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[Mama Robotnik]

During Eurogamer's review of New Super Mario Bros. 2, the website offered opinions on the NSMB style and mechanics that have made up the last six years of 2D Mario:

The shocking thing isn't that Nintendo's Super Mario series - once the byword for creativity, a sacred cow of game design that could reliably be expected to change everything, every time - has become one of those factory-made annual franchises. It's that the developers working under Shigeru Miyamoto at the company's Kyoto headquarters - the team that made this latest outing on 3DS - is now the reserve squad.

He hops and bops through retreads and remixes of his 2D heyday to a recognisable, jaunty tune, occasionally flashing a gimmick to earn the disingenuous prefix of the game's title - but it's Tokyo's Mario that's really new. Like its predecessors on DS and Wii, and surely like the Wii U version that will appear in a few months' time, New Super Mario Bros. 2 is an old dog doing old tricks.

But the problem is that it's not one of a dozen such new ideas in New Super Mario Bros. 2. It stands alone, exposed, and as such starts to look like a gaudy distraction from the sad truth: with this series, Nintendo is overworking one of the all-time great game designs to the extent that it's starting to wear thin. This is a high-quality game by anyone's standards, but that doesn't change the fact that I spent a good deal of my time playing it feeling blasphemously bored.

The comments caught my eye, as I don't recall seeing such overt disapproval of the style in a review until this point. I personally feel there is something to this. Consider the last seven years of 2D Mario (with an unreleased title thrown in for good measure):

Now consider a different seven years of 2D Mario:

Huge changes in mechanics, experiments in vastly distinct visual styles, significant diversity in music and sound, etc. The changes seen in the franchise from Super Mario 2 through to Super Mario World 2 were awe-inspiring. The changes from NSMB through to NSMB 2 (and possibly NSMB Wii U) seem considerable less so. They seem like minor, even lazy steps in a franchise once famous for its brave and innovative leaps.

Do you agree or disagree? Does the NSMB style, now six years old, still excite you? Are Eurogamer on the ball with their points, or nitpicking? Will Nintendo release another supposedly "factory-made" NSMB game in the same style?

 

[Orayn]

In the case of 2D Mario, they're absolutely right. NSMB is nothing but safe, stale, recycled, ugly, unimaginative dreck.

3D Mario games, however, continue the trend of being mechanically awe-inspiring and unique with each installment.

 

[Fantastical]

NSMB2 and NSMBU coming out months apart is ridiculous and it shows Nintendo's painfully obvious tactic of "throw Mario at it" to get something to work.

 

[joe2187]

But...that's what he's always been...?

 

[Karsticles]

Take 4 pictures of similar worlds vs 4 pictures of highly disparate worlds, and you have an article!

 

[Orayn]

But...that's what he's always been...?

Did you even read the OP? Compare the bottom lineup of games with the top. They're similar, yes, but not carbon copies like the NSMB series.

Take 4 pictures of similar worlds vs 4 pictures of highly disparate worlds, and you have an article!

Well, hey, the NSMB worlds are exactly the same across games too.

 

[stuminus3]

This bullshit only works if you conveniently ignore the likes of Mario Galaxy and Mario 3D Land.

But I do look forward to the cynical shitcocks in the gaming press ruining the somewhat recent return of classic 2D side scrollers with their greetin' faced click generating. That's great, guys. Thanks.

 

[XANDER CAGE]

When it comes to the NSMB series, I absolutely agree. I just mind a bit less than I do about many other franchises, simply because we also get stunningly original stuff like Galaxy, 3D Land, etc. on a more reasonable basis.

NSMB is just a cog in Nintendo's nostalgia-feeding machine, but Mario's always been a nostalgia/fandom feeding machine. Look at all the damn sports games and Party titles.

 

[Bgamer90]

In the case of 2D Mario, they're absolutely right. NSMB is nothing but safe, stale, recycled, ugly, unimaginative dreck.

While I wouldn't be that harsh, I pretty much agree.

As you mentioned OP, the old 2D Marios were much more imaginative and changed a whole lot more with each iteration.

Now that I think about it, it's kind of funny how the actual Mario Bros. 2 didn't come out in America since it was too similar to the first, yet 20 years later we are getting very similar 2D Mario games.

3D Mario games, however, continue the trend of being mechanically awe-inspiring and unique with each installment.

Yep.

 

[Currygan]

it's Eurogamer. Doesn't surprise me one bit

 

[chickdigger802]

well... it's all about 3d mario now eh?

mario 64, (luigi mansion?), mario sunshine, mario galaxy and 2, mario 3d land.


I do kinda wish they could spoof up 2d mario somewhat.

 

[Electivirus]

Definitely disagree. The NSMB games in particular I still find incredibly fun. As long as the level designs stay as consistently great as have been and the games themselves are still a joy to play through, then there are no problems on my end.

 

[EatChildren]

I don't agree we're there yet, but NSMB2 is pushing it. I thought they might have been on to something quirky and different with the focus on coins, but the focus on coins turned out be just...lots of coins. ~fin

I'll reserve judgement until we get NSMBU though. Ideally that would be the sequel/successor to NSMBW that takes the franchise forward in interesting ways, meanwhile NSMB2 is a cash grab. Hopefully, anywho.

The series desperately needs to shape up the roots though. The level design is consistently good, but everything else is pretty much Mario by the books.

This bullshit only works if you conveniently ignore the likes of Mario Galaxy and Mario 3D Land.

This is what I mean when I say we're not there yet. Galaxy was wonderful, and though Galaxy 2 was based on those foundations it alone still did plenty new, and as a stand alone game is my favourite 3D platformer ever. 3D Land had problems but was also a content packed interesting game that did things none of the 3D games were doing.

NSMB2 seems to be the bastard child in this situation.

 

[LiK]

Someone finally notices.

I don't agree we're there yet, but NSMB2 is pushing it. I thought they might have been on to something quirky and different with the focus on coins, but the focus on coins turned out be just...lots of coins. ~fin

I'll reserve judgement until we get NSMBU though. Ideally that would be the sequel/successor to NSMBW that takes the franchise forward in interesting ways, meanwhile NSMB2 is a cash grab. Hopefully, anywho.

The series desperately needs to shape up the roots though. The level design is consistently good, but everything else is pretty much Mario by the books.

maybe a few new powers/costumes but i bet the enemies and music will be identical except in HD.

 

[Zee-Row]

I'm only getting the Wii U version , the 3DS NSMB looks boring visually and I hate the coin collecting aspect.

 

[TheShampion]

It's like a Nintendo fan got a hold of a Monkey's Paw and wished that there would be more good 2D Mario games for every Nintendo system.

Be careful what you wish for.

 

[BlackJace]

NSMB is to blame. The 3D ones push the limits every time.

 

[Choc]

having finished NSMB2 already (JP) they are right with the DS/3DS games

 

[XANDER CAGE]

I don't agree we're there yet, but NSMB2 is pushing it. I thought they might have been on to something quirky and different with the focus on coins, but the focus on coins turned out be just...lots of coins. ~fin

I'll reserve judgement until we get NSMBU though. Ideally that would be the sequel/successor to NSMBW that takes the franchise forward in interesting ways, meanwhile NSMB2 is a cash grab. Hopefully, anywho.

The series desperately needs to shape up the roots though. The level design is consistently good, but everything else is pretty much Mario by the books.

literally!

eh?



eh?





eh?

 

[The M.O.B]

NSMB Wii was awesome, it looked good, co-op was amazing, and did new things, Great 2d mario game.

DS one was awful and haven't played the 3DS one yet.

 

[darkpaladinmfc]

Super Mario Bros 2 USA and Yoshi's Island aren't real Mario games. If you remove those 2 and put in SMB1 and the real SMB2 things would be different.

 

[Choc]

Guys aside from the secrets etc (which yes is good and all) you can finish NSMB2 in 4 hours.

 

[hatchx]

I'm not very interested in NSMB2. I don't even think I'll pick it up.


NSMBU, on the other hand, looks great. The environments so far are all gorgeous and have their own style. The Van Gogh level, in particular, looks awesome. If all of the levels have this type of originality, I predict a real winner.


I will also predict, that after NSMBU, we won't see a NSMB again. Whichever 2D Mario we get next will be different.

 

[bridegur]

The NSMB games have felt stale since the first one was released, but the EAD Tokyo games are a different story.

 

[MushroomSamba]

Innovation has run dry for the 2D Mario's, but I don't think that matters much to its main target audience, who basically just want a nostalgia rush. It pretty much succeeds in that purpose.

 

[jondabomb]

Unfortunately yes, but the 3d marios are still unique and only come out every couple of years

 

[vgmthebest]

It's a damn shame, too. Nintendo's really letting the quality slip on what ought to remain one of their flagship franchises. Between this and the digital-vs-physical pricing row on NSMB2, I'm not exactly happy with the direction Mario's heading in.

 

[Wuthering_Heights]

I have to agree.

NSMB2 looks good, but it just seems like such a lazy effort. Still, will be the first game I pick up whenever I get a 3DS, so I guess that says something!

 

[Deleted member 81567]

2D should just be buried for a few years, then reboot/remake the whole 2D aspect when the coast is clear.

 

[Randolph Freelander]

I really enjoyed New Super Mario Brothers on the DS. It was the reason I even bought the DS, to scratch that nostalgic itch for a side scrolling Mario (I really can't get into 3D platformers).

Having played it, I don't really have a need to play another, of course. I can always dig up NSMB should that itch ever come back. Between it and Mario Kart, that's really all my DS is used for anyway. The only other game I bought for it was Mortal Kombat, and I stopped playing that after a week.

 

[iammeiam]

A lot of this is going to depend on if we get more than one NSMB for the 3DS/Wii U. Releasing two visually similar games that don't diverge much from their predecessors in the span of months was probably a bad call, from a non-saturation standpoint.

I really felt like the coop in NSMBWii added a fairly distinct gameplay element that NSMBDS lacked, and it made the game feel fresh and different to me. The attempt at coining it up in NSMB2 apparently fails to distinguish itself, which is too bad. I think it's also the closest we've seen to a 'B Team' Mario title?

So it'll depend on how NSMBWU shakes out, I guess. NSMB2 has that annual cash-in feel, but I'm hoping the Wii U one offers more.

 

[SuperSonic1305]

You will buy it and you will like it.

 

[BlackJace]

So far, this thread seems to be in agreement about NSMB. Awesome.

 

[onQ123]

if it ain't broke don't try to fix it.

 

[qizah]

Although the styles have been the same, I feel like from NSMB to NSMBWii was a nice step up.

Also based on a few podcast's I've listened to, people who were down on NSMB2 are pretty positive on NSMBU, so we'll see if that remains true in a few months time.

I think it's obvious though why Nintendo is releasing two NSMB games. Both NSMB and NSMBWii are the best selling Mario titles on their respective platforms. It only makes sense to release NSMB2 and NSMBU to boost up sales for both the 3DS and Wii U. That being said, it doesn't grant it immunity from franchise fatigue, but stuff like Super Mario 3D Land has been absolutely stellar.

 

[Mikey Jr.]

He is right about the 2d ones.

Dunno, have they hit some sort of creative wall or something over there? Just add an extra powerup each new game and call it a day.

I would love for them to try a hand drawn style, like Rayman. I dunno, something new. These games are blending together.

 

[apana]

All the kids who play 2D Mario are in it for nostalgia. Nostalgia for games they have never played before.

 

[Penguin]

2D should just be buried for a few years, then reboot/remake the whole 2D aspect when the coast is clear.

I wouldn't do that.. I would just.. go back to another style of 2D game.. either a modern Super Mario Bros USA, Yoshi's Island or maybe give Wario a headliner platformer on the console.

 

[whitehawk]

The 'New Super Mario Bros' series is the only one that feels bland and 'factory made'. (And Super Mario 3DS). I'm sure the next real Mario game for the WiiU will be very different.

 

[Orayn]

I wouldn't do that.. I would just.. go back to another style of 2D game.. either a modern Super Mario Bros USA, Yoshi's Island or maybe give Wario a headliner platformer on the console.

SUPER WARIO BROS.

Make it happen, Nintendo.

if it ain't broke don't try to fix it.

If it ain't broke, don't produce tons of soulless duplicates.

 

[aceface]

They are still doing awesome stuff with the 3d Marios so I'm not too worried.

 

[vgmthebest]

You will buy it and you will like it.

LALALA, I can't hear you...oh dammit, who am I kidding...

 

[Meelow]

At least NSMBU has a completely different art style and is looking hopefully differernt.

 

[Derrick01]

I am no expert in the minor touches of 2D platformers since it's not a genre I particularly care for, but these NSMB games do all look and play the same to me. I don't understand why it got a free pass until only recently.

 

[Boney]

we were discussing it here

New Super Mario Bros. series and lack of variety in worlds

but eurogamer

 

[TheDarkKnight774]

its sadly getting to Zelda territory for me when they were really cranking them out a few years back with minimal changes.

In the past Nintendo did a good job of spacing out releases of the franchise and mixing it up just enough to be familiar but new. A tricky feat no doubt, but lately they don't even seem to be trying. You can get away with that to a certain extent if the games are relatively far apart, but when the 2D marios are flying at you with 1-2 a year the act starts to wear thin and its only a matter of time before people start to call them out on it.

 

[StickSoldier]

yeah I wish they could re-do the NSMB series. I definitely feel like they are being reserved with the 2D Mario games because they sell great.

Edit: Does anyone else think it might be Miyamoto causing them to all be so similar? I know he always has an eye on the Mario games and don't most games have to meet his standard before they are completed?

 

[Meelow]

its sadly getting to Zelda territory for me when they were really cranking them out a few years back with minimal changes.

In the past Nintendo did a good job of spacing out releases of the franchise and mixing it up just enough to be familiar but new. A tricky feat no doubt, but lately they don't even seem to be trying. You can get away with that to a certain extent if the games are relatively far apart, but when the 2D marios are flying at you with 1-2 a year the act starts to wear thin and its only a matter of time before people start to call them out on it.

After NSMBU I don't think we will be seeing a new 2D Mario for a long time.

 

[Dr. Feel Good]

Meanwhile however...

 

[markot]

Blame the morans who buy this up by the bucket load over the 3d marios whence forth the real innovation has innovated to.