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Experimental Ebola treatment was used on the two patients brought to the US

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FyreWulff

Member
Explains the situation further - not only would they want to try and save them, the CDC would be interested in closely monitoring the effects of the drug.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/04/health/experimental-ebola-serum/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

Three top secret, experimental vials stored at subzero temperatures were flown into Liberia last week in a last-ditch effort to save two American missionary workers who had contracted Ebola, according to a source familiar with details of the treatment.
On July 22, Dr. Kent Brantly woke up feeling feverish. Fearing the worst, Brantly immediately isolated himself. Nancy Writebol's symptoms started three days later. A rapid field blood test confirmed the infection in both of them after they had become ill with fever, vomiting and diarrhea.

It's believed both Brantly and Writebol, who worked with the aid organization Samaritan's Purse, contracted Ebola from another health care worker at their hospital in Liberia, although the official Centers for Disease Control and Prevention case investigation has yet to be released.

A representative from the National Institutes of Health contacted Samaritan's Purse in Liberia and offered the experimental treatment, known as ZMapp, for the two patients, according to the source.
The drug was developed by the biotech firm Mapp Biopharmaceutical Inc. The patients were told that this treatment had never been tried before in a human being but had shown promise in small experiments with monkeys.

Brantly asked that Writebol be given the first dose because he was younger and he thought he had a better chance of fighting it, and she agreed. However, as the first vial was still thawing, Brantley's condition took a sudden turn for the worse.
Brantly began to deteriorate and developed labored breathing. He told his doctors, "I am going to die," according to a source with firsthand knowledge of the situation.

Knowing his dose was still frozen, Brantly asked if he could have Writebol's now-thawed medication. It was brought to his room and administered through an IV. Within an hour of receiving the medication, Brantly's condition was nearly reversed. His breathing improved; the rash over his trunk faded away. One of his doctors described the events as "miraculous."

By the next morning, Brantly was able to take a shower on his own before getting on a specially designed Gulfstream air ambulance jet to be evacuated to the United States.
Writebol also received a vial of the medication. Her response was not as remarkable, according to sources familiar with the treatment. However, doctors on Sunday administered Writebol a second dose of the medication, which resulted in significant improvement.
She was stable enough to be evacuated back to the United States and is expected to arrive before noon Tuesday.
 
This could look bad, in Africa. There is already paranoia and ignorance about the virus and the aide workers have been blamed for the outbreak. Spin: Africans aren't worthy of the experimental treatment? Conspiracy: Cure for cancer being hidden.

Not the way to deploy new treatment.

The medicine is a three-mouse monoclonal antibody, meaning that mice were exposed to fragments of the Ebola virus and then the antibodies generated within the mice's blood were harvested to create the medicine. It works by preventing the virus from entering and infecting new cells.

Doesn't sound like its made in large batches either. Ethical question: who do you treat?
 
This could look bad, in Africa. There is already paranoia and ignorance about the virus and the aide workers have been blamed for the outbreak. Spin: Africans aren't worthy of the experimental treatment? Conspiracy: Cure for cancer being hidden.

Not the way to deploy new treatment.
R


Doesn't sound like its made in large batches either. Ethical question: who do you treat?
Probably Americans since they have the vaccine.
 

andycapps

Member
Good. Sounds like if this treatment continues to work that they'll hopefully be able to mass produce this and wipe this thing out (for now).
 

Starviper

Member
Wow, really great news to hear there's a treatment potentially on the verge of being available that's working. In situations like that, if you've already contracted the disease you may as well opt to take whatever experimental solution you can.
 
He stole her damn medicine! That son of a bitch~! :p

Awesome that treatment seems to be going well. I think a lot of the issues with the Ebola outbreak come from the hygiene issues in those areas, as well as ignorance about the disease. I thought that story about a family breaking in and stealing their Ebola infected family member out was a one-off; apparently it was not?

This could look bad, in Africa. There is already paranoia and ignorance about the virus and the aide workers have been blamed for the outbreak. Spin: Africans aren't worthy of the experimental treatment? Conspiracy: Cure for cancer being hidden.

Not the way to deploy new treatment.

Doesn't sound like its made in large batches either. Ethical question: who do you treat?

Yes it is. You deploy the experimental treatment in the most controlled environment possible, and if it works, deploy it elsewhere. You do not deploy it into the crisis zone immediately.
 

Pastry

Banned
This could look bad, in Africa. There is already paranoia and ignorance about the virus and the aide workers have been blamed for the outbreak. Spin: Africans aren't worthy of the experimental treatment? Conspiracy: Cure for cancer being hidden.

Not the way to deploy new treatment.



Doesn't sound like its made in large batches either. Ethical question: who do you treat?

Since it sounds like the drug is being developed for the military it'll only be given to Americans when it's at this experimental stage. I don't really have a problem with that, it hasn't passed any of the required tests yet. But it sounds like a promising drug since it worked on them.
 

sestrugen

Member
This could look bad, in Africa. There is already paranoia and ignorance about the virus and the aide workers have been blamed for the outbreak. Spin: Africans aren't worthy of the experimental treatment? Conspiracy: Cure for cancer being hidden.

Not the way to deploy new treatment.



Doesn't sound like its made in large batches either. Ethical question: who do you treat?

"Americans using untested drugs on Africans"
 

Mariolee

Member
I'm hoping for the best. I can't help but be cynical and think about the girl back a few months ago who thought she was cured but a few years later revealed that she wasn't and that the disease only went into a temporary remission.

Im sure they will thank god if they get healthy.

Let's not go there.
 
Since it sounds like the drug is being developed for the military it'll only be given to Americans when it's at this experimental stage. I don't really have a problem with that, it hasn't passed any of the required tests yet. But it sounds like a promising drug since it worked on them.

I dunno, if I know I'm already on the way out from Ebola, inject me with whatever shit you have.

I know this isn't feasible here in America, but why not have people who are dying from this opt in receiving it?
 

Pastry

Banned
I dunno, if I know I'm already on the way out from Ebola, inject me with whatever shit you have.

I know this isn't feasible here in America, but why not have people who are dying from this opt in receiving it?

I just think that's a slippery slope to go down. People dying in a developing country? Time to bust out our experimental drugs!
 

chris121580

Member
Im sure they will thank god if they get healthy.

What is the point of a post like this? What are you trying to prove? Just completely unnecessary.

This is awesome news that the meds are working so far! Hard to believe he's able to take a shower on his own. Hopefully they continue to improve
 

SpecX

Member
I dunno, if I know I'm already on the way out from Ebola, inject me with whatever shit you have.

I know this isn't feasible here in America, but why not have people who are dying from this opt in receiving it?

I doubt many people in Africa would opt in receiving this experimental drug if they already reject what's currently available for helping them recover.
 
I doubt many people in Africa would opt in receiving this experimental drug if they already reject what's currently available for helping them recover.

What is currently available to help them recover?

I just think that's a slippery slope to go down. People dying in a developing country? Time to bust out our experimental drugs!

The Majority of the world's countries are developing countries. Tier of country determines value of life?
 

E92 M3

Member
Hmm, this is similar to using a blood transfusion (used before for treatment) from patients that survived. Also, for the antibodies.

Immunobiology is one of my favorite sub-fields.

Cool stuff.
 

GaimeGuy

Volunteer Deputy Campaign Director, Obama for America '16
Yeah, but wait until social media in Sierra Leone and Liberia picks this up.

I'm not against it, I'm worried. I think it was handeled wrong, even if my faith is with the CDC.

This is how new treatments get introduced, though.

They start off as experimental. the results are analyzed. more research is done, and more testing is done. Eventually, we reach a stage where we have enough of a breakdown of the treatment and enough data to support it that it gets approval as a treatment for real
 

Pastry

Banned
What is currently available to help them recover?



Tier of country determines value of life?

Well considering it's a drug being developed by and for the U.S. military I don't think it's absurd to think the only want it used on U.S. citizens at the moment. You see no ethical issues in using completely untested drugs on foreign populations?
 

thefro

Member
What is currently available to help them recover?

Well, if they've never tried it on humans before they don't know if it's going to be even worse than ebola (i.e. kills 100% of people who take the drug). They need to study what the impacts are on humans to see if it works, how it works, what the dosage is, etc etc.

Also I presume it's pretty expensive and not mass-produced at this point. If this works they can start mass-producing it.
 

daveo42

Banned
Yeah, but wait until social media in Sierra Leone and Liberia picks this up.

I'm not against it, I'm worried. I think it was handeled wrong, even if my faith is with the CDC.

Think about the ramifications if it hadn't worked or did something else to those tested on. This drug is still experimental and while testing in monkeys worked, there would have been no way to be 100% certain that it would work in humans.

Edit: also this
This is how new treatments get introduced, though.

They start off as experimental. the results are analyzed. more research is done, and more testing is done. Eventually, we reach a stage where we have enough of a breakdown of the treatment and enough data to support it that it gets approval as a treatment for real
 
This is how new treatments get introduced, though.

They start off as experimental. the results are analyzed. more research is done, and more testing is done. Eventually, we reach a stage where we have enough of a breakdown of the treatment and enough data to support it that it gets approval as a treatment for real
Then it went through the normal process for human trials?
http://www.fda.gov/ScienceResearch/SpecialTopics/RunningClinicalTrials/
Why didn't they try it on any African people?

Issue with top secret stuff like that going out-of Country or transporting it was an issue in this early stage of testing, it was frozen so probably not the latter. Need all the instrumentation to monitor the recovery too, in a biocontainment facility. [delivered in Liberia...]

How long are these patients going to be in quarentine? Months? Years?


edit: need rest.
 
This is pretty much how modern medicine should work. That said, we should study their reactions to the serum and how the virus behaves thoroughly. Additionally, things could still get worse for them...who knows.
 

thefit

Member
Why didn't they administer it to the African doctor that died? They did fly the drug to Africa I'm sure he would have been ok with it in the name of science.
 
Reminds me of 2009 when the first Ebola vaccine ever was used on a german patient: http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/c...ccine-used-after-german-lab-accident-1.827949 AFAIK it never was proven that the patient really was infected with Ebola though. But this case already showed how 'easy' it is for a specific group of people to get an experimental treatment.

But I'm not blaming the pharmaceutical industry or scientist for not using experimental treatments in Africa so far. There are too many legal obstacles and most Africans don't trust doctors.

A treatment could be approved by the FDA on a ‘compassionate use’ basis, but that process would have to mesh with a host country’s rules. “A country has to request these things; it’s not something we can force on them,” says Gene Olinger, a virologist at the contract research organization MRIGlobal in Frederick, Maryland. “We have to follow their internal policies for drug development and for testing.”
http://www.nature.com/news/ebola-treatments-caught-in-limbo-1.15634

But the organizations fighting Ebola on the ground say they simply can't bring an untested, unlicensed drug to a population that's already distrustful of the teams trying to stamp out the outbreak. “Some people are throwing stones at us,” says Armand Sprecher, a public health specialist at the Brussels office of Doctors Without Borders. “There are rumors that we are spreading disease, harvesting organs, and other horrible things. Bringing in unlicensed things to experiment on people could be very counterproductive.” A representative for the World Health Organization (WHO) adds that using vaccines now “would not be ethical, feasible, or wise.”
http://www.sciencemag.org/content/345/6195/364.summary?rss=1

Time to trust those experts.
 
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