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enzo_gt said:
In GTA it's an option. In Duke Nukem, you have to. Though my memory of the clubs in GTA III is a little fuzzy, I don't think any shooting missions take place in the interiors of clubs, or interiors in general.
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yea this. duke nukem accepted it in the fact that it was part of the game. with gta you don't need to shoot up a strip club for any reason other than being I guess dumb
 
enzo_gt said:
In GTA it's an option. In Duke Nukem, you have to. Though my memory of the clubs in GTA III is a little fuzzy, I don't think any shooting missions take place in the interiors of clubs, or interiors in general.
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Wut, are you referring to the girls that are basically the equivalent to the having a chest burster in them?

Because you don't have to kill strippers in Duke Nukem the game actually punishes you for doing that. o.O I think your memory is a little off.

Edit: Killing the trapped girls also punishes you actually.
 
Dahbomb said:
This is a good answer and I agree with it. It boils down to child maturity really.

Also I feel like GTA is the exception rather than rule for M rated games. Most games are M rates due to violence. I would have no problem with my kid playing DMC or COD because they feature some standard violence (DMC in general is fairly tame with the exception of DmC) as long as I have ascertained that they don't act out what they see and can tell real life from fiction.
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I can't substantiate this claim in any way, but I think the game's genre also matters. I think that the kind of game impacts the child's neural development in different ways. A game like Call of Duty, which is entirely twitch shooting and instant gratification, is building a reward system in the child's mind for these kinds of activities. I honestly think that a game like Call of Duty impairs a child's mental development because it grounds them in base ventures. On the other hand, fighting games, strategy games, RPGs, etc. all reward tactical thought and patience. I think they offer a different kind of reward system, and thus they are much better for children to play.

As a kid, I played a lot of RPGs. Did they have violence? Absolutely. But I also had to figure out things like materia combinations, weigh Esper stat changes, and decide on what combo techs I wanted. Tactics games are even more intense in this area. Hell, I taught my little sister to read through RPGs. I learned a lot about critical thinking through these games, though. If chess is good for kids, then, aside from problems inherent to the media (TV viewing), I don't see why RPGs, fighting games, and strategy games would be bad. And I think chess is great for kids.

On the other hand, a game like Call of Duty is more like Hungry Hungry Hippos (thanks to my wife for that analogy). Would you want to raise your kids on Hungry Hungry Hippos?
 
QisTopTier said:
Wut, are you referring to the girls that are basically the equivalent to the having a chest burster in them?

Because you don't have to kill strippers in Duke Nukem the game actually punishes you for doing that. o.O I think your memory is a little off.
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Perhaps, but more importantly I'm giving an account of my impressions from these games as a kid, until now. I guess things are a bit more realistic now, but I have very vivid memories of the strip club levels in Duke Nukem which created a pretty different impression than what GTA offered me.

I've always though the link between being able to shoot cops in GTA and somehow coercing children into believing that was acceptable was super ignorant of the circumstances of the character you were embodying and those that were directly influencing him/her. Not once did my experiences in a violent video game outweigh what I was taught by my parents or society for what is acceptable and what isn't. Games, like any other media a kid experiences, are subject to the context of child rearing, and as long as that's the case, I think it's a bit ignorant to make generalizations without that context. And that context differs significantly from parent-to-parent.
 
Karsticles said:
I can't substantiate this claim in any way, but I think the game's genre also matters. I think that the kind of game impacts the child's neural development in different ways. A game like Call of Duty, which is entirely twitch shooting and instant gratification, is building a reward system in the child's mind for these kinds of activities. I honestly think that a game like Call of Duty impairs a child's mental development because it grounds them in base ventures. On the other hand, fighting games, strategy games, RPGs, etc. all reward tactical thought and patience. I think they offer a different kind of reward system, and thus they are much better for children to play.

As a kid, I played a lot of RPGs. Did they have violence? Absolutely. But I also had to figure out things like materia combinations, weigh Esper stat changes, and decide on what combo techs I wanted. Tactics games are even more intense in this area. Hell, I taught my little sister to read through RPGs. I learned a lot about critical thinking through these games, though. If chess is good for kids, then, aside from problems inherent to the media (TV viewing), I don't see why RPGs, fighting games, and strategy games would be bad. And I think chess is great for kids.

On the other hand, a game like Call of Duty is more like Hungry Hungry Hippos (thanks to my wife for that analogy). Would you want to raise your kids on Hungry Hungry Hippos?
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Mate, kids play games for fun and I don't expect my children to learn shit from playing them. There is a time and a place to educate them and that comes before and after game time.

If they can understand the difference between real and pretend and are having fun, then they should go for it.
 
toddhunter said:
Mate, kids play games for fun and I don't expect my children to learn shit from playing them. There is a time and a place to educate them and that comes after game time.

If they can understand the difference between real and pretend and are having fun, then they should go for it.
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Well, there's your mistake. Kids learn things from games. Some games teach them bad things, and some games teach them good things. Media forms a part of our reality.
 
Karsticles said:
I can't substantiate this claim in any way, but I think the game's genre also matters. I think that the kind of game impacts the child's neural development in different ways. A game like Call of Duty, which is entirely twitch shooting and instant gratification, is building a reward system in the child's mind for these kinds of activities. I honestly think that a game like Call of Duty impairs a child's mental development because it grounds them in base ventures. On the other hand, fighting games, strategy games, RPGs, etc. all reward tactical thought and patience. I think they offer a different kind of reward system, and thus they are much better for children to play.

As a kid, I played a lot of RPGs. Did they have violence? Absolutely. But I also had to figure out things like materia combinations, weigh Esper stat changes, and decide on what combo techs I wanted. Tactics games are even more intense in this area. Hell, I taught my little sister to read through RPGs. I learned a lot about critical thinking through these games, though. If chess is good for kids, then, aside from problems inherent to the media (TV viewing), I don't see why RPGs, fighting games, and strategy games would be bad. And I think chess is great for kids.

On the other hand, a game like Call of Duty is more like Hungry Hungry Hippos (thanks to my wife for that analogy). Would you want to raise your kids on Hungry Hungry Hippos?
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Why not learn strategy, timing, values of teamwork, space control, etc. from Call of Duty? Why is there no critical thinking or risk evaluation involved in any of those elements of Call of Duty or the potential for kids to learn from that? Call of Duty, or shooters in general, are not just instant gratification and rewards up the ass. You ought to watch some young kids play CoD and be astounded how they can assess threats and modify their decision making to suit what's going on at that time in a match.
 
toddhunter said:
Do you have kids?
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Not yet, but I am deeply excited about the prospect!

I don't see how that's relevant, though, unless you think that it's impossible to learn how media relationships effect children through a combination of my experiences with other children and my own experiences as a child.

enzo_gt said:
Why not learn strategy, timing, values of teamwork, space control, etc. from Call of Duty? Why is there no critical thinking or risk evaluation involved in any of those elements of Call of Duty or the potential for kids to learn from that? Call of Duty, or shooters in general, are not just instant gratification and rewards up the ass. You ought to watch some young kids play CoD and be astounded how they can assess threats and modify their decision making to suit what's going on at that time in a match.
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Call of Duty is primarily PUG play. The game, for the vast majority of its players, plays like a PUG game, which means those above points are moot. I'm not saying there's no thinking at all in Call of Duty, but rather that the PUG level thinking is more like Hungry Hungry Hippos: do I open the mouth now, or wait for the marble to come closer? Followed by a "yay" if the marble gets eaten, or frustration if not.

I'm not condemning shooters in general, but they are inclined to this kind of instant gratification. I've also played shooters as a kid (surprise?), so I don't think I need to watch kids play to know how it goes.
 
My friends beat the shit out of each other after the smash bros commercial came on tv. Every fight always required them to start side by side happy til one person starts the fight randomly.

My older brother and his friends fought on trampolines to simulate war of the monsters. and slamming and sending each other flying.

They also ran across pool covers to simulate "quick sand" levels.

One of my childhood friends did the same thing with them and I had to jump in the damn pool and save him because his ass was drowning.

I wasn't very physical for the most part so I didn't partake in too much stuff like this. I was my own form of fucked up as a kid as my parents knew I was overly curious about stuff so they let me be... curious as long as I wasn't killing anything or destroying property.
 
I'm going to make my kids play P4:A to tell them that I won't take them on vacation to Europe for a few years

Karsticles said:
Call of Duty is primarily PUG play. The game, for the vast majority of its players, plays like a PUG game, which means those above points are moot. I'm not saying there's no thinking at all in Call of Duty, but rather that the PUG level thinking is more like Hungry Hungry Hippos: do I open the mouth now, or wait for the marble to come closer? Followed by a "yay" if the marble gets eaten, or frustration if not.

I'm not condemning shooters in general, but they are inclined to this kind of instant gratification. I've also played shooters as a kid (surprise?), so I don't think I need to watch kids play to know how it goes.
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What is PUG?
 
QisTopTier said:
My friends beat the shit out of each other after the smash bros commercial came on tv. Every fight always required them to start side by side happy til one person starts the fight randomly.

My older brother and his friends fought on trampolines to simulate war of the monsters. and slamming and sending each other flying.

They also ran across pool covers to simulate "quick sand" levels.

One of my childhood friends did the same thing with them and I had to jump in the damn pool and save him because his ass was drowning
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I also did the trampoline thing as a kid. Trampoline Kombat was the best until someone got knocked off and started crying. Or that weird neighbor kid started pulling the other boys' pants down...he was messed up. And on that note, I hope no one thinks I am arguing that violence is bad for children, or something silly like that.

Smedwicks said:
Which FGC-GAF member will you name your child's middle name after?
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Why on earth would I do that? Hahaha. My wife and I already have the names planned. She rejected Thucydides. :( I got Cereza until she discovered the Spanish meaning, and then it made her uncomfortable.
 
Karsticles said:
I also did the trampoline thing as a kid. Trampoline Kombat was the best until someone got knocked off and started crying. Or that weird neighbor kid started pulling the other boys' pants down...he was messed up. And on that note, I hope no one thinks I am arguing that violence is bad for children, or something silly like that.
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Well the worst thing about the location of the trampoline was that it wasn't over grass and soft ground it was over fucking dry ass hard as a fucking rock dirt.

So when you got slammed off they got fucking owned.

Pretty sure one of them broke some ribs when they ate shit on the end of the trampoline one time. Actually 100% sure he did as he never came over anymore :P


Edit: I think one thing people need to realize is kids are going to do dumb ass shit all the time. It's up to their family and mentors to instill morals into them and stuff. I think parents need to monitor their kids online activity these days more and I think the next generation of kids or the one after will be a bit better about things in that sense as parents who grew up with technology will have been the ones to raise them.
 
There is nothing wrong with having a kid grow up on Hungry Hungry Hippos lol.

COD if played competitively and in a team based environment with a drive to get better requires skill, experience and tactical awareness. It's not the same as an RPG but it requires a different form of skillset. You still have to make educated guesses on what your opponent will do and where they will be. Many kids lack in these areas. I play with these kids sometimes... they have me beat in raw reactions and twitch based skill easily but they lack in patience and tactical sense. I can bait them into a bad situation with superior strategic play. This is something they have to learn over time as they get better and more experienced.

I have a cousin who plays FIFA, Pokemon, COD and Minecraft. I feel like he can play any type of game he wants... MOBAs and RPGs included. I was the same at his age (still am now) where I could play anything. People underestimate what kids are capable of. A kid who grew up with RPGs isn't inherently more intelligent that one who grow up with shooters.
 
JESUS FUCKING CHRIST, Markman, are you sure these Blazblue TEs were meant to be able to be opened by human hands? Because I'm pretty sure the only thing I've accomplished in 30+ minutes is just making my hands feel pain and not even have a single screw rotate even a little x___x

Karsticles said:
Why on earth would I do that? Hahaha. My wife and I already have the names planned. She rejected Thucydides. :( I got Cereza until she discovered the Spanish meaning, and then it made her uncomfortable.
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She's uncomfortable by fruits?
 
QisTopTier said:
Well the worst thing about the location of the trampoline was that it wasn't over grass and soft ground it was over fucking dry ass hard as a fucking rock dirt.

So when you got slammed off they got fucking owned.

Pretty sure one of them broke some ribs when they ate shit on the end of the trampoline one time. Actually 100% sure he did as he never came over anymore :P
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Ditto here. Grass is a mythological life form in Arizona.

I think the worst thing that ever happened was one of the neighbor kids (pants-puller kid) got a brick and hit another kid over the head with it, and he went unconscious. That or jumping off the roof into an empty metal pool on the ground. I wonder what ever happened to those crazy, crazy stupid kids...
 
Karsticles said:
Ditto here. Grass is a mythological life form in Arizona.

I think the worst thing that ever happened was one of the neighbor kids (pants-puller kid) got a brick and hit another kid over the head with it, and he went unconscious. That or jumping off the roof into an empty metal pool on the ground. I wonder what ever happened to those crazy, crazy stupid kids...
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One works at Nasa now and the other is working on cancer research.

This is highly unlikely
 
Smedwicks said:
Because I think Smedwicks would be an excellent middle name.
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She said: "Yeah, sure, have some internet weirdo think we're going to name our kid Smedwicks."

Mission Accomplished.

QisTopTier said:
One works at Nasa now and the other is working on cancer research.

This is highly unlikely
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The younger sister of the family did end up trying to reach out to me on Facebook, and she told me that pants-pulling kid got their sister pregnant and they are "together". So...yeah. Pretty much the results one would expect.
 
I was raised on Age of Empires more than anything else, which is 100% responsible for why I'm such a cheap ass today. Can't nobody fuck with my resource management.
 
As a kid I knew all the original Pokemon names ... even in the order of their # on a specific chart (1-151 I could tell you who was #73 on it).

Now I can't even remember half of them by name... I wonder what other weird shit I had memorized as a kid but forgot as I grew up.

Oh I also knew all the command list for all the UMK3 characters plus all their fatalities/babalities.
 
Karsticles said:
Not yet, but I am deeply excited about the prospect!

I don't see how that's relevant, though, unless you think that it's impossible to learn how media relationships effect children through a combination of my experiences with other children and my own experiences as a child.
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Basically I think you are theory fighting and over thinking it.

When I was a kid we ran around the bush pretending to shoot each other. Now kids do the same thing running around in a game.

It is just something to do. There are plenty of other hours in the week to worry about teaching them things. There is only so much they can learn and even less they will pay attention to.
 
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