Instigator
Banned
I don't pretend to be more than most of the armchair engineers in this thread. That's the difference.
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F'DUPTON 3: Back in the Tub with 5.0/5.5/6/7/several Inches of RAM-Flavoured Water
- Thread starter CrunchinJelly
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I don't pretend to be more than most of the armchair engineers in this thread. That's the difference.
You can't, or shouldn't compare different games by different devs and think that proves one console has more limitations than the other. Not every developer makes the same decisions to make their games equally. To compare a 1080P very enclosed Fighter running at 60fps to a far more open 1080P FPS running at 30fps doesn't make any sense. There are less things going on in the environment in a fighter, with a lot less characters on screen at the same time. The same can be said about Racing games, one is a linear racer running at 60fps that has nothing dynamic about it, while the other is a more open World racer running at 30fps that has day/night cycles with dynamic lighting, shading, and weather effects. You also have to take into account that the development likely started at different times for each and every game, so to compare them is silly.
There are Pros, and Cons for each, so you have to take the good with the bad and realize both had to sacrifice something by two different and capable developers. Now, some other developer may come along and be able to provide all of the pros from above without any negatives, so it just depends on the developer, and the style of the game they are shooting for.
Now the best way to prove a system is more capable than the other would be to have a developer making a multiplatform game and pushing the limits of both consoles. Only then we would be able to notice a difference fairly, and far more accurate. Only time will tell, but I have a good feeling based on what Ubisoft's THE CREW dev said, that the PS4 has the better GPU, but it doesn't seem they are utilizing it fully due to other consoles having limitations.
There are Pros, and Cons for each, so you have to take the good with the bad and realize both had to sacrifice something by two different and capable developers. Now, some other developer may come along and be able to provide all of the pros from above without any negatives, so it just depends on the developer, and the style of the game they are shooting for.
Now the best way to prove a system is more capable than the other would be to have a developer making a multiplatform game and pushing the limits of both consoles. Only then we would be able to notice a difference fairly, and far more accurate. Only time will tell, but I have a good feeling based on what Ubisoft's THE CREW dev said, that the PS4 has the better GPU, but it doesn't seem they are utilizing it fully due to other consoles having limitations.
Nevermind I guess. You clearly don't know what you're talking about. Shaders are not some magical image that you can just slap more of onto the framebuffer for prettier pictures. They are programs executed on the GPU, and with respect to the overall memory budget are very, very small. Their execution time is what matters.
You honestly have NO idea what you're talking about. This is not an open platform like PC, it's closed. Extra ram does little to allow better frame rates except dependant on graphical choices and design. Similarly, frame rate is completely a design choice and not hardware limited at all, which is why we have 60fps games on the PS2, PS1, handhelds are worse.
Chobel
Member
Wrong thread???
boredandlazy
Member
Do you also happen to know the Mayor of Boston?
Codeblew
Member
Wow. I am done here.
No, some in here are talking about PS4 being limited based on games running 30fps. I was just letting them know they are silly for thinking so.
KoopaTheCasual
Junior Member
**Wild speculation and guesswork incoming**
So the only reasonable conclusion I can draw from all these insider posts flying around today is that the PS4 will offer a baseline of 5GB dedicated RAM for devs. Then there is also 1GB of "flexible" RAM which grants devs a potential 6GB of RAM. The remaining 2GB would be partitioned off to the OS. Whether that means 1.5GB for OS and 0.5GB reserved for future proofing, I have no way to speculate that.
I think my naive guesswork allows for most major 'insiders' to be correct in this instance. o_sharp's sources saying "just think of it as around 5 gigs for games" would not be so farfetched in this scenario, depending how you look at the numbers. Also for everyone else (Kagari, Thuway, Bruce, etc) claiming 6GB, the scenario still holds up if you include flexible RAM in the equation. I'm only operating on these assumptions, since none of these insiders have been banned, and probably have some sort of proof to back up their claims.
Either way, it really doesn't matter to me as long as the games look good. This whole thing has gone past the point of being amusing, and now is just getting tiresome. We need to spice things up! Due to the ridiculous nature of this Sony RAM trilogy post, it would be funny to open up a raffle, betting on the partitioning of the PS4's memory. The winners of the raffle could get to add "Mystic Ram SSJ God" to their flair, and would also acquire a lifetime supply of Cernytubs.
Just a
(incredible) suggestion.
So the only reasonable conclusion I can draw from all these insider posts flying around today is that the PS4 will offer a baseline of 5GB dedicated RAM for devs. Then there is also 1GB of "flexible" RAM which grants devs a potential 6GB of RAM. The remaining 2GB would be partitioned off to the OS. Whether that means 1.5GB for OS and 0.5GB reserved for future proofing, I have no way to speculate that.
I think my naive guesswork allows for most major 'insiders' to be correct in this instance. o_sharp's sources saying "just think of it as around 5 gigs for games" would not be so farfetched in this scenario, depending how you look at the numbers. Also for everyone else (Kagari, Thuway, Bruce, etc) claiming 6GB, the scenario still holds up if you include flexible RAM in the equation. I'm only operating on these assumptions, since none of these insiders have been banned, and probably have some sort of proof to back up their claims.
Either way, it really doesn't matter to me as long as the games look good. This whole thing has gone past the point of being amusing, and now is just getting tiresome. We need to spice things up! Due to the ridiculous nature of this Sony RAM trilogy post, it would be funny to open up a raffle, betting on the partitioning of the PS4's memory. The winners of the raffle could get to add "Mystic Ram SSJ God" to their flair, and would also acquire a lifetime supply of Cernytubs.
Just a
(incredible) suggestion.aygomyownroad
Member
I'm still going to wait for the full facts from Sony before I jump to conclusions.
After all initially the PS4 was only supposed to have 4GB of RAM... I doubt they would add an extra 4 only for only 0.5 extra to be useable...
After all initially the PS4 was only supposed to have 4GB of RAM... I doubt they would add an extra 4 only for only 0.5 extra to be useable...
Unless you are ok with screen tearing, frames should either be locked to 30 or 60 cause those are the 2 most commonly used refresh rates for TVs.
Devs choose early if they want their game locked to 30 or 60 and work from there. This is not PCs, where just by having a better machine the frames will go up. Most games try to achieve a constant frame rate on consoles.
By having it being 30 frames they can cram more particles and eye candy to mesmerize people to buy the game.
Most confirmed 60fps games for X-One are 1st party, and we haven't seen any multiplats run on both machines. Care to give an example of a particular title you are speaking of?
Chobel
Member
OK, my bad. You might consider quoting them next time.
This thread has been entertaining.
OT: It seems a lot of people on here now know about tech, how much do API's like Direct X and Open GL influence the graphical quality of games, can they make a significant difference in the face of hardware differences like in Xbox One V's PS4? I ask because I remember Microsoft touting some feature from Build on DirectX 11.2, I think it was layered tessellation or something that would be coming to the Xbox.
OT: It seems a lot of people on here now know about tech, how much do API's like Direct X and Open GL influence the graphical quality of games, can they make a significant difference in the face of hardware differences like in Xbox One V's PS4? I ask because I remember Microsoft touting some feature from Build on DirectX 11.2, I think it was layered tessellation or something that would be coming to the Xbox.
Screen tearing has nothing to do with this; see God of War 3 for example which has no tearing but the framerate is usually somewhere between 30 and 60. There are also loads of 30/60 fps games that still tear. Most devs just choose 30 or 60fps because it divides evenly into the 60hz refresh rate which makes for smooth motion.
I really dislike using the "posting history" to discredit people's arguments, but for this one I have to say:
That's a wrap.
I think it's fair game since its from this thread
Instigator
Banned
The madness really seeps out of that one. So bitter too.
CassiusLonginus
Banned
One way or the other I would hope that some of that RAM is used so that there is even better multi-tasking than in Vita.
I would want it so that one could have several features and 'apps' of the OS open without having to exit a game and that switching between them is as seamless as possible.
overconfidence
Banned
Screen tearing happens in those games because the framerate dips on those couple frames where the screen gets busy. So with a new fps number, the TV is not able to refresh evenly.
I just hope that the new PSN store is fast and snappy with all this reserved RAM. The current implementation is an atrocity.
Both consoles have access to those APIs, only the PS4 allows coding to the metal too (XO does not). So devs can subvert those APIs and code closer to the specific hardware. It's actually an advantage to the PS4, only one that will take more time and expertise to make use of.
Screen tearing happens when the scan out to the tv happens whilst a new frame is being written.
Yeah man
Oh sorry but that comment is the very definition of armchair engineer. You said that this ram allocation would equalize the xbone and ps4 which can't be further away from the truth.
There are a bunch of armchair engineers in this thread and I have been guilty of it myself but don't try to make yourself above everyone else.
travisbickle
Member
Everybody wants to know one number (the ultimate amount of RAM available for games) but nobody knows for certain.
Sony came out and said "yes, a number exists", and then a bunch of GAFers pitched their respective tents next to the rumour (number) they liked the sound of. The rumour (numbers) suggested are all the numbers between the amounts of 4.5 and 7GBs in increments of 0.5.
Instigator
Banned
Less RAM will only make the PS4 stronger. You're right.
KoopaTheCasual
Junior Member
Oh man... days are numbered.
Instigator
Banned
Depends.
Signicantly less RAM for games than previously assumed based on the "sources" in this thread. But slightly more than the DF article claimed.
FlutterPuffs
Member
Filled, and full of fart bubbles.
Tub half full.
Chobel
Member
PS4 don't have the new DirectX11.2 APIs, however it does have other special exclusive APIs so it's more than likely there's alternatives to those of DirectX 11.2.
4.5 filled, 1 drained
AyaisMUsikWhore
Member
People can check your last messages, you are in damage control mode all the day.
This is my favorite picture, and used in the right context! Bravo!
davepoobond
you can't put a price on sparks
what exactly was the previous assumption? the full 8?
i probably assumed 2GB at most, personally.
Latvian Hitman
Member
This thread....
...it's like a stupid magnet.
...it's like a stupid magnet.
Jesus Christ...I come back from surgery and see this huge thread as another battleground in the console wars? This made my head start pounding all over again...lol
I do love how some people use the typical tech terms to seem more knowledgeable when spouting nonsense they know nothing about and that says a lot if I can see it's nonsense. I have decent understanding but nowhere near enough knowledge to give "lessons" to people that clearly know more.
So many people are eager to latch on to these articles to fulfill their own personal wishes in the console war and it's quite sad. I'm in it for the fucking games and I understand that one console might have advantages over the other but that doesn't bother me because there's plenty of reasons to choose one over the other until you can get the other one at a later date.
Games are supposed to be about letting loose and having some fun, not some excuse to argue with strangers over the internet over shit that's not even concrete yet. Discussing the shit we know and all that is one thing, but to get into tech debates over a rumor as if it's undoubtedly true is jumping the gun quite a bit.
I do love how some people use the typical tech terms to seem more knowledgeable when spouting nonsense they know nothing about and that says a lot if I can see it's nonsense. I have decent understanding but nowhere near enough knowledge to give "lessons" to people that clearly know more.
So many people are eager to latch on to these articles to fulfill their own personal wishes in the console war and it's quite sad. I'm in it for the fucking games and I understand that one console might have advantages over the other but that doesn't bother me because there's plenty of reasons to choose one over the other until you can get the other one at a later date.
Games are supposed to be about letting loose and having some fun, not some excuse to argue with strangers over the internet over shit that's not even concrete yet. Discussing the shit we know and all that is one thing, but to get into tech debates over a rumor as if it's undoubtedly true is jumping the gun quite a bit.
Your name fits well.
The PS4 didn't all of a sudden get any less RAM. It can still be available in the future with Sony sliming down the OS bloat, and the same can be said for Microsoft. The type of RAM is the big advantage because it can read/write at the same time.
Instigator
Banned
7 for games/1 for OS
Something that Sony never said. Smart move in trying to put them down over it.
What he said. The tech is called Sparse Textures:
AMD Sparse Textures
Here is a thread about this on OpenGL Forums:
Thread
Their inside dev source?
Really, people are going to accuse Sony of lying because of that?
Then it will just be comparing individual games to each other as a way to justify which console is more powerful regardless of how ludicrous it is.
I hope by early next year, an armistice will be in place and we can go back to talking solely games. These debates used to be entertaining due to some people stretching everything but it's just old now. Actually, it was old like the second day in.
are you serious?
any bad game there will be people going "oh boy see, its because of the 4.5 gigs ram" if they had xxx ram the game would have been a 10.
As far as I know, the original news of 7GB for gaming is from PS4daily. Not sure about it.
People believe what they want to believe, fighters use whatever they want to fight.
Anyway, I can not figure out what to do with 7GB RAM. Absolutely dev won't leave it there. Any sense?
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