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Fighting Games Weekly | Jan 6-12 | Nothing Happened HD Remix

K.Sabot

Member
You have to re-configure yourself to do low forward by starting from down/back, almost doing a HCF to do a Fireball and not have it come out a DP. Basically, you want to do the fireball like you are doing the Rose fireball.

You will still get a DP sometimes but this method lowers that chance greatly.

I know, but it's dumb that I have to limit myself that way.

It's the reason Makoto's f.lp > lp.hayate is her hardest combo ( I have more luck doing the Ma*****)

Edit: what the fuck, do I have some sort of virus that is censoring my ability to say K-ombo? ***** ***** *****
 

Lost Fragment

Obsessed with 4chan
I want to live in the alternate universe where the N64 wrestling games went on to have a competitive scene. Always wanted to see what high level play in those games would be like.
 

A Pretty Panda

fuckin' called it, man
I know, but it's dumb that I have to limit myself that way.

It's the reason Makoto's f.lp > lp.hayate is her hardest combo ( I have more luck doing the Ma*****)

Edit: what the fuck, do I have some sort of virus that is censoring my ability to say K-ombo? ***** ***** *****

This is Mortal Kombat's fault.
 

enzo_gt

tagged by Blackace
( I have more luck doing the Ma*****)
Doing the... MaBERNIE?

Mortal_31a798_1812615.gif
 

Jazz-ism

Banned
Street Fighter 4 is a 5/6 year old game. The way inputs are read in this game is retarded but if you practice this is a habit and adaptation you can easily make over time.

what you cant out practice are:

1) the way blockstun is, in tandem with the HUGE reversal window

2) 20% of the cast having TERRIBLE design that imo ruins some integrity of the game(Elf, seth, ibuki, akuma, etc...)

3) Bad hitbox/hurtbox issues that have been in the game through each version until now.
(unblockables etc...)



you can outpractice the shitty inputs. you cant outpractice the above. The input system is a problem but imo the above is much more critical.

Anyway, I never get ex fukiage instead of ex hayate after cr.mp. Step ur shit up nub.

i smiled when i read this
 

Azure J

Member
Yep, that's pretty much how I'd try to design a fighting game myself- why hasn't someone tried to do this yet?

I've always had pet designs that amounted to as much. I pretty much blame Vsav for being a big first stop in my head on how to do "long/over the top combos" that weren't all encompassing parts of the game itself. Too bad I have neither funding, visibility nor any decent level of programming or art skills at current.
 

Lost Fragment

Obsessed with 4chan
Do we have some change log precisions on this?
I stopped counting the number of times I had cr.mp xx fukiage coming out instead of hayate...
I'm not sure if it's just for Ryu or if it's a system wide thing, but pretty sure I heard Valle or someone mention it.

Anyway, I never get ex fukiage instead of ex hayate after cr.mp. Step ur shit up nub.
 

Shito

Member
Anyway, I never get ex fukiage instead of ex hayate after cr.mp. Step ur shit up nub.
Oh yeah, I've said time and time again that my execution is terrible.
Still, this is not a problem I encounter in other games like KOF or ASW games.
And it's totally right that this is something you can practice; doesn't make it less of a bore / needless hurdle, though. I'd rather spend some time practicing actual combos or mix-ups...

Not much this week, unless you're looking for some more Persona 4 Arena 2 footage
I am!
Thanks! :)
 

casperOne

Member
I got an announcement coming tonight!

Announcement of an announcement!

Edit: Here it be - https://twitter.com/TheKeits/status/420062900703621121

Nice lineup of games. I enjoyed the UMvC3 character auction tournament tremendously last year, nice to see there's going to be a UMvC3 alternate tournament (for lack of a better word).

To what extent do you guys think execution should matter in a fighting game? I prefer strategy over masturbatory combos myself, but I still think execution is important. What's the right level of execution requirements in a fighter? Very broad question, I know.

One thing I like about at least a moderate execution barrier is that it really plays into clutch, tense moments--when the adrenaline is flowing and everything is on the line, who can keep his or her head cool, stay in full control, and react fast to execute something tight? That's a big deal to me, and as much I value strategy and non-execution stuff in fighters, it's not complete without elements like the discipline, presence of mind, and risk/reward that are inherent in difficult combos/actions.

I guess SF4 feels alright in terms of execution requirements--there's advanced, precise stuff, but it isn't over the top and a little bit goes a long way.

I have mixed feelings on this. On the one hand, I play ST, which is a HIGH damage game. A single touch by someone usually leads to HUGE damage. However, it's not difficult to get touches and follow up or come back in that game.

In SF4, I get frustrated when I get touched (say, by Sakura) and then it's one frame link
(ironic, I know)
city.

That's the odd part, in SF4, I'm not in a bad situation when I get touched like that, really. Yeah, there's a part of the game where it's a one player game, but damage scaling and ultra meter are built, giving me a better shot to come back then when I play ST, and yet, I feel like I'm playing the game the wrong way because I'm not hitting the execution barrier that is the norm.

This doesn't mean that I think the execution barrier is too high, it's just the way that optimization has progressed given the constraints of the engine.

Compare this to ST, where the constraints of the engine (namely, lack of an extensive juggle system and ubiquitous one frame links) have determined that optimization occurs in a very different way.

I agree completely with Sirlin's analysis of SF4 in that those who master links will be kings of the game, but I don't agree that the execution barrier should be removed entirely. It's a delicate thing to balance; if someone is that adept at executing, then there's no reason that they shouldn't be rewarded adequately.

However, it's the "adequately" part that's the problem; that's an extremely subjective thing and tuning it for a wide audience (or even the narrow audience of the FGC) is extremely difficult.

Man, I don't know how you guys can claim that nothing happened.
Floe is the freaking Boshy.

This, and I was thinking also (it's a little too late):

FGW | US Arcades, not so super.

I'm not sure if it's just for Ryu or if it's a system wide thing, but pretty sure I heard Valle or someone mention it.

That particular fix is Ryu-specific.
 

Keits

Developer
Nice lineup of games. I enjoyed the UMvC3 character auction tournament tremendously last year, nice to see there's going to be a UMvC3 alternate tournament (for lack of a better word).

That was our game list announcement. The auctions are considered special events (not full open double elim tournaments) and will be announced separately.
 

RecklessWolf

Neo Member
Personally I love a game the requires some execution. It gives you that "fuck yeah" feeling when you finally land it in a match after practicing it for hours. When I landed my first FFF combo into ultra with Viper I was so hype and everyone in the room lost their mind.
 
Personally I love a game the requires some execution. It gives you that "fuck yeah" feeling when you finally land it in a match after practicing it for hours. When I landed my first FFF combo into ultra with Viper I was so hype and everyone in the room lost their mind.

learning FFF was not fun for me. Never again
 

Keits

Developer
One of the problems with heavy execution is that it artificially rewards those us with 15+ years of experience. I learned Fuerte Run Stop Fierce in less than an hour (and I was not nearly as good with execution 4 years ago). I got rocket's boulder loops down in UMvC3 last year in about 20 minutes. I can do every 1 frame link in SF4 in match without practicing because, quite frankly, its just easy for my hands.

These barriers are insanely hard to bust through for players without that experience edge, and not being able to execute can prevent you from playing the "real" game (the actual hard part) for a very long time.

Divekick is one extreme, where you can get straight to the "real" game part in minutes and completely ignore execution. Most fighting games, even Smash games, are very complicated to even play correctly and it really does put off a huge portion of the potential competitive player base.

Having more games that break that barrier down a little bit (not to the extreme of DK) would be a good thing. Killer Instinct does a decent job of letting you combo so so easily that you can actually play the real game in shorter order. Not every game should swing this way, but some definitely should.
 
I didn't realize DtN was this weekend. Tough decisions between that and playoff football. Is there a list of confirmed players online?
 
I didn't realize DtN was this weekend. Tough decisions between that and playoff football. Is there a list of confirmed players online?

It's this weekend?

God damnit I always end up working the whole weekend when there's a tournament. Never fails :(

On the plus side, I should at least be able to see if my school schedule would allow me to make it out to SCR when I end up finishing my last class today.
 
I hope my mates Willo and Pro Fluke enjoy Defend The North this weekend. Fluke is a stupid good Fuerte so I hope he does well.
 

Kimosabae

Banned
One of the problems with heavy execution is that it artificially rewards those us with 15+ years of experience. I learned Fuerte Run Stop Fierce in less than an hour (and I was not nearly as good with execution 4 years ago). I got rocket's boulder loops down in UMvC3 last year in about 20 minutes. I can do every 1 frame link in SF4 in match without practicing because, quite frankly, its just easy for my hands.

These barriers are insanely hard to bust through for players without that experience edge, and not being able to execute can prevent you from playing the "real" game (the actual hard part) for a very long time.

Divekick is one extreme, where you can get straight to the "real" game part in minutes and completely ignore execution. Most fighting games, even Smash games, are very complicated to even play correctly and it really does put off a huge portion of the potential competitive player base.

Having more games that break that barrier down a little bit (not to the extreme of DK) would be a good thing. Killer Instinct does a decent job of letting you combo so so easily that you can actually play the real game in shorter order. Not every game should swing this way, but some definitely should.

There's definitely a double consciousness strain running throughout the competitive FGC. It desires its games to be accepted by some LCD despite the very act of playing a game competitively raising its execution barrier (and the barrier to the competitive niche itself) exponentially. Execution barriers also raise the game's competitive worth in the niche since it tends to be a lazily measured, prima facie, barometer for a player's level of dedication to the game (and community). I also don't think people recognize how artificial and socially constructed execution "barriers" really are. The competitive barrier for entry into the NFL and NBA, for example, have been raised dramatically over the years due to advances in strategies, player physicality, medicines & therapy, league expansion, and much more.

I think the ideal is to compete in a game that has a high execution ceiling without a high execution barrier. Melee is a great example of this (it's my personal paragon). As you said: DK is an extreme. Problem is that the main FGs these days are still based off archaic design and mechanics premises. The deviations from SF2 template have been contextually negligible.

Also, Intellect isn't the only thing worth rewarding in a FG. All the principles and merits that foster execution's benefits deserve to be represented in a competitive community, too.
 

Beckx

Member
Happy new year, FGC-GAF. Hope everyone had a great one.

Apologies to a few on here for suggesting I'd be around to play SF over the break & adding PSNs, etc. This break I accepted that my days of even remotely organized online play are over, but oddly I don't mind. I ended up playing a ton of local multiplayer with my kids, including a marathon of Melee. It's a trade off but not a bad one, all things considered. Still, I feel guilty for flaking out on a few of you.

Getting hyped for the 2014 tournament season. Keits/CurlyW - can't wait to see what you guys have planned this year. Last year's mystery tournament was fantastic and the Lethal League final is one of my top five favorite moments from FGC 2013.

One week to Nidhogg! Three & a half to Full Boost!
 
The fighting game collector in me wants to get this but I have a good feeling it's going to drop lower than that.
$15 is where it goes into impulse buy territory for me, not to mention it helps pad the road to free shipping lol

5 weeks till Puyo Puyo Tetris, which unfortunately takes precedence over Full Boost for my requisite import purchase of the moment.
 

JDdelphin

Member
Game would not be tourney viable due to the fact that you can move the analog to kick out of anything.

You could also hold he stick in any direction to stay down/lose to anything. COLLUSION CONTROLS

Thus making it possibly the greateat pro wrestling game of all time.
 
There's definitely a double consciousness strain running throughout the competitive FGC. It desires its games to be accepted by some LCD despite the very act of playing a game competitively raising its execution barrier (and the barrier to the competitive niche itself) exponentially. Execution barriers also raise the game's competitive worth in the niche since it tends to be a lazily measured, prima facie, barometer for a player's level of dedication to the game (and community). I also don't think people recognize how artificial and socially constructed execution "barriers" really are. The competitive barrier for entry into the NFL and NBA, for example, have been raised dramatically over the years due to advances in strategies, player physicality, medicines & therapy, league expansion, and much more.

I think the ideal is to compete in a game that has a high execution ceiling without a high execution barrier. Melee is a great example of this (it's my personal paragon). As you said: DK is an extreme. Problem is that the main FGs these days are still based off archaic design and mechanics premises. The deviations from SF2 template have been contextually negligible.

Also, Intellect isn't the only thing worth rewarding in a FG. All the principles and merits that foster execution's benefits deserve to be represented in a competitive community, too.

I honestly just think that people have preferences and want those preferences catered too. Some people mainly enjoy the strategic parts of FGs others enjoy the dexterity and feel when landing hard combos/moves. I don't think there is an ideal, just what people prefer. And that's what we have in fighting games today. A variety.
 

Kimosabae

Banned
I honestly just think that people have preferences and want those preferences catered too. Some people mainly enjoy the strategic parts of FGs others enjoy the dexterity and feel when landing hard combos/moves. I don't think there is an ideal, just what people prefer. And that's what we have in fighting games today. A variety.


That doesn't address my premise: that the FGC expresses wants that their games cater to some LCD to foster adoption of the games they play. There's a reason why this discussion about execution barriers in fighting games comes up all the time in discussions regarding growth and acceptance.
 

Hitokage

Setec Astronomer
Hmm.
This game has assists. :)
Are the combos more link based or chain based?
Generally speaking: If I like Marvel, would I like this?
I guess saying it's like Marvel 3 if it were made to be like SF2 wouldn't be entirely off, but it's a pretty different game from Marvel no matter how you look at it.
 

Rhapsody

Banned
Hmm.
This game has assists. :)
Are the combos more link based or chain based?
Generally speaking: If I like Marvel, would I like this?

It's more like Street Fighter rather than Marvel. Combos are pretty short in this game. You have ABC chains, but your A and B moves are your special cancelable normals. You'll be doing usually small and quick hit confirms.

To answer your question though, probably not.
 
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