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[Nymphae]

https://www.pcgamer.com/fallout-76-players-given-lifetime-ban-for-homophobic-attacks/

Bethesda has banned a group of high level Fallout 76 players for life as a result of their homophobic attack on others in the game. As reported by Eurogamer, the trouble began when a player by the name of NathanTheHicc asked a trio of other players for a Disease Cure item; when one of them said he had a cute outfit, NathanTheHicc responded with, "I don't fuck with that homo shit," left, and then came back several minutes later with friends and attacked them while hurling slurs over voice chat.

Fallout 76 reduces PvP damage inflicted on players who choose not to fight back as a way of discouraging griefing, and so AJ, one of the victims, told the site that they tried to wait it out in hopes that the attackers would get bored and give up. It didn't happen. "They stuck with it and even joked about how 'this is the strongest queer I've ever seen'," AJ said.

AJ and his friends moved to a different server once they respawned, but because there are no in-game reporting tools in Fallout 76—an absolutely astonishing oversight for a game built around PvP-enabled multiplayer—they were forced to report the matter via Twitter. They eventually connected with community managers who were "very kind and helpful," but the support page they were directed to didn't work properly.

Eventually Bethesda got the full story, possibly because NathanTheHicc actually uploaded a video of the incident from his perspective, titled 'Cleansing of the queers', to his YouTube channel. He admitted to Eurogamer that AJ's claims about the attack are accurate, although he claimed that he doesn't actually hate gay people.

"It was just a late night of having fun and after the first encounter (seen on my channel) we felt it would be fun to offend them somehow. You can call that evil but I think it's just playful immaturity," he said. "I do not regret the incident. I will not apologize, given the opportunity. I don't plan on doing anything like this in the future but to be fair I didn't plan the initial incident, I just found them and decided to go through with it."

Harmless trolling or vicious hate motivated attack? Deserving of a lifetime ban?

 

[Conan-san]

Yeah, no, if nothing else uploading a video with the title 'Clensing of the Queers' makes the intent perfectly clear.

One could say stupid shit when brain is off and it's the middle of the night (That said, that's is still highly offenseive even if it's probably not actionable unless someone was keeping recordings), uploading a video is both premeditated and very evident.

 

[The_Mike]

Bethesda just halved their player base.

On a more serious note, I do understand they tend to do something, but a lifetime ban might be a little harsh.

 

[El_Belmondo]

As it should fucking be.

but a lifetime ban might be a little harsh.

It isn't. If someone is an uncivilised asshole he deserved to be permabanned.

 

[ANIMAL1975]

We like to play games online to have fun, to socialize, meet other people and have a good time with them, even when is competitively! We all like games, that's what brings us together, not apart! For me there is no escuse.

 

[Virex]

Got to keep that Wasteland pure comrades. Can’t have peoples feelings hurt in a video game that’s not real life

 

[Nymphae]

As it should fucking be.



It isn't. If someone is an uncivilised asshole he deserved to be permabanned.

I read in the comments that there is a single player component of the game that this player will no longer be able to access. Not sure how much of a single player game there is there.

 

[LegendOfKage]

Yeah, no, if nothing else uploading a video with the title 'Clensing of the Queers' makes the intent perfectly clear.

Top could be stupid shit said when brain is off (though is still highly offenseive), uploading a video is premeditated.

The ONLY thing I dislike about this whole issue is that they were given a three day ban initially, then Eurogamer wrote about it, and then they got a lifetime ban. This would suggest that some website giving them attention caused Bethesda to be shamed into issuing a lifetime ban. That part I don't like. I hate that sort of thing.

HOWEVER, I do think Bethesda should have lifetime banned them outright. I've defended banning players from products for "exploiting" the game in a way that doesn't affect other players, but this was absolutely not that. These people were targeting others with slurs and griefing. This is absolutely not the conduct you want to allow in your game.

Got to keep that Wasteland pure comrades. Can’t have peoples feelings hurt in a video game that’s not real life

Would you be defending the same thing if a group of players was griefing and hurling slurs at a player because they were Jewish, Arab, White or Black?

 

[Dunki]

Yeah no complains here. This is also totally differen than the Red Dead Redemption video series from this one guy who killed feminist NPCs. This is actually harassing players and should not be tolerated.

 

[Virex]

The ONLY thing I dislike about this whole issue is that they were given a three day ban initially, then Eurogamer wrote about, and then they got a lifetime ban. This would suggest that some website giving them attention caused Bethesda to be shamed into issuing a lifetime ban. That part I don't like. I hate that sort of thing.

HOWEVER, I do think Bethesda should have lifetime banned them outright. I've defended banning players from products for "exploiting" the game in a way that doesn't affect other players, but this was absolutely not that. These people were targeting others with slurs and griefing. This is absolutely not the conduct you want to allow in your game.



Would you be defending the same thing if a group of players was griefing and hurling slurs at a player because they were Jewish, Arab, White or Black?

I won’t defend anyone. People should be able to say what they want when they want and whenever they want to whoever they want. Words can’t do anything. If words hurt you then you need to grow a spine

 

[Nymphae]

I think it would be more fun to have a system of sorts that heavily penalizes the offenders. Let them keep playing, but have voice chat privileges revoked and force them to wear a rainbow colored dress and sequin gloves in game forever.

 

[ZehDon]

Got to keep that Wasteland pure comrades. Can’t have peoples feelings hurt in a video game that’s not real life

Proclaimimg that you’ve arrived to exterminate the homosexuals for being homosexuals and exterminate Jews for being Jews. Is this supposed to be a joke? Where is the humour? Even shock-comics have a punchline. This isn’t some kind of rebellion against “PC gone mad!”. This is just hateful vomit to get clicks on YouTube from people who think videoing a corpse in a forest is entertainment. Ban ‘em all.

 

[Virex]

Proclaimimg that you’ve arrived to exterminate the homosexuals for being homosexuals and exterminate Jews for being Jews. Is this supposed to be a joke? Where is the humour? Even shock-comics have a punchline. This isn’t some kind of rebellion against “PC gone mad!”. This is just hateful vomit to get clicks on YouTube from people who think videoing a corpse in a forest is entertainment. Ban ‘em all.

K

 

[nkarafo]

Well, the trolls were very loud and obnoxious about it, as if they were asking for it. Maybe they went for an account suicide.

 

[LegendOfKage]

I won’t defend anyone. People should be able to say what they want when they want and whenever they want to whoever they want. Words can’t do anything. If words hurt you then you need to grow a spine

I completely disagree with this, but I'm also glad you can have an opinion like this here and not be removed from the forum for "thinking the wrong way." I'm also fiercely free speech and anti-deplatforming, but much like yelling fire in a crowded theater, there are verbal actions that don't really serve any purpose other than to do harm. Not that I feel they should be illegal, but we're not talking about legality. There was no value or simple difference of opinion, here. These weren't people having a conversation about whether or not homosexuality should be considered a sin, and someone was then offended. For a private platform like a video game, especially coupled with the griefing, I feel their actions should absolutely be grounds for removal. I'm also sure that they would have blatantly violated the terms of service, which makes their removal even easier to justify.

 

[Nymphae]

but much like yelling fire in a crowded theater, there are verbal actions that don't really serve any purpose other than to do harm.

I would say that these two instances of speech are potentially harming in different ways, yelling fire in a crowded theater incites an immediate physical response from a mob which can have severe physical consequences, whereas slurs online really only hurt feelings ultimately.

 

[LegendOfKage]

I think it would be more fun to have a system of sorts that heavily penalizes the offenders. Let them keep playing, but have voice chat privileges revoked and force them to wear a rainbow colored dress and sequin gloves in game forever.

Better yet, permanently roll their the game back to version 1.0, and put all the griefers on the same server together. They get access to what they paid for, no more and no less.

I would say that these two instances of speech are potentially harming in different ways, yelling fire in a crowded theater incites an immediate physical response from a mob which can have severe physical consequences, whereas slurs online really only hurt feelings ultimately.

Very true, but my point was both are designed to cause amusement by harming people, either physically or emotionally. There is a huge difference and I don't buy into the argument that "I need to be protected from what I decide is hate speech, because it stresses me out, which is bad for me physically, so all hateful speech is verbal violence" but I also don't buy into "speech can't hurt you, just grow a thicker skin." Especially when accompanied by griefing on a private platform.

I'm not saying yelling fire and yelling slurs are equal in harm, I'm saying they're equal in contributing the same level of value. Does that make sense?

The government should not be deciding these matters, because there's too much bias, and we would never want to give politicians that sort of power. But a company running video game servers? Yeah, have at it. Ban away. If I think your policy protects some groups while ignoring the abuse of other groups, I just won't buy your games anymore. Simple as that.

 

[HeresJohnny]

This is why I'm glad I don't play multiplayer games as a general rule. I don't care for the games and a lot of the communities are comprised of vapid ne'er do wells. Life's too short for that shit. I play games to have a good time.

EDIT: Just watched the rest of the video, and besides the three morons spewing out all their garbage, the game looks about as fun as growing an asshole on your forehead.

 

[Nymphae]

There is a huge difference and I don't buy into the argument that "I need to be protected from what I decide is hate speech, because it stresses me out, which is bad for me physically, so all hateful speech is verbal violence"...

Agreed

...but I also don't buy into "speech can't hurt you, just grow a thicker skin." Especially when accompanied by griefing on a private platform.

I agree that it can hurt you(r feelings), and I'm all for Bethesda policing their game the way they see fit. But in a broader sense, I'm not sure what else to say besides grow a thicker skin if we believe people have a right to say what they want to say freely.

 

[Nymphae]

Giving the attacked player reduced damage during a grief attack seems to have the reverse intended effect and only makes the torment go on longer.

 

[Halo is Back]

Meh nothing of value was lost

 

[BigBooper]

I think it would be more fun to have a system of sorts that heavily penalizes the offenders. Let them keep playing, but have voice chat privileges revoked and force them to wear a rainbow colored dress and sequin gloves in game forever.

I agree that banning from voice chat would be the way to go. Maybe for six months, and longer for repeats. Don't forget he paid a lot for this game that he can no longer play, and he probably can't get a refund.

I've never thought full bans were fair.

 

[off duty ninja]

To have Fun with it they could also put a permanent bounty on the griefers head for the period of the ban along with perma muting them.

I’d be fine with a temp ban here too but based on the douches video title and his bold statement that he wouldn’t apologize along with sounding like a fucking sociopath in his explanation of the event I’m glad he’s gone.

"It was just a late night of having fun and after the first encounter (seen on my channel) we felt it would be fun to offend them somehow. You can call that evil but I think it's just playful immaturity," he said. "I do not regret the incident. I will not apologize, given the opportunity. I don't plan on doing anything like this in the future but to be fair I didn't plan the initial incident, I just found them and decided to go through with it."

This all reads like a confession to a violent crime by a sociopath.

I’m all for free speech but there are still consequences for being a fucking douche and they deserve what they got.

 

[Fuzzee]

Direct threats to the individual and promotion of targeted attacking 'should' be against the rules and people should be punished for it in most cases. That being said, this isn't that. This is people being idiots on the internet. (I know, incredible) Combined with the industry standard being inaction. I can see why these guys would act they way they did. (Have never heard of a CS:GO ban for griefing/trolling/offensive language on voice coms)

TL;DR They shouldn't have been punished, industry needs more consistency, people jumping on the outrage bandwagon again.

 

[JareBear: Remastered]

Is the guy using a voice changer? He sounds....odd?

 

[Mochilador]

What an asshole.

 

[JareBear: Remastered]

In regard to the “free speech” mentality of some posters I feel obliged to point out that “free speech” doesn’t exist universally for anyone. If I wrote terrible things here I would be banned, I will get suspended from Overwatch it verbally or textually (uh I’m probably using wrong word here) harass my teammates. That’s life. You can’t “say what you want, when you want, where you want.” Well, you can, I guess, but you will face consequences from whatever authority of the medium you’re using.

 

[JohnnyFootball]

Put all those in their own server. Problem solved.

 

[hariseldon]

Lifetime ban is about right here, though Bethesda clearly need to improve the reporting tools.

 

[TeamGhobad]

lifetime ban is a blessing imo

 

[TeamGhobad]

Is the guy using a voice changer? He sounds....odd?

ya its a 12 year old boy with a voice changer

 

[Aurelian]

Direct threats to the individual and promotion of targeted attacking 'should' be against the rules and people should be punished for it in most cases. That being said, this isn't that. This is people being idiots on the internet. (I know, incredible) Combined with the industry standard being inaction. I can see why these guys would act they way they did. (Have never heard of a CS:GO ban for griefing/trolling/offensive language on voice coms)

TL;DR They shouldn't have been punished, industry needs more consistency, people jumping on the outrage bandwagon again.

Did you also miss the part where they were unrepentant for what they did? They knew they were harassing real LGBT people and would do it again. The ban is completely justified, and ideally all games would work this way.

 

[Malio]

Lifetime ban completely warranted. When people say "I don't play online games because of assholes", these idiots are the ones they're talking about. Children need to be taught lessons, and they just got taught. Anyone who defends them is a shit-stain too.

 

[michaelius]

Companies being able to take away content someone paid for is still serious bullshit no matter how bad the the thing they did is.

 

[SaviourMK2]

if you're an asshole online, you will be punished. It may not be what you expect, but something always comes back to bite you.
they're probably already back on the game with new accounts.

 

[JareBear: Remastered]

Lifetime ban completely warranted. When people say "I don't play online games because of assholes", these idiots are the ones they're talking about. Children need to be taught lessons, and they just got taught. Anyone who defends them is a shit-stain too.

When the premise of real players replacing human NPCs was revealed I feel like we all had to see stuff like this coming. This is just the kind of stuff that happens on the internet, unfortunately.

if you're an asshole online, you will be punished. It may not be what you expect, but something always comes back to bite you.
they're probably already back on the game with new accounts.

If it’s PS4 can’t they just create new PSN profile and play their copy with no issue?

 

[Zewp]

Agreed

I agree that it can hurt you(r feelings), and I'm all for Bethesda policing their game the way they see fit. But in a broader sense, I'm not sure what else to say besides grow a thicker skin if we believe people have a right to say what they want to say freely.

Well, the only reason we say "grow a thicker skin" is because the Internet is fucking awful. And it's awful because we tolerate awfulness.

I wouldn't shout "purge the homos" in the mall, at the police station, at school or at my place of work. No reason why it should be tolerated online either.

 

[Zewp]

Companies being able to take away content someone paid for is still serious bullshit no matter how bad the the thing they did is.

Before playing, they agreed to an EULA that, among other things, sets out rules for what you're allowed to do when you're accessing their servers. These people didn't abide the rules they agreed to and they got their access revoked. It seems very straight forward and not at all bullshit to me.

They still "own" their copies of the game. They just no longer have access rights to the servers that happen to be necessary to play it.

By your logic, it's also bullshit when devs ban hackers and cheaters from MP games.

 

[Aurelian]

Companies being able to take away content someone paid for is still serious bullshit no matter how bad the the thing they did is.

To add to what Zewp said: just because you paid money doesn't mean you get to dictate what the experience is like for other players. It's akin to paying to see a movie in a theater. You may have paid to watch the movie, but that doesn't entitle you to heckle the screen and kick other viewers' seats.

If anything, you should be celebrating this ban as it makes sure that more of the people who bought the game can actually play it properly and enjoy it.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Well, the only reason we say "grow a thicker skin" is because the Internet is fucking awful. And it's awful because we tolerate awfulness.

I wouldn't shout "purge the homos" in the mall, at the police station, at school or at my place of work. No reason why it should be tolerated online either.

Not a great comparison because you're also not going to be walking in fields shooting people and that is acceptable in games.

Do I want to play with asshats like this? Of course not.

But I also feel making a sandbox game with open mics and having it Rated M then banning people for things they say is a very slippery slope.

 

[Zog]

To add to what Zewp said: just because you paid money doesn't mean you get to dictate what the experience is like for other players. It's akin to paying to see a movie in a theater. You may have paid to watch the movie, but that doesn't entitle you to heckle the screen and kick other viewers' seats.

If anything, you should be celebrating this ban as it makes sure that more of the people who bought the game can actually play it properly and enjoy it.

It's a first offense, it shouldn't be a lifetime ban. Players should get more than one chance before a company takes their $60 purchase away from them. Either that or the company should issue a refund.

 

[Shaqazooloo]

Sounds like something some of my friends did on occasions, though they'd eventually admit to just be trolling and everybody has a laugh in the end.

This is going too far though so lifetime ban sounds about right... though from what i'm hearing about fallout 76 I don't really think that is much of a punishment...

 

[JareBear: Remastered]

Isn’t there some agreement we all sign when booting up these online games that says we can be banned for violating TOS?

 

[Torrent of Pork]

On one hand this is the stupid shit that led me to skip online play during the PS360 gen, on the other hand I personally think a lifetime ban over stupid shit is a little harsh. At the end of the day it's Bethesda's call over what they want going on in their games, the audience will decide whether this was a good call or not.

On a semi-related note I fondly remember the absolutely vile things my friends and I said and did to each other in our Halo lan party days. I literally created a Halo 1 account called "Jason's a fag" just to insult a red neck friend of mine from across the house when he sniped me. A minute into the game he killed me, and the whole team waited in childish anticipation for 5 seconds before we heared bellowing through the house, "WHICH ONE OF YOU MOTHERFUCKERS NAMED YOURSELVES THAT!?"

 

[120v]

real talk i think bethesda just didn't need any more backlash they're already dealing with so they quickly nipped this in the bud, and i don't really blame them

but this is par for the course in any online game with pvp and voice chat, like every single one on a daily basis

 

[Lightsbane]

Companies being able to take away content someone paid for is still serious bullshit no matter how bad the the thing they did is.

Nah, Bethesda are free to promote whatever environment they desire on their servers and, shockingly, they don't want to enable this kind of behavior.

Crazy, I know.

 

[Nymphae]

Nah, Bethesda are free to promote whatever environment they desire on their servers and, shockingly, they don't want to enable this kind of behavior.

Crazy, I know.

Well I think he has somewhat of a point if the offender no longer has access to the single player portion of the game. I can't imagine there is much of a single player game here, but still.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

real talk i think bethesda just didn't need any more backlash they're already dealing with so they quickly nipped this in the bud, and i don't really blame them

but this is par for the course in any online game with pvp and voice chat, like every single one on a daily basis

This is why I say it is a slippery slope because sadly it is par for the course in todays age.

Reason I say that is I used to group up with several guys who worked in Law Enforcement that always had things in their titles and icons or whatever they could to show they were in some form brothers of LEO (Law Enforcement Officers.)

Most times people who realize this people all the time would yell over coms kill those Fing pigs and the likes.

Should they get banned next?

Who decides 6 months from now whats acceptable and whats not?

 

[CatLady]

Bethesda just halved their player base.

On a more serious note, I do understand they tend to do something, but a lifetime ban might be a little harsh.

It's not harsh, this isn't some SJW shit, it's severe unrepentant harassment of other players, especially considering they uploaded an unapologetic video gloating over their asshole antics.

 

[xrnzaaas]

No reporting tools rofl, it should be a mandatory feature even for a multiplayer game that doesn't feature voice chat.