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[Thirty7ven]

Inflation doesn't affect economics... got it. There is no correlation with inflation and tech layoffs. There is no correlation with inflation and recession.

Was that what you meant? So say Housemarque which are getting big investment even though Returnal wasn’t exactly a big seller, is actually getting less money than before because of inflation and recession? Even though they are growing and moving into a new supposedly state of the art HQ, they will produce less than before because… recession + inflation.

Listen I think maybe we should wait and see. Sometimes games take more time because they are more ambitious, not because money buys you less bread, because actually you have more people working on the game, and trying to achieve something bigger.

I don’t know man, maybe I just don’t get it.

 

[hinch7]

Its a little baffling that in a saturated market Sony would try push the live service, when most of their recent stuff have largly floundered. And most of their more recently released multiplayer based games haven't had that much luck. Bungie should be fine as that's what they are known for but the rest should just avoid that pit-fall. We've seen aplenty of devs fall to that trap and never recover - Bioware, Arkane etc etc.

Should just stuck to what they are good at and thats high quality single player games that you can't play elsewhere (at least initially for new PS games). With maybe some MP tacked where appropriate or wanted.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Its a little baffling that in a saturated market Sony would try push the live service, when most of their recent stuff have largly floundered. And most of their more recently released multiplayer based games haven't had that much luck. Bungie should be fine as that's what they are known for but the rest should just avoid that pit-fall. We've seen aplenty of devs fall to that trap and never recover - Bioware, Arkane etc etc.

Should just stuck to what they are good at and thats high quality single player games that you can't play elsewhere (at least initially for new PS games). With maybe some MP tacked where appropriate or wanted.

Why do you think the Live Service market is saturated?

 

[SABRE220]

This might be quite a blunder on sony's part. They seem to be prioritizing gaas at the cost of their usual major single-player releases which actually gave them their success. Breaking through in the saturated gaas market is far from easy and if those releases fail its not going to be pretty.. this could give Microsoft a decent opportunity turn heads by pumping out exclusives from their acquisitions(insane number of ips under their umbrella now). Sony's mo so far this gen is to milk insomniac to the bone and push out remasters and cross gen releases and its getting old fast.

 

[ulantan]

This might be quite a blunder on sony's part. They seem to be prioritizing gaas at the cost of their usual major single-player releases which actually gave them their success. Breaking through in the saturated gaas market is far from easy and if those releases fail its not going to be pretty.. this could give Microsoft a decent opportunity turn heads by pumping out exclusives from their acquisitions(insane number of ips under their umbrella now). Sony's mo so far this gen is to milk insomniac to the bone and push out remasters and cross gen releases and its getting old fast.

Microsoft just spent 70 billion on Gaas games.

 

[SABRE220]

Microsoft just spent 70 billion on Gaas games.

They spent money on alot more than gaas, they now have just about all the Western RPGs under their belt, the best shooters like doom under Lockdown, and a lot more. Microsoft is one of the few who are legit rich enough that they can blink off the lost revenue from the lost ps sales, gaas isn't their priority currently its getting gamepass flying.

 

[ulantan]

They spent 70 million on alot more than gaas, they now have just about all the Western RPGs under their belt, the best shooters like doom under Lockdown, and a lot more. Microsoft is one of the few who are legit rich enough that they can blink off the lost revenue from the lost ps sales, gaas isn't their priority currently its getting gamepass flying.

Game Pass and Gass go hand in hand that's the whole point 70 billion them bought call of duty, overwatch, world of warcraft, diablo, and candy crush. They are not going to pivot those studios to make single player games.

 

[hinch7]

Why do you think the Live Service market is saturated?

Aplenty of games already have an active player base that won't move on to other games (listed in this thead and can be found on stuff like Steam Charts). As in most live games I've seen come and go kinda just gain popularity and fizzle out in a couple months max after the honeymoon period is over. Loosing money for the publishers and potentially pulling the dev on from doing from what they want to do. All to make some money grinder that only has a small chance to succeed. Its just a waste of resource imo, especially when you put your best teams on it that have absolutely no experience in that field.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Game Pass and Gass go hand in hand that's the whole point 70 billion them bought call of duty, overwatch, world of warcraft, diablo, and candy crush. They are not going to pivot those studios to make single player games.

Why would you pay for a monthly Service for access to "your one game" that's likely F2P?

 

[ulantan]

Why would you pay for a monthly Service for access to "your one game" that's likely F2P?

All of those games minus candy crush have stores and cost 70 bucks

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Aplenty of games already have an active player base that won't move on to other games (listed in this thead and can be found on stuff like Steam Charts).

This has always been the case. You could have typed it in 2010 and it would have been true. We all know Live Service was saturated in 2010.

As in most live games I've seen come and go kinda just gain popularity and fizzle out in a couple months max after the honeymoon period is over.

Another statement that could have been true if you typed it in 2010. Plenty of failed Live Service games at that point too.

Also, how do you explain all the failed single player games we see today?

I'm not seeing a rational argument for what the Live Service market is saturated.

 

[Negotiator101]

What do EG know?

 

[mckmas8808]

I make GaaS seem like roses when I say I'm the least interested person in GaaS at neogaf?

Jesus christ...

Returnal may have broke even or even created net profit, but it is not succesful in the sense that it sold PlayStation consoles or created a franchise, which is ultimately what Sony is looking to do with their properties. Maybe we'll see some Alien-esque Edge of Tomorrow movie built around Returnal.

Sony Bend walked away from Day's Gone, not Sony. The user reviews aren't all that high on Day's Gone either.

3-4 is a pipe dream. Can you tell me years in which 3-4 AAA hits were released by any manufacturer with any consistency? You mention MLB the Show, but that's a bit of a joke.

How is MLB The Show a joke? It's a legit AAA game. The best thing Sony can do going forward is to make more games like Returnal and less like Destruction All-Stars.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

All of those games minus candy crush have stores and cost 70 bucks

You think all GAAS cost 70 dollars? In what world are you living in, Brother?

 

[ulantan]

You think all GAAS cost 70 dollars? In what world are you living in, Brother?

Call of duty full price, diablo full price, wow is about 60 bucks per expansion plus a sub, call of duty is 70 bucks per game every year. I'm talking about the games they just invested in.

 

[RGB'D]

Was that what you meant? So say Housemarque which are getting big investment even though Returnal wasn’t exactly a big seller, is actually getting less money than before because of inflation and recession? Even though they are growing and moving into a new supposedly state of the art HQ, they will produce less than before because… recession + inflation.

Listen I think maybe we should wait and see. Sometimes games take more time because they are more ambitious, not because money buys you less bread, because actually you have more people working on the game, and trying to achieve something bigger.

I don’t know man, maybe I just don’t get it.

I mean sure money doesn't mean EVERYTHING but it is literally the lifeblood of their business. Wait and see is fine, but as a PS consumer, I'm incredibly skeptical of their investment in Gaas. If they still release high quality AAA SP story driven, then that's awesome. But their investment into Gaas as the dominant investment by 2025 has me skeptical.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Call of duty full price, diablo full price, wow is about 60 bucks per expansion plus a sub, call of duty is 70 bucks per game every year. I'm talking about the games they just invested in.

I just don't see GamePass as having a strong pull with gamers who only play 1 game. You can buy Diablo 4 and get months or years out of it without spending an extra dime. The service seems much better suited for gamers who burn through content and constantly thirst for more.

 

[ulantan]

I just don't see GamePass as having a strong pull with gamers who only play 1 game. You can buy Diablo 4 and get months or years out of it without spending an extra dime. The service seems much better suited for gamers who burn through content and constantly thirst for more.

You get people who would never drop 70 dollars right to engagement with the store.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

You get people who would never drop 70 dollars right to engagement with the store.

True, but as soon as that gamer realizes "Wait a second, all I play is Diablo. Why am I paying this monthly fee for games I don't play?" they cancel GamePass and mainline Diablo.

It feels like a much easier sell for gamers who rip through games in a week and want their next fix immediately after. The math works out way better for those types.

 

[Ozriel]

True, but as soon as that gamer realizes "Wait a second, all I play is Diablo. Why am I paying this monthly fee for games I don't play?" they cancel GamePass and mainline Diablo.

It feels like a much easier sell for gamers who rip through games in a week and want their next fix immediately after. The math works out way better for those types.

What percentage of gamers do you imagine play only one game?

 

[KingT731]

What percentage of gamers do you imagine play only one game?

It's not a small number. You'd call them casuals and many only play CoD/Fifa/Fortnite etc etc this is a known quantity

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

They spent money on alot more than gaas, they now have just about all the Western RPGs under their belt, the best shooters like doom under Lockdown, and a lot more. Microsoft is one of the few who are legit rich enough that they can blink off the lost revenue from the lost ps sales, gaas isn't their priority currently its getting gamepass flying.

Someone should've reminded secret agent Judge Corley this more-than-obvious fact or better yet, shown her the damn emails and internal memos saying as such from several Microsoft employees.

This whole ABK saga has just 100% turned me off from giving a shit about regulatory bodies altogether going forward. None of them are worth listening to, it's all theatrics with backdoor corruption and heavy lobbying that favors incompetent companies too big for their own good because they built up empires out of monopolies.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

What percentage of gamers do you imagine play only one game?

Hard question to answer. Probably not that many. But...

As more and more gamers spend the bulk of their time in one game (a very real trend) they're naturally going to value tertiary games less and less.

I do feel sorry for people who think Fortnite and Roblox represent the peak of GAAS. These games are mere tremors for what's to come. This conversation will only cease when the market is so obviously dominated by GAAS you (not you you) look crazier and crazier trying to deny it.

 

[jayj]

Hard question to answer. Probably not that many. But...

As more and more gamers spend the bulk of their time in one game (a very real trend) they're naturally going to value tertiary games less and less.

I do feel sorry for people who think Fortnite and Roblox represent the peak of GAAS. These games are mere tremors for what's to come. This conversation will only cease when the market is so obviously dominated by GAAS you (not you you) look crazier and crazier trying to deny it.

I think live services are going to more or less become their own segment, becoming too monopolized and big budgeted to really make sense for a lot of developers.

That and the amount of time they demand, as well as how dedicated people become towards playing one game means a lot of attempts at the latest live service phenomenon will ultimately fail. We have already seen this happening a lot, and it basically feels like a merge between mobile and console gaming. They're big budgeted spectaculars like a lot of console games, while embracing the free2play and online service dependency of a lot of mobile games. That at least seems to be the formula for the most successful live service titles.

 

[Torrent of Pork]

One thing I think a lot of people need to understand is that the vast majority of GaaS games are duds that at-best make a middling profit, before being utterly forgotten within a year. Sony's strategy of a dozen game shotgun blast, hoping for one solid money-maker is actually a very smart move, but there will be failures left and right until they find their golden goose.

There are already a shit-load of games that demand all your gaming time, there is no way every one of them are going to hit.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

One thing I think a lot of people need to understand is that the vast majority of GaaS games are duds that at-best make a middling profit, before being utterly forgotten within a year. Sony's strategy of a dozen game shotgun blast, hoping for one solid money-maker is actually a very smart move, but there will be failures left and right until they find their golden goose.

There are already a shit-load of games that demand all your gaming time, there is no way every one of them are going to hit.

This sentiment is everywhere.

It will be interesting if Helldivers 2 comes out (moderate success), Concord comes out (huge success), and Marathon comes out (huge success)...and then PlayStations first 5 GAAS games (GT7, MLB The Show) are all hits.

What will the narrative shift to then?

 

[jayj]

This sentiment is everywhere.

It will be interesting if Helldivers 2 comes out (moderate success), Concord comes out (huge success), and Marathon comes out (huge success)...and then PlayStations first 5 GAAS games (GT7, MLB The Show) are all hits.

What will the narrative shift to then?

I think GT7 was sort of lightning in a bottle because it managed to corner the sim racing market and it already had a massive and dedicated fanbase before it even released. As for MLB it's not really a live services game, that's just an optional aspect of it as it's still a playable game with a lot to it offline.