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Everybody is trowing the word racist around without thinking about what that means.

BibiMaghoo

Member
I think in a racial context that discrimination is the act, prejudice the preconception of those acts, but racism is the system of belief they both stem from. The rise in people naming things as actually racist is simply being reductive with the argument, addressing the primary cause without the smaller parts of the argument. I don't think that actually unfair either.
 

Dunki

Member
just don't be racist if you don't want to be called a racist. how is this so hard for you racists?

As people said before because these days everything is deemed as racist by a certain minor group of people who is very vocal on the internet and social media and who tries everything to even get you fiored out of your job if you do not fit their views and opinions.

Example Apple Diversity Manager.
 

Relativ9

Member
"Just because I say racist things doesn't make me racist because I'm not saying them in a racist manner"

Why don't you try to actually quote me without changing my words, if you want to include some context that'd be great too. I never said that...
 

mr2xxx

Banned
So no one is racist OP? For someone who cares what words mean, you must of missed the bus for what "everyone" means.
 

Euphor!a

Banned
"Guys, guys, guys... I'm not racist, okay? I'm just deeply prejudiced and discriminatory, okay? It is super different and obviously not as bad, okay?"
 

nemoral

Banned
The vast majority of he world uses racist to mean those who engage in prejudicial or discriminatory behavior based on race or ethnicity. Finding a definition that doesn't include that doesn't change that. And you can shout until you're blue in the face that you're not racist when you behave this way, and we're going to keep pointing out that you're wrong, and you're a racist piece of shit.

You're not going to convince the world that your behavior is fine because you didn't explicitly state that other races are inferior to you. Prejudice and discrimination based on race implicitly make that clear, because you're treating some races worse than others, which means you don't find them to be of equal value.

If it hurts your feelings, good. It's supposed to. It's our way of telling you you're a regressive fuckpig and you need to get your shit straightened out.
 

Relativ9

Member
just don't be racist if you don't want to be called a racist. how is this so hard for you racists?

"Guys, guys, guys... I'm not racist, okay? I'm just deeply prejudiced and discriminatory, okay? It is super different and obviously not as bad, okay?"

The vast majority of he world uses racist to mean those who engage in prejudicial or discriminatory behavior based on race or ethnicity. Finding a definition that doesn't include that doesn't change that. And you can shout until you're blue in the face that you're not racist when you behave this way, and we're going to keep pointing out that you're wrong, and you're a racist piece of shit.

You're not going to convince the world that your behavior is fine because you didn't explicitly state that other races are inferior to you. Prejudice and discrimination based on race implicitly make that clear, because you're treating some races worse than others, which means you don't find them to be of equal value.

If it hurts your feelings, good. It's supposed to. It's our way of telling you you're a regressive fuckpig and you need to get your shit straightened out.

So the term racist is now apparently so broad that it includes anyone who doesn't agree that it should be used so liberally regardless of their actual opinions, statements or actions on race and racial issues?

It's ironic how a lot of you seem to have identified me as part of some group and pre-judge me based on that. I've never said anything even remotely racist in this or any other thread, hold no racists opinions, don't support any racist legislation and haven't voted for any racist politicians and actually vehemently oppose them as often as I can. Yet apparently I'm a racist because I don't agree with the overuse and over labeling of other people as racist without sufficient evidence.

This us vs them mentality leaves very little room for nuance and/or middle ground. When you call someone who said something prejudice you're more likely to make them combative and cause them to further entrench themselves into their position than you are to make them see how what they did was prejudicial and help them better themselves (and by extension the world). But it almost seems like you aren't interested in actually making the situation better, you'd rather maximise your moral superiority while giving yourself license to behave abhorrently towards them. When you label someone racists you dehumanize them and legitimise violence and personal attacks against them as okey (Antifa). Ironically this is exactly what racists do. If you think you aren't guilty of that. Go back in the history of this thread or any other thread I've taken part in and see if you can find an example of me using personal attacks or insults against anyone I've debated (spoiler alert: you can't). Then look at the last post I've quoted above or any of the countless other posts by various users on this forum in various threads where someone has disagreed with a political opinion and be called racists and a piece of shit in response.

I'm not denying that there are people with prejudicial, discriminatory or even in somewhat rarer cases racist views on this site, I think there certainly are. But at no point have I expressed agreement or sympathy towards these views. All I've done is question whether we should really be comparing someone who crosses the street when black people walk by with someone who seeks to violently persecute or exterminate them. But hey, I guess that makes me a racist.
 
I mean you keep responding to statements addressed to racists, so at some point you've got to wonder why all these people are getting the wrong impression about you.
 

Relativ9

Member
no, that makes them racist

are you dense?


Well it sure seemed like they were referring to me and/or other people who have made innocuous statements in this thread that they disagreed with. If not then I apologize but you can see why I'd think so...


What basis do you have for calling me a racist?
"Just because I say racist things doesn't make me racist because I'm not saying them in a racist manner"

...which I never said.
 

Alx

Member
Saying "Japanese makes the best sushi" isn't racist. Because Japanese as a group/culture have an affinity for sushi than other groups/culture, hence the probability of Japanese being the best sushi is quite high.

Also, saying "on average, men are physically stronger than women" isn't sexist but lots of people will find it sexist. It is the whole equality agenda that's creates political correctness. These days, facts are offensive.

That's true. Although in the end the issue comes from the fact that people don't know how to use statistics. I always say that prejudice is applying a statistic to an individual. Because a trend is statistically observable doesn't mean it's ok to judge people based on it.
"There are more skilled sushi chefs among the Japanese" = not racist.
"Nah don't go eat there, the chef isn't even Japanese" = racist.
"Men are stronger on average" = not sexist.
"You're a woman, you must be weaker than Bob" = sexist.

The way we describe statistics also helps create a racist (or sexist, ageist,...) bias. "Japanese are better at sushi" already implies a generalization on ethnicity. "Russians are good at chess" is wrong, it's actually "Russians have a larger amount of good chess players".
 

Relativ9

Member
That's true. Although in the end the issue comes from the fact that people don't know how to use statistics. I always say that prejudice is applying a statistic to an individual. Because a trend is statistically observable doesn't mean it's ok to judge people based on it.
"There are more skilled sushi chefs among the Japanese" = not racist.
"Nah don't go eat there, the chef isn't even Japanese" = racist.
"Men are stronger on average" = not sexist.
"You're a woman, you must be weaker than Bob" = sexist.

The way we describe statistics also helps create a racist (or sexist, ageist,...) bias. "Japanese are better at sushi" already implies a generalization on ethnicity. "Russians are good at chess" is wrong, it's actually "Russians have a larger amount of good chess players".

Agreed, and these are incredibly important distinctions that seem to cause a lot of drama on this forum when they aren't made properly.
 

DorkyMohr

Banned
lemme amend my statement:

when you're being racist, u don't get to be mad about being called a racist. why is dis so hard 2 understand for racists?
 

Dunki

Member
lemme amend my statement:

when you're being racist, u don't get to be mad about being called a racist. why is dis so hard 2 understand for racists?

No one is arguing against this. HOWEVER The term racist has broaden so much these days because everything people do not agree on is called racist.

If you believe that a person based on his race is more superior in general than another race that is called racist. This is the barebone definition of the word. And this goes for everyone. So if someone says that black people are better artists because they are black, then I would call this racist. If I as a White person wear Braids because I think its cool then its not racist.

The moment you bring superiority in it and generalize it on a whole race it becomes racist and needs to be called out.
 

Euphor!a

Banned
So the term racist is now apparently so broad that it includes anyone who doesn't agree that it should be used so liberally regardless of their actual opinions, statements or actions on race and racial issues?

It's ironic how a lot of you seem to have identified me as part of some group and pre-judge me based on that. I've never said anything even remotely racist in this or any other thread, hold no racists opinions, don't support any racist legislation and haven't voted for any racist politicians and actually vehemently oppose them as often as I can. Yet apparently I'm a racist because I don't agree with the overuse and over labeling of other people as racist without sufficient evidence.

This us vs them mentality leaves very little room for nuance and/or middle ground. When you call someone who said something prejudice you're more likely to make them combative and cause them to further entrench themselves into their position than you are to make them see how what they did was prejudicial and help them better themselves (and by extension the world). But it almost seems like you aren't interested in actually making the situation better, you'd rather maximise your moral superiority while giving yourself license to behave abhorrently towards them. When you label someone racists you dehumanize them and legitimise violence and personal attacks against them as okey (Antifa). Ironically this is exactly what racists do. If you think you aren't guilty of that. Go back in the history of this thread or any other thread I've taken part in and see if you can find an example of me using personal attacks or insults against anyone I've debated (spoiler alert: you can't). Then look at the last post I've quoted above or any of the countless other posts by various users on this forum in various threads where someone has disagreed with a political opinion and be called racists and a piece of shit in response.

I'm not denying that there are people with prejudicial, discriminatory or even in somewhat rarer cases racist views on this site, I think there certainly are. But at no point have I expressed agreement or sympathy towards these views. All I've done is question whether we should really be comparing someone who crosses the street when black people walk by with someone who seeks to violently persecute or exterminate them. But hey, I guess that makes me a racist.

"Guys, no, you misunderstood. I am not racist, prejudiced, or discriminatory. Okay, got it? I am just defending those who are. There is nothing wrong with them, it is just a different perspective, okay?"
 
This thread is an example of all that quality over quantity people here like to preach about right? And thank god we are free to express opinions that racism isn’t really that bad without getting dogpiled. What an improvement!
 

Euphor!a

Banned
This thread is an example of all that quality over quantity people here like to preach about right? And thank god we are free to express opinions that racism isn't really that bad without getting dogpiled. What an improvement!

Have you not been paying attention? It is not racism. It is only prejudice and discrimination, so it is okay.
 
This thread is an example of all that quality over quantity people here like to preach about right? And thank god we are free to express opinions that racism isn’t really that bad without getting dogpiled. What an improvement!
The quality of the discussion takes a huge dive everytime someone decides to post something similar to what you just did. What's the fucking point? Just don't post anything if you can't add anything to the discussion. It's what I try to do.
 

Euphor!a

Banned
The quality of the discussion takes a huge dive everytime someone decides to post something similar to what you just did. What's the fucking point? Just don't post anything if you can't add anything to the discussion. It's what I try to do.

When the quality of the discussion starts at defending and minimizing racism, there is nowhere for it to go but up.
 

Euphor!a

Banned
Your posts in this thread tell a very different story.

It's a shame there's still some stragglers trying to shut down discussions because they disagree with the premise.

The premise is that using racist to describe someone being discriminatory or prejudiced is wrong, that isn't worth a serious discussion.
 

Relativ9

Member
I think we understand just fine.

No, you really don't.

The premise is that using racist to describe someone being discriminatory or prejudiced is wrong, that isn't worth a serious discussion.

The premise is that if you attack someone who might be otherwise reasonable or simply hold a misinformed opinion with vitriol and hate, they're likely to respond with vitriol and hate instead of "seeing the light".

The premise is that if we don't differentiate the language we use to refer to these things then we dehumanize and legitimise doing exactly that; treating everyone who doesn't agree with us 100% with hate and vitriol. Next thing you know Antifa is beating people up in streets, becoming the very thing they hate.

The premise is that it's useful to have words that describe true horrors be associated with true horrors, not also micro-aggressions and prejudice. I'll go back to my original example, did you have grandparents who weren't as enlightened about racial issues as you? I bet they were real scummy pieces of shit that you spat on as you passed them by huh?
 

Euphor!a

Banned
No, you really don't.



The premise is that if you attack someone who might be otherwise reasonable or simply hold a misinformed opinion with vitriol and hate, they're likely to respond with vitriol and hate instead of "seeing the light".

The premise is that if we don't differentiate the language we use to refer to these things then we dehumanize and legitimise doing exactly that; treating everyone who doesn't agree with us 100% with hate and vitriol. Next thing you know Antifa is beating people up in streets, becoming the very thing they hate.

The premise is that it's useful to have words that describe true horrors be associated with true horrors, not also micro-aggressions and prejudice. I'll go back to my original example, did you have grandparents who weren't as enlightened about racial issues as you? I bet they were real scummy pieces of shit that you spat on as you passed them by huh?

Yes, I have a racist grandparent. They are still racist regardless. Your problem is you want to dress things up instead of stripping them down. Nothing meaningful comes from obfuscating language, which is what you are doing, to make shitty people feel better about their opinions.
 

Relativ9

Member
Yes, I have a racist grandparent. They are still racist regardless. Your problem is you want to dress things up instead of stripping them down. Nothing meaningful comes from obfuscating language, which is what you are doing, to make shitty people feel better about their opinions.

Couldn't be to have a conversation that's actually fruitful and not just a screaming match? Everything has to be a conspiracy theory?
 

Dunki

Member
Yes, I have a racist grandparent. They are still racist regardless. Your problem is you want to dress things up instead of stripping them down. Nothing meaningful comes from obfuscating language, which is what you are doing, to make shitty people feel better about their opinions.

stripping them down of what? And even if you make the jobless, homeless etc do you really think their opinion will change? Do you really think doing this will not in fact strengthen their view? If you stripe people of everything they have do you really believe they will not react? If you hit people in the cae do you really beleive everyone will just go away? And not defend themselves even with weapons? Do you really think they will just die in a corner? Do you want them to die in the first place?

These meassures will only reasult in more hate and more racism.
 

Euphor!a

Banned
stripping them down of what? And even if you make the jobless, homeless etc do you really think their opinion will change? Do you really think doing this will not in fact strengthen their view? If you stripe people of everything they have do you really beleive they will not ract? Do you really think they will jsut die in a corner? Do you want them to die in the first place?

These meassures will only reasult in more hate and more racism.

You are thinking way too literally, it was a metaphor about how he is treating language. Not about people.
 

Dunki

Member
You are thinking way too literally, it was a metaphor about how he is treating language. Not about people.

In the other thread you juut said you would be ok with violence was this also a metaphor? No I know exactly want you meant with this. You want them to vanish from society but without violence this will not happen at all. Thats why I said you need to coexist.
 

Euphor!a

Banned
In the other thread you juut said you would be ok with violence was this also a metaphor? No I know exactly want you meant with this. You want them to vanish from society but without violence this will not happen at all. Thats why I said you need to coexist.

You clearly did not know exactly what I meant with this since you started talking about stripping people of their homes and jobs.
 
And even if you make them jobless, homeless etc do you really think their opinion will change? Do you really think doing this will not in fact strengthen their view? If you strip people of everything they have do you really believe they will not react?
Why would we care?


Do you really think they will just die in a corner? Do you want them to die in the first place?
(shrug)

These meassures will only reasult in more hate and more racism.
Racism isn't going anywhere soon. Why bother with them at all?
 
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