Pancakes R Us
Member
The number of games is a very interesting point. People say that Rare was really slow at development with delays etc., but when you put it like that...damn. That is a lot in 5 years.
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Eurogamer - 'Rare and the rise and Fall of Kinect'
- Thread starter Neuromancer
- Start date
cyberheater
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Kinect is far too laggy for VR. Which is why they use a camera and led lights on the goggles to track movement.
Great game ideas, may not mean a whole lot if the prototype was showing a game that looked like it was gonna end up playing like shit, and become a Knack. If they were being truly restrictive, then those prototypes would more likely not have existed in the first place. Being supportive doesn't mean greenlighting absolutely everything that is pitched.
TWENTY game pitches, if I remember correctly. TWENTY. Microsoft shot every one of them down that didn't involve Avatars or Kinect.
I refuse to believe these:
... would have turned out terrible at all.
And I certainly would have played a proper Banjo-Kazooie over Nuts & Bolts, or a new RARE kart-racer over Grabbed by the Ghoulies, or a wickedly awesome new Kameo over Kinect Sports Adventure, or many other projects that did get greenlit.
I agree with Banjo tbh. The rest? I dunno... the pitch for Perfect Dark Zero would likely have sounded amazing. The thing is, these were all in development at some point before being cancelled. We don't know the reason they were cancelled, but if you're truly restricting the creative freedoms of a studio, I doubt there would be 20 games in active development to even cancel in the first place.
Kinect Sports came after Viva Pinata: Trouble In Paradise. I'm not sure what the timeframe is for each of these projects, but Viva Pinata is possibly an example of an idea that did make it through. Regardless of how much you'd have possibly preferred to see some of the pitched games released, they still are a studio that needs to sell games to survive.. and on that end, the first Kinect Sports was a very good choice to go forward with (and Kinect Sports Rivals even suggests that Mattrick's requests made sense too).
I'm more concerned about the rise of F2P/microtransactions tbh, VR could end up just being a more immersive version of traditional gaming. F2P though... sometimes it's done right, but most of the time it hurts the experiences and it almost always changes developer motivations.
Anyway, I'm glad that Rare seems to be on the upswing again. I'd love to see some new classics come from them.
You're assuming that all of those pitches were made after 2008. A lot of the prototypes mentioned in the thread you linked to were OG Xbox or early 360 games.
You're also assuming that MS was the ones that forced Rare to cancel the prototypes. Rising dev costs from N64 to Xbox and then to Xbox 360 likely meant that they couldn't work on as many games as they used to in the N64 era. Which in turn meant that they had to prioritize some games over others.
I can see your point regarding 2008 and forward, though. I would have loved to play The Fast and the Furriest. : /
Incitemaybe
Member
Or they would work together
Salty Hippo
Member
Many of them canned around the time Phil Spencer got the role of head of first-party studios, too. I really don't understand why people paint him in a shining armor for doing basically what anyone else would have done to put Xbox One back on track. His track record as head of first-party speaks for itself. Before he got the role in 2008 MS was doing massive efforts to build their library of exclusives. It all came to a halt after he took over, and it became an endless cycle of the same 4 IPs over and over.
He was also responsible for managing Rare during that time. This was probably his strategy for them:
Step 1: Make everyone who isn't on board with Kinect leave the studio by canning their projects.
Step 2: Put a Kinect loon like Henson in charge.
Step 3: Say to the public that it has been a self-driven decision on Rare's part to work on Kinect games.
He waited until KSR flopped miserably and then, and only then, started to tweet out his typical PR bull like "Rare should be more than a Kinect studio" and "Rare is making a uniquely Rare game, as it should always be". This fucking guy, man.
Holy shit, you are indeed the saltiest of hippos.
PanicFreak
Member
Rare threads are always the best. ALWAYS!
~Devil Trigger~
In favor of setting Muslim women on fire
wow, great article
for people saying Kinect was a "success" and "sold millions", thats the nature of fads, they burn bright and fast.
Glad this era has past
for people saying Kinect was a "success" and "sold millions", thats the nature of fads, they burn bright and fast.
Glad this era has past
Tyreese Victoria
Banned
It's also why I believe Nintendo losing Rare was a big deal. Not only were Rare titles complementary to Nintendo's own, as they mainly targeted western audiences, but also Nintendo's own output was cut significantly upon losing Rare.
Rare were EASILY Nintendo's strongest studio, they would have helped massively during the Wii/3DS/Wii U era, but now Nintendo have to try and churn out games through skeleton teams such as ND Cube, Creatures Inc and 1UP studios, which obviously hasn't been going well for them.
I also strongly suspect Nintendo's online systems would have been pioneered by Rare, if Nintendo had kept hold of them.
To Far Away Times
Member
I would have loved to see Kinnect really take off.
Dance Central was great, I liked Children of Eden a lot too.
One of the highlights of last gen, easily.
Dance Central was great, I liked Children of Eden a lot too.
One of the highlights of last gen, easily.
And then they could have used it for a more advanced version of 1 vs 100, and world peace would have been achieved.
PetulantChild
Banned
Just another reason to despise Mattrick. Please please please let the other game Rare is supposedly working on be Viva Pinata 3, it's a game like very few others and deserves success, in my opinion one of Rares best games ever made.
Fruit Ninja is also awesome. Genuinely awesome.
I do hope Kinect games aren't dead. But I do hope they're nuanced, and unforced.
Neuromancer
Member
Oh man 1 vs 100 was so good. I can't believe no one else has tried a live game show on console. I guess the ad money just wasn't there.
From the article:
I have mixed feelings about Kinect. Like others have mentioned Dance Central was great and my nieces and nephew had a lot fun with Kinectimals and Kinect Sports. But the technology just wasn't at the level it needed to be to deliver deeper experiences, and provide the peripheral with any longevity. I'm not sad to see it go, but I think it was a great idea which could have had more potential.
I hope we're not having a discussion like this about VR in a few years time. But fortunately for VR, I think it has has a few advantages. Multiple companies competing for market share pushes the technology to its limits. Also the early adopters will be the hardcore enthusiasts who will then help the technology slowly spread to the masses, rather than the bubble style fad of Kinect which we know quickly burst.
Salty Hippo
Member
I try my best.
I'll believe Phil Spencer when he stops talking and starts acting. Announce some beloved games like your competition has been doing all year. Greenlight more unique, riskier projects. Expand your internal studios, because your second-party portfolio, while respectable on its own right, is just not enough to compete with PS4 right now. Work to get japanese games like Ni-Oh and Nier 2 instead of accepting that everything should be PS4 exclusive by default. Get rid of your ridiculous parity clause. Get rid of your ridiculous block on cross-play games. Make a real compromise with PC gaming once and for all, or at the very least stop promising shit and focus entirely on your console instead.
Not holding my breath for any of these things, though.
I try my best.
I'll believe Phil Spencer when he stops talking and starts acting. Announce some beloved games like your competition has been doing all year. Greenlight more unique, riskier projects. Expand your internal studios, because your second-party portfolio, while respectable on its own right, is just not enough to compete with PS4 right now. Work to get japanese games like Ni-Oh and Nier 2 instead of accepting that everything should be PS4 exclusive by default. Get rid of your ridiculous parity clause. Get rid of your ridiculous block on cross-play games. Make a real compromise with PC gaming once and for all, or at the very least stop promising shit and focus entirely on your console instead.
Not holding my breath for any of these things, though.
Some of the things you've listed, absolutely have happened though in the time since Phil took over. Was Killer Instinct or Crackdown not beloved? Was Project Spark not unique and risky? Are The Coalition, Team Dakota, Press Play, Mojang not expansions to their internal teams? Are games like Scalebound and Crimson Dragon not Japanese games in the vein of those you listed? Is the current push for Windows 10 games including core titles like Killer Instinct, Halo Wars, Fable Legends, Gears along with funding for game like Ori and the Blind Forest not really compromises towards PC gaming?
Just because there are areas where Sony trumps them (and PC gaming is certainly not one of them), does not equate to Phil not taking any actions to improve the Xbox division... at the end of the day, if he wasn't taking any notable action, then the console wouldn't be seeing such a drastic change in how its viewed since prior to launch. In many ways Sony has a far easier task with many of these areas... getting a Japanese exclusive is hardly the same level of task for both Phil and Shu based purely on the past histories of both divisions in the market, before either took charge. To secure significant Japanese exclusives, Phil would basically have to dump absolutely fucking ridiculous moneyhats off at the relevant studios, because you're asking them to not be able to sell their game in their home market. This approach has already been tried with the 360... and it failed, hard... and all it mostly accomplished was pissing off those that couldn't play games like Tales of Vesperia or Eternal Sonata until later dates, whilst almost dooming those games in Japan. It benefits nobody beyond those looking to create list wars.
Regardless of how you believe he's handling all this (and that's not to mention other areas like backwards-compatibility that everyone claimed was him blowing smoke, before it actually happened... and happened in probably the most customer friendly way imaginable), there's still no reason to act like the guy simply runs his mouth all day saying nice things, whilst basically sabotaging the Xbox gaming offerings from the inside, like your previous post seems to imply. Kinect was the drive in 2008, that wouldn't have been his choice... but contrary to what you're claiming there was more than 4 IPs being worked on in rotation. You may not like the Kinect, but it produced a fuckton of new IP, and there were a lot of great XBLA arcade games pushed during that period too (like fucking HYDRO THUNDER ffs... speaking of beloved franchises), far more than in the years preceding his control. Your rant isn't really justified imo at all.
daTRUballin
Member
I've always found it funny how gamers have been claiming all the talent left Rare and that Rare is dead for over a decade now. Back in the 2000s after the buyout, the narrative was always that Rare had no talent anymore and that Nintendo tricked MS into buying an empty shell of a developer for half a billion bucks. Back then, people weren't really aware of Microsoft's mismanagement of the studio and always assumed Rare's problems stemmed from the "fact" that they lost their talent (even though the old guard was still there up until 2009/2010 when the studio was restructured into a Kinect developer). People were saying this when the Playtonic guys were still there, and now they're saying that all the "real talent" is now at Playtonic. How's that for irony?
I'm still not sure where this narrative came from. It could've just been Nintendo fans being salty about the buyout and spewing a bunch of nonsense, but I think most people were just misinformed about things in general. The only people to leave Rare before the buyout were the Free Radical guys and maybe a couple of others. The rest of the teams were pretty much intact. I think most people just looked at both the quality and quantity of their output during the MS years and just assumed the old guard had all left at that point, ignoring the possibility that maybe Microsoft had something to do with their output being not quite up to par compared with their Nintendo years (for whatever reason).
Nowadays, people are more aware about the relationship between MS and Rare, but many are still ready to completely write off Rare just because they made some Kinect games and the old guard has left. Yes, it IS true that most veterans have left the studio at this point, but that doesn't mean the new hires are somehow "talentless" as a result. Talent is always replaceable. Maybe some people should wait and see what the current talent at Rare is really capable of when they're not shackled to the Kinect before writing the studio off. It would only be fair that way. I'm personally willing to see what the current talent can come up with throughout this gen, and I'd love to see what they can do with some of their older franchises.
Who knows? Maybe the current talent working there can make a game better than the "old guard" ever could. Let's give them a chance.
I'm still not sure where this narrative came from. It could've just been Nintendo fans being salty about the buyout and spewing a bunch of nonsense, but I think most people were just misinformed about things in general. The only people to leave Rare before the buyout were the Free Radical guys and maybe a couple of others. The rest of the teams were pretty much intact. I think most people just looked at both the quality and quantity of their output during the MS years and just assumed the old guard had all left at that point, ignoring the possibility that maybe Microsoft had something to do with their output being not quite up to par compared with their Nintendo years (for whatever reason).
Nowadays, people are more aware about the relationship between MS and Rare, but many are still ready to completely write off Rare just because they made some Kinect games and the old guard has left. Yes, it IS true that most veterans have left the studio at this point, but that doesn't mean the new hires are somehow "talentless" as a result. Talent is always replaceable. Maybe some people should wait and see what the current talent at Rare is really capable of when they're not shackled to the Kinect before writing the studio off. It would only be fair that way. I'm personally willing to see what the current talent can come up with throughout this gen, and I'd love to see what they can do with some of their older franchises.
Who knows? Maybe the current talent working there can make a game better than the "old guard" ever could. Let's give them a chance.
Silent Chief
Member
Can't see you unless you get off the couch. So, no.
PanicFreak
Member
That's weird, I played D4 on my couch using Kinect. I must have been imagining things.
Salty Hippo
Member
I'm a MASSIVE Rare fan and I love what they did with KI but even I know for a fact that Killer Instinct and Crackdown are not even on the same planet of the stuff Sony has been pulling. Come on, it's just not the same.
I'm not saying Spencer didn't take any action, just that most of what he's done so far has been stuff anyone with a tiny bit of good sense would have done as well. He made the console's perception go from 'utter shite' to 'alright'. I don't think that's enough. He should be blowing our minds considering the position Xbox is in this generation. But it looks like he is very satisfied with that distant 2nd place.
Project Spark, risky? That was barely a game, and was sent out to die. Does anyone even talk about it anymore? They clearly didn't invest enough in it. They almost never do unless it's a proven franchise. The Conker disgrace they pulled made me feel embarrassed of being a fan of Rare for the first time in my life. Absolute garbage and zero commitment or care for the IP. They dug the poor squirrel out of his grave, took a piss on his corpse and then buried him even deeper. I guess we can thank Spencer for that.
I agree that Sony has an easier task with some things, but if you're not willing to compete then why are you even in this industry? Sony gets a lot of japanese exclusives by default for absolute free, I'm sure if MS cared they could convince those devs to release the games (that aren't super niche of course) in the west, and it would not take a truckload of money to do it. They could have a support team to help with the porting or something. They should be committed and aware that the only thing that can make them gain some ground is the games library. A library that appeals to everyone, not just dudebros.
Backwards compatibility is nice and puts Sony and their shenanigans to shame. I'd say the consistent system updates and features are other great things about Xbox this gen. But let's face it, this stuff is never going to get me and many others to buy the system.
And it really was just Halo, Gears, Forza and Fable during the last 3 years of 360. I'm sorry, but I shouldn't even need to explain why the Kinect stuff doesn't or at least shouldn't count. Those games are all shit. I don't care what anyone says.
Out of the those 4 big main MS franchises I mentioned, I really like the first three, but it's been too long since that is almost literally ALL we get from their first/second party studios in terms of core games. There has been a slight bigger push this gen with KI, Max and Ori, but they are all small, low budget, low risk projects. Two years into the new gen and their AAA internal stuff continues to be those 3 or 4 franchises. It's just pathetic.
You mentioned The Coalition, which is a new studio that was never given a chance to make their own thing and were turned into a Gears factory. And Mojang, which was purchased with a very specific strategy in mind, almost as its own brand separate from Xbox. It's a very different beast than studios like 343, Turn 10, Rare and Lionhead. They don't make games, they just nurture Minecraft at this point. Minecraft serves to print its own money and as a marketing tool for Microsoft as a whole. I don't think these are the best examples of expansion to what I was refering (core games, new games), but ok.
Btw I just want to make it clear that there's no animosity whatsoever in this post. I actually consider you one of the best posters at Neogaf. For reals.
PanicFreak
Member
I'm a MASSIVE Rare fan and I love what they did with KI but even I know for a fact that Killer Instinct and Crackdown are not even on the same planet of the stuff Sony has been pulling. Come on, it's just not the same.
I'm not saying Spencer didn't take any action, just that most of what he's done so far has been stuff anyone with a tiny bit of good sense would have done as well. He made the console's perception go from 'utter shite' to 'alright'. I don't think that's enough. He should be blowing our minds considering the position Xbox is in this generation. But it looks like he is very satisfied with that distant 2nd place.
Project Spark, risky? That was barely a game, and was sent out to die. Does anyone even talk about it anymore? They clearly didn't invest enough in it. They almost never do unless it's a proven franchise. The Conker disgrace they pulled made me feel embarrassed of being a fan of Rare for the first time in my life. Absolute garbage and zero commitment or care for the IP. They dug the poor squirrel out of his grave, took a piss on his corpse and then buried him even deeper. I guess we can thank Spencer for that.
I agree that Sony has an easier task with some things, but if you're not willing to compete then why are you even in this industry? Sony gets a lot of japanese exclusives by default for absolute free, I'm sure if MS cared they could convince those devs to release the games (that aren't super niche of course) in the west, and it would not take a truckload of money to do it. They could have a support team to help with the porting or something. They should be committed and aware that the only thing that can make them gain some ground is the games library. A library that appeals to everyone, not just dudebros.
Backwards compatibility is nice and puts Sony and their shenanigans to shame. I'd say the consistent system updates and features are other great things about Xbox this gen. But let's face it, this stuff is never going to get me and many others to buy the system.
And it really was just Halo, Gears, Forza and Fable during the last 3 years of 360. I'm sorry, but I shouldn't even need to explain why the Kinect stuff doesn't or at least shouldn't count. Those games are all shit. I don't care what anyone says.
Out of the those 4 big main MS franchises I mentioned, I really like the first three, but it's been too long since that is almost literally ALL we get from their first/second party studios in terms of core games. There has been a slight bigger push this gen with KI, Max and Ori, but they are all small, low budget, low risk projects. Two years into the new gen and their AAA internal stuff continues to be those 3 or 4 franchises. It's just pathetic.
You mentioned The Coalition, which is a new studio that was never given a chance to make their own thing and were turned into a Gears factory. And Mojang, which was purchased with a very specific strategy in mind, almost as its own brand separate from Xbox. It's a very different beast than studios like 343, Turn 10, Rare and Lionhead. They don't make games, they just nurture Minecraft at this point. Minecraft serves to print its own money and as a marketing tool for Microsoft as a whole. I don't think these are the best examples of expansion to what I was refering (core games, new games), but ok.
Btw I just want to make it clear that there's no animosity whatsoever in this post. I actually consider you one of the best posters at Neogaf. For reals.
You were making great points until you hit the Kinect software. Saying that Kinect doesn't count because you don't like it (reasons?) is like saying that a chef's meals don't count because they went vegan and you like to eat bacon. You don't need to like it but you should at least acknowledge the effort that went into it because, at the end of the day, Microsoft tried to turn Kinect into a viable gaming platform.
I'm a MASSIVE Rare fan and I love what they did with KI but even I know for a fact that Killer Instinct and Crackdown are not even on the same planet of the stuff Sony has been pulling. Come on, it's just not the same.
I'm not saying Spencer didn't take any action, just that most of what he's done so far has been stuff anyone with a tiny bit of good sense would have done as well. He made the console's perception go from 'utter shite' to 'alright'. I don't think that's enough. He should be blowing our minds considering the position Xbox is in this generation. But it looks like he is very satisfied with that distant 2nd place.
Project Spark, risky? That was barely a game, and was sent out to die. Does anyone even talk about it anymore? They clearly didn't invest enough in it. They almost never do unless it's a proven franchise. The Conker disgrace they pulled made me feel embarrassed of being a fan of Rare for the first time in my life. Absolute garbage and zero commitment or care for the IP. They dug the poor squirrel out of his grave, took a piss on his corpse and then buried him even deeper. I guess we can thank Spencer for that.
I agree that Sony has an easier task with some things, but if you're not willing to compete then why are you even in this industry? Sony gets a lot of japanese exclusives by default for absolute free, I'm sure if MS cared they could convince those devs to release the games (that aren't super niche of course) in the west, and it would not take a truckload of money to do it. They could have a support team to help with the porting or something. They should be committed and aware that the only thing that can make them gain some ground is the games library. A library that appeals to everyone, not just dudebros.
Backwards compatibility is nice and puts Sony and their shenanigans to shame. I'd say the consistent system updates and features are other great things about Xbox this gen. But let's face it, this stuff is never going to get me and many others to buy the system.
And it really was just Halo, Gears, Forza and Fable during the last 3 years of 360. I'm sorry, but I shouldn't even need to explain why the Kinect stuff doesn't or at least shouldn't count. Those games are all shit. I don't care what anyone says.
Out of the those 4 big main MS franchises I mentioned, I really like the first three, but it's been too long since that is almost literally ALL we get from their first/second party studios in terms of core games. There has been a slight bigger push this gen with KI, Max and Ori, but they are all small, low budget, low risk projects. Two years into the new gen and their AAA internal stuff continues to be those 3 or 4 franchises. It's just pathetic.
You mentioned The Coalition, which is a new studio that was never given a chance to make their own thing and were turned into a Gears factory. And Mojang, which was purchased with a very specific strategy in mind, almost as its own brand separate from Xbox. It's a very different beast than studios like 343, Turn 10, Rare and Lionhead. They don't make games, they just nurture Minecraft at this point. Minecraft serves to print its own money and as a marketing tool for Microsoft as a whole. I don't think these are the best examples of expansion to what I was refering (core games, new games), but ok.
Btw I just want to make it clear that there's no animosity whatsoever in this post. I actually consider you one of the best posters at Neogaf. For reals.
The guys at Team Dakota reached out to Rare with their Conker idea and Rare was cool with it. How are you going to blame Spencer for that?
TheUnsunghero26
Member
Great article. Rare has always been my favourite company, and I'm really looking forward to Sea of Thieves. Gregg Mayles is a legend. To see him finally make a pirate game is awesome.
Alx
Member
It can, it is the limb tracking that didn't work right when you were seated (and that was at launch, the tracking got updated later when games like Fable the Journey released).
I'm not sure additional features for the couch gamer would have been a good selling argument to be honest, but there are certainly things that can be done. Even more so with Kinect2, which could detect the user laughing, talking, looking away etc (you could have fourth-wall breaking scripts like a NPC saying "are you laughing at me, mate ?" or "hey, stay focused !")
Yes it's not really the best control input for VR. Although it could be used in things like "3D video chat" where you would see other people inserted in the 3D world. The issue is that if those people are doing VR too, you'd see them with their headset on.
Hey you know what, that's something that could be interesting to improve the "not too social" aspect of VR. When someone is playing with friends around, instead of only letting him hear them, you could insert them around him in the game (maybe as "jedi ghosts"), so he can still see their reactions. Would be cool actually, and latency/lower framerate wouldn't be an issue.
cyberheater
PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
It doesn't matter. Xbox One isn't powerful enough for good VR.
But what about "Believe in Phil Spencer"? And Yes, I was cheated a bit when the new Rare game was announced after the bold. Well I was disappointed full stop honestly. At the very least it's not a Kinect game but there is at least 50/50 chance that's due to Kinect being dead.
There's a lot to be said about his tenure as head of first party for sure. The tail end of the Xbox 360 life cycle is nothing to brag about. If there's an Xbox Two, I unfortunately predict similar treatment given their market position, dev cycles and first party studio investments.
Auto-Reply
Member
I vaguely remember reading about Rare becoming committed to kinect game development, I swear that I knew then and there that this was not going to work out and was a mistake. Even as an outsider with no detailed information it just didn't make any sense to me.
Saint of Killers
Member
So they convinced people to buy the tech but not the games to go with it/the games weren't good enough? Reads as though they somehow managed to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.
I had no idea about its world record. Wow.
B1gg_Randall
Member
So true.And Dance Central should have been a launch title
ProfessorMoran
Member
Saviour Phil is a bit of a fraud, he says all the right things but when it comes to doing the right things it's a completely different story, a lot of their current first party studios are a bunch of franchise sweatshops, combine it with a complete bungling of third party exclusive deals like the rotr bomba I'm not sure if he's a huge upgrade from Mattrick like he's portrayed to be. What really saved them was ditching kinect to become price competitive and last winter they basically bled money just to stay in the game.I try my best.
I'll believe Phil Spencer when he stops talking and starts acting. Announce some beloved games like your competition has been doing all year. Greenlight more unique, riskier projects. Expand your internal studios, because your second-party portfolio, while respectable on its own right, is just not enough to compete with PS4 right now. Work to get japanese games like Ni-Oh and Nier 2 instead of accepting that everything should be PS4 exclusive by default. Get rid of your ridiculous parity clause. Get rid of your ridiculous block on cross-play games. Make a real compromise with PC gaming once and for all, or at the very least stop promising shit and focus entirely on your console instead.
Not holding my breath for any of these things, though.
Stare-Bear
Banned
i still find it shocking how fast MS dropped the Kinect 2.0. They didn't even support it long enough to really find it's feet and have some innovative games for it.
daTRUballin
Member
Well, what would you have done if your first Kinect game sold millions and your previous games were all pretty much bombs? Would you have done more games in the same vein as the previous games and have more financial failures, or would you make sequels to the Kinect games that sell really well?
Makes sense to me. They made the right choice at the time, and it worked out well for them (except for Kinect Sports Rivals, I guess). Their traditional games were being entirely ignored by gamers.
Ironically, a super low latency Kinect could do wonders for VR. Total immersion where you could view your virtual body.
Miles Quaritch
Member
Where's that thread with all those rejected RARE concepts?
Heartbreaking stuff in there...
Heartbreaking stuff in there...
Alx
Member
A huge part of the latency in kinect is due to the limb tracking that is applied to the raw data. To view your virtual body you could just render the raw data, witha much lower latency.
Some guy did it with multiple first gen kinects and an Oculus Rift actually, and comments on it there :
https://youtu.be/Ghgbycqb92c?t=124
I think we have to accept that concepts are rejected all the time in most dev studios. They're even giving examples of kinect games being rejected.
It also sold an insane amount.
Surely the guy is doing interesting stuff! Saw this in a related video to the video you linked:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgo4CMParcw
Talking about raw data, some games may show an abstract form of your body, cloud of points, not necessarily with a texture mapping from live video. But limb tracking could still be necessary for most games I guess (you in a space suit, you having a robot's body, etc.)
cyberheater
PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
I agree and maybe it would work on a powerful PC but Xbox One devs wouldn't want to sacrifice half the CPU just for super low latency Kinect.
On the other hand the processing could be done at the Kinect end but that would raise the price significantly.
IncognitoPanda
Member
Yeah, people simply like a good story about a villain and a hero, myself included. Mattrick is the villain and Spencer is the hero.
Any sensible person realizes it's not as black and white as that, it'd just be nice if it were.
Personally, I think the best aspect of Phil Spencer is the fact that he took the wheel of a broken ship. It doesn't matter too much now whether or not he's genuine. People like him for his games background, the PS4 is a juggernaut because it's "game centric", thus Xbox has little choice but to follow suit.
It's just too bad that MS has been completely reactive these last years, instead of leading.
Auto-Reply
Member
Oh I was talking only from the perspective of a fan of those earlier failures, not from the Don Mattrick perspective.
Rare seized to be interesting to me when they went that route, that was the mistake in my eyes. And reading how they realised the limitations of the hardware they should have known what the future held for kinect in general, after the first wave of positive enthusiasm faded away it became clear that nobody would be able to make a game with kinect that resembles any game we expected at the time.
They should have abandoned it then and there, instead they doubled down on it with the XB1 kinect.