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[Hitokage]

They really didn't change Rose much going into Ultra, beyond making U1 usable again and making ex spiral go through stuff more at the expense of being throwable.

 

[delightfulspekkio]

You can say that about Fei Long too but that's not going to stop people from hating on Fei either.

I don't get the fei hate either, though, but you're right

 

[Sixfortyfive]

As much as people are complaining about Rose (lol), as Art just said on stream, she's playing street fighter and winning with fundamentals and not divekicking her way to victory.

Eh. I don't want to come across as a hater or anything, but between the complete shutdown of the fireball game and the meter differential, it still looked quite a bit like Ultra Match-Up Fighter IV to my casually-informed eyes.

But you gotta hold that sometimes if you insist on being a character loyalist, so I'm not gonna take away anything from the winner for it.

 

[Karsticles]

Did you guys see the Miiverse Smash pic of the day?

https://miiverse.nintendo.net/posts/AYMHAAACAADMUKl3TMQjFQ

Pure insanity.

They really didn't change Rose much going into Ultra, beyond making U1 usable again and making ex spiral go through stuff more at the expense of being throwable.

That EX Spiral pisses me off so much. Actually, Spiral in general does.

 

[Busaiku]

Sonic Fox is 16 years old and won a main game(Injustice), two side games(MK9 & DOA5) and placed 4th in another(Skullgirls). This was his first EVO. He wasn't the rising star?

Does he play a Capcom game.

 

[ThatCrazyGuy]

Fei and rose are fine.

Dive kick characters can die in a propane fire.

 

[Hitokage]

Bonchan started to mix up his fireballs after a while and fared better than he did at first, which isn't hard since he got absolutely reamed in the first couple matches.

I don't like Fei because he's random hit confirm to free corner carry the character.

 

[CountBlack]

They really didn't change Rose much going into Ultra, beyond making U1 usable again and making ex spiral go through stuff more at the expense of being throwable.

More damage was also really nice.

People gotta check out:

Luffy vs Justin Wong Grand Finals @ Stunfest
Luffy vs Daigo ft. 5 Money Match
Luffy vs Daigo @ DreamHack

 

[Infinite]

Did you guys see the Miiverse Smash pic of the day?

https://miiverse.nintendo.net/posts/AYMHAAACAADMUKl3TMQjFQ

Pure insanity.

I was talking to my friend the other day and I said the only third party character that outside of solid snake is rayman because he as much as a gaming icon as sonic Pacman or snake.

 

[Omega]

wasn't deckard the one that flaked on a bet with ultradavid way back?

 

[Osu 16 Bit]

Your game & KI don't deserve to be on finals day. Easily the two worst finals of the weekend.

Did anyone take your side bet that I wouldn't place top 8?

 

[Bobby Roberts]

I was talking to my friend the other day and I said the only third party character that outside of solid snake is rayman because he as much as a gaming icon as sonic Pacman or snake.

Simon Belmont probably has more of a claim to being in Smash Bros than Rayman does.

 

[Karsticles]

I was talking to my friend the other day and I said the only third party character that outside of solid snake is rayman because he as much as a gaming icon as sonic Pacman or snake.

I don't even remember Rayman until the PS1 days...I think. He always looked like a generic junk character. Sonic games have always been awful, but he was still iconic for rivaling Mario. Never played a MGS game.

Simon Belmont probably has more of a claim to being in Smash Bros than Rayman does.

There are a few I would list before Rayman...then again, ditto for Snake.

 

[delightfulspekkio]

They made her forward dash one frame faster too and Luffy was able to close the gap all top 8 with forward dashes into grab or close stand mk. Shows you how little a single frame of change can be useful to a character I guess.

 

[DryEyeRelief]

When I saw the rose changes for Ultra I immediately made the joke that Luffy was going to win Evo 2014.

And then it actually happened.

 

[SloaneRisette]

Let's talk about how smedwicks was at evo and was still able to make 143 posts.

What the hell man you were there

My APM is off the chart

Get on my level

 

[kirblar]

You can say that about Fei Long too but that's not going to stop people from hating on Fei either.

This version of Fei is fine. Without the braindead rekka pressure he's annoying but not in the stupid way he was previously.

 

[Dahbomb]

They really didn't change Rose much going into Ultra, beyond making U1 usable again and making ex spiral go through stuff more at the expense of being throwable.

I felt like the invincible EX Spiral and higher damage made a big impact in the matches and in many cases were the deciding factor. Luffy had many close games but those two things allowed him to clutch out those close games along with his own plays. Also while not prominent in the top 8, delay wake up helps her out a lot (it probably did help him out more in his previous matches like against Eita an Akuma player).

 

[Infinite]

Simon Belmont probably has more of a claim to being in Smash Bros than Rayman does.

Wouldn't argue against that.

I don't even remember Rayman until the PS1 days...I think. He always looked like a generic junk character. Sonic games have always been awful, but he was still iconic for rivaling Mario. Never played a MGS game.


There are a few I would list before Rayman...then again, ditto for Snake.

Yeah rayman wasn't a thing until the ps1. What characters would you put over rayman and snake? And I'm talking about gaming icons.

 

[The Mango Sentinel]

I don't even remember Rayman until the PS1 days...I think. He always looked like a generic junk character. Sonic games have always been awful, but he was still iconic for rivaling Mario. Never played a MGS game.

Sonic 2 & 3 are the gods. Sonic CD can go fuck off.

 

[DryEyeRelief]

koji kog thawk vs hungbee thawk
www.twitch.tv/nycfurby

 

[Dahbomb]

This version of Fei is fine. Without the braindead rekka pressure he's annoying but not in the stupid way he was previously.

Were you watching the same top 8 I was? Fei was still bullying people in the corner with rekkas. Gackt/Fuudo had Sagat in the corner for 50 plus seconds in a round and if it weren't for Bonchan being godlike those matches would've been a mauling.

 

[Hitokage]

I felt like the invincible EX Spiral and higher damage made a big impact in the matches and in many cases were the deciding factor. Luffy had many close games but those two things allowed him to clutch out those close games along with his own plays. Also while not prominent in the top 8, delay wake up helps her out a lot (it probably did help him out more in his previous matches like against Eita an Akuma player).

At the same time, it was only 10 damage to the moves that got buffed. We're not talking anything extreme here.

 

[kirblar]

Were you watching the same top 8 I was? Fei was still bullying people in the corner with rekkas. Gackt/Fuudo had Sagat in the corner for 50 plus seconds in a round and if it weren't for Bonchan being godlike those matches would've been a mauling.

They were bullying in the corner, yes, but they weren't able to just throw out random Rekkas to go on fishing expeditions. I actually enjoy watching the character now, when before it was just misery.

 

[The Mango Sentinel]

At the same time, it was only 10 damage to the moves that got buffed. We're not talking anything extreme here.

Yeah but you usually use all those moves in the combo. So that's like 30 damage....well probably 25 with scaling. And considering that it's the go to bnb for Rose, that shit adds up. It's a game of pixels. We've seen that all weekend....especially with all these timeouts.

 

[Hitokage]

Looking at the Wiki, Rose still has above average forward dash duration, but also above average distance. It's worth noting that one of the few characters who travels more than her is Makoto who also has a 16 frame dash.

 

[Dahbomb]

They were bullying in the corner, yes, but they weren't able to just throw out random Rekkas to go on fishing expeditions. I actually enjoy watching the character now, when before it was just misery.

That's exactly what he was doing in that top 8 though... fishing with Rekkas.

The main change on Fei has been that cr.LK change. He can't pressure with that anymore which nerfed his pressure game. The Rekkas are still insanely good. His pokes are still insanely good (cr.MP was buffed) and he got that crazy U1 buff which ups his damage off of random DP FADC chicken wing. It was really funny when Mago won like 3 rounds in one match with that new buff..

 

[Karsticles]

Wouldn't argue against that.


Yeah rayman wasn't a thing until the ps1. What characters would you put over rayman and snake? And I'm talking about gaming icons.

I suppose it depends on the criteria. If we're just talking about general gaming icons, a ton of characters beat out Rayman. Throw in any given Final Fantasy character and you've beaten Rayman.

Sonic 2 & 3 are the gods. Sonic CD can go fuck off.

Meh. Weak compared to Mario. The gameplay is always swapping between two stages:
1) GOTTA GO FAST - but you can't tell what the hell is going on, and the game kind of autopilots.

2) GOTTA PAY ATTENTION - can't go fast, no real terrain for it; crappy platforming.

As a kid, sure, 1) was pretty fantastic as a new experience. No more.

 

[Deckard Cain]

Did anyone take your side bet that I wouldn't place top 8?

No, cause no one cares about Injustice or you, well except YOU who can't seem to get enough of you.

 

[Sixfortyfive]

NES Mario > Genesis Sonic > SNES Mario

Come at me, bros.

 

[Hitokage]

Meh. Weak compared to Mario. The gameplay is always swapping between two stages:
1) GOTTA GO FAST - but you can't tell what the hell is going on, and the game kind of autopilots.

2) GOTTA PAY ATTENTION - can't go fast, no real terrain for it; crappy platforming.

As a kid, sure, 1) was pretty fantastic as a new experience. No more.

If you're not holding B the entire time while playing SMB1, you're not playing it right!

 

[Rice-Eater]

Bonchan started to mix up his fireballs after a while and fared better than he did at first, which isn't hard since he got absolutely reamed in the first couple matches.

I don't like Fei because he's random hit confirm to free corner carry the character.

It helped but Bonchan still had to deal with Super and up to 2 Ultras every round if he was actually doing well. Those two things were difference makers for Louffy. As for Rose, you don't have to have a dive kick to be a "dishonest". I think her meter gain from soul spark and soul reflect are ridiculous. And though U2 was toned down, it's still something she can activate at any time with enough distance and be used to kill momentum or start come backs. I don't think she's too good, she's just a pain in the ass for traditional fireball zoners to deal with.

BTW, only one Japanese beat Louffy this week. And it was Mizoteru with his Blanka. He actually won rather easily 3-1. But yeah, every other Japanese got bodied.

 

[Dark Ninja]

Arts stream getting hype vic the slick drunk and Akira Grill vs Cameraman on stream

 

[The Mango Sentinel]

That's exactly what he was doing in that top 8 though... fishing with Rekkas.

The main change on Fei has been that cr.LK change. He can't pressure with that anymore which nerfed his pressure game. The Rekkas are still insanely good. His pokes are still insanely good (cr.MP was buffed) and he got that crazy U1 buff which ups his damage off of random DP FADC chicken wing. It was really funny when Mago won like 3 rounds in one match with that new buff..

Bonchan didn't start uppercutting those damn rekkas until late. I was screaming cause I just wanted him to mash dp since you can do that now. Well I don't know if you can with Sagat since his is slower. But you sure as hell can with Ryu. It's probably something he tested and that's why he wasn't doing it. Either way, he beat Fuudo, so damn good job to him.

Meh. Weak compared to Mario. The gameplay is always swapping between two stages:
1) GOTTA GO FAST - but you can't tell what the hell is going on, and the game kind of autopilots.

2) GOTTA PAY ATTENTION - can't go fast, no real terrain for it; crappy platforming.

As a kid, sure, 1) was pretty fantastic as a new experience. No more.

Haha. True. Probably nostalgia. I can still enjoy them though. I only played Sonic CD for the first time about 2 years ago, and that's likely why I don't enjoy it.

 

[Karsticles]

It's amazing how much of SFIV revolves around anti-fireball techniques.

If you're not holding B the entire time while playing SMB1, you're not playing it right!

My thumb never leaves that button!

 

[Dahbomb]

Combofiend did say they were looking at characters like Yun/Dee Jay/Seth.

My guess is that a balance patch is planned but they need more data so they will sit on it for now.

The data from this EVO was really inconclusive IMO. The only thing you can say for sure is that Rose is a "good/competitive" character and Fei Long is still really good.

 

[SloaneRisette]

God damn it's hot out here

Fuck Vegas

 

[Karsticles]

Combofiend did say they were looking at characters like Yun/Dee Jay/Seth.

My guess is that a balance patch is planned but they need more data so they will sit on it for now.

The data from this EVO was really inconclusive IMO. The only thing you can say for sure is that Rose is a "good/competitive" character and Fei Long is still really good.

Yeah, these results are within the perspective of a pretty fresh game. How many people didn't know Rose's changes by heart to deal with her?, etc.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

NES Mario > Genesis Sonic > SNES Mario

Come at me, bros.

I wanted to fuck with this. But you're not wrong.

 

[The Mango Sentinel]

I'm not sure why people are making such a big deal out of Louffy winning with a pad.

Rose is one of the easiest characters to play on a pad. It's the main reason I use her as one of my alts (since I unfortunately became a pad player over the last year). I don't think there's any advantage to playing her on stick. She ain't Ibuki/Viper.

 

[enzo_gt]

I noticed this, too. How is that possibly the case? I thought that a game's GAF popularity would at least be roughly proportional to its general popularity within the context of mainstream games.

I think there are a few factors for why FGC-GAF relatively blew up:

- We've had important, loved and respected FGC members as actual members and not drive-by posters here for a while. Most notably, haunts, Art and MarkMan. MarkMan does all the pick up threads still to this very day and many years running. We get frequent promo.

- People started becoming pretty unsatisfied with existing online fighting game communities (early Eventhubs, SRK forum exodus, certain people from GameFAQs/IGN).

- Its on a forum that's not exclusive to fighting games. I can go converse with Stabby in a Kanye thread, argue with Bobby about everything in comic movie threads and the discuss why Jay Electronica is a jackass with sf2fanatic and Count Blackule in GAF-Hop. I think if you've been on GAF for a while you really do realize it is a community with intertwined subcommunitites and it's a beautiful thing. Perhaps the exclusive and heavily moderated part was also attractive to some.

- FGC-GAF got better. Sort of coincides with the decline of other communities thing, except SRK is getting better again (come back to us, ian! ). USD got people together to watch streams of competitive play, not just discuss the games. Was this a thing before on SRK or IRC? I don't think so, so that might be novel, or at least GAF was there when FGC streams really started popping off leading into SFIV and beyond. #gafranbats helped bring the community together some more. Kadey is big (step) sis (that everyone is tryna get Christmas greetings from). And not to toot my own horn, but I do believe reorganizing and constantly looking at how we can make these threads or the community better helped it be a bit more attractive when people visit for the first time to see what the hell Art is giggling about on Guard Crush/Big Two, and they see that it isn't just some dinky chatroom.

I don't think FGC-GAF is that big in the grand scheme of things, but people know this is a thing. Would be cool if one day this was like the premiere place for fighting game discussion though, wouldn't it? We still have a long ways to go. Still way too much shitting on other games (although less than maybe 2 years ago) and most of all I don't want this community to feel insular or unwelcoming either. I hate that shit about community threads, and when I get around to it I plan to add more [relevant] resources for newcomers into the OP.

 

[Dahbomb]

It's amazing how much of SFIV revolves around anti-fireball techniques.!

Having an anti fireball technique is a basic character tool every one should have in some capacity. Just look at the design of Ryu... he has a Fireball, an invincible reversal and an anti fireball special (Tatsu kicks). This is an AVERAGE character in the game as far as tools go so some characters will have better anti fireball tools instead of having a fireball themselves (like Yun for example). And then you have a character like Guile who has a great fireball game but no real anti fireball techniques.


Otherwise you end with dumb match ups like Haggar vs any high mobile projectile character.

 

[Infinite]

That's exactly what he was doing in that top 8 though... fishing with Rekkas.

The main change on Fei has been that cr.LK change. He can't pressure with that anymore which nerfed his pressure game. The Rekkas are still insanely good. His pokes are still insanely good (cr.MP was buffed) and he got that crazy U1 buff which ups his damage off of random DP FADC chicken wing. It was really funny when Mago won like 3 rounds in one match with that new buff..

Umm the recovery for rekkas on block was nerfed. If you noticed fuudo wasn't really trying to make anyone block them and when he did he sometimes got punish and I think he fadc a blocked rekka once or twice. Fei long game is still bullying you with his normals and rekkas but now there's a higher risk for him when someone blocks a rekka.

 

[kirblar]

Umm the recovery for rekkas on block was nerfed. If you noticed fuudo wasn't really trying to make anyone block them and when he did he sometimes got punish and I think he fadc a blocked rekka once or twice. Fei long game is still bullying you with his normals and rekkas but now there's a higher risk for him when someone blocks a rekka.

It also introduced the fun frame trap game where because they're unsafe, people will try to punish, but you can beat it by just going to the next one.

You can fish safely still, but you have to spend meter.

 

[MagnetoWned]

Who is this on mic? lmfao

 

[Rice-Eater]

Who is this on mic? lmfao

Vic the Slick, and I don't think it's crazy to assume that he's had a drink or two.

 

[Tekniqs]

It helped but Bonchan still had to deal with Super and up to 2 Ultras every round if he was actually doing well. Those two things were difference makers for Louffy. As for Rose, you don't have to have a dive kick to be a "dishonest". I think her meter gain from soul spark and soul reflect are ridiculous. And though U2 was toned down, it's still something she can activate at any time without enough distance and be used to kill momentum or start come backs. I don't think she's too good, she's just a pain in the ass for traditional fireball zoners to deal with.

BTW, only one Japanese beat Louffy this week. And it was Mizoteru with his Blanka. He actually won rather easily 3-1. But yeah, every other Japanese got bodied.

she's always been a shoto killer in my book. builds meter faster, and wins the fireball war for free

 

[Dark Ninja]

Yo Aqua vs Gamerbee on Arts stream. The commentary is fantastic

Edit: They changed the match up

 

[Dahbomb]

If anything Rose is a Guile killer...

/ Guile player

 

[Karsticles]

I think there are a few factors for why FGC-GAF relatively blew up:

- We've had important, loved and respected FGC members as actual members and not drive-by posters here for a while. Most notably, haunts, Art and MarkMan. MarkMan does all the pick up threads still to this very day and many years running. We get frequent promo.

- People started becoming pretty unsatisfied with existing online fighting game communities (early Eventhubs, SRK forum exodus, certain people from GameFAQs/IGN).

- Its on a forum that's not exclusive to fighting games. I can go converse with Stabby in a Kanye thread, argue with Bobby about everything in comic movie threads and the discuss why Jay Electronica is a jackass with sf2fanatic and Count Blackule in GAF-Hop. I think if you've been on GAF for a while you really do realize it is a community with intertwined subcommunitites and it's a beautiful thing. Perhaps the exclusive and heavily moderated part was also attractive to some.

- FGC-GAF got better. Sort of coincides with the decline of other communities thing, except SRK is getting better again (come back to us, ian! ). USD got people together to watch streams of competitive play, not just discuss the games. Was this a thing before on SRK or IRC? I don't think so, so that might be novel, or at least GAF was there when FGC streams really started popping off leading into SFIV and beyond. #gafranbats helped bring the community together some more. Kadey is big (step) sis (that everyone is tryna get Christmas greetings from). And not to toot my own horn, but I do believe reorganizing and constantly looking at how we can make these threads or the community better helped it be a bit more attractive when people visit for the first time to see what the hell Art is giggling about on Guard Crush/Big Two, and they see that it isn't just some dinky chatroom.

I don't think FGC-GAF is that big in the grand scheme of things, but people know this is a thing. Would be cool if one day this was like the premiere place for fighting game discussion though, wouldn't it? We still have a long ways to go. Still way too much shitting on other games (although less than maybe 2 years ago) and most of all I don't want this community to feel insular or unwelcoming either. I hate that shit about community threads, and when I get around to it I plan to add more [relevant] resources for newcomers into the OP.

Makes sense to me.

Having an anti fireball technique is a basic character tool every one should have in some capacity. Just look at the design of Ryu... he has a Fireball, an invincible reversal and an anti fireball special (Tatsu kicks). This is an AVERAGE character in the game as far as tools go so some characters will have better anti fireball tools instead of having a fireball themselves (like Yun for example). And then you have a character like Guile who has a great fireball game but no real anti fireball techniques.


Otherwise you end with dumb match ups like Haggar vs any high mobile projectile character.

Yeah, but what I mean is that there are so many anti-fireball tools that I don't feel like having a fireball is that big of a deal outside of the chip damage it offers through blockstrings. Everyone has an EX Something that blows past it and knocks you on your ass.

To put it differently:
Most fighting games have fireballs. However, most games balance fireballs by giving various characters different interesting abilities. In BlazBlue, Jin might have a projectile he can throw at you, but Arakune can make appendages pop out of the ground to hit you instead, Nu can summon swords out of nowhere, and Rachel can set traps throughout the screen. In Street Fighter, there are characters with fireballs, and then everyone has an anti-projectile move.

During gameplay, BlazBlue looks like this:
Interesting Tool vs. Interesting Tool

Street Fighter looks like this:
Fireball vs. Anti-Fireball

The only exception to this rule seems to be C. Viper.