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[phosphor112]

Every engines are possible, if you disable some features.
Epic just doesn't care about Nintendo.

Didn't they say UE4 will scale for different hardware better?

I don't think Epic know about any other platforms' power, they are just assuming 720 or PS4 will be significantly more powerful than Wii U.

Anyway, I have been more impressed by CryEngine lately.

Mark Rein has already said that UE4 is something you only want to scale up in.

The question right now is, "up from where."

Current answer is "next-gen" from his own mouth... but... this latest comment makes it sound like Wii U can't handle it.

Ambiguity everywhere...

 

[KageMaru]

No, I'm saying the only major improvement of hardware DX11 requires is tesselation.

Please read my posts next time, and stop responding like an ass.

I have read your posts and I'm not trying to be an ass but you're way off the mark in your posts. Not be an ass, but even this one is horribly wrong.

 

[Micerider]

That's not what I said, is it? There most definitely will be new features and customizations in both Durango and PS4 hardware.

What I'm saying is that there are no concepts that are being discussed that would expand the featureset of next generation GPU in a dramatic way. This was different a few years ago, when tesselation was actively discussed (and added onto DX10 Radeon cards too) and before that unified shaders as well. For years, every new generation of GPUs has increased the flexibility with which graphics can be programmed. Now GPUs are really just huge units of compute engines that can be programmed in any way programmers like - there's not much flexibility to add to that. There hasn't been much since 2006. It's hard to think of things that modern GPUs cannot do based on the graphics pipeline that we've had for years.

Now, of course there will be some neat tricks present in the GPUs of all three next generation consoles, but given how graphics are being done nowadays none of those customizations is likely to be a substantial blockade for cross-portability. It's power where the difference will be. The Wii U will likely not reach half the performance of the next Xbox and PS chips, but power by itself does not define whether a console can 'run' an engine.

For now, DirectX 11 is a convenient way to discuss featureset because a GPU supporting a DirectX 11 featureset is a modern GPU with modern shader processors and a modern tesselation unit. That is why I'm using the term. At least two (and I expect three) of the next-gen consoles will feature a chip with that featureset, though with some customization added on top. With each of them having the vast majority of important features in common (and all of them being made by AMD as well), portability should not be a problem when it comes to supported features.

In short, 'can the Wii U run UE4?' right now I'm inclined to say yes. 'Will it run UE4?' I'm going to say probably. Epic doesn't like Nintendo but even despite the status of third party games on Nintendo home consoles, it's income they won't want to miss. Needless to say the version of UE4 for Wii U will likely be somewhat of an afterthought and due to lack of power will never quite shine the way it does on the other consoles.
The new graphics pipeline wouldn't require new graphics architecture, but it would be an engine tailored to use a modern GPU in conjunction with an additional, smaller, GPU like is rumoured for PS4 and Durango. I find the benefits of such an architecture unclear, and the scalability of the engine would be reduced massively, so I'm quite skeptic of it right now. But it's the only realistic scenario I see where UE4 physically cannot run on Wii U.

I see your argument here, but it seems that the discussion revolves too much around GPU capabilities, whereas the other blocking factors for an engine to run on a machine could also be linked to CPU and memory.

Weren't there rumors that set the UE4 as an engine heavily optimised for multi-thread, to a scale that goes far beyond current gen (16 concurrent threads etc...)? If this is confirmed, I could clearly see why a Wii-U that would (as rumored) be in the same ball-park as current gen CPU might have some issues to use UE4 (this is purely speculation, I'm just trying to use a counterpoint to see what consoles could and could not use the UE4 enging).

 

[DCKing]

I have read your posts and I'm not trying to be an ass but you're way off the mark in your posts. Not be an ass, but even this one is horribly wrong.

I'd appreciate you'd use facts when countering my statements instead of 'lol', 'lmao' or 'you're wrong'.

You can start by demonstrating what major features of DirectX 11 require updated hardware. HINT: Compute shaders and multithreaded rendering don't require new hardware going from DX10.

 

[BurntPork]

Are we really still on this Wii U=in league with ps4/xb3 thing?

Really?

Are you really still on this false accusations thing?

Really?

Nobody is saying that; it's just being said that it is possible that Wii U will have DX11 class hardware. Show how that's impossible.

Spoiler

Also, you'll live longer if you stop being so bitter over nothing.

 

[Pachterballs]

So much ... What's the word for it ... Damage control from the wiiU camp. I think mark's pretty clear on what he means.

Wii U-nderwhelmaton. No ue4

 

[DCKing]

I see your argument here, but it seems that the discussion revolves too much around GPU capabilities, whereas the other blocking factors for an engine to run on a machine could also be linked to CPU and memory.

Weren't there rumors that set the UE4 as an engine heavily optimised for multi-thread, to a scale that goes far beyond current gen (16 concurrent threads etc...)? If this is confirmed, I could clearly see why a Wii-U that would (as rumored) be in the same ball-park as current gen CPU might have some issues to use UE4 (this is purely speculation, I'm just trying to use a counterpoint to see what consoles could and could not use the UE4 enging).

Well, true. I've heard rumours floating about that the 3DS could have gotten a port of UE3 if it had enough memory to allow the UnrealScript interpreter to run. I find it hard to imagine what Epic could do to create an engine that has a hard requirement for a very powerful multithreaded CPU and 2 GB of memory however. Especially when the engine is still mostly a framework for rendering graphics.

 

[Pachterballs]

There´s no point in make UE4 compatible for Wii U, because no third party is going to make games for it.

O snap

This thread is a comedy gold mine. Reading from the front now and it's very amusing

 

[BurntPork]

O snap

This thread is a comedy gold mine. Reading from the front now and it's very amusing

It'll be more amusing after E3.

 

[Horse Armour]

Well, true. I've heard rumours floating about that the 3DS could have gotten a port of UE3 if it had enough memory to allow the UnrealScript interpreter to run. I find it hard to imagine what Epic could do to create an engine that has a hard requirement for a very powerful multithreaded CPU and 2 GB of memory however. Especially when the engine is still mostly a framework for rendering graphics.

2GBs of memory for Wii U?! Come on. We've got tons of GAF posters, Beyond3D knowledgeable people and sites like DigitalFoundry saying that it's extremely unlikely that PS4/Xbox3 will get more than 2GBs and here you are saying the Wii U will match them. You really need to bring your expectations down a bit.

 

[DCKing]

2GBs of memory for Wii U?! Come on. We've got tons of people saying that it's extremely unlikely that PS4/Xbox3 will get more than 2GBs and here you are saying the Wii U will match them. You really need to bring your expectations down a bit.

Stop putting words in my mouth and start reading my posts. I'm clearly saying 2GB of memory is a requirement the Wii U will not meet. All rumors point to the Wii U having 1 to 1.5 GB of memory.

 

[MDSLKTR]

Are we really still on this Wii U=in league with ps4/xb3 thing?

Really?

Keeping hope alive.

 

[BurntPork]

2GBs of memory for Wii U?! Come on. We've got tons of GAF posters, Beyond3D knowledgeable people and sites like DigitalFoundry saying that it's extremely unlikely that PS4/Xbox3 will get more than 2GBs and here you are saying the Wii U will match them. You really need to bring your expectations down a bit.

How much RAM do you expect in Wii U?

 

[AndyMoogle]

I think M°°nblade is saying that Wii wasn't just a one-off. It exemplifies a shift in Nintendo's hardware design philosophy that began when Iwata took over as president. All Nintendo platforms launched since he took the reigns have been designed to maximise day one profitability, and seemingly with no regard for the more advanced tech specs of the competition.

Nintendo's handhelds have always been weaker than the competition, so his point is moot.

 

[tkscz]

Mark Rein has already said that UE4 is something you only want to scale up in.

The question right now is, "up from where."

Current answer is "next-gen" from his own mouth... but... this latest comment makes it sound like Wii U can't handle it.

Ambiguity everywhere...

Mark and Tim have a tendency to have contradicting comments. Mark was the one praising the WiiU at GDC, Tim is the one in this interview. Maybe separate teams and projects?

 

[Micerider]

Mark and Tim have a tendency to have contradicting comments. Mark was the one praising the WiiU at GDC, Tim is the one in this interview. Maybe separate teams and projects?

Well, if Wii-U is, for some reason, not able to run UE4 BUT as capabilities that allows it to get close to the best UE3 can offer (Samaritan demo) well, it would still be a fantastic machine.

Mark seems to see still a lot of UE3 games coming for next-gen consoles (didn't he mentioned that he did not expect UE4 games before 2014-2015?).

 

[Father_Brain]

Well, true. I've heard rumours floating about that the 3DS could have gotten a port of UE3 if it had enough memory to allow the UnrealScript interpreter to run. I find it hard to imagine what Epic could do to create an engine that has a hard requirement for a very powerful multithreaded CPU and 2 GB of memory however. Especially when the engine is still mostly a framework for rendering graphics.

Huh, really? I had been under the impression that 3DS hasn't gotten UE3 primarily because of the PICA200's lack of programmable shaders. Interesting if true, though I'll take that with a grain of salt for now.

Mark seems to see still a lot of UE3 games coming for next-gen consoles (didn't he mentioned that he did not expect UE4 games before 2014-2015?).

Yeah, he said at GDC that he expects launch-window titles to continue using UE3. That wouldn't be too surprising, seeing as the first UE3 titles didn't ship until a year into 360's lifespan.

 

[Vinci]

This is another one of those news things that I read and just shrug, isn't it? Okay then.

*shrug*

 

[DCKing]

Huh, really? I had been under the impression that 3DS hasn't gotten UE3 primarily because of the PICA200's lack of programmable shaders. Interesting if true, though I'll take that with a grain of salt for now.

I really don't know the validity of that rumor and I couldn't even find it anywhere anymore. Someone on GAF said it I think. Grain of salt definitely deserved.

 

[sixteen-bit]

Sounds like not WiiU

 

[EDarkness]

Why do these threads always end up focusing on the Wii U? Makes it extremely hard to read.

 

[BurntPork]

Why do these threads always end up focusing on the Wii U? Makes it extremely hard to read.

Because it becomes non-news otherwise.

 

[JonathanPower]

Are you really still on this false accusations thing?

Really?

Nobody is saying that; it's just being said that it is possible that Wii U will have DX11 class hardware. Show how that's impossible.

Spoiler

Also, you'll live longer if you stop being so bitter over nothing.

Having DX11 means nothing about the power of the WiiU.

If EPIC said that they are aiming high for UE4, then they are aiming at the most powerful hw that will be available in the near future, in order to maximize the potential of the engine. Therefore, the WiiU can't be the target platform for UE4, unless the WiiU will feature high end DX11 hardware.

 

[M°°nblade]

Nintendo's handhelds have always been weaker than the competition, so his point is moot.

Actually, it was Horse Armour who made a point.
And the argument that Nintendo handhelds have always been weaker than the competition only supports his point that delivering weaker hardware isn't a new concept at all.

 

[BurntPork]

Having DX11 means nothing about the power of the WiiU.

If EPIC said that they are aiming high for UE4, then they are aiming at the most powerful hw that will be available in the near future, in order to maximize the potential of the engine. Therefore, the WiiU can't be the target platfor for UE4, unless the WiiU will feature high end DX11 hardware.

Your first sentence was my whole point.

You're right; Wii U isn't a primary UE4 platform. However, that doesn't mean that it won't ever run it if it can be scaled down and there's money to be made from putting it on Wii U. Plus, Epic wants to support iOS platforms too, and those won't catch up to a GTX 680 anytime soon.

 

[KageMaru]

Are we really still on this Wii U=in league with ps4/xb3 thing?

Really?

Can you please point out one post where someone is claiming that the Wii-U is in the same league as the PS4/720?

I don't think anyone is claiming that, the debate here is whether or not the Wii-U can run UE4.

I'd appreciate you'd use facts when countering my statements instead of 'lol', 'lmao' or 'you're wrong'.

You can start by demonstrating what major features of DirectX 11 require updated hardware. HINT: Compute shaders and multithreaded rendering don't require new hardware going from DX10.

You're right, I really should elaborate before acting like a smartass, I was just poking fun though since you seemed so certain. =p

For one, I'm not sure why you kept bringing up tessellation when DX10 supports the feature, and in reality tessellation is nothing new with AMD GPUs. Though they did update the tessellator unit in DX11.

On top of the things you listed are new texture compressions formats, improved texture cache, improvements to alpha textures, and more IIRC.

How I understand it, the jump from DX10 to DX11 is a bit greater than DX9 to DX10. It could be quite possible to design an engine around DX11 and have difficulties scaling it back to older architectures.

 

[tkscz]

I'll be honest, as long as it (WiiU) can run Cryengine 3.4 (which looks extremely beautiful in DX9) i'll be fine.

 

[dragonelite]

I'll be honest, as long as it can run Cryengine 3.4 (which looks extremely beautiful in DX9) i'll be fine.

what a engine running a other engine.
Inception much

 

[tkscz]

what a engine running a other engine.
Inception much

Sorry I said it, I mean WiiU. Sense this thread has quickly transformed into a thread about the WiiU I thought it was obvious. But could you imagine an engine running an engine?

 

[SykoTech]

Not surprised. UE4 always came of as being next gen to me.

Why is it so important to some people that Unreal Engine 4 be announced for the Wii U? I just don't get it.

If UE4 is used as much as UE3, then the Wii U would miss out on a massive amount of 3rd party games once again if it misses out. Certainly not something that loyalists want, or anyone else planning to go Wii U only next gen.

 

[DCKing]

You're right, I really should elaborate before acting like a smartass, I was just poking fun though since you seemed so certain. =p

For one, I'm not sure why you kept bringing up tessellation when DX10 supports the feature, and in reality tessellation is nothing new with AMD GPUs. Though they did update the tessellator unit in DX11.

On top of the things you listed are new texture compressions formats, improved texture cache, improvements to alpha textures, and more IIRC.

How I understand it, the jump from DX10 to DX11 is a bit greater than DX9 to DX10. It could be quite possible to design an engine around DX11 and have difficulties scaling it back to older architectures.

Thanks. For one thing, the fact that AMD GPUs sported a tesselator means nothing, because for one thing the tesselator was not required and secondly those tesselators were not 'modern' enough for the DX11 standard, so that's moot. The other things you say don't constitute major new functionality in my opinion, are not always completely dependent on hardware and don't make a blip of a difference in actual games. DX11 was much more of an evolution of DX10 than DX10 was to DX9, which was a big overhaul.

Again, the only major new feature required in DX11 was tesselation.

 

[M3d10n]

No, UE4 was not created to run on Wii U. That should've been obvious. The question is if it'll still support running on Wii U, even though it's not what they designed it for. Hopefully Nintendo's doing good talks with Epic to figure out the barebones requirement to at least make somewhat easy ports possible on the system.

It all depends on whether UE4 is strictly DX11-only or if it can fall back to DX 10/10.1. If it's DX11-only, it's likely that Epic will keep both UE3 and UE4 around for a long time since PC gaming must be taken in account too and we're still a few years off from being safely able to have DX11-only PC games.

Thanks. For one thing, the fact that AMD GPUs sported a tesselator means nothing, because for one thing the tesselator was not required and secondly those tesselators were not 'modern' enough for the DX11 standard, so that's moot. The other things you say don't constitute major new functionality in my opinion, are not always completely dependent on hardware and don't make a blip of a difference in actual games. DX11 was much more of an evolution of DX10 than DX10 was to DX9, which was a big overhaul.

Again, the only major new feature required in DX11 was tesselation.

DX11 is far more than tesselation. There are several new GPGPU features which can be used to enable completely different rendering techniques, since they can be used at any shader (Fragment, vertex, geometry, hull).

 

[iamshadowlark]

I say its quite hilarious how bad people seem to want UE4 on Wii-U. I've read from someone who's seen the demo, that the demo won't be able to run on the Wiiu in any sort of comparable fashion.

Wii-U would probably see the vast majority of its titles on UE3, and even then it won't be able to run the advanced features. There really is no reason for a developer to license UE4 over 3 for Wii-U development. Why pay all of that extra money?

 

[dragonelite]

Can you please point out one post where someone is claiming that the Wii-U is in the same league as the PS4/720?

I don't think anyone is claiming that, the debate here is whether or not the Wii-U can run UE4.



You're right, I really should elaborate before acting like a smartass, I was just poking fun though since you seemed so certain. =p

For one, I'm not sure why you kept bringing up tessellation when DX10 supports the feature, and in reality tessellation is nothing new with AMD GPUs. Though they did update the tessellator unit in DX11.

On top of the things you listed are new texture compressions formats, improved texture cache, improvements to alpha textures, and more IIRC.

How I understand it, the jump from DX10 to DX11 is a bit greater than DX9 to DX10. It could be quite possible to design an engine around DX11 and have difficulties scaling it back to older architectures.

Shader model 5.0 brings some cool stuff such as a more object oriented approach to writing shaders with dynamic linking.

 

[DCKing]

DX11 is far more than tesselation. There are several new GPGPU features which can be used to enable completely different rendering techniques, since they can be used at any shader (Fragment, vertex, geometry, hull).

Those are not DX11 hardware features.

Programmability of the GPU was already quite possible on DX10 hardware using OpenCL. In fact, compute shaders in DX11 work on DX10 hardware.

Please stop confusing what is a new hardware feature and what it is new API feature.

@dragonelite: SM5.0 is still mostly an API feature update, I can't find whether it has additional hardware requirements.

 

[Haunted]

I'll be honest, as long as it (WiiU) can run Cryengine 3.4 (which looks extremely beautiful in DX9) i'll be fine.

You might be fine, but a shitton of third parties might see it differently when coding their UE4 powered games.

Missing out on the most popular engine of the generation has already bitten them in the ass concerning third party relations. A repeat of that would be disastrous.

 

[M3d10n]

Those are not DX11 hardware features.

Programmability of the GPU was already quite possible on DX10 hardware using OpenCL. In fact, compute shaders in DX11 work on DX10 hardware.

Please stop confusing what is a new hardware feature and what it is new API feature.

@dragonelite: SM5.0 is still mostly an API feature update, I can't find whether it has additional hardware requirements.

An API feature that requires hardware features. DX10 didn't have scatter writes (OpenCL's random access target, only available on DX11 hardware), as an example of a big feature. NVidia might have had some extra features due to CUDA, but AMD did not.

 

[DCKing]

An API feature that requires hardware features. DX10 didn't have scatter writes, as an example of a big feature. NVidia might have had some extra features due to CUDA, but AMD did not.

Fair enough.

 

[tkscz]

Wait, how did this thread turn into a thread about the WiiU running UE4? Also, does anyone know what API the WiiU will even use? Is it OpenGL 3, 3.1, 3.2, 3.3, 4.0? Or OpenGL ES 2.0 or 3.0? And at that, what API does the UE4 engine support?

 

[iamshadowlark]

Wait, how did this thread turn into a thread about the WiiU running UE4? Also, does anyone know what API the WiiU will even use? Is it OpenGL 3, 3.1, 3.2, 3.3, 4.0? Or OpenGL ES 2.0 or 3.0? And at that, what API does the UE4 engine support?

Its inevitable. Look at the quote.

Also APIs aren't very important here.

 

[pottuvoi]

Sauce?

History and future roadmaps.

Here are the 'big' changes in nvidia chips, refresh and speedbumps are not listed.

GeForce 256      	October 11, 1999 	NV10    (T&L with register combiners)
GeForce 3             	February 27, 2001 	NV20    (SM1 "aka. better combiners.)
GeForce FX 5800 	January 27, 2003 	NV30    (SM2:ish)
GeForce 6800     	April 14, 2004          NV40    (SM3)
GeForce 8800 GTX        November 8, 2006        G80     (SM4)
GeForce GTX 480 	March 26, 2010 	        GF100   (SM5)
GeForce ???             Early 2014              Maxwell (SM6?)
GeForce ???             late 2017               Echelon (SM7?)

Maxwell the next generation chip from Nvidia will be coming out 'early' 2014 and the next big leap after that will be the Echelon project in 2017. (Note Sauce links)

Earlier roadmap showed Maxwell for 2013, but it is been postponed slightly.
As Maxwell is the new architecture it is pretty much given in light of previous generations that it will be the one to introduce new programmability and thus the API must keep up with it and allow programmability to developers. (hence new Shader Model is introduced.)

Also AMD might have their next gen product earlier so that's a reason for 2013-2014 in my prediction.

 

[KageMaru]

Thanks. For one thing, the fact that AMD GPUs sported a tesselator means nothing, because for one thing the tesselator was not required and secondly those tesselators were not 'modern' enough for the DX11 standard, so that's moot. The other things you say don't constitute major new functionality in my opinion, are not always completely dependent on hardware and don't make a blip of a difference in actual games. DX11 was much more of an evolution of DX10 than DX10 was to DX9, which was a big overhaul.

Again, the only major new feature required in DX11 was tesselation.

Of course the tessellator units in older GPUs are not up to DX11 standards, but how would that matter at the time of release? You can't just dismiss something because it was overlooked, the technology was still there, just not in the same form or with the same support seen today.

I've read developer comments specifically stating that DX10 was not that exciting while expressing more interest in DX11. So take that however way you want.

And again, tessellation was not the only major new feature in DX11, there is more to the new architecture than I listed. However, it seems like you already have your mind made up.

Wait, how did this thread turn into a thread about the WiiU running UE4? Also, does anyone know what API the WiiU will even use? Is it OpenGL 3, 3.1, 3.2, 3.3, 4.0? Or OpenGL ES 2.0 or 3.0? And at that, what API does the UE4 engine support?

I would think the pre-emptive damage control by the Wii-U defense force in the first few posts caused this.

Also the system should run on it's own custom API, not some standard version.

 

[tkscz]

Its inevitable. Look at the quote.

Also APIs aren't very important here.

I understand that hardware is the main factory, but if we knew what API it supported we could make better estimates at the hardware.

 

[Kunan]

Common sense tells us that UE4 will never reach the Wii U.

Common sense says it will, unless they fucked up their architecture on a fundamental level. You don't need extreme power to run an engine, that's completely against the point of it. You need a certain hardware feature set that is supported by the engine. Feature set not meaning tons of power, but how many shaders are available and if they are fixed/flexible pipeline. If Nintendo cares at all about getting third party ports, they will be in discussions to ensure they have atleast the barebones hardware required to run the engine and its features.

The Wii fundamentally could not run the shaders of UE3 due to the way it handled shaders. Even if it was as powerful as a PS3 it still wouldn't have. This is very unlikely to be the same situation again.

The point of Samaritan is to show off what is capable with the latest PC hardware on their middleware, to say "Our system is so efficient that we have the power room left over to really crank up the visuals." The idea that the Samaritan graphics are the barrier of entry hardware requirement flies completely in the face of what the engine states its here to do. There are a lot of people here that seriously misunderstand that part.

 

[pottuvoi]

The Wii fundamentally could not run the shaders of UE3 due to the way it handled shaders. Even if it was as powerful as a PS3 it still wouldn't have. This is very unlikely to be the same situation again.

If WiiU can not fundamentaly run GPGPU code that is needed for UE4, we will have the same problem again.
This is possibility if WiiU has Shader Model 4 based GPU.

I certainly hope this is not case and we will get all 'next gen' machines with competive feature set. (Hopefully very powerful and with lots of memory as well. )

 

[iamshadowlark]

The point of Samaritan is to show off what is capable with the latest PC hardware on their middleware, to say "Our system is so efficient that we have the power room left over to really crank up the visuals." The idea that the Samaritan graphics are the barrier of entry hardware requirement flies completely in the face of what the engine states its here to do. There are a lot of people here that seriously misunderstand that part.

The point is that Samaritan is meant to be the minimum entry point for UE4. If you are not going make something at that level than it would be pointless to license UE4 when UE3 will be alot cheaper.

UE4 is meant to be way more advanced than UE3, Samaritan included.

 

[AndyMoogle]

Actually, it was Horse Armour who made a point.
And the argument that Nintendo handhelds have always been weaker than the competition only supports his point that delivering weaker hardware isn't a new concept at all.

My point was that you can't really bring up 3DS when it's right where it should be compared to older Nintendo handhelds. It's not an anomaly. It's pointless to compare their handhelds with their consoles.

They've only made one severely underpowered console, and that was the Wii.

 

[DCKing]

The point is that Samaritan is meant to be the minimum entry point for UE4. If you are not going make something at that level than it would be pointless to license UE4 when UE3 will be alot cheaper.

UE4 is meant to be way more advanced than UE3, Samaritan included.

Wrong. The Samaritan demo was specifically meant to showcase what Epic 'wanted to see in the next generation of games'. It's more of an expression of what they can do with a lot of power rather than a testimony of their efficient engine building skills.

People expect UE4 to make Samaritan graphics possible on lower end hardware. That's completely wrong. All the drawing operations necessary to render Samaritan in UE3 are exactly the same in number in UE4. If they manage to make UE4 more 'efficient', that won't drop the number of operations that need to happen enough to suddenly make lower end hardware (1200 SPU GPUs) capable of running the game.

Simply put, whether we get Samaritan or not on consoles is completely dependent on how crazy Sony and MS want to go. Not on how crazy Epic is going to go. Although a 1152 SPU chip in the PS4 would be pretty sweet, it won't run Samaritan. There's just not enough power.

The whole point of UE4 isn't to please gamers with pretty graphics. That's not what Epic makes money from. UE4 is being made to give developers a powerful set of tools that allows game developers to make awesome looking games easier, and they are surely working hard to make UE4 even better than UE3 in that area.

 

[Massa]

My point was that you can't really bring up 3DS when it's right where it should be compared to older Nintendo handhelds. It's not an anomaly. It's pointless to compare their handhelds with their consoles.

They've only made one severely underpowered console, and that was the Wii.

The 3DS is very poorly engineered imo. It's significantly less powerful than what was available on the market at its price range when it came out, and it didn't make up for that in battery life, price or portability.

 

[iamshadowlark]

Wrong. The Samaritan demo was specifically meant to showcase what Epic 'wanted to see in the next generation of games'. It's more of an expression of what they can do with a lot of power rather than a testimony of their efficient engine building skills.

People expect UE4 to make Samaritan graphics possible on lower end hardware. That's completely wrong. All the drawing operations necessary to render Samaritan in UE3 are exactly the same in number in UE4. If they manage to make UE4 more 'efficient', that won't drop the number of operations that need to happen enough to suddenly make lower end hardware (1200 SPU GPUs) capable of running the game.

Simply put, whether we get Samaritan or not on consoles is completely dependent on how crazy Sony and MS want to go. Not on how crazy Epic is going to go. Although a 1152 SPU chip in the PS4 would be pretty sweet, it won't run Samaritan. There's just not enough power.

The whole point of UE4 isn't to please gamers with pretty graphics. That's not what Epic makes money from. UE4 is being made to give developers a powerful set of tools that allows game developers to make awesome looking games easier, and they are surely working hard to make UE4 even better than UE3 in that area.

How is what I said wrong? Like I said, Samaritan level graphics are the baseline as to what to expect from UE4. UE4 is supposed to make Samaritan look like crap. I don't know what the hell you are talking about or who exactly you are referring to about with your comment about what people expect UE4 to do on lower quality hardware.

Im also gonna call bullshit on your claim of Samaritan running on UE3 vs UE4. Unless you have profiling data and benchmarks I suggest you stop talking in such absolutes when in reality you are just as clueless as the rest of us.