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Fighting Games Weekly | Apr 13-19 | This Netkode Is An Injustice

A

Anne

Member
I mean I will say, she has to work stupid hard for a basic mix up game most chars have, she just does it way more efficiently on average(so far). With the rest of her tools it makes her seem pretty good though.
 
G

GuardianE

Santa May Claus
Juicebox_FGC said:
Frame data does not decide what combos and what doesn't in Mortal Kombat (usually). Almost all combos are hard-coded or otherwise defined by the devs, with the exception of juggles, which have increasing gravity rules.

If move X is +30 (or whatever) and you try to link something but the AI can block it, it isn't because you didn't have enough advantage. It's because in the code there is a clause that says "If hit by move X, the player who was hit can block during the stagger animation". Of course, they still have to block high or low correctly, but they cannot input anything else for those 30~whatever frames.

For an exception to this rule, pick A-list Johnny Cage and do 1-2-1~dash 1-2. In this case, dash cancelling the third attack in the first string and hitting 1 as soon as you come out of the dash combos, even though a new string has started. If you dash cancel or start the next string too slowly, it will not combo. The above mentioned clause is not present for johnny's 121 string in A-list, and that hit advantage is "true" (street fighter-style) hitstun.
Click to expand...

Juicebox_FGC said:
Yes, this is more or less what the Fatal8 players did in the 2 days they had. They tried canceling various parts of strings into specials to see what combos together.

Some other notables:
- all strings are natural combos
- there are no counter-hits
- forward/backwards jumping punch combos into any string or any raw special (input the first hit of the string when the punch connects)
- long stagger animations that give huge frame advantage are still good. Use them to force an opponent to block a jumping punch. If your combo did 25%, it actually does 25%+chip (of course, you could also mix them up when they block the jump punch).
Click to expand...

Thanks for this. It'll help change my approach to the game.
 
C

Clawww

Member
phaonaut said:
Not sure if Claw is thinking of the same thing, but I dislike when, hand based specials are tied to kick buttons and vice versa.

Ex. Reptile forceball being mapped to kick
Click to expand...

I just don't understand the 'logic' behind the inputs. I guess in some cases the way combos buffer means they don't want certain specials to cancel out of certain strings, but what's up with [f,b,f] inputs when [d,f] isn't being
used? and why are some fireballs [b,f] and others [d,f]? In fact aren't kung jin's two arrow specials [d,f] and [d,b]? just seems strangely obtuse instead of streamlined. maybe I'm being dumb and there's a good reason for it but I don't see it.

and [b,d] can eat a dick (Mileena's roll)

also I'm only getting EX moves out like 1/3 of the time. using my brother's xbox one controller on PC--maybe somethings wrong on my end because it's pretty annoying
 
shaowebb

shaowebb

Member
So far I'm enjoying MKX. The runs and dashes take a bit of adjusting to (especially for combos) and its a rhythm that is a work in progress for me. Surprisingly none of the big guys have clicked yet for me. I generally do good with power guys but not in this title so far.

As is...my best is likely Sonya Blade. Still working through the cast, but this isn't much of a surprise. Her and Smoke were my MK9 go to folk for the short period I had with it.
 
A

Anne

Member
Something else about the input system that really bothers me is that if you buffer a dash cancel while holding down the button, if you let go of the button before the dash comes out, the dash is no longer buffered and the special move just comes out. Like I kind of see why they did it like that, but it makes run cancelling timings super awkward considering you have to buffer everything else years ahead of time.
 
V

vocab

Member
The negative edge in NRS games always bothered me. Seems very agressive and I just always end up with execution errors. I just turn it off.
 
S

Skilletor

Member
Anne said:
Something else about the input system that really bothers me is that if you buffer a dash cancel while holding down the button, if you let go of the button before the dash comes out, the dash is no longer buffered and the special move just comes out. Like I kind of see why they did it like that, but it makes run cancelling timings super awkward considering you have to buffer everything else years ahead of time.
Click to expand...

My problem with MKX in a nutshell.

Keep trying, just need to realize these games aren't for me.

But then I'll be in line for Injustice 2 on day 1 because...I have to buy fighters. :(
 
A

Anne

Member
vocab said:
The negative edge in NRS games always bothered me. Seems very agressive and I just always end up with execution errors. I just turn it off.
Click to expand...

With the way MK's input system is designed, NE is basically a necessity for cancelling single hits into specials. Like the input system is fine and makes sense for the most part, there's just a couple of weird arbitrary rules specific to this one that weird me out. I can get used to it and do it, but the logic behind it just doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. They don't want you to buffer an accidental run so you can let go to stop it from happening? Why make it work like that when the rest of the inputs ask you to do something way ahead of time?

Everything works fine until dash and run cancels get involved. Feels like they kind of just coded them in there without thinking too hard on how they'd work with the rest of the system. That seems like a pretty NRS thing to do.
 
N

Nyoro SF

Member
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";160419916]Speaking of announcements, I need my SFV fix.


Talk to me Capcom![/QUOTE]

Too busy getting ready to cut out finished characters in the PC version to sell the PS4 version as a leading platform
god, that used to be a joke back in 2010
 
C

Clawww

Member
Nyoro SF said:
Too busy getting ready to cut out finished characters in the PC version to sell the PS4 version as a leading platform
god, that used to be a joke back in 2010
Click to expand...

I'm so excited to see how they're going to screw PC this time

maybe it'll be something more creative than a release gap

I would love to not have console exclusive characters!
 
B

BakedYams

Slayer of Combofiends
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";160419916]Speaking of announcements, I need my SFV fix.


Talk to me Capcom![/QUOTE]

They haven't done it at any CPT event, which is a waste in my opinion, so they'll probably leave some news for E3, maybe Gamescom, TGS, EVO and Capcom Cup.
 
B

Bob White

Member
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";160414129]I was gonna make a comment about what this means regarding women in MMA and the reputation NRS has with their female model quality.



But that would be tasteless of me.[/QUOTE]

lol
 
T

twozerotwo

Member
Kadey said:
Some UFC fighter is making a fuss about Cassie Cage being a ripoff of her.
Click to expand...
Let's not talk about her.

Can't stand that bitch. The definition of an attention whore.

Anyone have any tips for dash canceling? I've been trying some Cassie combos but they all involve dash canceling and I always fuck up on it.
 
A

Anne

Member
twozerotwo said:
Anyone have any tips for dash canceling? I've been trying some Cassie combos but they all involve dash canceling and I always fuck up on it.
Click to expand...

Once you input the special, don't hit forward again until the special is coming out. It will cancel out the special input.

Don't let go of the special move button until the run is coming out.

If you need to cancel into a move immediately, you can input forward+block, then forward+move. If you hit forward+block then forward, you don't get a dash, you instantly start running. If you input a button along with the second forward or a frame or two later, you won't even see your character run, that move will just come out instead.
 
K

KidA Seven

Member
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";160419916]Speaking of announcements, I need my SFV fix.


Talk to me Capcom![/QUOTE]

You'll have to wait for next weekend.

ip4RASit6I0IU.gif
 
A

Arttemis

Member
Compared to MK9, the necessary input speed seems at least 50% faster. Kind of a bummer, because everything felt more organic and flowing. In MKX, I feel like I have to enter entire portions of my combo strings in before the second hit ever lands, and then do it again once my queued special comes out. In MK9, I entered each following combo string as they were ready to happen. That felt so much more natural, more in-control, less dial-a-combo.
 
S

Skilletor

Member
Arttemis said:
Compared to MK9, the necessary input speed seems at least 50% faster. Kind of a bummer, because everything felt more organic and flowing. In MKX, I feel like I have to enter entire portions of my combo strings in before the second hit ever lands, and then do it again once my queued special comes out. In MK9, I entered each following combo string as they were ready to happen. That felt so much more natural, more in-control, less dial-a-combo.
Click to expand...

What you've described is exactly how mk9 and injustice feel like to me. I feel no difference on mkx inputs.
 
A

Anne

Member
petghost said:
Why is negative edge even a toggle? Are they afraid someone gonna find something broke with it ala t hawk os?
Click to expand...

Because the way inputs work in MK, it's easy to get NE inputs you might not have wanted. Like if you do d1, but you accidentally hit down+forward immediately after, you'll get d1 cancelled into df1, since down+forward just counts as forward. I mean, it's just a consideration to let the player decide how they feel about it. Alternate inputs help alleviate that exact situation as well, but will cause things like bf to be a half circle which is hella lame.
 
H

Horseress

Member
Anne said:
Because the way inputs work in MK, it's easy to get NE inputs you might not have wanted. Like if you do d1, but you accidentally hit down+forward immediately after, you'll get d1 cancelled into df1, since down+forward just counts as forward. I mean, it's just a consideration to let the player decide how they feel about it. Alternate inputs help alleviate that exact situation as well, but will cause things like bf to be a half circle which is hella lame.
Click to expand...

I found this out like half hour ago :lol was trying to cancel Cassie's 2,1 into bf 3 but always got bf 1 instead. Disabled negative edge and no more execution problems
 
C

Clawww

Member
Arttemis said:
Compared to MK9, the necessary input speed seems at least 50% faster. Kind of a bummer, because everything felt more organic and flowing. In MKX, I feel like I have to enter entire portions of my combo strings in before the second hit ever lands, and then do it again once my queued special comes out. In MK9, I entered each following combo string as they were ready to happen. That felt so much more natural, more in-control, less dial-a-combo.
Click to expand...

does anyone even like dial a combos

i wish they would try an MK spinoff with some new/hijacked core mechanics

give it to niitsuma he aint doing shit
 
P

petghost

Banned
Clawww said:
does anyone even like dial a combos

i wish they would try an MK spinoff with some new/hijacked core mechanics

give it to niitsuma he aint doing shit
Click to expand...

I was just thinking of how rad ki would be if they got rid of their gimmicky combo system as well. They are doing some unique stuff with char design.

Like I understand that ki is known for combo breakers and ultra combos or whatever but it seems like a shifty legacy to be burdened with.
 
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