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Final Fantasy VII defined RPG genre, says Molyneux

How many games ripoff the enclosed city -> sprawling world thing nowadays? I bet FFXIII does :D
 
Since the vast majority of console owners didn't give a shit about RPGs until then I think it's a very fair point. What FFVII added to a the genre is debatable, however it defined the genre for millions of people.
 
Y2Kev said:
morrowind is like three times as good
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That's true.

But FFIV is also better than FFVII. :P

Brain Training is the last game I can think of that's defined a genre. There are so many copycats now.
 
Second said:
Strange wording.

He doesn't believe it exist and yet he hasn't seen many. So he has seen a few?
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It's called softening your stated position to better clarify your views.
Y2Kev said:
morrowind is like three times as good
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Agreed. Note: I still found Oblivion very engrossing.
 
There's nothing really controversial with the statement at all. FFVII was actually a very traditional JRPG and it is very much a definition of what a JRPG was, so for folks who were only just getting into JRPGs around that time it is the perfect definition of a JPRG.

I can even understand it if he was using the term in the sense that it was doing something new, because it's heavy use of FMV cutscenes to tell the story, was a shocking new thing.
 
Segata Sanshiro said:
I think it suffers from a really unlikeable hero (even more unlikeable now that Zack showed everyone how it's done) and as per usual for a Final Fantasy, the story completely collapses towards the end. I still think it's in the upper half of the FF series, but I can certainly understand people disliking it, for a variety of reasons.

And yeah, I think as you mentioned the fanbase is *one* of those reasons.
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bububut KURAUDO! KURASU FAASUTO!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMR1azL2wHU

count me as one of the kids who creams over cloud and seph
 
How's Cloud unlikable? He's definitely cagey and standoffish at first (for the first disk or so). But I definitely think he is sort of a different character after the Mideel stuff.
 
Y2Kev said:
How's Cloud unlikable? He's definitely cagey and standoffish at first (for the first disk or so). But I definitely think he is sort of a different character after the Mideel stuff.
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Ask me on IRC sometime. I don't mind discussing it, but I don't want to get jumped by... them.
 
Segata Sanshiro said:
Ask me on IRC sometime. I don't mind discussing it, but I don't want to get jumped by... them.
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ninja.jpg
 
I love FFVII as much as the next guy, but I would not go as far as saying it "defined" the genre. It may have expanded the audience and gave us all a glimpse of how cinematic the story-telling in an RPG can be, but that's pretty much it.
 
Segata Sanshiro said:
I don't want to get jumped by... them.
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it's too late, they've heard you.

I know, it's tough to have a discussion about the game anymore. I really liked when we played through it over christmas break because we had some really good discussions and I noticed things I never even saw before-- like the turks smoking pot in Junon :lol
 
Y2Kev said:
it's too late, they've heard you.

I know, it's tough to have a discussion about the game anymore. I really liked when we played through it over christmas break because we had some really good discussions and I noticed things I never even saw before-- like the turks smoking pot in Junon :lol
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I'm ramping up for another playthrough sooner or later here. Going through the series again between other games. Finished 1 and 2 over the last couple weeks, heading into 3 now. If you want to join, I'll let you know when I hit a certain number.
 
Segata Sanshiro said:
I'm ramping up for another playthrough sooner or later here. Going through the series again between other games. Finished 1 and 2 over the last couple weeks, heading into 3 now. If you want to join, I'll let you know when I hit a certain number.
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I'm hankering for another go at 8, actually. I can only play them so frequently, but it's been a good five years I think since I've played FF8 completely.

I'm completely burned out on 4. Like, done with 4 until I'm 30. I really want 5 on DS though.

here we go :lol
weedparty.jpg
 
kevm3 said:
Why don't you name these genre definers instead of telling me to use common sense.
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DEAD-FUCKING-RISING

If you don't agree with me you are wrong. fact.

And a big lol to the ff7 lovers that aren't reading and just spill shit on him. If you like ff7 so much why don't you just marry it?
 
kevm3 said:
What exactly is a genre-defining ggame? When I think of genre-definer, I think of a game that takes the elements of that specific genre and does it so well, that it outclasses other games.

In that regards, I would say Peter Molyneux is wrong in calling FF7 genre defining. Let's make no mistake. It was one of the best games I've played and it was an awesome EXPERIENCE, but it did little to 'define' or push forward anything in the RPG genre. I will say that it really pushed the RPG category in terms of popularity. However, anyone that has been playing RPGs for a while prior to FF7 won't really find anything that it did specific to the RPG genre that really stood out above other games.

I don't sit back and think, "that gameplay system in FF7 really needs to be in future rpgs!" I sit back and think, wow, FF7 had awesome graphics, sound, and characters. None of that goes towards defining what an rpg should be. A game like Baldur-s Gate 2 or Planescape Torment actually go much further in defining what an RPG should be, with Planescape's intricate story or Baldur's Gate 2's battle system, characters, etc., After playing those two games, it almost made going back to the traditional JRPG impossible for me... But somehow I managed lol.
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Wait so story and gameplay define RPGs yet sound, graphics and characters dont. Wuuuut?

It certainly defined that genre as far as Japanese is concerned and it since the JRPGs and FF are what most people associate with RPGs first off, it probably stands out more than anything other than the old school originals. Certainly its emphasis on elaborate cutscenes and cinematic style have influence nearly all JRPGs at the very least.
 
FF7 was awesome for its time, and is still great.

As for the PS3, how's that not true? I don't even think the 360 has any of those, nor the Wii
 
The one thing I remember being totally in awe of the first time I played FFVII was the opening sequence. I'd never seen anything like that before, the music was fantastic, and the scale of the game felt enormous.
 
Forkball said:
Final Fantasy VII > Black and White

Your move, internet.
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the way of the past set in awesome stone, but the road is downhill from here on < the way of the future set in buggy-as-hell mud, but at least the road is going uphill from here.

Bite! Pull!

I have to say though, that people who are thinking that Molyneux is refering to a technical definition in this quote are completely bonkers.
 
I sort of agree, but I do not think it is a great game in any shape or form. I honestly would have preferred FFVII more if it stayed in Midgar. And never left.
 
Jive Turkey said:
Present!

Sadly I agree with Molyneux.
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This is my feeling.

Up until the PS1 era, my friends and I had very similar gaming tastes. Then, FF VII and Goldeneye were defining moments for my group. Several of my friends absolutely loved Final Fantasy VII and didn't really want to play Goldeneye with me; I thought FF VII was insipid and played Goldeneye constantly.

Now, I play virtually no single player games. I play a ton of RTS (Starcraft, Homeworld) Strategy (Chess, Go) and FPS (Natural Selection, TF2), while many of my friends prefer "immersive" single player games. I've tried to dabble with RPGs to reconnect with my friend's tastes, but I simply can't enjoy them.

In other words, FF VII was the moment I began to diverge from the tastes of many of my fellow gamers -- including many on this site. I was a dedicated console player, but since the release of FF VII, I have gradually migrated away from consoles and the types of games they tend to offer.
 
If he is talking about RPGs as a whole, then he is wrong. Very wrong. If he is talking about JRPGS, well, it's pretty indisputable. FF7 has had enormous impact and influence.
 
I absolutely love how the main criteria for judging a gameÂ’s influence is how much you liked/disliked said game.
 
JavaMava said:
I don't see how any one could possibly be upset at that quote, regardless if you feel the same about FF7 as he does.

It'd be like being pissed that Cliffy B really loved Goldeneye.
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He did?? WTF?? That poser.

larvi said:
I guess FFVII did help define the genre for trapezoid box packaging for PC games :lol

DSCN7868e.JPG
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I remember that box :lol

Like it or lump it, FF7 defined what an RPG is to a LOT of people.
It simultaneously brought the RPG into mainstream gaming, and proved the validity of a story based game with copious amounts of CG. It also had amazing cinematography for its time. Some of the pre-rendered backgrounds were drawn at really awesome angles, and the battle cutscenes were quite epic (KOTR anyone?), which made the game feel that much more cinematic.

I have great memories of FF7 (and I played FF4 and FF6, haters!).
 
Himuro said:
It did define the genre, especially in the west. Japanese rpgs that is.

Final Fantasy VII has so much imagination and creativity going for it. No, it's not the best jrpg or anything. But it does a lot of things right and has the right amount of heart put into it.

Leaving Midgar for the first time was amazing. I thought the entire game was in Midgar. No other game scene surprised with awe or wonder, as leaving Midgar for the first time.

The camera angles for the environements are almost always artistic, and leave a lot to the imagination yet still allow you to wonder freely. The game also has some of the best atmosphere in a game ever in the Midgar chapter of the game. The attack on Junon on disc 2 is another example.

The story may not be up to snuff, but the pacing is nothing short of brilliant. You're never at a location for too long, or too short.

There's tons of side content, that makes most modern rpgs squirm.

The game is FULL of memorable moments. The entirety of the Midgar section of the game, the flashback in Kalm, invading Junon and joining in the march, Barret in a sailor suit, Cosmo Canyon and Red XIII's story, the desert prison, the wall market, the destruction of Sector 7, the opening act...which still stands as the BEST opening act in an rpg - a bombing mission as a gang of terrorists, "don't step on the flowers", the date at the Gold Saucer where they play Interrupted By Fireworks, the death of Aerith and more.

Most rpgs , or games period, do not have as many memorable moments as Final Fantasy VII, and that's just the first disc.

The game does a hell of a lot right, and there couldn't be a more defining game of the genre for me, personally, and I'm proud it was my first rpg.
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Agreed. Thanks for saving me the trouble. <3

And can we just talk about the music? Probably the best synergy between game / story and music that I've seen in a game thus far. EVERY piece fits like a glove, and each is composed to perfection. Uematsu-san is love.
 
Mash said:
I think he just means it set a new standard, stop obsessing over semantics.
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This is GAF. Every single thing Molyneaux just stated is going to be chopped up, over-analyzed, taken out of context, and saved for future forum debates.
 
I can think of better musical compositions -- especially that of Suikoden which came out a year before FFVII. THAT had one beautiful soundtrack that truly made every scene amazing. Epic war music that can softly dive into whistling flutes for forests and dark symphonies for the various dungeons you explore. Absolutely love. Hagashino-san is much better.
 
God, I get so tired of people hanging off the nuts of FF7. FF3 for the SNES did everything FF7 did and better. The characters were more unique and fun. The game was longer, not to mention it was just as deep. The only thing FF7 brought new to the table was garbage cut scenes. Yea I got your FF7 hate right here.
 
Yea, even the tracks that don't really stand out on their own musically, make SO much sense and work so well with their respective environments that it's an instant match.

Oh and I've played the original Suidoken to the end and I don't remember and of it's music. Maybe it's been too long since I've heard it.
 
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