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[Tulipanzo]

The people only counting SpiderMan MM (a spin-off sequel to a game that sold better than the last Halo btw) for PS5 are about as ridiculous as if you ignored Mario Odyssey because it came out a few months after the launch of the Switch.

Meanwhile we have MS showing us faked CGI trailers for 3/5 of their new first party announcements.

 

[Jack Peterson]

The reveal was terrible but at least they went in with the right intentions, focusing on games and game services rather than the nightmare of 2013 with all the online only stuff, TV focus, sports etc..

 

[Tulipanzo]

The reveal was terrible but at least they went in with the right intentions, focusing on games and game services rather than the nightmare of 2013 with all the online only stuff, TV focus, sports etc..

Talking about games is probably the lowest possible bar for a gaming showcase lol

 

[Jack Peterson]

Talking about games is probably the lowest possible bar for a gaming showcase lol

I agree, but people are saying Microsoft fucked this up worse than ever and it's not even close to the 2013 disaster..

 

[Hawking Radiation]

I guess we can finally discard the silly notion, "What does Sony have that can compete with a Halo launch on the Series X talk". It feels surreal that Halo has been made a mem for many.

Sony is going to curb stomp Ms this gen. I said it before and I'll say it again.

The momentum they have coming out of PS4 is batshit crazy. The social engagement numbers show that clearly.
All Sony needs to bury MS now is to launch their own Gamepass or turn PSNow into a Gamepass service and its lights out for MS.

 

[Tulipanzo]

I agree, but people are saying Microsoft fucked this up worse than ever and it's not even close to the 2013 disaster..

I disagree. Yes, TV TV TV was atrocious, but the X1 launch at least had exclusives and titles looking impressive.
While 2013 was atrocious, I feel that if you're looking for a next-gen console, MS has made an even weaker pitch.

 

[Dee_Dee]

I guess we can finally discard the silly notion, "What does Sony have that can compete with a Halo launch on the Series X talk". It feels surreal that Halo has been made a mem for many.

Hmm IMO Sony already answered that question with Spider-Man. Even with it being a side story, it is a side story to PS4s biggest exclusive.

 

[lame gag1990]

Neither have made a case. The lineups on both look ass and it's gonna take more than what we've seen to get me on board.

 

[Deputy Moonman]

I think as far as conferences goes Microsoft's was pretty bad. Mainly because it didn't generate the excitement they were hoping to get. But the knee-jerk reactions with people claiming Xbox is done are also a bit much. I think we all know there will be games, good games, on both consoles. It may take some time, meaning not at launch, but they will come. It also seems like MS might do more of these showcases before the end of the road, similar to how Nintendo does random directs. All it takes is one good showing to change a person's mind. So we'll see. 4-5 months for MS to get their heads out of their butts.

 

[Tulipanzo]

Neither have made a case. The lineups on both look ass and it's gonna take more than what we've seen to get me on board.

Sony had sequels to HZD, RC, and SpiderMan, three of their biggest releases this generation, DeS remake, GT7, all seemingly far enough along to launch in 2021. They have yet more things to announce. It'll be Switch level of a new game every other month.
I can understand not personally being excited, but Sony is clearly pushing ahead with several guaranteed hits out of the gate.

MS has Halo as a Service, Gunk, TMW, and Grounded. Everything else has barely started development.

 

[Kataploom]

Third parties will still look/run better on XSX, that plus XGP is what they aim for and I think they've done a pretty good job at selling that IMO.

The thing is that people expect to be sold on something that MS is really not trying to sell: traditional console + exclusives combo.

They are all about selling services (which MS as a whole is very strong at) and maximixing their player base availability, and it's a very strong strategy based on their last finantial report, but not what traditional gamer expect.

 

[ZehDon]

I disagree. Yes, TV TV TV was atrocious, but the X1 launch at least had exclusives and titles looking impressive.
While 2013 was atrocious, I feel that if you're looking for a next-gen console, MS has made an even weaker pitch.

If you really think a bad looking Halo and some CGI trailers matches the utter, unmitigated, unparalleled disaster that was the Xbone reveal and E3 build up, you've clearly forgotten what actually went down in 2013.
In 2013, Microsoft nearly killed the entire Xbox brand. Yesterday, they set back their new console launch with an underwhelming showing. Not even in the same realm, friend. Not even close.

 

[lame gag1990]

Sony had sequels to HZD, RC, and SpiderMan, three of their biggest releases this generation, DeS remake, GT7, all seemingly far enough along to launch in 2021. They have yet more things to announce. It'll be Switch level of a new game every other month.
I can understand not personally being excited, but Sony is clearly pushing ahead with several guaranteed hits out of the gate.

MS has Halo as a Service, Gunk, TMW, and Grounded. Everything else has barely started development.

Boring games aren't my kind of hits. Third party stuff is where it's at but that will come in time.

 

[aries_71]

In my case, I have faith on the Xbox brand due to MS software capabilities. True, the original Xbox One hardware was a total letdown due to their Kinnect obsession... but, they redeemed the disaster with the software backward compatibility program. It works so well, and allows me to play most of my 360 collection. Now that I have a very expensive digital-only collection, I think is more future proof with MS than with others.

 

[Schmick]

Too much doom and gloom that has no real justification. I find it hard to understand how people have already decided the future for a console that hasn't even been released yet. Perhaps there isn't a case for Xbox Series X just yet but there is certainly is a case for Xbox. Every game is shown at the reveal will be available on Game Pass. This is big and exciting news. To me that further cements the fact that Game Pass is a fantastic service set to continue to provide fantastic games (I was particularly interested in Halo, The Medium, Stalker 2, Forza). And lets not forget FS 2020, probably the most ambition title to feature on a game console to date and actually i think shows MS determination to provide exciting and innovative games.

Neither reveal gave me a real wow factor but i'm excited for both consoles and intend to get both.

 

[Tulipanzo]

Boring games aren't my kind of hits. Third party stuff is where it's at but that will come in time.

Shows how useful your prospective is when 3 sequels to 10M dollars sellers are "boring". Sony had also more and better third party support, but I guess it might not satisfy Your refined taste.

 

[lame gag1990]

Shows how useful your prospective is when 3 sequels to 10M dollars sellers are "boring". Sony had also more and better third party support, but I guess it might not satisfy Your refined taste.

My perspective is as useful as anyone else's. Yeah, the games we've seen, other than Ghostwire: Tokyo, look fucking boring. There's no interesting games being shown on either side. In time, we will see fun games but right now, it looks fucking boring.

 

[azertydu91]

Third parties will still look/run better on XSX, that plus XGP is what they aim for and I think they've done a pretty good job at selling that IMO.

The thing is that people expect to be sold on something that MS is really not trying to sell: traditional console + exclusives combo.

They are all about selling services (which MS as a whole is very strong at) and maximixing their player base availability, and it's a very strong strategy based on their last finantial report, but not what traditional gamer expect.

Maybe but it's a damn shame that first party are looking way better on ps5 ... Beside you don't know if third parties will be their best versions on xsx there hasn't been agames with framerate or resolution advantage yet on any console for third party.

 

[Tulipanzo]

If you really think a bad looking Halo and some CGI trailers matches the utter, unmitigated, unparalleled disaster that was the Xbone reveal and E3 build up, you've clearly forgotten what actually went down in 2013.
In 2013, Microsoft nearly killed the entire Xbox brand. Yesterday, they set back their new console launch with an underwhelming showing. Not even in the same realm, friend. Not even close.

The thing is a lot of talk and marketing is done outside these conferences, and for a long time after, via reactions, word-of-mouth, and other engagement.
X1 sales have been in constant decline since 2013, because most people buying the system had no awareness of the run-up to launch, but could see little reason to buy a system.

Don't get me wrong, their policies in 2013 were far worse, but now they're coming off an incredibly weak gen, and have a policy that guarantees disappointing releases for two years. Their marketing on power has no legs to stand on, and the system will likely be more expensive than X1 was at launch.
By comparison X1 was coming off the very popular 360, and quickly ditched their shitty policies and Kinect to achieve price parity with PS4.
If SeX ditched cross-gen today, we still wouldn't get anything next-gen until 2022.

It could go either way, but I wouldn't be surprised if the SeX sells less than X1 did in 2013.

 

[Tulipanzo]

My perspective is as useful as anyone else's. Yeah, the games we've seen, other than Ghostwire: Tokyo, look fucking boring. There's no interesting games being shown on either side. In time, we will see fun games but right now, it looks fucking boring.

Your prospective is kind of useless, because you're hell-bent on saying "both sides suck".
You should learn how to separate your subjective opinion from a fair assessment.
For example, I was pretty fond of The Gunk, but it'd be ridiculous to try and say that a massively exciting game for most.

 

[Kataploom]

Maybe but it's a damn shame that first party are looking way better on ps5 ... Beside you don't know if third parties will be their best versions on xsx there hasn't been agames with framerate or resolution advantage yet on any console for third party.

You're right, we don't know, but if they do, I think it would be a very well balanced gen in terms of competitivity from every part, since none of the three will be eating each other necesarily

 

[lame gag1990]

Your prospective is kind of useless, because you're hell-bent on saying "both sides suck".
You should learn how to separate your subjective opinion from a fair assessment.
For example, I was pretty fond of The Gunk, but it'd be ridiculous to try and say that a massively exciting game for most.

It is a fair assesment. Nothing made me say "I'm getting a new console for that game". Fuck, I wouldn't even buy them if they were current gen. I have Tetris Effect already and again Ghostwire is the only one that made me think "That looks different, it looks interesting". The rest looked boring. What's not fair about that? And we don't have to talk for most people otherwise Fortnite would be the best game this gen. This is my view, my opinion and I can say whatever I like. Launch games for both fucking blow.

 

[azertydu91]

You're right, we don't know, but if they do, I think it would be a very well balanced gen in terms of competitivity from every part, since none of the three will be eating each other necesarily

Yep so best multiplat doesn't really qualify ... as for exclusives visually as of now Sony is far above Xbox even moreso considering that we haven't seen anything running on a sxs which is probably not a good sign.

 

[Panajev2001a]

If you really think a bad looking Halo and some CGI trailers matches the utter, unmitigated, unparalleled disaster that was the Xbone reveal and E3 build up, you've clearly forgotten what actually went down in 2013.
In 2013, Microsoft nearly killed the entire Xbox brand. Yesterday, they set back their new console launch with an underwhelming showing. Not even in the same realm, friend. Not even close.

It is two shows they over hyped and under delivered in a row all while they kept talking a super tough bombastic game to keep attention focused on them. Tons of articles and interview covering its HW, its strength, etc... not only that, but the shade they try to throw on competitors to justify their current internal need for a two years cross generation period and then backpedaling it at the sign of the first small storm.

It is the messaging that is confusing, unnerving, and for them undermining. It is like their marketing campaign is trying to give ammo to this that say their execs are full of crap when they talk and to wait for when they either back pedal it or when the clarify what seemed good into something a lot less positive or something which was also the big PR problem in that stage: they try to please every possible audience (say what they think that audience wants to hear) in every speech and they have tons of speeches / always trying to get attention and press focus and at some point they inevitably put their own foot in their mouth.

This has led to some true gems too...(“console war retrorockets is bad” -> “spend time feeding it and going on TimCloudXdog and the like podcasts”, “gatekeeping exclusive software is bad” -> “we are buying more studios and making them exclusives”, “generation exclusives are anti consumers” -> “oh only the first year or so is cross generation unless well people are seeing through it, that we were just not ready with new software and are bringing delayed Xbox One software to XSX instead,, and/or are upset so uhm maybe some of the cross generation games we can make the XSX exclusives... perhaps... maybe... tell us what you want us to say and we will say it and maybe even do it... perhaps... but saying we will do it is almost the same right?”)

 

[Tulipanzo]

It is a fair assesment. Nothing made me say "I'm getting a new console for that game". Fuck, I wouldn't even buy them if they were current gen. I have Tetris Effect already and again Ghostwire is the only one that made me think "That looks different, it looks interesting". The rest looked boring. What's not fair about that? And we don't have to talk for most people otherwise Fortnite would be the best game this gen. This is my view, my opinion and I can say whatever I like. Launch games for both fucking blow.

See, this is much better because you acknowledge this is what you felt.
Your og post was rather more fuzzy, but at this point I'm just arguing semantics lol.

I think Sony has a line-up that's very exciting for most, and looks about as packed as the Switch's in 2017.

 

[ZehDon]

The thing is a lot of talk and marketing is done outside these conferences, and for a long time after, via reactions, word-of-mouth, and other engagement.
X1 sales have been in constant decline since 2013, because most people buying the system had no awareness of the run-up to launch, but could see little reason to buy a system.

Don't get me wrong, their policies in 2013 were far worse, but now they're coming off an incredibly weak gen, and have a policy that guarantees disappointing releases for two years. Their marketing on power has no legs to stand on, and the system will likely be more expensive than X1 was at launch.
By comparison X1 was coming off the very popular 360, and quickly ditched their shitty policies and Kinect to achieve price parity with PS4.
If SeX ditched cross-gen today, we still wouldn't get anything next-gen until 2022.

It could go either way, but I wouldn't be surprised if the SeX sells less than X1 did in 2013.

I think you've missed what Microsoft are doing this generation. Microsoft isn't focused on XSX sales. If that wasn't clear after yesterday, then I'm not sure what to tell you. Microsoft lost the console war to Sony this generation. They're done with that fight. They've decided to, wisely, change the rules and fight a different war this time around. Xbox is no longer just a box - it's the platform. They're focused on their platform - Gamepass, namely - with XSX being just one access point for that platform.
You're talking about console sales like it's the SNES era, while Microsoft is talking about playing next-gen first party titles on your phone. Yesterday, Microsoft bolstered the Gamepass platform at the cost of under-selling the Series X hardware. In 2013, the entire gaming community rose up and revolted against Microsoft and Xbox, and it hurt them so badly, the management in charge of the company left, they gutted every policy they made, and they literally had to invent an entirely new game delivery business model to stay in the industry.
If you think a bad looking Halo game and some CGI trailers compares to 2013, you don't remember what actually happened in 2013. I think Halo Infinite looked as bad as everyone else - but Microsoft and Xbox will be just fine.

 

[Tulipanzo]

I think you've missed what Microsoft are doing this generation. Microsoft isn't focused on XSX sales. If that wasn't clear after yesterday, then I'm not sure what to tell you. Microsoft lost the console war to Sony this generation. They're done with that fight. They've decided to, wisely, change the rules and fight a different war this time around. Xbox is no longer just a box - it's the platform. They're focused on their platform - Gamepass, namely - with XSX being just one access point for that platform.
You're talking about console sales like it's the SNES era, while Microsoft is talking about playing next-gen first party titles on your phone. Yesterday, Microsoft bolstered the Gamepass platform at the cost of under-selling the Series X hardware. In 2013, the entire gaming community rose up and revolted against Microsoft and Xbox, and it hurt them so badly, the management in charge of the company left, they gutted every policy they made, and they literally had to invent an entirely new game delivery business model to stay in the industry.
If you think a bad looking Halo game and some CGI trailers compares to 2013, you don't remember what actually happened in 2013. I think Halo Infinite looked as bad as everyone else - but Microsoft and Xbox will be just fine.

Selling XBox as a platform would work a lot better if they had shown any sign of growth whatsoever since introducing GP.

Profitability is great and all, but like most subscription service GP is a money sink, and MS is still mostly reliant on the 30% they make off every game sold, which directly relates to hardware sales.

 

[ZehDon]

Selling XBox as a platform would work a lot better if they had shown any sign of growth whatsoever since introducing GP.

Profitability is great and all, but like most subscription service GP is a money sink, and MS is still mostly reliant on the 30% they make off every game sold, which directly relates to hardware sales.

I’m sorry, but what? You think GP is a “money sink”? They’ve already talked about how they make money off of it. Developers have talked about how beneficial GP is and was for them and their game. You’re making baseless assumptions that Microsoft is losing money on Gamepass, and are MUST sell XSXs to be profitable, when everyone and everything we’ve seen proves otherwise.
What Spencer is doing with Xbox is called diversification: break the dependence on selling hardware to make money. GP is that diversification. It means even if they sell 10 times LESS Xboxes than PlayStation, they came make just as much money.
It’s a good thing - because it means Sony has competition and we have options even if Xbox loses the hardware war, which I think they will.

 

[Hezekiah]

I’m sorry, but what? You think GP is a “money sink”? They’ve already talked about how they make money off of it. Developers have talked about how beneficial GP is and was for them and their game. You’re making baseless assumptions that Microsoft is losing money on Gamepass, and are MUST sell XSXs to be profitable, when everyone and everything we’ve seen proves otherwise.
What Spencer is doing with Xbox is called diversification: break the dependence on selling hardware to make money. GP is that diversification. It means even if they sell 10 times LESS Xboxes than PlayStation, they came make just as much money.
It’s a good thing - because it means Sony has competition and we have options even if Xbox loses the hardware war, which I think they will.

Yeah they've talked about, but not shown the financials. What does that tell you? You can't give away a service like GamePass for $1 or $3 a month to so many people and not be bleeding a lot of money.

 

[ZehDon]

Yeah they've talked about, but not shown the financials. What does that tell you? You can't give away a service like GamePass for $1 or $3 a month to so many people and not be bleeding a lot of money.

Do you think one of the largest publicly traded, capitalist companies on Earth, worth hundreds of billions of dollars, got there by failing basic maths? Why are you so concerned about Microsoft’s bottom line that you’re willing to think less of their devices and services because they offer TOO much value?

 

[Tulipanzo]

I’m sorry, but what? You think GP is a “money sink”? They’ve already talked about how they make money off of it. Developers have talked about how beneficial GP is and was for them and their game. You’re making baseless assumptions that Microsoft is losing money on Gamepass, and are MUST sell XSXs to be profitable, when everyone and everything we’ve seen proves otherwise.
What Spencer is doing with Xbox is called diversification: break the dependence on selling hardware to make money. GP is that diversification. It means even if they sell 10 times LESS Xboxes than PlayStation, they came make just as much money.
It’s a good thing - because it means Sony has competition and we have options even if Xbox loses the hardware war, which I think they will.

They haven't, the only hard data we have is 10M subscribers. The most I've found is Phil Spencer saying it's "sustainable".
In fact, their revenue has shown heavy decline in recent years.

Even if it were profitable, the overwhelming majority of profits still comes from that 30%, which is tied to hardware.

 

[base]

SONY still hasn’t sold me on the PS5 either. The launch lineup is laughable.

As per usual, it is better to wait a couple of months. More games will be out.

Thanks. Less problem with getting ps5.

 

[Strider Highwind]

Neither company has made the case for why I should be ready to buy on day one.

 

[Hezekiah]

Do you think one of the largest publicly traded, capitalist companies on Earth, worth hundreds of billions of dollars, got there by failing basic maths? Why are you so concerned about Microsoft’s bottom line that you’re willing to think less of their devices and services because they offer TOO much value?

You're questioning whether GamePass is a money sink, and I'm answering you.

A subscription service like GamePass is a loss leader. Whether it is sustainable as things stand is up for question. What we do know is that Microsoft refuses to release the financials for the service and that is telling. Not difficult to understand, and not a reason to get so defensive.

 

[mortal]

Because the goal is to sell Game Pass subs not consoles. Maybe one day people will realize this.

Riiiight, that's why they've made:

XB1
XB1 S
XB1 X
XB SX
XB SS (Lockhart)

Because they're not in the business of selling consoles, apparently...

 

[thismeinteil]

Bugsnax, Goodbye Volcano high and Hitman should have been cut... (hitman because it had nothing to show really)

It severely disrupted the pacing and momentum.

Disagree. Sony was showing that they have something for everyone, whether high quality AAA or small indie games. And they did so while showing off actual gameplay and in-game cutscenes running on actual PS5 HW.

This was not the show for MS to try to prove they can be just as diverse. That should have been done in May. This was supposed to be their mic drop to Sony. Instead, we got a poor showing of their biggest franchise, which doesn't bode well for games they aren't focused on. Most of everything else was still just CG trailers or in-engine, not in-game. And it turns out that what we saw might STILL NOT be running on actual Series X HW just 4 months from launch. WTF, MS?!

Not only does this seem to confirm rumors that Sony, somehow, caught MS with their pants down, in terms of HW development, but appears Sony was the only one who learned from MS's mistake in May.

 

[Swift Hunta]

Riiiight, that's why they've made:

XB1
XB1 S
XB1 X
XB SX
XB SS (Lockhart)

Because they're not in the business of selling consoles, apparently...

Business plans can change you know right?

 

[mortal]

Business plans can change you know right?

What's changed exactly? They've never not been trying to sell hardware lol

 

[Swift Hunta]

What's changed exactly? They've never not been trying to sell hardware lol

whats changed?? Hahahaha. Not worth my time

 

[Atrus]

Its a longstanding marketing problem with Microsoft.

2013: TV, TV, TV!
2016: PC, PC, PC!
2020: GamePass, GamePass, GamePass!

They need to put their console and the games for that console first and foremost. A SeriesX is not essential for GamePass and if that's all they're concerned about then why bother with a console? Just put all of that money behind first-party games, licenses and then burn cash like Netflix for a GaaS platform.

So the disappointment writ large has more to do with the marketing decision to constantly focus away from their premiere console. You can't emphasize the power dominance of the seriesX, have consumers clamour to see it, and then tell everyone to wait a couple years as the current focus is on crossgen and gamepass.

 

[mortal]

whats changed?? Hahahaha. Not worth my time

Oookay...

 

[Knitted Knight]

The reveal was terrible but at least they went in with the right intentions, focusing on games and game services rather than the nightmare of 2013 with all the online only stuff, TV focus, sports etc..

I agree, but people are saying Microsoft fucked this up worse than ever and it's not even close to the 2013 disaster..

It's just a different type of fuck up Lmao....

Games? What Games?

Xbox One launched with Dead Rising 3, Sunset Overdrive, Titanfall, Killer Instinct, Ryse Son of Rome, Forza 5 etc all at launch or first year launch window. What we saw 2 days ago was a bunch of CGI trailers for concepts of games to be delivered in 2022/2023/2024 and a bastard GaaS Halo.

The Xbox Series X under Phil is launching with a 60-meta Halo Infinite the way it's looks. Even if it were to reach Destiny level quality in 4 months on launch day (highly doubful) the game will still get trashed by reviewers - just look at Destiny 1/2 review scores.

This is worse - since they already lost 40 million gamers. The pool gets even smaller - the room for error smaller.

 

[truth411]

I disagree and i think they made a pretty good case: buy a PS5

 

[MayauMiao]

All Microsoft had to do was just to show us Halo Infinite running on actual XSeX hardware, will all the bells & whistles that is only possible on their new console.

Instead we get is an underwhelming looking game that make people questions whether XSeX is an actual next gen console.