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[OverBlood 3]

This is how I feel after reading through this thread
http://youtu.be/EyYBL-8yx5M

 

[desu]

Amazing thread .

 

[brainchild]

You're really reaching here, first you went from that's how shadows cast in real life, to now having shadows reacting to lighting on the cars would ruin gameplay, almost every racing game has cars casting somewhat proper shadows this gen, this game doesn't, end of story. Wipe out 2048 even has them

https://youtu.be/e97FgfJh-xY

Final proof this game has blob cheap shadows, at about 320 seconds in there is a crash, shadow of car is none existent.

You really don't understand the argument, do you? My real life examples of shadow projection ARE PRECISELY WHY FRN doesn't use those type of shadows! Clearly, they wouldn't be visible at all times on the track, and that would be a problem for a game with floating vehicles.

And your 'proof' is once again missing the point. No one is saying that the vehicles cast shadows from the sun as a light source, just that the shadow is a real-time dynamic shadow, it's not static.

It may not be realistic at times, like when the vehicle crashes, but it's also not realistic for the vehicle to start blinking when it respawns. Don't forget that this is an arcade game after all.

 

[ninjablade]

You really don't understand the argument, do you? My real life examples of shadow projection ARE PRECISELY WHY FRN doesn't use those type of shadows! Clearly, they wouldn't be visible at all times on the track, and that would be a problem for a game with floating vehicles.

And your 'proof' is once again missing the point. No one is saying that the vehicles cast shadows from the sun as a light source, just that the shadow is a real-time dynamic shadow, it's not static.

It may not be realistic at times, like when the vehicle crashes, but it's also not realistic for the vehicle to start blinking when it respawns. Don't forget that this is an arcade game after all.

Err, a dynamic real time Shadow, is a shadow that reacts to light properly, other wise it's not dynamic.

 

[brainchild]

Err, a dynamic real time Shadow, is a shadow that reacts to light properly, other wise it's not dynamic.

And the shadows under the FRN vehicles do that. Just not with the light from the sun.

You can think of the light source as an imaginary key light with extraordinary shadow falloff.

 

[Roo]

Oh my God...

 

[M1ch04c4n0]

I thought by now everyone would understand that any mention of "Dreamcast/PS1/N64 graphics" immediately disqualify any observation about graphics of technology.

Anyone, day one, it looks great, hopefully will be equally entertaining.

 

[brainchild]

I thought by now everyone would understand that any mention of "Dreamcast/PS1/N64 graphics" immediately disqualify any observation about graphics of technology.

Anyone, day one, it looks great, hopefully will be equally entertaining.

Yeah, I think I've about had my fill of ninjablade trolling. Someone else can deal with him.

 

[HTupolev]

Err, a dynamic real time Shadow, is a shadow that reacts to light properly, other wise it's not dynamic.

It's a matter of semantics. Sometimes "dynamic shadow" just refers to shadows cast by dynamic objects, regardless of whether the shadow map is re-generated from scratch. Sometimes "dynamic shadow" means a shadow from a dynamic light.

There are a huge variety of ways to handle shadows and how they update.

It's usually just best to be precise, rather than fighting over the meaning of an ambiguous phrase.

 

[brainchild]

It's a matter of semantics. Sometimes "dynamic shadow" just refers to shadows cast by dynamic objects, regardless of whether the shadow map is re-generated from scratch. Sometimes "dynamic shadow" means a shadow from a dynamic light.

There are a huge variety of ways to handle shadows and how they update.

It's usually just best to be precise, rather than fighting over the meaning of an ambiguous phrase.

The funny thing is that the shadows for the vehicles in FRN would qualify under any definition of the term. The shadows dynamically respond to a light source above the vehicles, as well as the light source above the vehicles (though invisible) dynamically moving along the track.

There is no semantical argument by which those shadows would not be considered dynamic, so he's just flat out wrong. A sun is one light source. An objects' shadow doesn't have to respond to it.

I suppose one could make the argument that an object is not fully dynamic unless it dynamically responds to every light source in its environment, but that's another matter entirely, especially if we follow that to its logical conclusion, and propose that a shadow isn't fully dynamic unless it dynamically responds to full blown Monte Carlo global illumination, which would be ridiculously pedantic.

 

[correojon]

Let´s see if I have this straight: Ninjablade spends loads of time researching and discussing a game he won´t play on a console he doesn´t own.
Dude, just get a WiiU and use all that time to have fun with us playing this fantastic looking game.

 

[sfried]

Can we ban ninjablade?

Anyways, any concrete date for FR-Neo?

 

[ninjablade]

The funny thing is that the shadows for the vehicles in FRN would qualify under any definition of the term. The shadows dynamically respond to a light source above the vehicles, as well as the light source above the vehicles (though invisible) dynamically moving along the track.

There is no semantical argument by which those shadows would not be considered dynamic, so he's just flat out wrong. A sun is one light source. An objects' shadow doesn't have to respond to it.

I suppose one could make the argument that an object is not fully dynamic unless it dynamically responds to every light source in its environment, but that's another matter entirely, especially if we follow that to its logical conclusion, and propose that a shadow isn't fully dynamic unless it dynamically responds to full blown Monte Carlo global illumination, which would be ridiculously pedantic.

here is what i get when i google what are dynamic shadows

Dynamic shadows are shadows that are calculated in real-time to look like the object's real shadow would, based on the shape of the object and the location of the light-source(s). This is a computationally-expensive task, so it was not feasible in most older 3D games.Jul 18, 2014

thats what my definition of what dynamic shadows are. i also wanna point out, no matter night or day, NFR has the same shadow, no matter the light source.

 

[Putosaure]

thats what my definition of what dynamic shadows are. i also wanna point out, no matter night or day, NFR has the same shadow, no matter the light source.

I'm sure everybody who will get the game will only care about the shadows not reacting to light sources instead of actually playing the game.

 

[Celine]

Let's hope FNR play as good as it looks

Can we ban ninjablade?

Anyways, any concrete date for FR-Neo?

Never request a ban it's bad habit.
Just put him into your ignore list.

 

[Jon Carter]

here is what i get when i google what are dynamic shadows

thats what my definition of what dynamic shadows are. i also wanna point out, no matter night or day, NFR has the same shadow, no matter the light source.

This has been addressed at length several times already in response to your posts in this thread... No need to repeat what your definition of dynamic shadows is when you already got your point across during the first of many back-and-forths on this subject and people have taken the time to respond.

 

[Hero of Legend]

Honesty? I'm happy with shadows like that as long as they're used properly and help free-up power reserves that can be used in ways to make the graphics even better. Aren't shadows major power eaters?

 

[KingSnake]

NintendoLife has a feature series about FAST Racing NEO. They put up the first partin which they talk about one racer and one track. I assume more will follow weekly until release:

A Glimpse Behind the Scenes of FAST Racing NEO - Part One

I'm at work so I can't access the website properly and I can't see any pictures properly (except for the one above that is taken from twitter), so if anybody wants to do a new thread about this, feel free.

Edit: ^done already.

 

[jariw]

I'm at work so I can't access the website properly and I can't see any pictures properly (except for the one above that is taken from twitter), so if anybody wants to do a new thread about this, feel free.

I just made this thread:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1143377

 

[brainchild]

here is what i get when i google what are dynamic shadows



thats what my definition of what dynamic shadows are. i also wanna point out, no matter night or day, NFR has the same shadow, no matter the light source.

Nothing in that definition contradicts the dynamic shadows in FRN. We get it. You think they should react to the sun. Well they don't, and they're still dynamic shadows. Get over it.

Honesty? I'm happy with shadows like that as long as they're used properly and help free-up power reserves that can be used in ways to make the graphics even better. Aren't shadows major power eaters?

Adding shadows to the vehicles that correspond to the sun as a light source would not significantly affect performance. But even so, the shadows used in FRN are more useful for gameplay, so it's good that they don't use normal shadows.

NintendoLife has a feature series about FAST Racing NEO. They put up the first partin which they talk about one racer and one track. I assume more will follow weekly until release:

A Glimpse Behind the Scenes of FAST Racing NEO - Part One

I'm at work so I can't access the website properly and I can't see any pictures properly (except for the one above that is taken from twitter), so if anybody wants to do a new thread about this, feel free.

Edit: ^done already.

Those car designs are ACE! (and BTW, THAT is real ambient occlusion underneath those vehicles!)

 

[blu]

here is what i get when i google what are dynamic shadows



thats what my definition of what dynamic shadows are. i also wanna point out, no matter night or day, NFR has the same shadow, no matter the light source.

And by that definition FRN has dynamic shadows. Take the original 18-minute video you so love to bring up:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tiqRE2E-ChM

Pick a steady frame, say time mark 4:33, with the craft at the start. Notice how the shadow is slightly to the left of the player's craft.

Now pick another steady frame, say time mark 5:04 - craft is in motion, but still a relative straight movement. Notice how the shadow is slightly to the right of the craft.

But what does it all mean, Santa?

It means that the relative position of the light source and the shadow caster has changed.

Have a nice day.

 

[Davey Cakes]

Props to brainchild, HTupolev, blu, and other contributors (and I guess Ninjablade for starting this whole thing).

This has become an unexpectedly educational thread.

 

[Pinky]

Man, this thread is something else!

 

[Corronchilejano]

You're really reaching here, first you went from that's how shadows cast in real life, to now having shadows reacting to lighting on the cars would ruin gameplay, almost every racing game has cars casting somewhat proper shadows this gen, this game doesn't, end of story. Wipe out 2048 even has them

https://youtu.be/e97FgfJh-xY

Final proof this game has blob cheap shadows, at about 320 seconds in there is a crash, shadow of car is none existent. also at 4:56, when the helicopter robots with red lights come so they can give you the green light, there shadows are laughable, and are not reacting to lighting at all.

You know, just by looking at your own video at 1/4 speed you can EASILY see shadows being cast correctly in the very first two minutes.

Props to brainchild, HTupolev, blu, and other contributors (and I guess Ninjablade for starting this whole thing).

This has become an unexpectedly educational thread.

Don't man, just don't. Every ninjablade post is dedicated to shitting on Nintendo hardware, Nintendo games and Nintendo everything. I didn't post that GIF before because of shits and giggles. This is him literally in every Nintendo thread.

 

[ninjablade]

And by that definition FRN has dynamic shadows. Take the original 18-minute video you so love to bring up:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tiqRE2E-ChM

Pick a steady frame, say time mark 4:33, with the craft at the start. Notice how the shadow is slight to the left of the player's craft.

Now pick another steady frame, say time mark 5:04 - craft is in motion, but still a relative straight movement. Notice how the shadow is slightly to the right of the craft.

But what does it all mean, Santa?

It meas that the relativeing asition of the light source and the shadow caster has changed.

Have a nice day.

Seriously that's your proof of dynamic shadows, your suppose to be a tech head as well, lol. If FNR has anything resembling the definition of dynamic shadow I posted you would spot in a second, we're talking about deserts and very sunny conditions dynamic realistic shadows would be very apparent, nothing like your examples. You would see tons of stretching, changing positions, if you think think that's how shadows react to lighting realistically, that's pretty sad. I guess sonic adventure 2 has realistic dynamic shadows as well.

 

[noshten]

Anyone know how large the game will be?

 

[Broritos]

Anyone know how large the game will be?

Considering the game doesn't have dynamic shadows, probably 10MB.

 

[brainchild]

Seriously that's your proof of dynamic shadows, your suppose to be a tech head as well, lol. If FNR has anything resembling the definition of dynamic shadow I posted you would spot in a second, we're talking about deserts and very sunny conditions dynamic realistic shadows would be very apparent, nothing like your examples. You would see tons of stretching, changing positions, if you think think that's how shadows react to lighting realistically, that's pretty sad. I guess sonic adventure 2 has realistic dynamic shadows as well.

Dude, just stop. You've been proven wrong. It's time to move on.

Considering the game doesn't have dynamic shadows, probably 10MB.

LMAO

 

[NotLiquid]

Considering the game doesn't have dynamic shadows, probably 10MB.

 

[LoveCake]

This is on my list!

Is this 1080p or 720p? i know it's 60fps but i have seen some saying it's 1080p & others adamant that it's 720p.

 

[ninjablade]

Dude, just stop. You've been proven wrong. It's time to move on.

actually i haven't.

 

[blu]

Seriously that's your proof of dynamic shadows, your suppose to be a tech head as well, lol. If FNR has anything resembling the definition of dynamic shadow I posted you would spot in a second, we're talking about deserts and very sunny conditions dynamic realistic shadows would be very apparent, nothing like your examples. You would see tons of stretching, changing positions, if you think think that's how shadows react to lighting realistically, that's pretty sad. I guess sonic adventure 2 has realistic dynamic shadows as well.

Which part of the 'sun is not the source for the craft shadow' statement that has been repeated again and again over the past couple of pages did you not understand?

 

[FonkyByNature]

This is on my list!

Is this 1080p or 720p? i know it's 60fps but i have seen some saying it's 1080p & others adamant that it's 720p.

Pretty sure it's 720p.

http://nintendoeverything.com/720p-60fps-confirmed-for-fast-racing-neo/

 

[ninjablade]

Which part of the 'sun is not the source for the craft shadow' statement that has been repeated again an again over the past couple of pages did you not understand?

does it really matter? no matter where the sun is coming from shadows will change form or shape , it never happens in NFR.

 

[Tenki]

Considering the game doesn't have dynamic shadows, probably 10MB.

LOL

 

[ninjablade]

Which part of the 'sun is not the source for the craft shadow' statement that has been repeated again an again over the past couple of pages did you not understand?

does it really matter? no matter where the sun is coming from shadows will change, stretch form or shape eventually , it never happens in NFR. its a whole lap around a sunny racing track for god's sake, are you serious

 

[Nosgotham]

does it really matter? no matter where the sun is coming from shadows will change, stretch form or shape , it never happens in NFR. its a whole lap around a sunny racing track for god's sake, are you serious

Why are you in this thread? I just don't understand. Do you like arguing about stuff you kinda sorta know about?

Anyways I can't wait to get this game . That music is giving me the feels

 

[blu]

does it really matter? no matter where the sun is coming from shadows will change form or shape , it never happens in NFR.

The source is always sufficiently far above a caster elevated over a surface, and the caster is always oriented parallel to the surface, save for some banking. The most a shadow will change is shrink a bit when the caster banks left and right (as seen in the very first 4 seconds of the 18-minute video) and pan slightly laterally (as in left/right/front/back and combinations thereof) from underneath the caster when that changes its relative position against the far source, as seen in those time marks I referred you to.

since you edited:

does it really matter? no matter where the sun is coming from shadows will change, stretch form or shape eventually, it never happens in NFR. its a whole lap around a sunny racing track for god's sake, are you serious

Do you have a reading comprehension problem? How 'sunny' it is and where the sun is over the track has zero relevance to what I've been telling you.

 

[Corronchilejano]

Why are you in this thread?

 

[Riki]

Why are you in this thread? I just don't understand. Do you like arguing about stuff you kinda sorta know about?

Anyways I can't wait to get this game . That music is giving me the feels

He likes antogonizing WiiU owners for their "inferior" games.

 

[Pinky]

This game could have visuals/effects on par with the new Star Wars movie and ninjablade would still find something to bitch about. Why? Because "lol, Nintendo". FRN looks fucking awesome and comes from a 5-man team and he's focused on fucking shadows???

 

[TunaLover]

Can't tell if the car shadow will transform from the videos, it looks like an alpha map being projected to the track surface. Either way it looks awesome.

 

[ninjablade]

The source is always sufficiently far above a caster elevated over a surface, and the caster is always oriented parallel to the surface, save for some banking. The most a shadow will change is shrink a bit when the object banks left and right (as seen in the very first 4 seconds of the start of the 18-minute video) and offset slightly laterally (as in left/right/front/back and combinations thereof) from underneath the craft when the craft changes its relative position against the far source, as seen in those time marks I referred you to.

since you edited:

Do you have a reading comprehension problem? How 'sunny' it is and where the sun is over the track has zero relevance to what I've been telling you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tiqRE2E-ChM

dude you really believe that, lol. check the video at 4:36 when he choppers with the right lights come on, look at the shadows, the game just doesn't do proper dynamic shadows, end of story. or better yet look at the trees you can see shadows stretching at an angle where the light is coming from, precompute, but doesn't make any sense. or better yet look at 5:12 shadow of tree stretching from an angle from the sun, right next to the track, yet car shadows do nothing, your theory or developer excuse is debunked, you're wrong whether you admit it or not, i'm done here.

Can't tell if the car shadow will transform from the videos, it looks like an alpha map being projected to the track surface. Either way it looks awesome.

exactly what is.

 

[LordOcidax]

This game could have visuals/effects on par with the new Star Wars movie and ninjablade would still find something to bitch about. Why? Because "lol, Nintendo". FRN looks fucking awesome and comes from a 5-man team and he's focused on fucking shadows???

This, this game looks like a big budget title. Just amazing.

 

[blu]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tiqRE2E-ChM

dude you really believe that, lol. check the video at 4:36 when he choppers with the right lights come on, look at the shadows, the game just doesn't do proper dynamic shadows, end of story. or better yet look at the trees you can see shadows stretching at an angle where the light is coming from, precompute, but doesn't make any sense.

So essentially you didn't understand a word of what I told you. Sigh. Apparently I need to work on my communication skills.

 

[Jon Carter]

its a whole lap around a sunny racing track for god's sake, are you serious

 

[AdanVC]

We all should buy this game and take hundreds of screenshots of it and post them on the screenshot thread just to piss ninjablade off.

 

[Pinky]

Lol!

 

[KingSnake]

We all should buy this game and take hundreds of screenshots of it and post them on the screenshot thread just to piss ninjablade off.

That's a great idea. And as a bonus PC vs. PS4 screenshots. Because if in Wii U footage he sees practically nothing, in the PS4 ones he suddenly sees a lot that is not really there.

 

[Xbro]

Look at them shadows.