Oh, I know. Dude was quoting and answering V_Arnold's post tho, the one where he said he used 360 controllers (and I think he also meant official controllers) on a GFWL game to play.
Which I'm pretty sure would make his answer a bit incorrect. :-/
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eSports and the Fighting Game Community
- Thread starter Fersis
- Start date
Oh, I know. Dude was quoting and answering V_Arnold's post tho, the one where he said he used 360 controllers (and I think he also meant official controllers) on a GFWL game to play.
Which I'm pretty sure would make his answer a bit incorrect. :-/
Well, if my memory is finally giving in, it is giving in alright. I do remember swapping between a 360 controller / 360 stick a few times, and I definitely did it without any issues when I was creating an input training software in XNA just for the sake of learning the input handling
But if it really is a driver-level issue where you need to restart the game all the times.... then it is my mistake, and I am sorry for derailing the thread with it, as "being on pc", although I still think could be beneficial, but it is not the biggest issue when comparing FGC with the SCII scene for example.
And I have been using different sticks from the ones you have used and have had to jump through hoops to swap, and they do not hot swap in mid-game, so I have to return to the menu outside the game to switch them. This is with equipment that works perfectly on an Xbox 360. Of course, my sticks don't use the same PCBs that yours do.
I'm certain yours worked fine, but that wasn't my issue. You just dismissed it as a non-problem when it absolutely is not. It's better than it has been in the past, but it's still far from a dependable way to run a tournament unless you can confirm all competitors using a certain range of hardware.
Don't get me wrong, i see the value in playing on PC and what that could do for potential sponsorships. PC just really isn't all that conducive to side-by-side playing of games on the same setup like a console is. Those things are designed with it in mind. Even at the height of PC gaming, that sort of thing has mostly been an afterthought.
Bottom line is that there are enough x-factors (heh) in configuring such a setup that you don't appreciate until you've actually tried to run a tournament one. Let's face it, if your setup on a PC at home works, you're unlikely to change it much. A tournament situation introduces way more variables.
Chavelo, I wasn't ignoring your post, but between posting, editing, reposting, re-editing, and just generally being anal about not making 90 million short posts, I forgot to respond directly. I think I covered the answer in here already, though. Also, let me apologize to V_Arnold for being snippier than I intended to be in my response. I was just kind of off-put by how he dismissed it so easily when it's still very much a problem. I know he didn't mean any harm by it.
Warpticon's right: until recently, Windows' controller support simply didn't recognize USB controllers plugged in after the program was launched in just about any program you tried it in. This was, and is, a massive pain in the ass. With the 360 controllers, MS has sort of addressed this. It's sometimes possible to plug in a 360 controller mid-game and have it be auto-detected, but this comes with a couple of major caveats:
1) When it works, which isn't always, it only works for 360 controllers. It doesn't work for any of the vast number of other standard USB controllers which are popular with the PC & PS3. I can't hot-plug my PS2->USB adapter once I've booted AE PC.
2) Frankly, the 360 controller support is often broken anyway. Did any of you play Dead Rising 2 on the PC? If you did, I hope you didn't have the adapter that lets you use your official wireless 360 controller with your PC, because Dead Rising 2 did not support it. The game only worked with wired 360 controllers. IIRC it did not even support standard USB controllers.
I'm a big fan of the PC. I'll happily play fighting games on my PC. But let's not pretend it ain't a pain in the ass to do so and nobody seems to be interested in doing it right.
1) When it works, which isn't always, it only works for 360 controllers. It doesn't work for any of the vast number of other standard USB controllers which are popular with the PC & PS3. I can't hot-plug my PS2->USB adapter once I've booted AE PC.
2) Frankly, the 360 controller support is often broken anyway. Did any of you play Dead Rising 2 on the PC? If you did, I hope you didn't have the adapter that lets you use your official wireless 360 controller with your PC, because Dead Rising 2 did not support it. The game only worked with wired 360 controllers. IIRC it did not even support standard USB controllers.
I'm a big fan of the PC. I'll happily play fighting games on my PC. But let's not pretend it ain't a pain in the ass to do so and nobody seems to be interested in doing it right.
Eight Diagram Bat Fighter
Banned
The esport community doesn't want to admit it, but in order for FGC to enter the esport scene, the FGC will have to lose or heavily alter it's identity to be accepted into the esports scene. That cannot happen.
And it sucks for the people who put so much into this community, because if it blows up to the esports level, things will get locked in. You'll only see the most well-known or esports-regulated people commentate, you'll only see the major event productions stream instead of smaller productions like spooky or haunts.
The one thing I love about FGC is that we don't have things locked in. Everyone is given the chance and allowed to build the community. Everyone is approachable and no one is left out. Even the littlest things done by community members get noticed. For instance, right before EVO occurred, I asked if I can bring my lights to help with the stream. I was allowed and set up and the stream looked great. Afterwards, Capcom's Seth Killian, the EVO team and others came to me afterward and thanked me for it personally. They noticed my efforts, and all I did was bring two lights.
Things like this, along with hype that is unrivaled and the love of the community is what makes the FGC special that shouldn't change and that esports should envy.
And it sucks for the people who put so much into this community, because if it blows up to the esports level, things will get locked in. You'll only see the most well-known or esports-regulated people commentate, you'll only see the major event productions stream instead of smaller productions like spooky or haunts.
The one thing I love about FGC is that we don't have things locked in. Everyone is given the chance and allowed to build the community. Everyone is approachable and no one is left out. Even the littlest things done by community members get noticed. For instance, right before EVO occurred, I asked if I can bring my lights to help with the stream. I was allowed and set up and the stream looked great. Afterwards, Capcom's Seth Killian, the EVO team and others came to me afterward and thanked me for it personally. They noticed my efforts, and all I did was bring two lights.
Things like this, along with hype that is unrivaled and the love of the community is what makes the FGC special that shouldn't change and that esports should envy.
I don't see what would be so bad about someone having an actual paid job to do the lighting.
Yeah, it doesn't work with either of my ps2 > 360 adapters, my ps2 > PC adapter, or the paewang pcb I tried it with. It certainly didn't work with any of the other USB or PS3 controllers I used. I haven't had a chance to test it with a ps360, though. I don't suppose you have?
I don't either. I don't really think that was the point, though.
Eight Diagram Bat Fighter
Banned
My point was is that in the FGC, everyone is given the opportunity to help out in the slightest things to help build and grow the community and you'll get noticed and appreciated for your help no matter how big or small compared to the SC2 scene where only the top or most recognizable people get the attention.
CountAntonius
Member
When done right (Evo top 8 With Seth and Ultradavid commentating) Fighting games are as entertaining as anything and should have numbers and payouts on par with any other e-sport game. If it needs to mature to do that I think that's fine. It really should be shared with as many people as possible. Keeping it grass roots seems fine for everybody but the players coming in top 8 and getting paid crap for the work they put in.
Says who? Why can't they co exist? If Evo hasn't killed off smaller tourneys why would anything else?
Says who? Why can't they co exist? If Evo hasn't killed off smaller tourneys why would anything else?
I think we're still at the mercy of Capcom and the industry where everyone could easily move onto another game or genre at pretty much any time. I like the level of presentation that came with sf4, streaming, more tutorials and combo videos, more match videos on YouTube etc. Looking at what Capcom is doing with SFxTK tho, and MvC3 not matching SF4's popularity, i think all of this is on a temporary decline, but we came away with a better scene that shares a lot more info and learns faster. Personally i think we're still waiting for the right game to take it to another level beyond SF4.
Definitely. More people need to be talking about DJ Huoshen donating a grand to the next Salty Battles. Good shit, Huoshen.
That's a pretty close-minded thing to post. Who are you to say something similar doesn't happen in StarCraft? There are plenty of stories of higher-ups like MLG's own CEO Sundance giving back to the community no matter how small the contribution (just one of many examples). Getting appreciation by a community doesn't require letting reddit or GAF know of your deeds though.
Eight Diagram Bat Fighter
Banned
I said in SC2 only the most recognizable get the attention and you tried to counter that argument by using MLG CEO Sundance as an example. Thanks for proving my point.
And who am I to say that? Someone that has been part of the SC scene since broodwar, before GSL/Kespa went global and you had to download the casts. Before Tasteless was a commentator, and when Jaedong and Flash were the biggest names. I've seen the community grow for a long time. It doesn't happen nearly as much as it does in FGC.
You either didn't understand my post or didn't look at my example.
I'll break it down: Someone relatively unknown contributes to the community (in your case, you and your lights and in my example, a guy who bought a shirt), then the said unknown gets thanked or is shown some level of appreciation (Seth Killian and the EVO staff for you and Sundance for the guy in my example).
Sundance is to my example, what Seth Killian was to yours. In both cases, the higher-ups (Seth Killian and Sundance) are taking time to appreciate those that give back.
Edit: As far as you know. Again, not everyone feels the need to go on the internet and talk about the ways they've contributed to the community. That would be missing the point.
That depends on the amount of attention you talk about. The FGC seems in line with the SC2 community with only a handful of people really getting a lot of attention. But there is obviously a lot more going on in both.
More people that can sustain a living with a career in e-sports.
Becoming more popular brings in more money to the game, which has several advantages.
The players can get paid decently for their skills, perhaps even enough for playing the game to become their job. The extra practice time means they can get even better.
If players are on pro-teams then this usually lets them travel to more tournaments as the team often pays for travel. This means that instead of having a major where most people on a coast or in a country turn up you can have almost every big player turn up, and maybe even international travel to big tournaments. This raises the average skill of all the tournaments and provides higher quality games.
The events can be held in bigger arenas with more crowd capacity, the streams can be run even better because the people running the event can afford to buy high end equipment.
Eight Diagram Bat Fighter
Banned
One was due to an apology, the other wasn't.
I wasn't talking about how people get on the internet and talk about how they contribute. I was talking about how the FGC recognizes the people that do contribute no matter who they are, and a lot more often than the esports/sc2 community does.
More money and sponsors. Bigger audience, more awareness than before.
Same stuff possibly, but at a cost of losing a huge chunk of what has made it so big in the first place.
One had someone contributing to the community through monetary means and when the company could have easily ignored them, they went the extra length, acknowledged them with a hand-written apology and more goods as a means of thanking them for their support. What I'm saying is that you shouldn't be so quick to prop up one community and discredit the other when your arguments boil down to anecdotes. I've got anecdotes up my sleeves too and yours don't mean the fighting game community is leagues better than the others.
crimzonflame
Member
So the only way to compete is to make playing/training in fighting games a full time job?
One, too much elitism going on. Even from the people you least suspect.
Two, too much dickriding and cliches. Support one, support all. STFU about who, what, where is better than this, and that and this and the.
Tone down the two and the path is easier seen. Otherwise it will take longer to thread.
Two, too much dickriding and cliches. Support one, support all. STFU about who, what, where is better than this, and that and this and the.
Tone down the two and the path is easier seen. Otherwise it will take longer to thread.
Eight Diagram Bat Fighter
Banned
I didn't say which one was better, because in terms of success it would be SC2 by far. I am talking about the differences in communities. And being a part of both communities, you don't see the recognition as much as you do in the FGC. You don't.
At the cost of losing the identity that surrounds the community for the sake of what the sponsors want. No thanks.
Yeah a side effect is that it gets harder to become a top player, but not impossible. The teams would be scouting for new talent to sign up etc, same as with other esports.
I suppose in the end the choice is between a higher quality of top play thats hard to get in to or a lower quality (but still high) thats easier to get in to.
Bingo.
More $ = more time = more players = more skill. If you pay someone to play their very best and offer mad money to people who put in time you will just attract more people and let people spend more time and effort on getting better.
Also on consoles there are not as many sponsorship opportunities as PC, so there should be more investigation on figuring out the FGC and what is marketable towards them and trying to get some money that way.
As a fan who stream monsters a ton but doesn't even play fighting games I don't want to see the people in the FGC change. I want the hype, the raw commentary, the stupid memes, etc.
At the same time I also want StarCraft levels of competitiveness with bigger or more spread out prize money to draw out more talent.
I think if money is injected, it needs to be in bigger local tournaments/scenes first. The majors will always draw the big players.
The hard part is injecting money, getting better stream quality, better spectator mode, better online, better PC ports, or whatever is needed to help make the best possible contributions to helping the game grow competitively. A lot of that rests with the developer and a commitment to helping the game competitively.
StarCraft:BW (1) had zero help from Blizzard. It was just the perfect game at the perfect time in Korea. FGC has slowly built up and has always been around, only with the recent resurgence of recent fighting games has it picked up more attention.
SC II was designed from the ground up as an eSport that is meant to be viewed and it shows. Things like lack of lobbies and spectator until UMvC3 is just appalling. Same with SC II having no LAN.
You should chime in then. My perspective is from what I think after watching 4+ years of heavily sponsored and structured pro Starcraft, both BW and II. I've been watching SF IV and Marvel for over a year now and love watching that too. I'd love to see players get better supported and improve and play better in all games.
It's also SF IV at a 10,000 PC LAN tournament. So the audience might not be the best example.
I'd argue the opposite. If someone shows they are good they can get picked up and sponsored. If they aren't up to par, they don't.
Players can still enjoy the game and play at their local scene, but I want better competition in majors.
if you're using sc2 as some kind of foreboding standard, none of this has happened. to the contrary, the exposure of the larger tournaments has been nothing less less than a catalyst for an entire community of smaller, more earthy events.
i mean, in the next 24 hours we have:
1h 55m z33k 2v2 Masters
1h 55m NA Playhem Daily
1h 55m IPL TAC Slayers Di…
7h 55m [SPL] ACE vs Team 8
10h 5m [GSL] Code A RO24 D2
17h 55m IMBAtv's ISC #8
18h 25m XLENCE Cup
18h 25m IPL EU SlayerS Dig…
18h 55m GSS Pro Invitation…
19h 55m eSc
1d 1h playSC2 CS1 Finals
gsl and ipl are the only two there that even approximate the kind of sanitized institutions that you're so fearful of drowning out the diy ethic.
And in that sense, the fighting game community is, let's say it together, better? Don't worry, I knew what you meant the first time around, that's what I was addressing in my previous post.
Eight Diagram Bat Fighter
Banned
Better at one thing doesn't make them the overall better community. Let's not simplify the discussion to that level.
I both like sc2 and sf4 but fuck those bitches played bait n switch AT THE LAST TIME
call me hater .. but that sf4 tourney at dreamhack was hypeless as shit NOBODY wanted to see that , the only difference is that ppl behind a monitor where the ones to be "able" to complain (rage n troll)
call me hater .. but that sf4 tourney at dreamhack was hypeless as shit NOBODY wanted to see that , the only difference is that ppl behind a monitor where the ones to be "able" to complain (rage n troll)
And the funny thing is that this could potentially produce the opposite effect: hence the reservation. I totally get the desire to see the best assemble from everywhere and play each other more often. I want to see it, too. The thing is that there is a very real scenario in which a shift to the traditional esports model could actually harm the competitive effectiveness of the North American scene (ironically giving us an even bigger disadvantage against Asian players).
I'm not sure what you mean here.
In SC II at least, there have been reservations of inviting the Koreans (aka Japan to the FGC) to major events.
On one hand people want to see the best play. On the other, having people fly over and take your money sucks.
SC II solution: Teams like FXOpen and EG and Liquid get a decent Korean player and have them win money. BRILLIANT? Or no?
Ideal: Get better than them by having a better system to support good players.
To my knowledge people in NA seem to do very decently against what foreigners come and if they had more time to train, or more support I'd think they'd do better as a result. A NA team gets NA players to market to NA consumers. Fighting games of course.
StarCraft II has seen some solid non-Koreans play as well, but the structure of GSL makes it hard to commit to playing in Korea against arguably harder opponents for less money over a longer time.
*To people against this I'd say I just want to see better play, better streams, better production. To me, money seems like the easiest way to improve and attract skill.
If you want the FGC to stay as is and work towards becoming better on its own because it is still a fantastic and hardworking community, then that's fine too.
Freshmaker
I am Korean.
It depends. If an organization feels the need to break a fight into 5 one round matches, replace life bars with overlays that say "life supply" etc, then they clearly have no interest in presenting a product that the core audience is going to take seriously or care about.
If you try to pander to an audience without engaging it, you're going to fail and you deserve to.
FGC has its problems too though. Way too much collusion and gaming the tournament structure outside of actual game play still goes on.
I disagree about part 2 because it's important. As a almost daily Starcraft 2 watcher of streams and small tournaments there are much better and worse. And it's important to push up the good types.
In SC2 it's self-propelled now, good streams get viewers, bad ones die. There is really a competition between casters to be entertaining yet knowledgable and provide good oversight of the plays and tactics.
In the FGC I see a lot of liked casters just for their Hype. It's fine, it's fighting games but I'd like to have much better comments on what's going on, tactics, matchups, players etc.
Oh yeah, and patches. People fear that this might easily break things but we are talking about small changes. Like one single move loosing launcher properties or launching worse, one move having it's blockstun reduced by 20% etc.
But as long as the community is divided on that we will simply get a sequel each year fixing some things and breaking others. My worst experience was BlazBlue CT to CS, I started to learn Rachel. Really hard to play but I liked her style. At high level play, she was a top 2 character and people really complained about the offense and strength of her. Result: Continuum Shift came out and suddenly was Dead Bottom. Completely obliterated the whole character.
I know balancing is tough, especially in the metagame but occasionally there is stuff that is deffo op after 1 year and should get toned down.
it was part of what I was saying earlier. I'm all for financial growth as long as it doesn't detach the top players from the rest of the community. If it does, it not only hurts the remaining community, but it hurts the top players as well. As I mentioned, there are over 1400 different possible matchups in SSF4AE, over 3 million team permutations in UMvC3, hundreds of thousands of combinations in TTT2, etc. Fighting games are just way harder to become brilliant at without a high degree of high-level exposure, the kind of thing you're more likely to get from community events.
Japan is the best because there are dozens to hundreds of top players within a 1 hour bullet train ride of each other who all play against each other, trade strats, and level up. They do this while holding down day jobs, with very few of them being pro. It's just the nature of the game.
As I said before, the greatest risk of a separate league structure is dividing the community. If top players are going to league events because of the paycheck and going to community events less, that hurts the other 99% of the community. In turn, it hurts those top players because they get less competitive exposure, witness fewer playstyles and get experience against fewer characters. America loses opportunities to produce new top players.
I know that leagues such as MLG have historically had an open bracket for anyone to enter. If I'm from Atlanta, though, and there's an MLG in Ohio, if I don't have a high likelihood of finishing in the money I'm probably staying home. At the very least, I'll probably wait for a closer one, even though that hurts my ability to qualify for the finals compared to players who can make it to every one. It's tricky.
So the primary questions of the matter are: does having a separate league system isolate top players from the rest of the community? And, does a separate league hurt attendance, particularly among top players, at community events? If the answer to either is yes, we have a problem. If not, it's something worth investigating.
I think to ignore the size and popularity of Evo and to act like the FGC doesn't already have its own majors is a bit silly. And to act like the MLG and other eSports "majors" are shining beacons of hope is a bit of a joke as well. MLG was nowhere for a long time until they realized what Starcraft would bring to the table, and things like ESWC and WCG each have their own issues.
The FGC is something that works well off of the constantly changing releases in the fighting game genre, whereas the eSports community thrives off of stable long lasting titles like Starcraft, Quake, CS, Dota. (And as pointed out earlier, sponsors don't necessarily like the same game being played over and over, which is why Blizzard and Valve attempting to update these staple games in the eSports scene is as much an attempt to keep sponsor interest as it is to expand the scene and bring in new audiences.)
I wouldn't really say that the way the two communities choose their games really allows the model of one to work on the other. Sponsored new games are watched little and generally not taken seriously in eSports, whereas the FGC to a large extent is ok with the roster changes and mechanics changes that the more frequent game changes that happen in the genre.
What the hell is that supposed to mean?
The FGC is something that works well off of the constantly changing releases in the fighting game genre, whereas the eSports community thrives off of stable long lasting titles like Starcraft, Quake, CS, Dota. (And as pointed out earlier, sponsors don't necessarily like the same game being played over and over, which is why Blizzard and Valve attempting to update these staple games in the eSports scene is as much an attempt to keep sponsor interest as it is to expand the scene and bring in new audiences.)
I wouldn't really say that the way the two communities choose their games really allows the model of one to work on the other. Sponsored new games are watched little and generally not taken seriously in eSports, whereas the FGC to a large extent is ok with the roster changes and mechanics changes that the more frequent game changes that happen in the genre.
What the hell is that supposed to mean?
I've only ever been a stream monster, but I love the spirit of the FGC. The streams, the games, the personalities, I like all of it. I get that becoming an "esport" would benefit the community in many ways, but if it lost its spirit in the process, I would be very disappointed.
Agreed. I also like how I can view a lot of pro players just streaming their play. Love that first person view that big tournaments can't provide.
I feel the fighting game community would benefit from a large site like teamliquid that is extremely well organized and run. The calendar, streaming list and liquipedia are so damn valuable to me. I found getting into Starcraft way easier than getting into fighting games purely because of team liquid. Such a great site.
Eight Diagram Bat Fighter
Banned
All of those have a much higher production and manpower to stream than what you commonly see in the fgc when most of the time, it's a one man show. You'll find that my view of what a sanitized institution is constitutes most of the streams you listed, not just the GSL and IPL.
Freshmaker
I am Korean.
That was how DOA4 was presented to viewers in 2007.
Oh, random screaming coaches are also a hint of no just no.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkaJc6-I0qs
PsychoSoldier
Banned
I love the sense of community that goes into making these tournaments work, and I love that a guy like Steve can come out of nowhere and kill it on the mic for a few hours, but honestly I would be willing to give up a lot of that if we were able to get a consistently higher level of play available to us on a regular basis.
I, for one, also enjoy the League of Legends tourneys I get to watch as well, and though it's missing a bit of something that the FGC has, they have a company that is far more supportive of the tournament scene in Riot, and unless that game manages to lose a great deal of interest, I can only see the scene growing.
I, for one, also enjoy the League of Legends tourneys I get to watch as well, and though it's missing a bit of something that the FGC has, they have a company that is far more supportive of the tournament scene in Riot, and unless that game manages to lose a great deal of interest, I can only see the scene growing.
perryfarrell
Member
Good discussion on this very topic on @#^% Slasher with Skisonic.
http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/MLG_Live
(It's almost over tho.)
On the issue: I don't really see any conflicts or problems. The SC2 scene, the MOBA scene and the fighting game community are all healthy and thriving. I don't think consolidating all their events in all-encompassing tournaments is necessary or desirable. The scenes are different, and what works in one doesn't necessarily work in the other.
Perhaps an organization could be set up that makes sure there's not multiple events on the same weekend, and that sets up guidelines about the responsibilities of players, casters, sponsors, organizers, etc. to increase professionalism.
http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/MLG_Live
(It's almost over tho.)
On the issue: I don't really see any conflicts or problems. The SC2 scene, the MOBA scene and the fighting game community are all healthy and thriving. I don't think consolidating all their events in all-encompassing tournaments is necessary or desirable. The scenes are different, and what works in one doesn't necessarily work in the other.
Perhaps an organization could be set up that makes sure there's not multiple events on the same weekend, and that sets up guidelines about the responsibilities of players, casters, sponsors, organizers, etc. to increase professionalism.
you mean like the dozens of concurrent one-man streams that are a perpetual constant on tl? or how about the diy streamer's favourite twitch.tv? number of live sc2 streams: 115. number of live SFIV streams: 3.
your attempts to paint competitive sc2 as some soulless top-down corporatocracy that drowns out the little guy in order to validate the necessity of the guarded, low-key approach of the fgc is does a total disservice to the potential of both communities.
Ok, got it. Yeah I agree that that could be a problem. The FGC is very tight knit. If major events were open bracket or had some kind of seed system + open that worked well I think that could be held intact.
In fact EVO is similar to this system (The MLG seed system) right?
Right.
A lot of talk for SC:BW was in relation to Korea, and now in SC II eSports the organizations in NA seem to be not be doing the best they can. They pour lots of money in and perhaps it is not sustainable this way. As to what I hear currently it is unprofitable for organizers even with some good sponsors. They look to change this of course, but it makes me wonder what I've thought... that SC II is growing and expanding far too quickly and simply making too much content and promises in the NA scene.
EVO is absolutely fantastic and draws HUGE hype and numbers. It's got the leadup, the prize pool, the venue, the production, the players, and the casters.
Just want more EVOs per year
A majority of small tournaments (online and off) are run by one, two, or three man operations. On that giant list of tournaments a lot of it is because some guy had $100 and makes a weekly tournament for x players.
I think people really need to get over the term 'eSports'. Is it a stupid name? Absolutely. Do fighting games fall under that title? Like it or not, to the mainstream John Q. Public, yes they do. ALL competitive games fall under that title.
The FGC is afraid of losing the hype around their events if they get bigger sponsors? They could only blame themselves for losing it if they did. I mean do they think the games become dull and plane if the commentators can't say 'fuck'? UltraDavid and James Chen already don't use profanity on stream and their commentary is still colorful and can hype up a game. I mean boxing and UFC didn't lose hype when they blew up into a pay per view spectacle. There are already people in the FGC actively trying to make it blow-up further and applying some of the techniques that other games utilize. (Canada Cup's pay stream...even if it sucked, CrossCounter having a talk show on an actual set, etc.). The FGC is desperately trying to position itself as something that's different from the other competitive game communities when it really isn't.
The FGC is afraid of losing the hype around their events if they get bigger sponsors? They could only blame themselves for losing it if they did. I mean do they think the games become dull and plane if the commentators can't say 'fuck'? UltraDavid and James Chen already don't use profanity on stream and their commentary is still colorful and can hype up a game. I mean boxing and UFC didn't lose hype when they blew up into a pay per view spectacle. There are already people in the FGC actively trying to make it blow-up further and applying some of the techniques that other games utilize. (Canada Cup's pay stream...even if it sucked, CrossCounter having a talk show on an actual set, etc.). The FGC is desperately trying to position itself as something that's different from the other competitive game communities when it really isn't.
Eight Diagram Bat Fighter
Banned
You're comparing a game that's way more popular to one that isn't, of course it will have more streams. You're also forgetting how many more major tournaments dedicated to SC2 compared to street fighter. Thinking that it's not a "corporatocracy" is a total disservice.
I know the potential of the FGC, and the esports way of doing things isn't needed to achieve it.
Wake up ultra to win one million dollars! I highly doubt the games with strong come back factors could make it within e-Sports. That includes the "Big 2", Marvel and AE. It sucks because those are the two games that have the following to make it. The other games that don't have the like of X-Factor or Ultra just don't have the following.
I'm not saying that games like DotA and CS don't have come back factors. It's just way more difficult to break the steamroll in those games. People get randomed out all the time in fighting games. DotA/CS? Maybe one team out of the entire tournament will lose because they made one fucked up mistake that cost them the match WHILE in the lead.
I'm not saying that games like DotA and CS don't have come back factors. It's just way more difficult to break the steamroll in those games. People get randomed out all the time in fighting games. DotA/CS? Maybe one team out of the entire tournament will lose because they made one fucked up mistake that cost them the match WHILE in the lead.
As long as better players consistently can place higher I don't think this is as big a problem. Not saying it isn't, but it is inherent to how these games are played. The comeback factor is just another resource to use, manage, work around, or prevent from being used well. If it is still broken, it is up to developers to make that adjustment in regards to competitive play.
MLG had Halo which had tons of yelling and coaching so I guess they just went with that for fighting games.
Freshmaker
I am Korean.
That video pretty much sums up why the eSports haven't gained much traction with the FGC IMO.ogawd. I had to close it after the first round. Holy shit.
Yeah. It came across as completely tone deaf.
It's like having a shouting coach at a chess tournament.
"Oh! It adds to the drama of the scene!" It's like they thought their primary content (showing competitive fighting games being played at a high level) was unbearably weak and couldn't support viewer interest. So they tried to make it into a MMA/Boxing match with a shouty corner.
Arozay
Member
Oh god.
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