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FFVII development background (long read)

AdmiralViscen

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It's funny how this was posted so long ago, yet a lot of people around here (including myself) have argued against those who claimed that FF7 was planned for N64 (using those SGI workstations pictures as proof).
 

Grivenger and 27 others

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Eteric Rice said:
The different is that II and VI didn't try to "look" like Star Wars. VI had castles, small villages, etc. The old midieval (sort of) style overpowered the high-tech style.
Even if they don't "look" like SW as much as FFXII, it is still contradictory to use them as examples to prove the argument that true FF games are nothing like SW.

It seems to be the same deal with XIII, also.
I don't consider FFVIII's Esthar look/ FFX's Machina look of FFXIII to feel like SW. Not much, at least. With the exception of the soldiers' designs.
 

Eteric Rice

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Grivenger said:
Even if they don't "look" like SW as much as FFXII, it is still contradictory to use them as examples to prove the argument that true FF games are nothing like SW.


I don't consider FFVIII's Esthar look/ FFX's Machina look of FFXIII to feel like SW. Not much, at least. With the exception of the soldiers' designs.
Just isn't the FF I always had a liking for. You know, the sort of mix between sci-fi and fantasy? It seems 90% sci-fi now.
 

tebiro boy

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Grivenger said:
I don't consider FFVIII's Esthar look/ FFX's Machina look of FFXIII to feel like SW. Not much, at least. With the exception of the soldiers' designs.
That spaceship-looking thingy that Lightning is shown jumping off also looks quite Star Wars-esque. Which is no coincidence, because FFXII's art director (who openly admitted to being 'inspired' by Star Wars in an interview) is working on FFXIII. (Which is a crime given that Naora, who is ten times more original than the FFXII guy, has been put on the crappy keitai game >_<)
 

Auron_Kale

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Was an interesting read. I always love articles that discuss the development of games, including staff interactions because it's shows that not everyone on a team is going to agree with your ideas and that changes can be good things.
 

djtiesto

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Jul 26, 2004
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Absolutely awesome article... I wonder how far they got with the different FF7 prototypes, like the SNES version, and the 2D characters, 3D backgrounds... would have loved to see some kinds of screens. And I think that would be awesome with FF7 taking place in NY.
 

Ceb

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- FFVII was originally planned to take place in New York (!).
brandonh83 said:
:lol :lol :lol
IMO, this is pretty noticeable in Junon. Especially some of the building blocks up on the plate and their interiors (there's this one grimey-looking diner in particular that was shown in the first batch of FFVII media).

Eteric Rice said:
*shrugs* I like my old school castles, etc. :D
Old-school, submerging castles that can travel through huge stretches of desert. :p
 

Logan Cano

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Eteric Rice said:
That for a long time, Final Fantasy hasn't really had any truely "heart felt" moments. Nothing to make you tear up, ya know? At least, that's my opinion.

All I see these days, in art and in everything, is a game trying to be Star Wars (when I first played XII, that's what I saw) instead of a true Fantasy. I wish they would go back to something unique with loveable characters and an interesting world.

We need more RPGs like VI, imo.

Maybe they've just lost their touch? I dunno. :|

And before anyone says it, I'm not saying VII is bad. Just that more modern games have lost their touch.
You are completely crazy. Squall and Rinoa's journey back to earth aboard the Ragnarok is one of the best events in video games ever. It is actually the best memory I have related to videogames.

Lost their touch?? Hardly..perhaps Matsuno's **** up wasn't that great, but it's still pretty damn good. Well, it's not surprising a Nintendo fanboy would say this. ;)
 

Thoren

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Ryujin said:
I'm not dissagreeing with that, but at the same time there is alot of unfair hate on Sakaguchi and some people even try to claim that he had no hand in FF7 at all. Why I'm not sure exactly...maybe because he left Square or something? Or maybe because they think that the other important people in the development need more credit, I don't know exactly, but Sakaguchi was certainly a central figure to the games development and I'm sure he worked closely with the team, so it's unfair to try to take credit away from him also.

That was really the whole point of my comment.
I know what you mean. People unfairly discredit Sakaguchi, but they fail to realize he's come up with the Concepts and Scripts for the first Seven games, as well as FF9. It's arguable that FF8, FF10, and FF12 aren't as good since he did not write their stories.

The man was basically the heart and soul of the franchise until the PS2 Era when he went off trying to make a movie. I can't wait to try out Lost Odyssey and FF13 to see how they compare with one another.
 

Grivenger and 27 others

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Ceb said:
But that's not "pure" fantasy either. Neither is Magitek armor and Vector...
What is pure fantasy, then? Generic stuff? Wouldn't that be a contradition? If generic castles, swords and princesses - stuff that actually existed in real life - is "pure" fantasy, then what are wizards, mechanical castles, magic-powered robots, gunblades and dragons?

It's arguable that FF8, FF10, and FF12 aren't as good since he did not write their stories.
He did not write the story of FF6, FF11 and Tactics neither, three of the most praised FFs story-wise (Yes, almost everyone who has played FFXI claims that its story is excellent). And he was only one of the FOUR writers of FFVII, as well. Sakaguchi seems to be the kind of guy that when not under-rated, is over-rated.
 

Rufus

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I think he's got high fantasy in mind. The classic Tolkien inspired Dungeons & Dragons stuff everyone is kind of familiar with.
 

Ceb

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Thoren said:
I know what you mean. People unfairly discredit Sakaguchi, but they fail to realize he's come up with the Concepts and Scripts for the first Seven games, as well as FF9. It's arguable that FF8, FF10, and FF12 aren't as good since he did not write their stories.
FFI-FFIII barely had stories to speak of. Neither did FFV. This interview shows that he only created a very vague outline for FFVII - he didn't work on the script for the final product. He barely had anything to do with FFIX, but Square managed to fool a lot of fanboys with the marketing for that game.

But there's no denying his impact on the genre in creating a series that would eventually mature into something bigger without him.

Grivenger said:
What is pure fantasy, then? Generic stuff? Wouldn't that be a contradition? If generic castles, swords and princesses - stuff that actually existed in real life - is "pure" fantasy, then what are wizards, mechanical castles, magic-powered robots, gunblades and dragons?
I think you're arguing with the wrong guy. I'm telling Eteric Rice that FF has always been a mix of high technology and old fantasy. :)
 

wazoo

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I do not know the influence of Sakaguch on FF, but since he left FF is getting better after the low FFVIII/FFIX (FFIX was especially boring to play).
 

Eteric Rice

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Ceb said:
FFI-FFIII barely had stories to speak of. Neither did FFV. This interview shows that he only created a very vague outline for FFVII - he didn't work on the script for the final product. He barely had anything to do with FFIX, but Square managed to fool a lot of fanboys with the marketing for that game.

But there's no denying his impact on the genre in creating a series that would eventually mature into something bigger without him.



I think you're arguing with the wrong guy. I'm telling Eteric Rice that FF has always been a mix of high technology and old fantasy. :)
And what I'm saying is it seems to be more technology than Fantasy now. That's all. :| In Final Fantasy VI, you could walk into Figaro (I think that was the name, it's been a while) and it looked like a normal castle.

UNTIL! :D

You went to the bottom. And then later on you find out that it's a sand submarine castle!

I think even VII had a good mix of this. But XII was just way to much on the futuristic side for me. XIII seems to be panning out the same way.

I just prefer the old formula is all. :)
 

Ceb

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Eteric Rice said:
And what I'm saying is it seems to be more technology than Fantasy now. That's all. :| In Final Fantasy VI, you could walk into Figaro (I think that was the name, it's been a while) and it looked like a normal castle.

UNTIL! :D

You went to the bottom. And then later on you find out that it's a sand submarine castle!

I think even VII had a good mix of this. But XII was just way to much on the futuristic side for me. XIII seems to be panning out the same way.

I just prefer the old formula is all. :)
OK, I get what you're saying, but all of the modern FFs have their share of rinky-dink locations lacking in hi-tech components. And even if some of the games are more advanced than the others in the overall level of technology present in the game world, isn't it nice to have some variation?

Maybe we should just agree to disagree. :)
 

Merovingian

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Still looking forward to the next FF that is as good as FFVIII from a style and Story perspective.

So far...average after average. FFXII has amazing style, and omg the story could have been amazing, the judges are soo badass looking. But the story sucked, and the characters, give me a break.

Cloud and Squall were badasses, all i get is mother****in pussies now. Hey maybe the FF13 chick will have more balls than the last two blondies.
 

Logan Cano

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Merovingian said:
Still looking forward to the next FF that is as good as FFVIII from a style and Story perspective.

So far...average after average. FFXII has amazing style, and omg the story could have been amazing, the judges are soo badass looking. But the story sucked, and the characters, give me a break.
Yeah, Square really dropped the ball with XII. A story centered around the judges would have been so much better than Vaan's "adventure" following a Bond-wannabe. I can't believe how bad the story was, and how little you get to see of the characters. The entire game could have been so much better than what we got.

Cloud and Squall were badasses, all i get is mother****in pussies now. Hey maybe the FF13 chick will have more balls than the last two blondies.
Probably. I did like Tidus though, he was ok. Vaan needs to be shot though. :p
 

Eteric Rice

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Ceb said:
OK, I get what you're saying, but all of the modern FFs have their share of rinky-dink locations lacking in hi-tech components. And even if some of the games are more advanced than the others in the overall level of technology present in the game world, isn't it nice to have some variation?

Maybe we should just agree to disagree. :)
Yeah, variation is nice I suppose. :) And I can agree to disagree, we just like different styles is all. ;)
 

Hcoregamer00

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Captain N said:
great read! thanks for putting all that time into writing all of that...an chance we'd be able to see Final Fantasy VII on the DS?
What?? :lol

At best a port of the PSX game, at worst another spinoff.
 

Logan Cano

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Eteric Rice said:
Fan, I'm a fan, not a fanboy. :p I do plan on getting a 360 sometime this year, ya know. :)
Oh, come on, you are the guy that couldn't take the wii being called last gen hw, and came up with a huge argument about sales and shit. Just be a man and admit it. :p
 

Hcoregamer00

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Eteric Rice said:
I'll put my money on a port. :|
There is absolutely nothing wrong with a port of some kind for FFVII.

As long as it retains the horrible translation and the FMV's. They also need to improve it because I want to have a female character on screen instead of having cloud 97% of the time (with Tifa taking the last 3%).
 

Eteric Rice

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Logan Cano said:
Oh, come on, you are the guy that couldn't take the wii being called last gen hw, and came up with a huge argument about sales and shit. Just be a man and admit it. :p
If I were a fanboy I wouldn't own a PS1 and PS2, now would I? :p Like I said, I'm also going to get a 360, too.

I will say that I'm biased against Sony these days, though. Their comments (you'll get a second job, etc) pissed me off more so than the price.

My favorite company is Nintendo, though. I grew up with em, after all. :) But it doesn't mean I don't enjoy the other systems as well (I had a Genesis during the 16-bit era, don't tell anyone , I fear for my life).
 

Logan Cano

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Hcoregamer00 said:
There is absolutely nothing wrong with a port of some kind for FFVII.

As long as it retains the horrible translation and the FMV's. They also need to improve it because I want to have a female character on screen instead of having cloud 97% of the time (with Tifa taking the last 3%).
I wouldn't expect that on the DS. FMVs would have to be dropped, they can't possibly fit in those tiny cartridges.
 

Hcoregamer00

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Logan Cano said:
I wouldn't expect that on the DS. FMVs would have to be dropped, they can't possibly fit in those tiny cartridges.
Larger Cartidges + Compression will work wonders.

Especially since the original FFVII had none of it.
 

Eteric Rice

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Christopher said:
you are a fanboy, and an annoying one at that in every thread "bubub why not for the Wii"
Because there's usually some tard in the thread bitching about how some game shouldn't be on the Wii. See NiGHTS and Rygar. :p
 

Datschge

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If for nothing else Sakaguchi at least deserves credit for compiling the leading staff for all FF games from I to XII.

I think it's quite telling that since his leaving the FF brand is becoming popular for being grossly over-milked
and people say the Tales series is bad in that regard?
. And the next FF is still way off, being turned into a series of its own. Most likely because there is noone left who'd be in the position to decide the staff for a single FFXIII while of course everyone at former Square wants to be involved.
 

Ceb

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Datschge said:
I think it's quite telling that since his leaving the FF brand is becoming popular for being grossly over-milked
and people say the Tales series is bad in that regard?
.
I'd say we have Yoicihi Wada to "thank" for that. He's the shitheel who introduced the focus on polymorphic content and gave us "World of Mana", "Compilation of FFVII", "Ivalice Alliance"... and Code Age, hadn't it been a supreme bomba.
 

Hcoregamer00

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..pakbeka.. said:
why does every FF7-related thread always ends up in the mythical discussion of FF7 on DS?
This talk about FF7 on the DS is just as improbable as talk about a PS3 remake.

The only thing that is remotely probable is a PSP version because they could recycle the crisis core engine.

Even that is a mixed signal because SquareEnix seems to be content with remaking the games people don't want or have played before.
 

tebiro boy

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Ceb said:
I'd say we have Yoicihi Wada to "thank" for that. He's the shitheel who introduced the focus on polymorphic content and gave us "World of Mana", "Compilation of FFVII", "Ivalice Alliance"... and Code Age, hadn't it been a supreme bomba.
I don't think there's a problem with the concept per se; it's just that most of the games (going from what people have said, since I haven't played them myself) have been a bit rubbish. That said, FFVII:AC I enjoyed, and Code Age I also enjoyed (especially the manga).

I quite like the concept of having lots of different games (or movies, manga) using variations on the same base mythology/concept, and I'm quite looking forward to the FFXIII collection. *shrug*
 

jett

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Datschge said:
I think it's quite telling that since his leaving the FF brand is becoming popular for being grossly over-milked.
Enix is responsible that shit, which wouldn't have happened if they hadn't bought SE("merged"), which wouldn't have happened if Sucakaguchi hadn't singlehandedly brought down the company with his piece of shit movie.

So, in essence, it really is his fault the "Square" of today acts the way it does. :p
 

OtwoloBotawa

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jett said:
Enix is responsible that shit
It's pretty much Wada and Nomura's fault both are from Square.

I haven't seen enix milking DQ in such a blatant way, like square does it with Final Fantasy.

I'm too lazy to reply any more to you, just never post again.
 

SolidSnakex

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OtwoloBotawa said:
I haven't seen enix milking DQ in such a blatant way, like square does it with Final Fantasy.
Absolutely, its not as if they've got DQSwords, Monsters, Torneko ect.
 

Ceb

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tebiro boy said:
I quite like the concept of having lots of different games (or movies, manga) using variations on the same base mythology/concept, and I'm quite looking forward to the FFXIII collection. *shrug*
Fabula Nova Crystallis is different though, since all the games are connected very loosely. With "World of Mana", resources were put towards... what, 4 or 5 Mana games? Resources that could've been put towards making, oh I dunno, a new Chrono or PE or Einhänder or something new. :p
 

OtwoloBotawa

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SolidSnakex said:
Absolutely, its not as if they've got DQSwords, Monsters, Torneko ect.
Square had stuff like Chocobo's Dungeon even before they merged with Enix. Also the DQ spinoffs are all good games.
I haven't seen DQV-2, DQIV: BEFORE SLIME, DQVII-X 2.0, DQI: INTERNATIONAL EDITION , ALLIANCE OF DRAGONQUEST and so on. If you seriously want to say that Enix milks DQ as hard as Square milks FF you're having some problems with your reality perception.
 

Zweisy1

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Enix is responsible that shit, which wouldn't have happened if they hadn't bought SE("merged"), which wouldn't have happened if Sucakaguchi hadn't singlehandedly brought down the company with his piece of shit movie.

So, in essence, it really is his fault the "Square" of today acts the way it does. :p
At least Sakaguchi's FF's were decent, slightly above average RPGs for their time... The stuff Kitase has come up with is just trash.
 

SolidSnakex

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OtwoloBotawa said:
Square had stuff like Chocobo's Dungeon even before they merged with Enix. Also the DQ spinoffs are all good games.
I haven't seen DQV-2, DQIV: BEFORE SLIME, DQVII-X 2.0, DQI: INTERNATIONAL EDITION , ALLIANCE OF DRAGONQUEST and so on. If you seriously want to say that Enix milks DQ as hard as Square milks FF you're having some problems with your reality perception.
I didn't say they did milk it as much as Square does FF, but they do milk it. There are many spinoffs of the games. People attack FF for it having many games but then act like the same doesn't go on with DQ. The big difference is that all the FF's tend to come out in the US now while DQ's are often left in Japan and people just forget about them.
 

OtwoloBotawa

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SolidSnakex said:
I didn't say they did milk it as much as Square does FF, but they do milk it. There are many spinoffs of the games. People attack FF for it having many games but then act like the same doesn't go on with DQ. The big difference is that all the FF's tend to come out in the US now while DQ's are often left in Japan and people just forget about them.
People bitch about the final fantasy spinoffs because they are mostly poor in quality and infected by nomura's horrible visual-k subculture fetish.
If they'd crap out good games people would bitch far less.
 

SolidSnakex

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They hardly mostly poor. The majority of them are at the least good games, you do have your DoC's, but those aren't the usually quality. And the "main" games are always good even if they aren't your thing.
 

Grivenger and 27 others

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At least Sakaguchi's FF's were decent, slightly above average RPGs for their time... The stuff Kitase has come up with is just trash.
Trash like FFVI that is, alongside Chrono Trigger, one of the most loved SNES RPGs ever created, and trash like FFVII/ FFVIII/ FFX, which are the most commercially successful FFs, being FFVII one of the most over-rated games ever. I don't consider Sakaguchi's FFII or FFV to be an example of slightly above average RPGs (well, at least FFV's gameplay was awesome...). His FFI was an excellent start, his FFIV was a classic, and the story he wrote for FFIX was pretty charmful even though it re-used many cliché concepts... Like I said before, Sakaguchi is the kind of guy that is either over-rated or under-rated. Same for Kitase, I guess.