the Mickey/Disney universe. Well, that didn't happen.

 

[qizah]

Not surprising considering the sales of Epic Mickey 2. Hope all the hard workers find work as soon as they can.

 

[Secret Fawful]

- Who or what is the target audience? The games are basically fan love letters to Disney's pre-feature film short animations, with a little bit of Disneyworld/land thrown in. I think most Disney fans would not really see characters, worlds, ideas, or themes that they actually enjoy.
- Some people didn't like the silent, hand-animated cutscenes, which I understand were themselves a throwback to some previous Disney era none of the target audience had heard of. Personally, I liked them.

Then "most Disney fans" need to get an education in the company's history.

 

[magicalsoundshower]

I just read about this - of course this is a sad affair, but I get the feeling the studio itself was so ill-conveived even Spector couldn't save it. I mean, he made some of his best games by teaming up with top-tier programmers and this clearly wasn't happening here.

 

[Stumpokapow]

Then "most Disney fans" need to get an education in the company's history.

"dear prospective audience,

you aren't good enough for our product"

not a great way to get rich

 

[JDSN]

Yes, it's true. The Junction Point journey is over. To all those who've asked, or want to ask, I'm sad but excited for the future.

JPS had a good eight year run. I got to work with some amazing people on some amazing projects. I've had some of the most magical times of my life, fulfilling several life-long dreams. I've gotten to know Disney fans and Disney cast members, gotten hands on with Disney's history, walked where Walt walked... "Magical" really is the only word.

But now it's time to... (Man, I almost said, "now it's time to say goodbye to all our fa-mi-ly..." Which would have led me right to "M-I-C-K-E-Y-M-O-U-S-E!"). Let's just say, now it's time to move on to the next adventure. I honestly don't know what that will be yet, so don't ask. (And while we're on the subject of asking, if you're a journalist, don't bother - all press inquiries go to Brian Nelson and Carrie Davis over at Disney.)

Anyway, whatever you think of me, or Junction Point, or Disney or the Disney Epic Mickey games - yes, I know we polarized people! - I'll always look back on the last eight years with nothing but pride. Rarely have I worked with a team more dedicated or harder working. Never have I been part of a game - of anything, really - that touched people at as deep or personal a level as the Epic Mickey games. That's priceless.

I said to myself as Junction Point embarked on the Epic Mickey journey that, worst case, we'd be "a footnote in Disney history." Looking back on it, I think we did far better than that. With Mickey Mouse as our hero, we introduced a mainstream audience to some cool "core game" concepts... and, most especially, we restored Oswald the Lucky Rabbit to a place of prominence.

WE did that.

Junction Point.

I'll always be grateful to Disney for that opportunity, to the folks who helped out along the way in Glendale, on the studio lot in Burbank, at the parks in Anaheim and Orlando and Paris, at Disney offices around the world and at Pixar. (You know who you are!) I'm grateful to the Disney fans, bloggers and historians who embraced me, the team and our work - that was huge. And, most especially, I'll always be grateful to the folks – the family – at Junction Point who did all the real work.

I'll see all of you in the future!

And, really, press inquiries go to Brian and Carrie!

As usual, he comes across as a humble smart guy, I wish him success.

 

[@MUWANdo]

Basically, it's the De Blob story all over again. Original game on Wii leads to great success. Sequel on multiplatform is worse, and despite the expanded audience, ends up selling far worse too.

Who thought de Blob 2 was worse than the original?

 

[A Black Falcon]

I guess he won't be doing a Duck Tales game anytime soon.

That might be the worst thing about this.

 

[dark_chris]

Hopefully this guy lands on his feet:

He earned it...

IM sure he will.
I remember the bannings in that thread that pertained to this art style and people finding out it was coming out for the Wii.
I honestly thought if the game woulda been like this and the other crazy styles, it woulda been amazing, but Epic Mickey was still a good game on its own.

 

[EDarkness]

I have friends who worked at Junction Point. I'm sad to see them out of a job, but also not surprised at the fate of the company.

 

[StrangeADT]

Sad for the people working there, but Spector is probably better off working somewhere non-Disney.

My very first thought was about this. Hopefully Spector stops toying around and makes some real games now.

 

[Eusis]

That might be the worst thing about this.

On the plus side this keeps it open for Platinum games!

Not as insane as it sounds. Moot point if he wasn't heavily involved or doesn't want to go back anyway.

My very first thought was about this. Hopefully Spector stops toying around and makes some real games now.

They were plenty real games, problem is I imagine he needs to work with people who better understand how to get a good game developed, whether that's keeping development times within a range they can do a good job or offer better feedback to create a really good game (if they learned from even half of what was wrong with Epic Mickey 1 then 2 probably could've been a very solid 3D platformer.)

 

[Amagon]

Good luck ex-Junction Point Studios staff

 

[Anticitizen One]

This wouldn't have happened if Epic Mickey stayed true to the original concept art and was released for pc, Xbox 360 and Ps3

 

[EDarkness]

This wouldn't have happened if Epic Mickey stayed true to the original concept art and was released for pc, Xbox 360 and Ps3

There was nothing wrong with it being on the Wii. The biggest problem was the game was broken and needed to be designed better. It's a failing on the creators and not the system. There is no guarantee that the game being on the 360/PS3/PC it would have been a better game.

 

[Eusis]

This wouldn't have happened if Epic Mickey stayed true to the original concept art and was released for pc, Xbox 360 and Ps3

If they kept the original concept but the game wasn't actually better this would have still happened. Might have happened even quicker actually if you excluded Wii: that's probably the best place to get the purchases from people who want Disney games, or at least too significant of an area to ignore.

But seriously, if the original game was good, or maybe the sequel was a HUGE improvement with the news of it being so spreading like wild fire I'm sure things would be very different. If the first game was good many would've eagerly anticipated this, and if this was really good instead the people who bought the original may've been inclined to give the series another shot and made sales a larger fraction of the original at least. I know I was willing to give a chance if they improved it, but they ultimately didn't, so I passed.

 

[Femmeworth]

How many studios are left in Austin now?

 

[Katzii]

This wouldn't have happened if Epic Mickey stayed true to the original concept art and was released for pc, Xbox 360 and Ps3

I was waiting for the person who was going to say this, because like a few people, I couldn't disagree with you more.

The first game, for what it was worth, was fairly competent and the selling figures reflected this.

No amount of steampunk or darkness would have made the game sell better, nor would it have made for a better game. If anything, it probably would have sold worse purely for the concept since I'm sure a lot of the purchases of Epic Mickey came from parents, and the first game at least was a loveletter of fanservice in the form we received it.

 

[Glass Rebel]

How many studios are left in Austin now?

Still quite a few (green).

 

[Night_Trekker]

Lame :/

I hope Spector can find somewhere else he's a better fit... 'cause I don't think that was the place. (Either that or he's lost his talent, George Lucas-style. And I don't believe that.)

 

[Opie666]

How many studios Walt Disney has closed?

I remember BlackRock studio and now this one... I guess its never good to be a game studio associated to walt disney.

 

[Glass Rebel]

How many studios Walt Disney has closed?

I remember BlackRock studio and now this one... I guess its never good to be a game studio associated to walt disney.

Propaganda Games was the other one (Turok 2008, Tron: Evolution).

 

[Opie666]

Oh yeah! You are right
I guess Avalanche is probably the next studio that will close if disney infinity dont sell...

 

[Dram]

Does anyone have that list of companies that have closed this gen?

 

[MaxwellGT2000]

This really makes me sad I kinda had that feeling when their facebook requested everyone check their emails when they return to work, that was Monday night... ;_; sure Epic Mickey 2 wasn't great but the original was pretty decent and had promise, how could the second lose that much money? *depression*

 

[JaseC]

Lame :/

I hope Spector can find somewhere else he's a better fit... 'cause I don't think that was the place. (Either that or he's lost his talent, George Lucas-style. And I don't believe that.)

Spector waxed lyrical about his love for Disney, particularly its vintage stuff, in the lead up to the release of Epic Mickey. The fact he bumbled this passion when manifested in video game form twice suggests the very thing you fear.

 

[Data West]

Hoping Avalanche turns out ok. Those dudes make good kids games.

 

[The_Afroman]

I think this is the early art we first saw..

http://www.unseen64.net/2009/09/28/epic-mickey-wii-concept/

 

[Opie666]

Does anyone have that list of companies that have closed this gen?

just in 2012
http://ca.ign.com/articles/2012/12/11/20-studios-we-lost-in-2012

 

[doctorcdcs]

Looks like it's time to pick up these titles at some point. I heard the EM2 is pretty bad, but which platform would be the best one to pick up the game on? The least suckiest out of all o of em, I guess?

 

[Eusis]

Spector waxed lyrical about his love for Disney, particularly its vintage stuff, in the lead up to the release of Epic Mickey. The fact he bumbled this passion when manifested in video game form twice suggests the very thing you fear.

Well, I think it may be that he needs the right place, but less because he's lost his touch and more that he needs to be part of the right group. Maybe Junction Point didn't actually have the right complimenting people, or the corporate side wasn't really the best match. Plus we can see with games like Arkane's that he clearly wasn't the only motivating force for how games like Deus Ex turned out, he even stressed that they're team efforts in that infamous IGN article.

 

[Poona]

Yes they were, the second one in particular. Epic Mickey sold OK on the back of the brand, but it wasn't a good game and people weren't interested in the second one (which was even worse).

I bought the First title on Wii, didnt have much fun with it, which I was bummed about as I basically got a Wii for it.

Gave it a second go with the second game on 360, and was glad I did. So much better! Full proper voice acting, everything looked so much better, and it was just a more fun experience overall. It was good to be playing a good Mickey game again (last time I had done so was on the Mega CD with Mickey Mania).

I was really hoping to see more from that world, and the possible Ducktales or Donald Duck based game they were talking of. I guess all I can hope for at the moment is that we see more of Oswald after these games brought him back.

 

[Maxrunner]

Hopefully this guy lands on his feet:

He earned it...

He's he one of the guys who went to Retro??? my god Retro always has top notch artists...

 

[herod]

HD claims another victim.

 

[JasonUresti]

Well, I think it may be that he needs the right place, but less because he's lost his touch and more that he needs to be part of the right group. Maybe Junction Point didn't actually have the right complimenting people, or the corporate side wasn't really the best match. Plus we can see with games like Arkane's that he clearly wasn't the only motivating force for how games like Deus Ex turned out, he even stressed that they're team efforts in that infamous IGN article.

Yes, Warren was always working with and benefiting greatly from the talents of guys like Harvey Smith, Doug Church, Randy Smith, etc.

Warren's rep is similar to Levine's and Molyneaux, they get credit and praise for a lot of stuff that they actually had very little to do with, and much of that is do to fans and the enthusiast press' desire to create Gaming Genius figures that can be compared to directors.

 

[Ingueferroque]

Whoever managed that business deserves to get sued. What the hell were they thinking?

HD claims another victim.

Has nothing to do with HD.

 

[JaseC]

Warren's rep is similar to Levine's and Molyneaux, they get credit and praise for a lot of stuff that they actually had very little to do with, and much of that is do to fans and the enthusiast press' desire to create Gaming Genius figures that can be compared to directors.

This ultimately depends on how much say he had in gameplay design versus general creative direction.

 

[Moff]

too bad for the employees, but personally I'm kinda glad spector is out of there. even after those 2 games, I'm very much looking forward to his next projects, I just hope its not mobile games.

 

[Vaati]

I feel bad for the people who lost their jobs but I'm really glad we won't be getting any more Epic Mickey games.

I only played the first one but it was one of the worst games I have ever played.

 

[Limanima]

Understandable I guess. Epic Mickey 2 got horrible reviews. I haven't even played it since every review stated it was worse then the original, and I didn't think too much of that. Surprised that a developer of Warren Spector's stature couldn't "get" platformers.

Still, sucks for all those that lost their jobs.

It shouldn't be. Failing in a game should not mean "out of the business", just like failing in a car model does not mean "out of the business" for a car manufacturer. Something needs to change fast in the video games industry.

 

[Smiles and Cries]

The Disney Infinity developer is placing themselves in the same hands here.
If the game fails on all those platforms smh

 

[Dark Octave]

Disney Interactive shuttered two of its game development studios in 2011: Propaganda Games (Turok, Tron: Evolution) and Black Rock Studio (Pure, Split Second).

God dammit! I had no idea.

Both of those games were pretty good.

This gen has taken no prisoners. Brutal.

 

[Pociask]

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-01-29-warren-spectors-juntion-point-studios-shuttered

I've dogged on Epic Mickey and Warren Spector's choice to make a love letter to Disney characters no one has ever heard of, but this is still sad.

Even if Disney is switching to a mobile focus, you'd think they'd want to keep on board a legendary game designer who clearly loves all things Disney to oversee Disney properties being used in games.

The most baffling part of this is how Warren almost refused to see the problems with EM1. He continuously defended the camera system from the first game after everyone hated it, and didn't bother to fix it for the sequel, either. And so on with other problems from the first game. I hope Gamasutra runs one of those post-game debriefings of the story of the two games.

 

[TheOddOne]

I thought they would survive. Although their Design Director and Lead Producer leaving over the course of months was telling.

Good luck to all those effected.

 

[GhaleonQ]

It shouldn't be. Failing in a game should not mean "out of the business", just like failing in a car model does not mean "out of the business" for a car manufacturer. Something needs to change fast in the video games industry.

Putting out 1 popular but toxic model, 1 failed model, and 1 licensed-out model as your 1st 2 1/2 products does, though. Gas Powered Games they were not.

 

[Diggeh]

The removal of Scrapper Mickey should've been the first indication that the game wouldn't match the dark style of the concept art.

"People don't like when you mess with Mickey," said creator Warren Spector. "We did a focus test that was really eye-opening for me. There was a biker dude saying, 'Oh, I'd never play a Mickey Mouse game,' and then we showed him images of a changed Mickey. I was sitting there thinking, 'You're gonna love what we do,' but he said, 'No! Don't mess with my childhood.'"

Warren went extremely soft on the original vision because they didn't want to "change Mickey". Which was the whole point of the game.

Also, Warren, remember Runaway Brain, the cartoon you always touted as the pinnacle of a great Mickey cartoon? Everyone loves that deranged Mickey.

Thanks biker dude.

An artist that worked on the two games also revealed concept art that fits the twisted vision of the original concept: Thinner Mickey.

Epic Mickey concept art. Warren Spector said, "Go crazy with these designs and if it's too far we'll reign it back in."
This one went a little too far

Imagine Mickey slowly becoming a nightmarish degenerate due to thinner abuse. Would've been a great concept/incentive for players to play heroically.

Oh, and Mickey was originally going to attack with his own essence, not a paintbrush.

Just as a bonus, here's some original concept art of the Storm Blot from when Oswald was originally the main villain, showing how they were testing the dark aspect of the concept art.

What could've been.

 

[JaseC]

What could've been.

What should've been.

 

[Katzii]

What should've been.

What I'm glad wasn't.