• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
  • Hey Guest. Check out the NeoGAF 2.2 Update Thread for details on our new Giphy integration and other new features.

Opinion Even though XsX has a disc drive, Game Pass will kill the used game industry (for Xbox, at least)

Will Game Pass subscription kill used games on the Xbox series X?

  • No, it won't have an effect.

    Votes: 28 24.8%
  • No, it won't kill it, but it will definitely cut down on used game ownership

    Votes: 57 50.4%
  • Yeah, used games on Xbox are on borrowed time

    Votes: 28 24.8%

  • Total voters
    113

DunDunDunpachi

Patient MembeR
Apr 18, 2018
29,287
70,020
1,375
USA
dunpachi.com
Poll included for those who wish to weigh in with a vote.

Game Pass hands out digital games to subscribers, and also offers discounted digital copies to subscribers who want to own a copy. Physical, however, is left in the cold. You're paying full price.

Microsoft is aggressively changing the price structure of the industry, making it too expensive for The Other Guys to sell their games at a profitable price. But moreso than buying full-priced games, this is a move against retail games. Microsoft wants to set the price and dole out the ownership. They want you on Game Pass moreso than they want you on Xbox hardware, and they've repeated this multiple times. The unspoken desire is to get you on a digital collection instead of printing those pesky videogame discs so that you can own the game yourself. Pushing everything into GaaS format makes physical discs even less desirable.

I could be way off, but I don't foresee Xbox series S/X games holding on to a lot of shelf space after the next 2 years. Physical games won't sell because it will be the most expensive way to buy games on the Xbox. Low physical sales means publishers and retailers are less likely to put out more physical copies for future games, and used-game shops are not as likely to devote shelf space to them. Give it a few years and you'll have a lot of Xboxes sold but not a lot of physical games out in the wild to be sold back to secondhand stores.

I don't necessarily think this is a bad way to go about it, by the way. It's better to attract your customers to something else instead of cutting it out and dealing with their anger.
 
Last edited:

jshackles

Gentlemen, we can rebuild it. We have the capability to make the world's first enhanced store. Steam will be that store. Better than it was before.
Jul 2, 2013
17,101
17,195
1,325
Oregon
Gotta agree, I've spent the last few years on my Xbox One X being 100% digital only. Sure Game Pass has played a big part in that, but I also attribute it to excellent weekly digital sales and four monthly "Games with Gold" games that have helped build my library to crazy levels. Just look on places like Gamefly or eBay to see how much physical games are going for once they land on Game Pass or are given away for "free" with GwG (this also applies to PS+ free games though).

Like Vawn Vawn said, I doubt I'll ever put a single game disk into my Series X and would have been super happy to pay $100 less for a diskless version.
 

martino

Member
Apr 25, 2013
5,754
3,438
675
France
if you're into buying second hand games and resell ti buy next one then gamepass just make life easier for you
for in a lot of case probably cheaper and playing games sooner
 

Harry Tung

Member
Jun 1, 2018
3,914
7,955
515
Sweden
You see it already, publishers don't print physical copies for Xbox, just Switch and PS. Microsoft has conditioned their fanbase to go 100% digital. And with Gamepass, sales numbers are dwindling fast. Imagine a future that consists of only digital storefronts and GaaS games.
 

jshackles

Gentlemen, we can rebuild it. We have the capability to make the world's first enhanced store. Steam will be that store. Better than it was before.
Jul 2, 2013
17,101
17,195
1,325
Oregon
Imagine a future that consists of only digital storefronts and GaaS games.
I can see it. Movies have gone the same way, there are way less people willing to shell out $20+ for a blu ray or 4K blu ray movie these days, but will happily pay $12 a month for Netflix. Amazon, Microsoft, VUDU, Fandango etc. all fill the "digital ownership" niche nicely. Are they objectively worse movies? Sure. But they are turning out massive profits especially in a world where movie theaters no longer exist.

The fact is, digital media delivery is convenient and cheap. It's the one-two punch that will absolutely get rid of physical game releases as anything other than a novelty in due time.
 

ReBurn

Member
Dec 6, 2008
12,120
2,569
1,240
SC USA
Everyone always says that they buy new consoles for new games. Maybe it was us that killed the used game industry.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: DunDunDunpachi

DunDunDunpachi

Patient MembeR
Apr 18, 2018
29,287
70,020
1,375
USA
dunpachi.com
You see it already, publishers don't print physical copies for Xbox, just Switch and PS. Microsoft has conditioned their fanbase to go 100% digital. And with Gamepass, sales numbers are dwindling fast. Imagine a future that consists of only digital storefronts and GaaS games.
If you don't mind can you give examples of the bolded? I didn't realize this was already taking place.
 

Rhazer Fusion

Member
May 2, 2006
10,721
2,061
1,510
In my own world.
m.youtube.com
I think it depends on what’s exactly coming to Gamepass, but yeah I think it will make a difference in the used games market somewhat. I can DEFINITELY see Microsoft first party games being affected the most by this.
 

Flying Toaster

Gold Member
Apr 7, 2011
10,142
1,026
1,050
I think it will greatly reduce current and next generation (the one coming in Novembers) used game market. I do not see the 360 and Xbox OG market being negatively affected.
 

Bernd Lauert

Gold Member
Apr 15, 2018
1,786
4,938
530
Primarily being a PC gamer, I don't care much about physical games. The physical market has been dead for like 10+ years on PC now. And yet the industry is booming. I wouldn't worry too much about an all-digital future. Sucks for retailers though, but retail is a dying breed anyway.
 

Tesseract

Crushed by Thanos
Dec 7, 2008
61,175
69,140
1,875
Primarily being a PC gamer, I don't care much about physical games. The physical market has been dead for like 10+ years on PC now. And yet the industry is booming. I wouldn't worry too much about an all-digital future. Sucks for retailers though, but retail is a dying breed anyway.
17 years

 
Last edited:
  • Fire
Reactions: DonJuanSchlong

mikefrails

Banned
Nov 11, 2015
2,160
444
570
The time that goes into getting a physical disc and selling it later - I’d rather just pay slightly more and get the download.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Mr. Nobody

KO7

Member
Jul 20, 2020
149
186
275
I’ll still mostly get disc games for the AAA titles I’m iffy about. I’ve sold/traded in way too many games as a way to recoup some costs for me to be on board with a digital-only library for my upcoming Series X.
 

Warablo

Member
May 15, 2013
2,512
542
650
Gamefly still exists, but everything else I buy digital. Even if the disc version is ultra cheap. Just easier and future proof for backwards compatible.
 

Azurro

Member
Jun 11, 2018
1,874
3,249
420
If it becomes very, very successful and becomes what MS hopes it to be and all games are eventually on it, then yes, of course, since not one Game pass user actually owns any games to sell to others.
 
Nov 2, 2019
385
401
315
Here are a couple of comments I noticed on the Steam forums that are probably relevant here:

I work for Microsoft and the first thing to be aware of to understand this acquisition is that consumption is a KPI by which all Microsoft staff are incentivised.

The reason for this acquisition is to boost the value and appeal of Game Pass, not XBox. Microsoft long ago realised they no longer have the luxury of controlling the device choice, hence why we make the O365 experience as uniform as it can be across PC, Mac, iOS and Android. We have applied this same thinking to gaming. Instead of Microsoft accepting only having the Xbox slice of the pie, they want the whole thing, and the way to get that is by offering a good value subscription service that is accessible from as many devices as possible. If the service delivers real value and is highly accessible on many platforms, we will experience increased consumption of that service.

We no longer care specifically about selling hardware because we make a loss and only see hardware as a conduit by which customers access our paid for services. We care about what we can control and monetise: i.e. the service and the point by which a user interacts with this, so we now attempt to own the subscription and abstract this from the endpoint.

So games will be Game Pass first, not console.

and

Yes. Microsoft are aware that the XBox Series X/S is likely the last Xbox, because by the end of its lifecycle, cloud gaming and mobile device capability will have evolved to such a point that a dedicated console for games will be as redundant as a dedicated CD player is for music.

When Microsoft missed the mobile device paradigm it hurt them very badly to the point they became nearly irrelevant. But that wake up call invigorated them and Microsoft realise that the cloud paradigm is in fact the one worth shaping, so everything we do is about creating valuable cloud services and driving adoption. Sure, Game Pass is about more than cloud today because we still have dedicated consoles and high performance PCs, but there's no reason for that to be the case in 5 years, the same as we no longer have dedicated on-prem high performance Exchange servers.

So by making Game Pass a one-stop shop for gaming, Microsoft are ready to leverage - and to drive - the cloud gaming paradigm.

Does her really work for Microsoft? Who knows? Who cares? But it is interesting reading these words because it makes me look at things from a different perspective.

 
  • LOL
Reactions: Stuart360

Claus Grimhildyr

Vincit qui se vincit
Jan 30, 2018
5,700
10,261
910
Honestly the reason I still buy Xbox is because of the physical games (and I often find these physical games cheaper than digital, thanks to clearances, used games, and more). I do think that there will be less used games in general for the Xbox, butI don't think that it will mean the death of physical for the system, new or used. I feel that it will become much like music and film have become - a niche market with lower print runs.

There is a clear and growing market for physical releases and trying to remove them entirely would be a painfully stupid move that Xbox learned at the start of this past gen. Options are good and that is what I believe MS will continue to offer. You want to play digitally? Physically? Want a subscription? Want to buy just this one game? Want to play on a console? On PC? On mobile? I love this mindset. There is no good reason to remove an option and cut out a good portion of customers.

And lets be honest, if film and music still release physically - there is zero chance that Gaming, a much younger medium, would cut out physical.
 
Last edited:

Clear

Deer/Dur
Feb 2, 2009
11,999
6,560
1,365
If more titles are digitally distributed then supply in the aftermarket will be cut, prices (for both trade-in and resale) will stay higher for longer, its going to change things significantly.
 

Guileless

Temp Banned for Remedial Purposes
Jun 7, 2004
10,065
1,566
1,925
Memphis
When I was like 12, my mom took me to the store and I rented Double Dragon on the NES and the instruction booklet reeked of cigarette smoke. Put me off used games for the rest of my life. On the rare occasion I have bought a used game out of necessity, I always imagine what disgusting person owned the game before me.
 
  • Thoughtful
Reactions: DunDunDunpachi

Aladin

Member
Jul 26, 2020
370
443
280
This is where competition is important. Trading used digital game copies should be a thing.
 

DrScissorsMD

Banned
Apr 3, 2020
484
952
405
Yeah, Xbox is the one who could use a $399 discless version of the Series X, not PS5.

I'll probably never buy a game for my Series X, so I would have opted for the digital version. I want physical media for my PS5.

And I definitely don't want that Series S.
Possibly a missed opportunity by MS. I can only imagine given they were already releasing two consoles selling three was a bridge too far, even if it was just a modified SX. I reckon it might’ve been a bit redundant price wise next to SS as well; Sony are obviously not saving $100 from the removal of the disc reader and it’s as much a pricing choice. In an ideal world I guess SS doesn’t exist and both sides had a $500 main and $400 digital but hard to say how well MS chasing the casual market will go for them.
 

reinking

Member
Jun 1, 2020
763
958
385
I don't know. Used games survived Blockbuster and every other rental store back in the day. Some people still like to own the game and not rent it regardless of it being on a service or a disk. I will admit though, the XBSX is going to be my Game Pass machine. I usually buy Xbox consoles for their first party. Now that all of those come to Game Pass and they continue to expand their studio I am not sure I will actually purchase a game for it.
 
Jan 24, 2020
152
352
355
Well the 2nd hand game market is basically just GameStop and they're not going to last much longer anyway so used games are basically dead outside of ebay.

With the premise in the OP I guess you could say that's going to hurt Sony a lot more than it will hurt MS since PS only players will really have no choice but to pay full price for games.
 

Sub Boss

Member
Mar 6, 2013
21,847
1,592
715
Honestly the reason I still buy Xbox is because of the physical games (and I often find these physical games cheaper than digital, thanks to clearances, used games, and more). I do think that there will be less used games in general for the Xbox, butI don't think that it will mean the death of physical for the system, new or used. I feel that it will become much like music and film have become - a niche market with lower print runs.

There is a clear and growing market for physical releases and trying to remove them entirely would be a painfully stupid move that Xbox learned at the start of this past gen. Options are good and that is what I believe MS will continue to offer. You want to play digitally? Physically? Want a subscription? Want to buy just this one game? Want to play on a console? On PC? On mobile? I love this mindset. There is no good reason to remove an option and cut out a good portion of customers.

And lets be honest, if film and music still release physically - there is zero chance that Gaming, a much younger medium, would cut out physical.
It may be in danger of getting smaller and smaller more quickly if companies are constantly pushing for Digital only, like the PS5 $399 DE or the XSS that can't even play physical copies there is no longer choice of that unless you pay for the less price friendly options

Before it meant that ALL consoles could play physical media regardless of size or pfice
 
Last edited:

Torrent of Pork

Gold Member
Aug 29, 2018
3,956
8,153
600
35
Bartow, Florida, USA
I'll be honest, I'm getting a Series X with no intention of ever buying a physical disc.

GP, the ability to wait for deep sales, and the odd full-price purchase such as Cyberpunk got me through this entire gen. The only physical media I've bought in years are Switch carts.
 
The used game industry still exists? Could have fooled me, felt like it's been dead long ago. It's been years since I bought a physical copy and considering game stores are going the way of the dodo it's surprising to see people still think used game sales are alive.
I suppose gamepass will put the final nail in the coffin, physical just feels archaic now.
I can understand collector's editions but the lame plastic case no manual crap we get now I'm not sure I'll really miss it.
 

Stuart360

Member
Sep 9, 2018
7,321
16,459
600
Retail game stores are on their last legs, and i'm 99% certain this is the last gen with a disk drive anyway, so may as well get used to it.
 

aries_71

Junior Member
Aug 26, 2007
914
927
1,195
49
So media supports for the movie and music industries is basically dead, but this will be different for the game industry, right?
 

Sushen

Member
Aug 24, 2007
2,343
96
1,185
Gamepass games are not your games though, it is like ps+! Stop paying the subscription and you have no games.
Physical media still isn't going any where.
That's been the idea all along but to be honest I have also been chasing next shiny thing and almost never went back for more than an hour or less to get the old feeling. I don't think I need to own any games once I move onto next games to play.
 

D.Final

Banned
Oct 18, 2018
5,111
2,771
620
Poll included for those who wish to weigh in with a vote.

Game Pass hands out digital games to subscribers, and also offers discounted digital copies to subscribers who want to own a copy. Physical, however, is left in the cold. You're paying full price.

Microsoft is aggressively changing the price structure of the industry, making it too expensive for The Other Guys to sell their games at a profitable price. But moreso than buying full-priced games, this is a move against retail games. Microsoft wants to set the price and dole out the ownership. They want you on Game Pass moreso than they want you on Xbox hardware, and they've repeated this multiple times. The unspoken desire is to get you on a digital collection instead of printing those pesky videogame discs so that you can own the game yourself. Pushing everything into GaaS format makes physical discs even less desirable.

I could be way off, but I don't foresee Xbox series S/X games holding on to a lot of shelf space after the next 2 years. Physical games won't sell because it will be the most expensive way to buy games on the Xbox. Low physical sales means publishers and retailers are less likely to put out more physical copies for future games, and used-game shops are not as likely to devote shelf space to them. Give it a few years and you'll have a lot of Xboxes sold but not a lot of physical games out in the wild to be sold back to secondhand stores.

I don't necessarily think this is a bad way to go about it, by the way. It's better to attract your customers to something else instead of cutting it out and dealing with their anger.

Maybe
But surely not the only
 

cireza

Member
Jun 1, 2014
7,677
5,944
700
Indeed.

If you are the kind of person willing to sell your game after having completed it, then just play the game on Game Pass.
Otherwise, buy it digitally.

Second hand games cannot exist in such a system, but as a consumer, it does not affect me one bit.
 

DavidGzz

Gold Member
Jan 7, 2018
2,224
2,576
615
I was surprised that Game Stop didn't force me to buy some games with my pre-order of the XSX.
 

wolffy71

Member
Feb 19, 2014
607
558
555
Like you can still buy games even tho you have gp. And like you even still own the game even if its digital. Buy it, download it, delete it, and redownload it. Dont need physical media anymore. I havent bought a disc since... black ops 2? Maybe im forgetting one idk.
 

Memorabilia

Member
Oct 25, 2013
4,799
605
595
Yeah, Xbox is the one who could use a $399 discless version of the Series X, not PS5.

I'll probably never buy a game for my Series X, so I would have opted for the digital version. I want physical media for my PS5.

And I definitely don't want that Series S.

🤦‍♂️