JareBear: Remastered
Banned
I understand it can be a slippery slope but I feel there has to be a way to clearly define what’s harassment and what’s “playful immaturity” as the banned guy put it.
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Fallout 76 players given lifetime ban for homophobic trolling
- Thread starter Nymphae
- Start date
I understand it can be a slippery slope but I feel there has to be a way to clearly define what’s harassment and what’s “playful immaturity” as the banned guy put it.
#Phonepunk#
Banned
its kind of funny. they want to make a "post apocalypse" simulator yet they want it to be nice. they declined putting in NPCs cos they wanted to let the player base do the work for free. now they are surprised when people that want to spend all day cosplaying in a post apocalyptic wasteland with no people engage in anti-social activities! really it's amazing.
it's funny also when you consider what might happen in that IRL situation. there would of course be roving gangs of people, people with bad intentions, people that are bad people. somehow this game accurately simulates that, but of course, we can't have it. it's got to be sanitized. shoot people all day long if you want, just don't portray it in a politically iffy way. they want the appearance of societal collapse but they want people to still behave nice. it's funny and just underlines how unreal and entirely disconnected from reality these fantasies are.
maybe they should remove the ability to shoot guns, murder isn't very enlightened either. they should remove the ability to rob people as well. make it just a walking simulator where you read chat logs about things that happened in the past.
it's funny also when you consider what might happen in that IRL situation. there would of course be roving gangs of people, people with bad intentions, people that are bad people. somehow this game accurately simulates that, but of course, we can't have it. it's got to be sanitized. shoot people all day long if you want, just don't portray it in a politically iffy way. they want the appearance of societal collapse but they want people to still behave nice. it's funny and just underlines how unreal and entirely disconnected from reality these fantasies are.
maybe they should remove the ability to shoot guns, murder isn't very enlightened either. they should remove the ability to rob people as well. make it just a walking simulator where you read chat logs about things that happened in the past.
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JareBear: Remastered
Banned
Seems like a bit of a reach here.
Almost every open-PvP game lets you gank people to your heart’s content without needing to throw in “queer cleansing” to the mix.
HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
100% agree with you but when we start down this road of banning people for what they say who gets to decide what offends which group of people with what they say?
Totally agree these creeps went too far just concerns me whats next you can't say is all.
i don't doubt they were just going for absurdist laughs and most people on the server were probably chuckling but intent doesn't matter. the consequence is all the same
Darkking2001
Banned
It[s always the two extremes....if we start banning people we won't know when to stop...or we leave it completely open....how about in the middle...
HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
Thats my point that who decides what that middle is?
Someone who is younger and possibly more politically correct or some old fool like myself that doesn't care what people say?
I grew up in the whole sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me era.
I say allow people to mute prox chat when they want.
A little background my first wife all the way back in the early 1980s had a child with Down Syndrome when we met and she was always on this huge crusade against anyone who she thought was even looking at our son wrong.
She always asked me don't you think those people are talking about us and about our son?
I was like so what if they are. If they are its because they are ignorant and me getting upset and fighting the world will not fix ignorant people.
Even like in this case does anyone remotely think banning these kids will fix their mentality?
It may have very well made things worse as they are looking on their phones in study hall laughing how much this his blown up.
Zog
Banned
..and what was not against the TOS when you bought the game may later become against the TOS. Changing the terms of service after you bought it without the option to opt out and get a refund is a problem in my opinion.
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Darkking2001
Banned
Mate, I am the opposite..physical shit doesn't bother me but words do..physical wounds will heal with time while mental ones don't...as someone bullied a shitton I don't like attitude of "well they won't change"
It's not about them...its about making the victim feel...well not like a horrible person...when you don't punish these assholes you make the victim think that it's alright for this shit to happen...
If you say horrible shit with the intent of people a horrible shit...you deserve to be treated like a horrible shit
Edit: It's also there to dissuade people who might join in cause they think it's alright.
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I don't feel like it's a slippery slope at all. The point of the game is that other players can shoot you. On the other hand, a dude getting upset because someone called their outfit cute, then going to fetch their friends so that they can harass them while shouting all kinds of anti-gay slurs and things like "they lynched gays back in the day", is not what most of us sign up for when we play an MP game, regardless of the rating. It's bannable behavior in the majority of games.
M-rated doesn't mean it's okay for people to suddenly start abusing and harassing each and I'm not sure why you'd think that's the case. It wouldn't be allowed in 95% of online games and the rating doesn't figure in at all. The occasional "fag" or "I fucked your mom", eh. I can still argue that a lifetime ban is a bit extreme in that case. This is a completely different ballpark and falls into abuse territory. Uploading a video of the incident to Youtube with the title "Cleansing of the queers" is just borderline retarded. Of course that shit's not going to fly.
I think game bans shouldn't be permanent except perhaps for very extreme cases of repeated offenders. A temporary ban should be enough to make most people stop doing stupid things, and that way you also won't prevent anyone from accessing the content they purchased, which is a complex topic IMHO. Even complete retards like the ones shown here can eventually get a clue, or at least learn to keep the stupidity to themselves.
Then again, we live in a world were some stupid thing you said on Twitter while you were drunk can get you fired ten years later, so...
Then again, we live in a world were some stupid thing you said on Twitter while you were drunk can get you fired ten years later, so...
Aurelian
my friends call me "Cunty"
They had plenty of chances to stop but didn't, and at least some said they didn't regret what they did. This wasn't blurting out a racist slur in a moment of anger; this was sustained, intentional harassment that they suggested they might do again. So yeah, they've had their multiple chances. This ban is entirely justified, and I celebrate it.
Dr. Claus
Vincit qui se vincit
Mhm. This is straight and to the point. Pure assholes doing asshole things. I can't feel sorry for their actions and I think the perma ban is more than acceptable.
Zog
Banned
This kind of thing will escalate to the point where certain groups are targeted like we see on social media. I am just glad I don't play online games because it's going to become a minefield and in a few years when the people who now support this start to complain I'll be here to say 'You did this to yourselves'.
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Aurelian
my friends call me "Cunty"
I'm sorry, but in cases like this, I think a permanent ban is warranted. This wasn't just an off-hand insult, or a "tee hee hee" burst of harassment. They went at this for a while, in retaliation, and they posted it to YouTube.
Also, remember that buying an online-only game means you're always subject to the rules if you want to play. As I said earlier, it's like buying a ticket to the movie theater. You're paying to see the movie, but that doesn't mean you're entitled to do anything you want while you're in the theater -- you have to respect everyone else who paid, too. And if you've both committed a serious infraction and have no intention of apologizing? In both cases, the company is entirely within its rights to give you the boot.
Zog
Banned
Where are these rules clearly spelled out? Where do players go to agree to the SPECIFIC rules before purchase (because after purchase refunds aren't allowed)?
See, this is the kind of power that game consumers give to game companies that most other companies don't get. For example, if you misuse your vacuum cleaner, Hoover won't take it away and further, if it doesn't work as expected then it can be returned after it's opened (because how would you know if it works as expected if you don't open it and use it). Replace Hoover and Vacuum cleaner with most other companies and products.
Interestingly, the most common reason given for no software refunds is piracy but why would that apply to a digital copy or an online only game?
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You agree to the terms when you buy the game and log into the online service
Maybe don’t be a piece of shit? Most people seem to get by fine?
Shifty
Member
It's not Bethesda's job to fix people's shitty mentality. It's their job to keep their online service free of individuals who would ruin it for everyone else given half a chance.
prinz_valium
Member
Makes sense in a post apocalyptic world to have groups that would try to clean the world of various kinds of people.
Seem like perfect role playing for a mature game.
Seem like perfect role playing for a mature game.
Zog
Banned
Yep, the minute you buy the vacuum cleaner, you are agreeing to keep it even if it doesn't work properly. /s
So when you log into the online service, are the rules clearly spelled out? If so, are they buried in a bunch of legalese?
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Elitist1945
Member
Are some people here really defending the people who got banned? You think being a homophobe and a probable psychopath is protected by free speech? Are you crazy?
Good job Bethesda. Some of you need to rethink your mentality and probably your lifestyle.
Good job Bethesda. Some of you need to rethink your mentality and probably your lifestyle.
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Shifty
Member
A product you buy from a shop and a 'service' that you buy into such as FO76 are distinct things with their own rules and regulations. That sort of logic is just going to derail into an argument over semantics.
If it's anything like every other game service / service game out there, yes. Granted, we all know that nobody reads that stuff, but the fact remains that the information is available to people with the intent to look for it.
If you're going to act in such a way that might stray outside of the code of conduct and haven't thought to apprise yourself of the actual hard-and-fast rules so as to avoid catching a ban, then it's your own fault if you get it in the neck for acting like a dick. Behaving yourself isn't hard.
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Zog
Banned
Personally, I am looking at the bigger picture and not these individual people. When a company makes a $60 purchase unusable then the least they can do is offer a refund. If they don't want to do that (and we know Bethesda doesn't want to do that) then they need to make sure they specifically spell out the rules and have players agree to them before the purchase.
Simple thing really, before you go to the store to buy the game log into your Bethesda account and agree to the TOS. That way if you don't agree with the TOS then no refund is needed.
Elitist1945
Member
I personally don't have Fallout 76 but I imagine it has TOS and EULA it asks for you to accept like most games? If a player doesn't read it and gets banned for violating rules it's on them and only them.
Even if it's not in the TOS, it's common sense to not go around and threatening people, being racist, homophobic, sexist, etc.
Zog
Banned
At the point that you can agree to the TOS, the game is already purchased and can't be refunded so of course everyone is going to agree to it.
Further, it is in everyone's best interests if companies make sure the TOS is easy to understand. You say 'it's your fault if you don't seek out the rules' and I say that if the company makes the rules harder to find than necessary then they are to blame as well.
I really don't understand the resistance here, companies should be able to ban people for bad behavior but they should make a strong effort to ensure the rules are understood by all players BEFORE a purchase if they don't want to offer refunds for those who do not agree with the TOS.
Zog
Banned
There it is. Fuck the consumer, if you don't know what is and is not bannable because it isn't CLEARLY written anywhere and you haven't agreed to it then it's still your own fault.
Elitist1945
Member
If you're a consumer and seek to bring hatred to an online community/service and other players then yes, fuck you. Next time be a civil human being and maybe you won't miss out.
I want to clarify that none of this is directed towards you or anyone on here, just specifically the players in question and those that behave similarly.
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Zog
Banned
Players that behave badly should be banned BUT without clear rules in place that each player has to agree to without coercion (that is, before they make the purchase) then this will just be abused and real money is involved.
Elitist1945
Member
Zog
Banned
Vague rules aren't good for anyone. Look at how certain groups are targeted on social media and the rules aren't enforced equally. For example, sexism is fine in one direction but not the other. Racism against whites is fine but not in any other case. Clear rules are important.
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Darkking2001
Banned
bonchooski
Member
To all of you saying the ban is harsh, if someone came on here saying those exact same things....should they not be banned?
Aurelian
my friends call me "Cunty"
You see, you have more of a point with the current situation, where Bethesda isn't making refunds available for downloads. I'd like it if you could easily, clearly find the terms on the web before you go shopping, and to make refunds available to all digital buyers.
With that said, you'd hope that most people would understand that they're going to get in trouble if they launch a sustained homophobic harassment campaign and publish it on YouTube. At the least, these teens shouldn't be shocked at what Bethesda did.
Zog
Banned
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bonchooski
Member
Darkking2001
Banned
JareBear: Remastered
Banned
In the post-apocalypse people are going to still be concerned with the sexuality of others?
Zog
Banned
In a post apocalyptic world I would imagine that people would become more tribal.
No, it means that the rules they must follow must be clear and agreed to without coercion.
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Elitist1945
Member
Darkking2001
Banned
He's not saying that....
Lightsbane
Member
Let's rephrase that: imagine having to be told not to "eliminate all gays" then proceed to "decontaminate" the area around their dead bodies.
Zog
Banned
Why do you oppose clear and agreed to rules?
Darkking2001
Banned
Let me rephrase it for you..imagine letting multi billion dollar corporations being able to ban you cause they make their rules not clear for most consumers.
We need a top down reformation on consumer rights when it comes to gaming...it's just abysmal....then we won't have to over this and can ban people happily!
Zog
Banned
LOL I really did laugh out loud and my son sleeping on my chest didn't appreciate it. Thanks for the laugh.
Domisto
Member
I'm not into permabans (especially for first offences) but would have no problem with them getting a long one, month or so, I like the idea of killing their voice chat for a time. The guys were acting like assholes to a stranger. It falls under bullying/harassment. I'd expect it to be in the TOS as it is on most forums etc. They enjoyed their free speech but I ain't shedding a tear over the consequences.
"fallout 3 and 4 sold about 40 million combined, but people don't like it's FPS. time to wrap it up boys"
sage advice for the bethesda brass