Nomura already said it was upper management decision and that he can't say no more. I doubt will ever know more just like in Matsuno case.
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Nomura already said it was upper management decision and that he can't say no more. I doubt will ever know more just like in Matsuno case.
Death Penalty
Member
I'd love to know this too. Nomura's involvement is one of the main reasons I was interested in the first place. That hokey bastard knows how to make a cool game.
Go_Ly_Dow
Member
Too me, Nomura's combat system seemed to lack the weight of the current combat system and looked much more scrappy. Maybe it was down to the character switching and lack of design built around 1 character like the current system has.
Yeah i feel the same way, I'm just hoping they at least don't change the story.
Go_Ly_Dow
Member
Any link please?
I'm still salty
I don't care, I just am.
Look, I am not gonna be biased against Tabata.If he delivers a great game then it will be to his credit and the result of years of hard work and dedication.No doubt about that.
But did SE as a whole fail to deliver a specific vision they promised for years(with hype culminating at E313) ? Yes,they totally did.
This doesn't necessarily detract from the game being made right now ,but it does detract from SE's reputation to me personally as a fan.
Go_Ly_Dow
Member
that sucks. poor guy.
my feeling it probably was over disagreements on key elements such as character switching
JuanLatino
Member
some people were even claiming, that nomura would get sacked after KH3 (or leave on his own)
But Verendus is saying, that Nomura will take a Key Role for the FF7 Remake (alongside Kitase)
So i hope that is true, and Nomura is still a respected man at Square Enix
But Verendus is saying, that Nomura will take a Key Role for the FF7 Remake (alongside Kitase)
So i hope that is true, and Nomura is still a respected man at Square Enix
The way I see it is it does go back to engine issues. There's no way any of their tech could have supported Nomura's vision throughout that entire period.
Should compromises have been made? I'm ambivalent. We'll never know at this point.
MultiJhonny
Banned
I think people are getting to much in a tizzy over this not being Nomura's game anymore. Before he left Tabata said that they were making sure this was still conceptually Nomura's. It seems that was the slow let go instead of the immediate firing. I don't think that the E3 2013 reveal lied to us at all. Nomura said in interviews right after that what we saw was a Noctis at a really high level and Tabata has said that the Noctis we have seen now is at a lower level close to the beginning of the game, which makes sense. People jump to too many conclusions except I can't blame people with how long we have been waiting for this game. I think Nomura's vision is still very much alive it was just too early back then to really know exactly what he meant.
DiipuSurotu
Banned
He can have a key role in the FFVII remake even if he leaves though, as a freelancer similar to Matsuno on the Tactics Ogre remake.
We'll never know, and honestly I don't think any of us here really do know. I can be at peace with that.
Those questioning how good the game was before compared to how it is now, do you really think Square would sacrifice the quality of a game just because? Especially after it gets announced as a mainline game?
Those questioning how good the game was before compared to how it is now, do you really think Square would sacrifice the quality of a game just because? Especially after it gets announced as a mainline game?
JuanLatino
Member
fire someone who will be the potential director/co-director of your most important game of the past years?
And if Nomura leaves on his own, i dont think he wants to work again with SE.
Lets wait until next year:
The more KH3 Infos we get, the more Nomura will talk. Maybe he will give us some hints of his actual state in Square Enix
birthbysleep
Member
Nomura probably just wasn't a very good director. Conception and being a visionary are his strong suits, not communication. He said the pressures of directing a mainline installment are far greater than KH or a spinoff title so he probably is just not meant to be a leader in the day to day production. He's been known to be a bit of a recluse and a rather shy individual, which is stark contrast to the charismatic Tabata, who is probably a big reason we're getting these semi-frequent updates.
KoopaTheCasual
Junior Member
I feel like it was exactly this tied with the entire scope of the project. Nomura probably wanted to do it all with this game, and higher ups were like, "no, that's unrealistic, and it'll take forever" and he was pushed off the project =/
Yes, it has nothing to do with the fact that development of games has become about a billion times more demanding than even their biggest PS1 games and even mid-budget games aren't exactly small affairs anymore. Sadly the days of any publisher being able to keep up with the insane release schedules from their SNES/PS1 days are long over. While you can argue they have done some poor decisions (releasing XIV 1.0 in the first place and then fixing it at the expense of pretty much everything else, pumping out FFXIII games despite their relatively poor reception), not being able to keep up with their crazy game development pace of their Squresoft days isn't all about mismanagement. Whereas they could go from conceptualizing into having a team of 30-50 develop Vagrant Story all within a couple of years, if they wanted to develop something relatively similar on PS4, they'd easily have to double or triple the team size and/or add a year of development time, if they want to make something that looks like a PS4 game and would have a tiny chance of success (most people would dismiss it in a second if it looked like a mid budget PS2 game in 1080p).
The only publishers that are even near to their old release output (as far as quantity goes, not necessarily quality) are the kind that have grown a lot since then (and even they are quite far from those "golden days"), but Square Enix doesn't quite have the luxury to be able to do so because JRPGs aren't any kind of gold mine for publishers nowadays.
Haven't they confirmed a separate mobile and/or Vita companion app? Could just have something to do with that, considering they have scrapped the idea of several playable characters (if a coop mode had you play with the other characters, why wouldn't the main single player game?)SE job posting looking for someone working on online game(s) related to FFXV:
https://js01.jposting.net/square-enix/u/creator/job.phtml?job_code=450
Seperate online component for FFXV or an eventual FFXV-2 with a bigger emphasis on online/co-op?
I'd say the fact that the past couple of years have been weaker would be a reason to try to bring FFXV out by the end of March 2016. After already having a pretty weak past two years, will they want to have a third weak one? At least before they had XIV ARR's development as an excuse for having more silent years in terms of releases, but that excuse is long gone.
And them not announcing a release year yet is not all that damning. They didn't commit to a Winter 2009 release for FFXIII until April 2009. If we don't have a release quarter for Q1 2016 at E3 2015 at latest, then I'll believe FFXV will probably not arrive by the end of their next fiscal year. Before that they might just want to until they are more certain they can deliver on their promise or even have an exact date and I'll remain hopeful. Tabata's "it will be released a little later than people think" might just be about them not quite following a similar release schedule as FFXIII did after the demo (demo in April 2009 -> release 8 months later), not that it's still 2 years away from release.
http://kotaku.com/5274775/final-fantasy-xiii-still-on-track-for-winter-2009-release
Announcing games is different from releasing them. What games could they realistically announce to fill rest of their fiscal year?
Dream Drop Distance HD is probable
Ito was only coming up with ideas for his next project around the time they were finishing A Realm Reborn in Q3 2013, so unless it's a mobile game, I doubt it'll be released until mid 2016 at earliest, probably a lot later if it's (hopefully) a bigger scale console release
Toriyama finished his last game only a year ago, so while he'll possibly announce his next game in 2015, I doubt it'll release before we are well into 2016 (at earliest), could even be a 2017 title if it's for consoles.
SaGa we already know is coming in 2015
Seiken Densetsu's 25th anniversary is in 2016 so they are probably not going to release anything bigger Mana related in 2015.
Osaka Team is developing KHIII for late 2016 or beyond release
DQXI is under development but we have no idea how far along it is. Could be anywhere from mid 2016 to late 2017 or beyond, but doubtful it's a 2015 release when they haven't even shown a glimpse of it so far.
The new console RPG studio they set up? Probably still building up the team and in the early phases of the project(s) they are going to develop
Collaborations?
Final Fantasy Explorers was just released so that team will take at least 2+ years from now to release their new game, even if it's "just" a portable game
Silicon Studios is finishing Bravely Second so obviously they aren't going to release anything to fill out the rest of the next fiscal year
Dragon Quest Heroes will be out in a couple of months, so there's probably nothing else from Tecmo Koei x Square Enix for Q2 2015-Q1 2016
indiezero is finishing up Theatrhythm: Dragon Quest
Matrix Software seems to have been delegated to mobile ports and even if their next game is not a mobile game it will probably be a smaller scale release and release it in 2016.
Tri-Ace? Will Square Enix work with them ever again as anything other than temporary help with getting SQEX IPs out?
Square Enix has a lot cooking behind the scenes but I believe that due to XIV ARR being such a resource hog and putting the whole company in such disarray until Q3 2013, most of the stuff that they have started developing after ARR's release probably won't start materializing until 2016.
MultiJhonny
Banned
Exactly. Tabata and Nomura have talked about what conceptually should stay and that this was still Nomura's vision just that Tabata had to actually implement and fix things, and cut/add where necessary most likely. And it seems that Tabata is also extremely ambitious as well. In a coupe interviews he says he wants to create the greatest FF and thats good to hear. Now if he can pull it off..
I can't really talk about it yet. Maybe in the future.
It's... it's too painful right now
JuanLatino
Member
it will be a shame and disrespectful (in my opininion) if Nomura doesnt get mentioned in the credits as the former director.
The whole concept, story, characters and the World of this Game are from his fingers.
If this turns out to be one of the greatest FF Titles of the past years, Nomura should get the same honour as tabata
The whole concept, story, characters and the World of this Game are from his fingers.
If this turns out to be one of the greatest FF Titles of the past years, Nomura should get the same honour as tabata
Go_Ly_Dow
Member
Going back on what i said and contradicting myself....it's easy to jump to conclusions on what factor changed what element.
For example, let's look at the element of blood. This was a element shown and discussed in the early Versus days around 2008.
-shown in 2008
-in mid 2010 blood was still in the game.
-in early 2011 blood was still in but significantly reduced.
-finally in 2013 it was completely gone (probably decided upon earlier than that but that's when we could first see the change)
So what we know is under Nomura direction this change was made......now imagine if blood was still in prior to Tabata's involvement and then completely gone when the game was shown under his direction. naturally many on here would jump the gun and accuse this changing element on him despite not much evidence.
Point is we assume stuff like character switching removal occurred under Tabata's direction but who really knows. At the end of the day no one man has a say on key things like this no matter there position because the game is not worked on by just that one person. Input on key elements will be given by many.
http://www.joystiq.com/2009/01/15/reuters-final-fantasy-xiii-coming-2009-to-japan-overseas-after/
They revealed in January 2009, actually Famassu, that XIII would would be releasing in Japan in 2009 and overseas in 2010.
Trying to see if the DKS3713 trailer from 2008 also had 2009 in it...
Edit: Yeah it did. So from August 2008 they had 2009 in the trailer.
They revealed in January 2009, actually Famassu, that XIII would would be releasing in Japan in 2009 and overseas in 2010.
Trying to see if the DKS3713 trailer from 2008 also had 2009 in it...
Edit: Yeah it did. So from August 2008 they had 2009 in the trailer.
Blood was still in the game, but it was Noctis who bled. The Behemoth hitting him would release blood as well as when he's at low health.
We've seen Noctis at low health at TGS 2014, and we didn't see any blood. May have been due to the camera but who knows?
But yeah, a lot of people associate the bad with Tabata and all the good with Nomura. That's way too black and white and just incorrect.
DiipuSurotu
Banned
It's possible if it's the same situation as Matsuno's. Matsuno left SE, we don't clearly know if he left on his own or if he was forced out, but he still worked on the Tactics Ogre remake and was the director in all but name (according to Hiroshi Minagawa).
Are these comments for real?
When Nomura says he's not a very good director, he's just being humble.
The dude delivered the KH series and ,particularly, KH2 : SE's best product since the merger.The gameplay is amazing nearly a decade later.
Nomura's a wicked director.Its just that VERSUSXIII's development was so messed up for a multitude of reasons that'll save myself from retreading in this post.
Go_Ly_Dow
Member
I haven't managed to catch that.
Here's an example of the type of blood the project originally had back in 2010.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRF_4Ewaxt4
KoopaTheCasual
Junior Member
You're right. There's hardly any solid info out right now to make a call on who did what anymore. I really hope in due time the whole story comes to light.
Even if it's years later, I'd really like to know the whole scoop =/
JuanLatino
Member
i dont think you can compare those two scenarios.
Nomura is one of the most important employees of Square Enix. He coined the whole company with his designs and games.
Sacking someone like him or letting him go, would mean, something drastical happened.
Even in interviews of Square Enix, the staff is always talking with respect and admiration about nomura. Some even say he is a legend they never saw in person.
Also, i dont think you can compare a small game like tactics ogre, to the potential most risky and biggest project of your company.
Probably..
Undoubtedly the game's development wasn't going smoothly for many reasons outside of(and within) Nomura's control.
But its unfortunate that this game didn't go through after so many years...just ugh...
Go_Ly_Dow
Member
nice catch!
MultiJhonny
Banned
I'm not saying he is a bad director. He just doesn't like it and has stated that in interviews before. He always says he likes the conceptual side of things alot more. Hell even with KH3 the recent interview with the head of the Osaka studio said that they are doing most of the technical stuff and he has been on the conceptual side.
While the Luminous project obviously didn't go as planned either, it doesn't seem like quite as bad a failure as Crystal Tools. The Crystal Tools were utter shit and restricted game development (i.e. it wasn't good for big open spaces, they had tons of problems when trying to create XIV 1.0 with them etc.), whereas while Luminous' development wasn't problem free, they seem to still be able to develop a game of FFXV's scope, visual quality & overall ambition with Luminous.
They way they talked about it sounded like there is a magic system, but they still deem it to LOOK a bit underwhelming and don't want to show it until they think it's as impressive as the rest of the game.
Well, that's only a few months earlier than the Kotaku article I linked to (which was to a more accurate Winter 2009 release time frame announcement). That still means that a March 2016 release could be announced in the next few months if they followed past hype/marketing schedule and us not having it yet isn't too alarming. For the game to still take 20+ months sounds excessive for a game they are already showing this much and which has been in mass content creation phase for closer to half a year if not longer.
They pretty much owed that to the fans. And it's not as big a mess-up as something like the announcement of FFVsXIII when they weren't even going to start development (in any kind of big way) anytime soon after the announcement. In comparison, KHIII's development started soon after DDD's completion in 2012 and they could actually show some (super-)early gameplay footage a few months after the announcement. The wait is still long, but we don't have to doubt whether the game is in development or not.
No they didn't.
Also realize much of what is shown of XV is from the demo so it's only natural we'd be seeing that stuff as its in development.
NoctisVsStar
Member
The quicker people accept FFXV is Q3/Q4 2016 title everyone will happy =]
threelights
Member
If the february stream is not something that interests you, then we don't know when the next info is coming. Probably after the demo, so E3.
MagnaderAlpha
Member
C'mon, logically speaking... Q4 2017 sounds reasonable!
NoctisVsStar
Member
Well, not necessarily owed, but I think it was still just better to announce it and make fans happy instead of acting coy and basically all but officially confirming it. I mean, I & many others already guessed that the "big new project" Osaka Team was talking about somewhere along late 2012-early 2013 was KHIII, so it would have done them no good to try to hide it. I'd rather know that they are developing it than having them be all quiet since DDD's release in 2012. As long as they never do anything like the 2006 FNC extravaganza anymore, I don't mind an early announcement of a project like KHIII at all.
Sure, but Tabata said the game is around 55-60% complete at TGS (and they have presumably not just sat around twiddling their thumbs since then), so obviously they have a lot more done of the game than just the demo area which is probably <4-5% of the full game (if the Duscaea region is less than 1/10th of the full game area and the demo area is only a small part of it), even if much of it is in such an incomplete state that they don't want to show it yet.
It just seems like they aren't showing a lot of the other stuff because they don't want to spoil too much of it too soon (they don't want to spoil story, possible guest characters, what other old school FF enemies they have recreated, what kind of locations they have created in addition to the fairly normal looking Duscaea etc.), in addition to a lot of it still being too incomplete to show. If I had to guess, I'd wager that Insomnia, Accordo and the new town (I'm blanking on the name atm, Lessarum?) and all of their surrounding areas are pretty far along in development while other places (Nilfheim, Tenebrae etc.) are still more incomplete.
Astral Dog
Member
Yes, FFXV is not Versus XIII anymore, it has changed conceptually to become something else, that isn't a bad thing necessarily, just the result of a vision that couldn't be completed for whatever reasons.
They're making a game called Final Fantasy Lesson for Morphieus where you sit in a room and talk to lighting the whole time.
(wearing a cat suit)
Of course, this is what Toriyama has been working on.
threelights
Member
I talk to lighting?
Oh my shiny lamp, tell me your secrets, tell me how you can shine so bright.
JuanLatino
Member
it will be used as a therapy in hospitals, to help people overcome their fears.
birthbysleep
Member
Outside of the character switching, KH-like battle system, and possibly Stella, XV seems to be delivering all of the concrete info we had on Versus. By concrete info I mean not the Nomura conjecture of "the development team is looking for ways to incorporate such and such". Like Noctis's cellphone use for example.