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[Neuromancer]

Great article, I recommend reading the whole thing. A few excerpts:

It wasn't until early 2009, shortly before Project Natal hit the stage at E3, that Kinect's capabilities had solidified enough for game development to proceed. "The studio had just completed its restructure at that point," says [Ex-Rare designer and current Playtonic studio director Gavin] Price. "We'd just shipped Viva Pinata: Trouble In Paradise and Banjo: Nuts 'n' Bolts, and I remember some new projects were prototyped after those two releases, but everything kind of got pushed to one side. We were told that the studio would focus on the Xbox Live Avatars business, Kinect Sports, and a kind of Kinect health and fitness game, I think it was."

Kinect Sports was originally conceived as a more complex sim, Sports Star, built around the idea of being a pro athlete, with gesture controls that were supposedly beyond anything available on the Wii. "But I remember at some point, the feedback came down from Don Mattrick I believe, and it was: 'No, just give us Wii Sports with Kinect.' So internally, yeah, Kinect was very much a reaction to the Wii's success, the fact that they sold millions and millions and always sold out every Christmas."

The more Rare got to grips with Kinect, however, the more it became conscious of the sensor's limitations. "We were literally putting kitchen foil from supermarkets over windows, to get the best lighting conditions possible. It was an exciting time because it was all new, and everyone wanted to be the next one figuring something cool out. But it was also a really frustrating, pull-your-hair-out time.

"Nothing was happening on screen, and you were like 'Is it me? Is it the camera? Is it the lighting in this room? Am I wearing the wrong clothes?' It was failing. And it wasn't like you were pressing a button on a pad and nothing was happening - you just didn't know what was going wrong. It was really frustrating early on."

Ideas for brand new games were thrown around internally, but Rare's management and Microsoft elected to double-down on the emerging Kinect Sports series instead. "I think because we'd not made a massive hit for Microsoft like we had before they bought us, people at Rare and Microsoft saw this as a chance for Rare to do something big and own an audience, a key part of Microsoft's business. But the result was we couldn't work on the kinds of game we'd traditionally worked on, because there was such pressure to deliver a fantastic Kinect game, to inspire other developers.

"To remove all risk we knocked all of the teams on the head, and everyone kind of chipped in and joined the Kinect Sports team. I think that was the biggest team we've ever had on a title in Rare's history, and Kinect Sports: Season Two eclipsed that, even taking into account the fact that Big Park helped on two of the sports for Season Two."

Among the shelved projects were a number of Kinect titles, ranging from the Kinect equivalent of Wii Fit to a few quirky originals. "I was working on an adventure-style game where you explore a haunted house, using Grabbed By The Ghoulies background assets," Price continues. "We had junction points, you could select new routes, and you'd come across physical puzzles. It was the Kinect equivalent of the Professor Layton series, where instead of mental puzzles you'd complete challenges which would require all sorts of bodily movements.

"One was that you could see your character standing in a pit of rats, and one rat had the key to the exit, so you were trying to stamp on all these rats and get the one with the key."

Among the final projects Gavin Price worked on at Rare was a whimsical "conflict-resolution game", roughly titled "Kinect-Off", in which players race to perform a random action such as 'jump, then touch the floor' while their Avatars do battle on-screen. Thrown together for laughs during a gamejam, the title was also, in its way, an earnest celebration of the second generation Kinect's finesse - unchecked, as so many Kinect games are, by the expectations of genres that have coalesced around controllers or mouse-and-keyboard. Now-departed Microsoft Studios vice-president Phil Harrison was apparently a fan.

"You could use it to show off all the things Kinect could do, that nobody had tried out at that point in time. Such as 'hold your hands exactly 18 and a half inches apart'," Price recalls. "All these things Kinect doesn't get asked to do in other games. 'Blink.' 'Blow me a kiss.' You could even use a pad alongside it, like 'press A on your controller', and the best thing to do there would be to grab your mate's controller and hurl it across the room. I remember sometimes the text would come up really small, so you'd have to get in close to read it. And the command would be 'move backwards'. It could headf**k you like that. It was really fun but alas, it's never seen the light of day."

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2015-12-16-rare-kinect-rise-and-fall

 

[Hugstable]

That 3rd quote makes me really sad. We missed alot of potential interesting Rare games due to being put to work on Kinect Sports and other Kinect related things. I'm sure it did well financially during the 360 gen, but makes me wonder just what Rare would have been creating if they hadn't been working on that. Besides being a fan of alot of Rares old content, I also enjoyed some of their early work with Microsoft in Ghoulies and Kameo. Though I'm sure that Rare of today is much different. Will be keeping an eye on the new game they are making though, Pirates seem fun, but it seemed like an MMO to me

 

[Saint of Killers]

On what day was the rise? From what I recall it stumbled and died.

That last game sounded like a laugh. Like a even more physical WarioWare or Frobisher Says.

 

[Nephtes]

I thought Kinect could have had a lot of potential for immersion for the couch gamer ...

Survey after survey from Microsoft during the 360 era asked me what I wanted from Kinect to make me buy one and I kept telling them, "I want a hardcore gaming experience I can have on my couch. I'm active, I'm in shape. I run 10Ks and go to the gym, I don't need your game system to make me move, I want it to supplement my couch gaming experience."

But they never really took my advice.

Granted all I ever came up with was: In Halo, make a grenade throwing hand gesture to throw a grenade.

Yeah, it was doomed.
I still use Kinect 2.0 for voice commands on my XOne though.

What would it take to get me to buy a Kinect? Bundle it with your launch console. :/

 

[Zedox]

That 3rd quote makes me really sad. We missed alot of potential interesting Rare games due to being put to work on Kinect Sports and other Kinect related things. I'm sure it did well financially during the 360 gen, but makes me wonder just what Rare would have been creating if they hadn't been working on that. Besides being a fan of alot of Rares old content, I also enjoyed some of their early work with Microsoft in Ghoulies and Kameo. Though I'm sure that Rare of today is much different. Will be keeping an eye on the new game they are making though, Pirates seem fun, but it seemed like an MMO to me

What makes me sad is that they didn't even have creative freedom WITHIN Kinect...and they had to basically make a Wii Sports clone. Don Mattrick really f'd us. Rare would have had some interesting games come along with Kinect. Hopefully when MS opens the store, 3rd party devs will pick up the slack.

 

[Alx]

What makes me sad is that they didn't even have creative freedom WITHIN Kinect...and they had to basically make a Wii Sports clone. Don Mattrick really f'd us. Rare would have had some interesting games come along with Kinect. Hopefully when MS opens the store, 3rd party devs will pick up the slack.

Er Mattrick isn't the sole responsible, according to the article it was Rare management that decided to go all in on Kinect.

 

[JaggedSac]

On what day was the rise? From what I recall it stumbled and died.

That last game sounded like a laugh. Like a even more physical WarioWare or Frobisher Says.

It was quite successful as far as hardware sales go and likely gave the 360 a b12 shot for a couple holiday seasons. Pretty much garbage device for games outside of Dance Central though.

 

[Superfrog]

OP left out one of the most interesting parts (on Microsoft allegedly "killing" the old Rare):

Microsoft is commonly blamed for Rare's transformation into a so-called "casual" studio, but Price feels this is a step too far. "Phil Spencer taking the mantle of Xbox is one of the best things that could have happened for Rare," he comments. "Because he's always said to people at Rare [as general manager of Microsoft Studios], 'Do what you want to do and we'll back you,' and he's always stayed true to his word in that regard. It was people in Rare's management at the time who said: 'Well, Kinect is a great opportunity for the studio - go all in on it.' So when executives at Microsoft see that the management team are passionate about doing that, they back them. Microsoft to their credit did that, and perhaps the story online isn't quite reflective of the truth.

 

[Tyreese Victoria]

Rare were a workhouse, perhaps the only developer in the industry that could successfully develop across so many different genres, over so many different platforms. Across five years (1996-2000), their moderately sized team developed:

Killer Instinct Gold
Blast Corps
GoldenEye 007
Donkey Kong Land
Diddy Kong Racing
Banjo-Kazooie
Conker's Pocket Tales
Jet Force Gemini
Donkey Kong 64
Mickey's Racing Adventure Racing
Donkey Kong GB: Dinky Kong & Dixie Kong
Perfect Dark N64 & GBC
Donkey Kong Country
Mickey's Speedway USA
Banjo-Tooie

Platformers, adventure games, action games, first & third person shooters, fighting games, racing games - all in a five year period. And what does management do? Take them off games like Viva Pinata (top 5 last generation) and force them to exclusively make Kinect games.

A complete utter shambles.

 

[d58e7]

Er Mattrick isn't the sole responsible, according to the article it was Rare management that decided to go all in on Kinect.

He was still in charge of them. When someone higher up tells you to jump you ask how high and in this case off what clff.

It's sad that they attempted creative kinect titles only to be told to make it more generic. Reading the description of the last title it would of probably ended up being a big party game if it was ever released.

 

[CrunchyFrog]

So in other words everything we pretty much knew or guessed. So glad Price and some of the other talent managed to get themselves free.

 

[Zombie James]

...the feedback came down from Don Mattrick I believe, and it was: 'No, just give us Wii Sports with Kinect.'

I'm so glad that era of gaming is dead.

 

[dreamcastmaster]

I thought Kinect could have had a lot of potential for immersion for the couch gamer ...

Survey after survey from Microsoft during the 360 era asked me what I wanted from Kinect to make me buy one and I kept telling them, "I want a hardcore gaming experience I can have on my couch. I'm active, I'm in shape. I run 10Ks and go to the gym, I don't need your game system to make me move, I want it to supplement my couch gaming experience."

But they never really took my advice.

:/

There you have it, if only Microsoft has listened to you. I really hope you did not write that with any kind of seriousness.

 

[Scanna]

I'm so glad that era of gaming is dead.

Why? If you criticize kinect and the mattrick era fine, I'm with you, but this was a good idea... with the limitations of the hardware would you have loved an ultra realistic Kinect Sports instead?
Btw, Kinect Sports and Wii Sports gave me so many happy memories, it's unfair to treat them like this, imo.

 

[Alx]

I'm so glad that era of gaming is dead.

"Wii Sport with kinect" was perfect, though. They tried to make a more competitive experience with Kinect Sport Rivals, and it wasn't half as fun as the original.

 

[oti]

On what day was the rise?

Oprah.

 

[Scanna]

"Wii Sport with kinect" was perfect, though. They tried to make a more competitive experience with Kinect Sport Rivals, and it wasn't half as fun as the original.

Yep, I agree.

In any case, this was an extremely interesting read from Eurogamer, congrats (even if the layout is kinda boring)

 

[DeathoftheEndless]

OP highlighted all of the "Microsoft killed Rare" quotes lol.

The Kinect was a big success, even if it wasn't a long-lasting one.

 

[SJRB]

More like "Ryse", am I right???

Anyway, Kinect was such a hilariously bad idea I still cannot comprehend how a) anyone thought this was a good idea in the first place, and b) they actually went and used it. Mandatory at the start, no less.

Often poorly implemented, slow, cumbersome, counterintuitive. Bizarre.

 

[meanspartan]

I knew all those quotes about Rare being able to do whatever they want were complete horseshit.

 

[ninjablade]

I'm so glad that era of gaming is dead.

Me and you, both.

 

[Hugstable]

OP highlighted all of the "Microsoft killed Rare" quotes lol.

The Kinect was a big success, even if it wasn't a long-lasting one.

lol I'm just now realizing it. Read the actual article >_>

I knew all those quotes about Rare being able to do whatever they want were complete horseshit.

Microsoft is commonly blamed for Rare's transformation into a so-called "casual" studio, but Price feels this is a step too far. "Phil Spencer taking the mantle of Xbox is one of the best things that could have happened for Rare," he comments. "Because he's always said to people at Rare [as general manager of Microsoft Studios], 'Do what you want to do and we'll back you,' and he's always stayed true to his word in that regard. It was people in Rare's management at the time who said: 'Well, Kinect is a great opportunity for the studio - go all in on it.' So when executives at Microsoft see that the management team are passionate about doing that, they back them. Microsoft to their credit did that, and perhaps the story online isn't quite reflective of the truth.

 

[Warxard]

OP left out one of the most interesting parts (on Microsoft allegedly "killing" the old Rare):

Well, that seems a bit comforting.

I knew all those quotes about Rare being able to do whatever they want were complete horseshit.

lol

 

[Scanna]

I knew all those quotes about Rare being able to do whatever they want were complete horseshit.

Isn't this article confirming this pretty much?

 

[Matrix XII]

I'm so glad that era of gaming is dead.

Couldn't agree more with that sentiment.

We are seemingly past that dark time in gaming.

 

[Huevos de Oro]

Mattrick...

Well what's done is done. NOW, time to get cracking on a Viva Pinata One game Rare alright? How does that sound?

Huh? Huh?

;___;

 

[RowdyReverb]

I can see why they went towards Kinect. It was poised to sell tons of units on the back of the Wii's motion control popularity (which it did), and Rare has a reputation as a very creative studio that would seem best able to harness a new game control modality. I'm sure it irked some of the staff and their fans, but it really was too big of an opportunity for the studio to pass up.
That fad has passed though, and I'm glad they are able to return to more traditional games.

More like "Ryse", am I right???

Anyway, Kinect was such a hilariously bad idea I still cannot comprehend how a) anyone thought this was a good idea in the first place, and b) they actually went and used it. Mandatory at the start, no less.

Often poorly implemented, slow, cumbersome, counterintuitive. Bizarre.

Do you remember how insanely popular the Wii was? Kinect was specifically designed to ride that wave, which it did with great success.

I knew all those quotes about Rare being able to do whatever they want were complete horseshit.

The management at Rare pushed for Kinect according to the article. The device had a lot of potential and Rare was really the best studio for the job. I think their only mistake was not bailing on Kinect in 2013 after the motion control fad died.

 

[oni-link]

Couldn't agree more with that sentiment.

We are seemingly past that dark time in gaming.

I think early VR could be just as bad

 

[Salty Hippo]

Rare's internal management, huh. And who was in charge after the Stampers left just before the studio started to focus on Kinect? Oh that's right, Scott Henson, an exec that got pulled from inside Microsoft who was very tight with Don Mattrick.

Bu-but it wasn't Microsoft's fault!

 

[Nephtes]

There you have it, if only Microsoft has listened to you. I really hope you did not write that with any kind of seriousness.

Well when you take the rest of my quote into account, I explained how I'm not sure they could have made a meaningful hardcore couch experience with Kinect. There just wasn't much you could do with it for a traditional hardcore game meant to be played from a couch.

Here's the takeaway: for Kinect to have resonated with the traditional gamer audience, it needed to provide an improved experience or further immersion for the games that audience gravitates to.

So yes, I stand by my original assertion, if Microsoft had made a must play hardcore game for Kinect (assuming it was actually possible from a technical standpoint), Kinect would not be looked at as a joke by us today.

But you know, hey chopping out quotes and responding to them without the entire context of the quote is the in thing. So I understand.

 

[Synth]

The most regrettable thing about Kinect v2 imo, is that it died before universal apps with Windows 10 had a chance to become a thing. There are a ton of fun mobile apps that could have used the Kinect in place of touchscreen swiping (something like Sonic Dash could have been a ton of fun), in the way that Fruit Ninja Kinect did... now many of these games won't have a control system that makes porting them viable.

Platformers, adventure games, action games, first & third person shooters, fighting games, racing games - all in a five year period. And what does management do? Take them off games like Viva Pinata (top 5 last generation) and force them to exclusively make Kinect games.

To be fair, Kinect Sports sold 9 million (more than pretty much anything else they ever created), whilst a couple more Viva Pinata's would have probably doomed the studio entirely. Rare's biggest issue under MS was always one of audience. The Xbox audience were simply not looking for Nintendo-esque games in general, and that was what Rare specialised in. Had Kameo and Viva Pinata been released on Nintendo platform, nobody would be placing a pre and post line between them and Rare's other offerings... but on Xbox there was a constant perception of "Rare's dead" with every title they created, long before the Kinect was even a thing... it just changed to "Kinect killed Rare" (even as they were still doing what they often did, created an alternative take on a huge current Nintendo experience), with everyone acting as though their previous core games were received with open arms at the time. If they were, then Kinect Sports may not have happened... it was basically the studio trying to prove their worth... and for a moment, they had succeeded.

 

[DagnastyEp]

Really interesting article, thanks for sharing.

A big bet was made on Kinect, then an even bigger one on Kinect 2, seemingly based first on the (commercial) success of the Wii, then on the (commercial) success of the Kinect (v1) itself. Kinect really did sell quite a lot of units, and for awhile people were blindly buying whatever software was available for it, MS made a bet to chase the casual market (with Xbox One and Kinect 2), figuring that the core gamers would still be there regardless of what they did (due to the success of the 360 in general).

I bought a Kinect about 6 months after it launched. I don't regret it, though I quickly realized the limitations, and where this kind of gaming would lead. It did have a few bright spots, Dance Central and it's sequels are legitimately awesome games, and I used voice controls daily.

I didn't want to play motion games, and neither did core gamers. When Xbox One was announced with Kinect 2 as a pack in, I was disappointed in their overall approach to Xbox One, built around media and Kinect, compared with the approach Sony was taking. But (at the time) I was optimistic that developers would come up with some new and interesting ways of mixing voice/motion gaming together with traditional controller play (based on being please with Kinect v1 Skyrim and ME3 implementations). But even with the unit being packed it, devs didn't care.

MS and Xbox got a serious wake up call, and they've been making great moves since Spencer took over. It's too late to catch Sony this gen, their momentum is staggering, but my hope is this learning will have a positive influence on their next console.

 

[The Flash]

OP left out one of the most interesting parts (on Microsoft allegedly "killing" the old Rare):

The Plot Thickens

 

[Leflus]

Rare's internal management, huh. And who was in charge after the Stampers left just before the studio started to focus on Kinect? Oh that's right, Scott Henson, an exec that got pulled from inside Microsoft who was very tight with Don Mattrick.

Bu-but it wasn't Microsoft's fault!

Scott Henson became the studio head of Rare in October 2010.

 

[Crayon]

Wow, illuminating article.

 

[LordBaztion]

Actually that looked like a great horizon for kinect and Rare, by that time they were bigger than ever and the X1 kinect could bring back the incomplete ideas of the 360 era. Sadly competition didn't make it possible. I wish, with the creative indie boom, more developers were interested in developing for kinect like that Profesor Layton Kinect which sound fun.

I still think there is a market for Kinect but not with a $300+ console.

 

[Zvonimir Boban]

Among the shelved projects were a number of Kinect titles, ranging from the Kinect equivalent of Wii Fit to a few quirky originals. "I was working on an adventure-style game where you explore a haunted house, using Grabbed By The Ghoulies background assets," Price continues. "We had junction points, you could select new routes, and you'd come across physical puzzles. It was the Kinect equivalent of the Professor Layton series, where instead of mental puzzles you'd complete challenges which would require all sorts of bodily movements.

I would kinda like to play something like this with the improved Xbone Kinect. Does that make me a bad person?

 

[Alx]

but on Xbox there was a constant perception of "Rare's dead" with every title they created, long before the Kinect was even a thing... it just changed to "Kinect killed Rare" (even as they were still doing what they often did, created an alternative take on a huge current Nintendo experience), with everyone acting as though their previous core games were received with open arms at the time.

Eh, that's very true in retrospect. I remember people already claiming MS had bought an empty shell with Rare, and that all the talent had left already, and that was in 2002. You have to wonder if there was anybody left for kinect to kill ten years later.

I wish, with the creative indie boom, more developers were interested in developing for kinect like that Profesor Layton Kinect which sound fun.

It would be nice if MS made it easier for indies to release all kinds of software for the X1, including some supporting kinect. I had some hopes with the switch to windows10 and the push for universal apps, but right now the console aspect of it isn't very clear unfortunately, and MS is giving mixed messages regarding to kinect support.

 

[AgentP]

I just bought a Kinect!

 

[blakep267]

On what day was the rise? From what I recall it stumbled and died.

That last game sounded like a laugh. Like a even more physical WarioWare or Frobisher Says.

The Kinect actually sold a lot on the 360 and Kinect sports also sold a bunch and it provided a bit of a boost to the console in the later years

 

[PanicFreak]

Eh, that's very true in retrospect. I remember people already claiming MS had bought an empty shell with Rare, and that all the talent had left already, and that was in 2002. You have to wonder if there was anybody left for kinect to kill ten years later.

All the talent is at Playtronic, haven't you heard?

 

[Sponge]

Rare's internal management, huh. And who was in charge after the Stampers left just before the studio started to focus on Kinect? Oh that's right, Scott Henson, an exec that got pulled from inside Microsoft who was very tight with Don Mattrick.

Bu-but it wasn't Microsoft's fault!

This. I've read too many articles trying to spin the story around that it wasn't Microsoft's fault.

 

[cakely]

Great article, I recommend reading the whole thing. A few excerpts:
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2015-12-16-rare-kinect-rise-and-fall

Kinect Sports was originally conceived as a more complex sim, Sports Star, built around the idea of being a pro athlete, with gesture controls that were supposedly beyond anything available on the Wii. "But I remember at some point, the feedback came down from Don Mattrick I believe, and it was: 'No, just give us Wii Sports with Kinect.' So internally, yeah, Kinect was very much a reaction to the Wii's success, the fact that they sold millions and millions and always sold out every Christmas."

Well, there it is. There's the reason Xbox One was shipped with a mandatory Kinect and had a $500 price tag: they were still trying to get a piece of the Wii waggle market

 

[SwolBro]

they should have never released kinect with the x1 at launch. it was such a bad move. I still blame Mattick 100 percent.

 

[blakep267]

they should have never released kinect with the x1 at launch. it was such a bad move. I still blame Mattick 100 percent.

I think they should've but also had a kinectless bersion that was cheaper. I enjoy my Kinect for the voice controls etc but I understand that others don't and wanted a cheaper console

 

[Leflus]

This. I've read too many articles trying to spin the story around that it wasn't Microsoft's fault.

Except Scott Henson wasn't in charge of Rare when they switched to kinect development. Mark Betteridge was.

 

[scitek]

Er Mattrick isn't the sole responsible, according to the article it was Rare management that decided to go all in on Kinect.

No, but Mattrick was apparently the one to dumb down Kinect sports into being nothing more than a Wii Sports knock-off.

 

[neogaffer1]

No, but Mattrick was apparently the one to dumb down Kinect sports into being nothing more than a Wii Sports knock-off.

as others have pointed out in the thread that was very likely the right decision to make

 

[-MD-]

The Kinect years were dark times for Rare fans, I'm glad they've moved on from that.

They were my favorite studio for a long time.

 

[cyberheater]

VR was going to kill of Kinect anyway.