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fake gaffers play super mario rpg
- Thread starter Teasel
- Start date
Amir0x said:
A month ban for that? Ouch.
I'd love to join in on the festivities, but unfortunately can't. In my foolish younger years I tried playing this via emulation but playing on a computer sucks, so I've never played this game. Been holding out for a VC release pretty much since the VC was announced though...!
Mithos Yggdrasill
Banned
fake gaffers ?
Keru_Shiri
Member
Don't get me wrong, I loved the Paper Marios to death, but Mario RPG was a classic. A huge cast of incredible villains, and interesting not-to-simple battle system, awesome locations (I'm guessing the haters never made it to Booster Tower), and the plot was actually farily interesting (for it's time).
Keru_Shiri
Member
ummm... congratulations?Amir0x said:
Keru_Shiri
Member
Well, I was expecting since you beat the game, that maybe you could back up your opinion a little bit? Instead of just shitting all over it.Amir0x said:
A Link to the Past
Banned
Christopher said:
See, that's exactly why people hate SMRPG. If it wasn't credited as being revolutionary, innovative, or doing something new, I'd have less problems with it. But people DO. People act as if there's something that SMRPG did that's absolutely amazing, but that'd be Paper Mario and Mario & Luigi. Super Mario RPG lacks the atmosphere of those two titles, as well as the innovation.
But anyway, there should be a thread made specifically for debating SMRPG vs. other Mario RPGs, and let this one be.
It was released towards the end of SNES' life cycle and thus, was overshadowed the PSX and N64 (as well as Chrono Trigger). If anything, SMRPG deserves more love for providing simple but entertaining gameplay combined with quirky characters and a humorous plot.A Link to the Snitch said:
Keru_Shiri said:
Well that's different.
Super Mario RPG was like taking everything that is bad about SquareEnix RPGs, and removing everything that is good about Mario games, and then releasing that product. The non-Mario character designs are ugly and uninspired, to say the least. The main boss is a ridiculous hammer wielding nothing named Smitty, and his main minion is a GIANT FUCKING SWORD. What the fuck does a giant sword have to do with Mario?
The battle system is shallow and completely unstrategic. The new Paper Mario games allow for far more flexibility and still manage to be far more streamlined in the process. The story is retarded. I mean, super retarded. Like, Harry Potter fanfic retarded. Like, Harry Potter Hermione-turned-into-a-furry fanfic retarded.
The graphics which admittedly impressed a lot of people at the time, to me always smacked as nasty looking... the rendering technique SquareEnix used was simply unattractive for me. The art designs of everything didn't help this fact.
The perspective made jumping on the field in angled directions imprecise (eventually one can become good at it, but this is Mario), and the actual construction of the varying dungeons were all boring. I didn't find any of them fun.
Paper Mario games are so much better. So, so much better.
Keru_Shiri
Member
What did Paper Mario do that was so innovative? It had clever writing, and the graphic style was unique, but the combat system was a step backwards, and the overworld was the same as many other games of it's time (central hub, 6 or 7 worlds branching out, star piece at the end with a boss waiting). Plus the enemies just weren't as memorable as RPG. Sure, the Shy Guy toybox army was bad ass, but RPG had the Axem Rangers, Booster, Croco, Boshi, J.Jones, each with their own quirk and fighting style.A Link to the Snitch said:
A Link to the Past
Banned
Keru_Shiri said:
The fact that each enemy is not just a different design and stat-setup?
Flying enemies require different tactics, spiked enemies require different tactics, flying spiked enemies require a really different tactic. Fire actually is taken into account, as are ice and poison. Paper Mario introduced interactivity that Mario RPG never accomplished on the overworld. Actual platforming, real puzzles, the hammer, partners that are actually useful out of battle, the badge system, etc.
Keru_Shiri
Member
Alright, sorry for the initial animosity, now on to the discussion. 
I guess ugly is subjective, but unispired? Most of the villains had interesting and unique designs, with a unified theme: they were weapons. Plus the giant sword plunging in Bowser's castle looked pretty damn cool, and the fight with it was just plain awesome. Plus, is it so wrong to have non-traditional enemies in a Mario game? Many people complain when it's the same old stuff but in a different package, but Square gave us all of the normal Mario enemies, plus an assload more.Amir0x said:
I'd say RPG's system was deeper than Paper's. Paper was a simplified version, with easy single digit math, it had the same *controller input for added effect* that RPG had (though it did add a few things to this, I will admit) plus I like having two allies on the field at once.
It's one of the few 3d games that's aged well, but everything else is subjective, so we'll have to agree to disagree. Like I said before, I liked that the villains had a unified theme, but still varied from each one.
While I agree that the isometric view was a pain at first, I don't think this really hurt the game any. Even if the angling was tricky, it allowed for some interesting puzzles (Land's End for example) that took advantage of this. Plus it made the shipwreck puzzles more challenging as well.
Keru_Shiri
Member
Elements are taken into account in RPG as well. As well as enemies that are immune to jump attacks. A lot of the things you mentioned RPG brought to the table first, and granted, Paper did expand on a lot of those things, to say that RPG did nothing is just plain wrong. Paper did do some innovative stuff on it's own (such as partners used in the overworld), but you'd be foolish to miss some of the obvious influences RPG had on it's N64 follow-up.A Link to the Snitch said:
A Link to the Past
Banned
Keru_Shiri said:
It had timing from Mario RPG, that was Mario RPG's critical hit.
How many enemies are immune to jumps? I recall maybe, two? And both of them are the same species, right?
Paper Mario actually used weapons and attacks strategically - Hell, I never ONCE strategized my attacks in Mario RPG, and I beat it. Throughout the game, you have to constantly utilize you and your partners' attacks - if you've got a flying spiked enemy, you need Parakarry's shell launching attack - same with poison, ice, or fire (which Sushie can be used against). In SMRPG, all partners did was wrack up damage. In Paper Mario, you couldn't possibly make it without them.
Keru_Shiri
Member
Strategy in Paper often boiled down to- enemies with spikes, i'll need a hammer; or flying enemies with spikes, I'll need Parakarry. Strategy in RPG was a bit more subtle. Sure you could just pile on the damage, but a lot of the fights (especially the bosses) required some kind of strategy to make things a lot easier, such as reflecting than attacking Birdo's eggs, or figuring out the best order to defeat the Axem Rangers.A Link to the Snitch said:
A Link to the Past
Banned
Keru_Shiri said:
...No, see, you're thinking of SMRPG when you're thinking of "lacking in strategy." "Oh, a Grim Creaper? DAMAGE. Johnny? DAMAGE. Goomba? DAMAGE."
Paper Mario not only has to have the perfect partner for any situation (such as Bow's ability to hide Mario), but the perfect badge setup, a concept SMRPG had - but only limited to three equipments.
Amirox =
err... anyway,i don't see why you can't enjoy both super mario rpg and paper mario,both game are standard rpg with clever writing and that's about it... i would say that paper mario does the "press button at the right moment" more essential and friendly to the player but then
mario & luigi does it even better
i also don't understand nitch point... are you saying super mario rpg would have been better if there was an enemy that only could be damaged by geno? i don't see how that count as a strategy when you are talking about strategy you are talking about choosing a certain option instead of the other one and in all the example you made,you have only a single option because all the other one are wrong
err... anyway,i don't see why you can't enjoy both super mario rpg and paper mario,both game are standard rpg with clever writing and that's about it... i would say that paper mario does the "press button at the right moment" more essential and friendly to the player but then
mario & luigi does it even better
i also don't understand nitch point... are you saying super mario rpg would have been better if there was an enemy that only could be damaged by geno? i don't see how that count as a strategy when you are talking about strategy you are talking about choosing a certain option instead of the other one and in all the example you made,you have only a single option because all the other one are wrong
Keru_Shiri
Member
Like I said, you could respond to every enemy with damage, or you could use strategy to make things easier. Grim Reaper = Damage, or should I go ahead and use this pure water on him?, Johnny= should I use this turn to heal, or do keep attacking? Goomba = Oh come on, you fight him the same way in every damn mario game, Paper is no different.A Link to the Snitch said:
A Link to the Past
Banned
Keru_Shiri said:Like I said, you could respond to every enemy with damage, or you could use strategy to make things easier. Grim Reaper = Damage, or should I go ahead and use this pure water on him?, Johnny= should I use this turn to heal, or do keep attacking? Goomba = Oh come on, you fight him the same way in every damn mario game, Paper is no different.
Except when they're Spiked, Gloombas, Hyper Goombas, Paragoombas, etc.
Choke on the Magic
Banned
I got this game when it came out and I thought it was pretty good. Not OMFG greatest game ever, but good.
Zaraki_Kenpachi
Member
Did the whole movement of those "official" gaf plays threads just wind up dying out then?
NeonZ
Member
It's funny, that's what I appreciated about SMRPG. IMO, it, not the first Paper Mario, had the right idea about how the plot and designs of an RPG spin off should be.
This isn't a traditional Mario game, it something in a different genre altogether. IMO, introducing a completely new threat, something 'alien' compared to the standard fare of the series and also showcasing new locations justifies and complements the different gameplay.
When I played the first Paper Mario, I could only wonder why they even bothered making it an RPG, considering how the whole game seemed to be just a Mario with extra dialogue (besides the completely different gameplay mechanics, of course).
Paper Mario 2 did it right, IMO. New setting, away from the Mushroom Kingdom and such but still similar stylistically to the old one. New villain group completely different from the standard Mario foes, like in Mario RPG, and the areas explored also diverged a lot from what's expected out of a Mario game, even more than in Mario RPG, actually: A fighting coliseum, a mystery in a train, even a moon base and finishing the game fighting against an
ancient witch possessing Peach's body
DeathbyVolcano
Banned
This game is awful.
Tornado Condor
Member
Best rpg i have ever played
yeah, because it's so simple...
yeah, because it's so simple...
A Link to the Past
Banned
NeonZ said:
If it doesn't follow the design of Mario, why even bother? Mario & Luigi and Paper Mario not only stay true to Mario, but they both introduce many new locations.
And that second statement was just idiotic. Don't even talk, wow.
How the Hell is Paper Mario just another Mario game? Yeah, I guess every Mario spin-off should abandon every Mario convention ever, or it's worthless and not worth existing.
MisterHero
Super Member
The only reason I knew that was because EGM had a guide around the time it came out. :lolalexh said:
In later playthroughs I did go through all the rooms but they were pretty tough, especially the '3D' crate maze. :lol
NeonZ
Member
It doesn't follow the gameplay of Mario, but even you believe that it still matters, right?
It's basically the same thing: placing Mario in a different situation. The only difference between our opinions in this point is that I believe changing only one part of the equation leaves the whole thing incomplete and contradictory.
It's not like Mario's design itself is getting changed, and even many enemies and allies are still there, the game only adds a bunch of new characters and locations which might differ from the ones usually seen in other games.
I haven't played Mario & Luigi (I'm not fond of portables), but Paper Mario's "desert with a new name" and "island with a new name" are hardly "new" locations. They're just as 'new' as all the similarly themed worlds in the real Mario games. The only real new location was that snowy village.
In everything but gameplay it basically was, as I've said. Anyway, even though you're obviously sarcastic, I do believe that's basically right- at least, for any spin off which gives Mario some sort of upgrade to his combat abilities compared to his platformer self.
If this is supposed to be just like the old adventures but with new gameplay mechanics, why does Mario need a bunch of helpers? It justs clashes with the previous games in the franchise. Introducing a new situation which is shown to be more dangerous than the 'usual' one easily and quickly justifies all the differences in game mechanics like items and partners.
I'd use the same rationale for an imaginary action game spin off too, not only RPGs. Though it's not really a Mario game, that's why I like how most of the enemies in SSBB's Subspace Emissary seem to be original rather than just remakes of old foes from the various series or (in a completely unrelated comparison) the original enemies which always end up becoming the main villains of every post-SNES Super Robot Taisen/Wars, after the enemies from the various anime series featured in the game are defeated.
A Link to the Past
Banned
NeonZ said:
Paper Mario is the only remotely close game to "just a Mario game". If gameplay is unimportant, what is?
Mario doesn't need to be "radically different". If it's not going to try to be like Mario, it shouldn't be called Mario RPG.
NeonZ
Member
Huh... Don't you know? You seem to like Paper Mario, even though it doesn't really have Mario's platformer gameplay.
Anyway, I was not saying that bad gameplay in a game can be excused, I was just saying that a spin-off in a different genre is expected to have different gameplay, even though it's still 'Mario'. Adding new visual/background elements, like new antagonists and locations makes the gameplay change seem less arbitrary.
Even Mario RPG still kept Toads, Princess, many old enemies and etc, so it clearly was still 'Mario', even if some new designs were radically different from the series' standard.
A Link to the Past
Banned
NeonZ said:
The RPG genre is one of the few times platforming CAN work. The RPG genre has out-of-battle gameplay, so why NOT take advantage of that? Spin-offs don't have to be completely different in gameplay - Paper Mario, SMRPG AREN'T completely different in gameplay. you wander around an overworld, just like any platform game.
evilromero
Member
I've been away from this game long enough that a VC purchase is warranted...when it finally comes out.
I haven't played Super Mario RPG since I rented it from Blockbuster in 1996, but I will buy it if Nintendo and Square Enix can reash a deal to put it on the Virtual Console (since SE owns all the non-Mario characters, sorta like how Disney owns all the non-Final Fantasy characters in the Kingdom Hearts series).
However, Paper Mario and Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door are great games and I would recommend them to anyone who likes Mario games and even a slight interest in RPGs. If I had to pick, I would go with TTYD (although the first game is great too).
However, Paper Mario and Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door are great games and I would recommend them to anyone who likes Mario games and even a slight interest in RPGs. If I had to pick, I would go with TTYD (although the first game is great too).
Dragona Akehi
Retired
Why would I want to play "Shitty-Five-Hour-Shit-RPG-that-doesn't-have-Wario-yet-has-some-shitty-clone-thing-instead"?
This game is the SFC generational equivalent of Kingdom Hearts. EUGH.
This game is the SFC generational equivalent of Kingdom Hearts. EUGH.
morningbus
Serious Sam is a wicked gahbidge series for chowdaheads.
What is with all the binary opinions lately? Why does everything have to be either the greatest thing ever or an abomination? Can't something be "average," or at least "mediocre?"
SMRPG is easily the greatest game ever made and that will ever be made, by the way. This is seriously the only game I play and my opinion on this game is empirical and has been recorded on massive golden gramophone records, enclosed into a space time capsule, and blasted to the farthest reaches of our universe in hopes that one day, alien lifeforms will come across these records, learn to decode their messages, and accept the information contained therein as inerrant and ineffable truth.
SMRPG is easily the greatest game ever made and that will ever be made, by the way. This is seriously the only game I play and my opinion on this game is empirical and has been recorded on massive golden gramophone records, enclosed into a space time capsule, and blasted to the farthest reaches of our universe in hopes that one day, alien lifeforms will come across these records, learn to decode their messages, and accept the information contained therein as inerrant and ineffable truth.
SMRPG is great. So is PM.