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Firewatch | Spoiler Discussion
- Thread starter More_Badass
- Start date
zer0blivion
Member
This one was posted earlier in the thread and it's really good. Chris and Jane are also present.
There's also an interview with Sean Vanaman and Rich Sommer in the Giant Bomb Presents feed.
http://www.giantbomb.com/podcasts/talking-firewatch-with-sean-vanaman-and-rich-somme/1600-1503/
They haven't talked much about the game on Idle Thumbs yet.
The real photo company is actually a fictional company made up for the game ("Fotodome"). The photos are processed by Panic. They found a place that still prints custom photo lab envelopes and asked them to manufacture a ton that were Fotodome branded and filled out by Henry*, and then they bought a few semi-industrial digital photo printers the size of large microwaves and wrote their own management software for it.
There's a quick video of it all in action here:
https://twitter.com/panic/status/697888676546637824
Also some people dedinitely seem believe Fotodome is real, which is pretty good:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PmG3g3Ey_Es
* This confused the shit out of the envelope manufacturer at first. "Why are your forms already filled out? How will your customers use this?" I think they initially maybe thought Panic sent them a photocopy of an old form (just my guess). They look really authentic though, it's rad.
aw snap. you got me. pretty cool feature. makes me wanna replay it and not take shit photos this time, lol
oh yea, i found out about the photos from LGR originally lol
Dundar
Member
new noah-gervais video about firewatch and (also) the long dark. Pretty good, as usual:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Jiq56G-d5g
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Jiq56G-d5g
Finished in one sitting tonight - couldn't put the game down, even at 2am after playing for around 4-5 hours straight.
Really loved the art, the dialogue and banter, the voice acting, and that uncanny feeling of being alone and being watched that occupies a good chunk of the game. Seriously, the hair on my neck stood up for like 40% of the game, and that earned a LOT of points for me. I love it when a game can trigger your fight or flight response - it's like a natural high that can really elevate the experience to another level. When Henry got cold cocked after picking up the radio I practically jumped out of my skin - that was really well done. (The raccoon in the cabin furnace scared the shit out of me as well haha.) Also, the opening story (about Julia) was incredibly heartbreaking and touching as well.
I -didn't- like that the story didn't come together as well as I'd hoped in the end and that I didn't really feel much remorse for Brian's death apart from the usual sadness you'd feel for a child's untimely demise. For a little while, the mysteries were really exciting and LOST-esque in their design, so it was pretty disappointing (and hard to believe) that there really wasn't much to the fenced-off area and that Ned seemingly planted most of the interesting stuff himself. I'm all for grounded storytelling - I just didn't buy it in the end, to be honest. I was kinda hoping the ending would be as moving as the beginning, but it didn't really do it for me.
Still, the good FAR outweighed the bad, and it's clear there's insane talent on display here - I absolutely can't wait to see what's next for these guys. I know some of you are reading the thread, so if you do see this, congrats and keep up the good work. Also, thanks for the awesome five hours I had tonight.
Really loved the art, the dialogue and banter, the voice acting, and that uncanny feeling of being alone and being watched that occupies a good chunk of the game. Seriously, the hair on my neck stood up for like 40% of the game, and that earned a LOT of points for me. I love it when a game can trigger your fight or flight response - it's like a natural high that can really elevate the experience to another level. When Henry got cold cocked after picking up the radio I practically jumped out of my skin - that was really well done. (The raccoon in the cabin furnace scared the shit out of me as well haha.) Also, the opening story (about Julia) was incredibly heartbreaking and touching as well.
I -didn't- like that the story didn't come together as well as I'd hoped in the end and that I didn't really feel much remorse for Brian's death apart from the usual sadness you'd feel for a child's untimely demise. For a little while, the mysteries were really exciting and LOST-esque in their design, so it was pretty disappointing (and hard to believe) that there really wasn't much to the fenced-off area and that Ned seemingly planted most of the interesting stuff himself. I'm all for grounded storytelling - I just didn't buy it in the end, to be honest. I was kinda hoping the ending would be as moving as the beginning, but it didn't really do it for me.
Still, the good FAR outweighed the bad, and it's clear there's insane talent on display here - I absolutely can't wait to see what's next for these guys. I know some of you are reading the thread, so if you do see this, congrats and keep up the good work. Also, thanks for the awesome five hours I had tonight.
Those tweets are hardly vague
I like explicit examples not just opinions. It's why I prefer spoiler reviews instead of regular reviews.
CheesecakeRecipe
Stormy Grey
I won't put much stock into the words of someone who claims they were reminded that videogames are pointless and distracting.
He wasn't taking a shot at videogames, from the look of his twitter he obviously likes playing them. It was an analogy that the game was so disappointing that it reminded him of the pointlessness of life itself, lol
What I found interesting is even the majority of usually "happy" lets players I saw were very disappointed with the ending. So much so that they aren't even cutting the video up into parts - they're uploading the entire thing as one video.
PewDiePie's reaction in particular is just brutal, he hated it.
I will never understand why someone would make a narrative focused game without really focusing on the story.
H.Cornerstone
Member
Yeah... I feel the same way, the payoff was weak, but I played it in one day so it was very gripping and then at the end it's "that's it"?
(Plus it's kind of telegraphed).
I feel like I'm in the twilight zone where I think the Firewatch ending was absolutely perfect, and the explanations I've read from people who disliked it, simply hated it because it didn't do what they expected to happen (some crazy bombastic twist / some cliched payoff / some relationship forming between Henry and Delilah which doesn't actually fit based on how they were described as characters / etc.)
OrlanisWorks
Banned
You think its perfect. That's awesome and I wish I had the same experience. It isn't that the ending wasn't what I or others expected, it was the the ending was what I didn't expect all: sudden and half-baked. It didn't have to be crazy, but it could have been at least something beyond the mundane. It's simple disappointment that I don't think you understand if you think everyone who didn't like the ending simply expected something crazy or cliched. All that's expected is a good payoff and many players feel the game didn't earn the ending it gave us. We clearly had different expectations and yours paid off, so that's cool.
I feel the same way. I haven't written or posted anything about it really since all my thoughts X out why the ending is great have already been said better by people smarter than me, but... Yeah. I really liked it.
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
Yeah, well you just liked it simply because [reason that insults your intelligence here] and [reason that insinuates you're easily swayed by others opinions] and [reason backed by anecdotal evidence like anybody cares what you and your 2 friends care about].
Guess I need to post this again since there are some people who seem to have already forgotten after 2 page. Wow, how the mind slips!
"Allegedly"
Opening admitting to sexually assaulting someone(then banning anyone who called him out for it)
Posting revenge porn with their real full names then another admin(a now jailed pedophile) printed the photos and jacked off over them and sent it to the boyfriend.
You're right, how can we even know if he's guilty or not? HMMMM
Also:
Bog
Junior Ace
I completely regret buying it. They occasionally (randomly) mention a kid that only one of the two main characters even knew, and then I'm supposed to be in shock or moved when I find his body?
Oh but they did throw in going through all the kid's stuff 2 minutes before finding his body. So I guess that was supposed to make it more impactful.
And I was obviously never going to meet Delilah, as the developers never once gave me the idea they had any clue how to render a character model.
Waste of my time and money.
Oh but they did throw in going through all the kid's stuff 2 minutes before finding his body. So I guess that was supposed to make it more impactful.
And I was obviously never going to meet Delilah, as the developers never once gave me the idea they had any clue how to render a character model.
Waste of my time and money.
CheesecakeRecipe
Stormy Grey
After Jeff Green commented on Firewatch's similarities to Murakami novels, it helped me come to terms with a few things I was originally not sure of. Beyond Jeff's direct comparisons on the feeling of loneliness followed by wanting, and gradual ramp-up of a paranoia-inducing surreal set of circumstances, they both also toy with expectations on what we consider important. His most recent novel's final pages end on a cliffhanger, right before an enticing plotline can reach its conclusion. I've read plenty of criticisms which cite this and paint the book in a negative light because there's no resolution. I disagree - we'd already been given our resolution some 50 pages back. Whatever happened after was irrelevant. Much like Firewatch, it also ramps up in a way that taunts the reader with scraps of information that serve to add further mystique to the core concept of the plot. And, just like Firewatch, its resolution to that mystery was either loved or hated because they either enjoyed it for what it was, or kept wanting it to be something else.
I don't agree that Firewatch wasn't focusing on the story. I will say, however, that the point of the story is not going to please everyone. And I think it's perfectly fine for the general subset of players displeased with Firewatch not going where they wanted to be unhappy. It's just really strange to see so many insisting that the game be something it wasn't, rather than taking it on its own terms and critiquing what is there.
For me, I still have a hard time with suspending my disbelief that nobody would have reported Ned and Brian missing, or that Ned is able to evade detection for as long as he did. The exposition dump on the tape found near the end also harms the potential impact of most of the revelations made in those final moments. One point I've made several times when articulating my thoughts on Firewatch is that it really needed another hour or two to space out the facts rather than having Ned ramble it into a Talkboy. But, there's also no single answer for how they could have given the player that information succinctly while still keeping things in Henry's perspective. An extra in-game day or three to keep fleshing out the working relationship - not the romantic one - between Henry and Delilah could have also helped. It was mentioned on the IGN Spoilercast that the game's finale was rewritten close to the end of development, and I think it shows with how it segments itself off from the fluidity of what preceded it.
When we pick apart the story as it stands, there's plenty of areas the delivery could improve upon, which would have made Firewatch a much more solid exploration of the subdued themes it took aim at. Criticisms of that nature are much more interesting and rewarding to me.
Completely agreed that the emotional investment in Ned and Brian isn't particularly substantial or spaced out enough for the player to have an attachment to them. That moment when Brian's body is found in the cave falls flat for so many players because they've only ever heard a few anecdotes about him and his father, and just stumbled across his hideout a few minutes prior. Had there been more for Henry, and thus, the player, to latch onto, it might have resonated better and given greater payoff. Campo Santo would run into the risk of playing their hand too soon and giving away the resolution to the story, but I think there could have been a more even balance between every other plotline and what would eventually become the game's big reveal.
Something Nappuccino and I discussed over Steam last week was the disconnect between what the player thought Henry should feel and the abrupt self-agency Henry takes towards the end. Perhaps it is intentional for both Henry and the player to feel hollow towards the fate of Brian and Ned's breakdown which led to the hysterical conspiracy freakout in the middle of the game. Yet, I feel like the game's fluid dialog could have given Henry a better voice to express either his concern for, or lack of interest in, the entire revelation. Once I left the cave and reported my findings to Delilah, I noticed that Henry wasn't really the character I was shaping him up to be with the choices I made. Later on, I reported everything in Ned's bunker to Delilah, where he seemed to be completely oblivious to D's feelings on the matter. This again pulled me out of the moment. That's not how my Henry would be acting, which I think adds to the feeling of whiplash players feel during the final half hour.
I don't agree that Firewatch wasn't focusing on the story. I will say, however, that the point of the story is not going to please everyone. And I think it's perfectly fine for the general subset of players displeased with Firewatch not going where they wanted to be unhappy. It's just really strange to see so many insisting that the game be something it wasn't, rather than taking it on its own terms and critiquing what is there.
For me, I still have a hard time with suspending my disbelief that nobody would have reported Ned and Brian missing, or that Ned is able to evade detection for as long as he did. The exposition dump on the tape found near the end also harms the potential impact of most of the revelations made in those final moments. One point I've made several times when articulating my thoughts on Firewatch is that it really needed another hour or two to space out the facts rather than having Ned ramble it into a Talkboy. But, there's also no single answer for how they could have given the player that information succinctly while still keeping things in Henry's perspective. An extra in-game day or three to keep fleshing out the working relationship - not the romantic one - between Henry and Delilah could have also helped. It was mentioned on the IGN Spoilercast that the game's finale was rewritten close to the end of development, and I think it shows with how it segments itself off from the fluidity of what preceded it.
When we pick apart the story as it stands, there's plenty of areas the delivery could improve upon, which would have made Firewatch a much more solid exploration of the subdued themes it took aim at. Criticisms of that nature are much more interesting and rewarding to me.
Completely agreed that the emotional investment in Ned and Brian isn't particularly substantial or spaced out enough for the player to have an attachment to them. That moment when Brian's body is found in the cave falls flat for so many players because they've only ever heard a few anecdotes about him and his father, and just stumbled across his hideout a few minutes prior. Had there been more for Henry, and thus, the player, to latch onto, it might have resonated better and given greater payoff. Campo Santo would run into the risk of playing their hand too soon and giving away the resolution to the story, but I think there could have been a more even balance between every other plotline and what would eventually become the game's big reveal.
Something Nappuccino and I discussed over Steam last week was the disconnect between what the player thought Henry should feel and the abrupt self-agency Henry takes towards the end. Perhaps it is intentional for both Henry and the player to feel hollow towards the fate of Brian and Ned's breakdown which led to the hysterical conspiracy freakout in the middle of the game. Yet, I feel like the game's fluid dialog could have given Henry a better voice to express either his concern for, or lack of interest in, the entire revelation. Once I left the cave and reported my findings to Delilah, I noticed that Henry wasn't really the character I was shaping him up to be with the choices I made. Later on, I reported everything in Ned's bunker to Delilah, where he seemed to be completely oblivious to D's feelings on the matter. This again pulled me out of the moment. That's not how my Henry would be acting, which I think adds to the feeling of whiplash players feel during the final half hour.
I liked the ending, but I thought the delivery was a bit flawed. I am very happy that there wasn't any big conspiracy or anything and that Henry and Delilah just parted ways - all that was natural, grounded and kinda emotional - loved it.
The problem is Ned and his son Brian. The game distracts you from their story with all the red herrings and up until the very end I didn't even think they were related to the story. I didn't manage to develop any feelings for them. In the last part of the game, when Henry and Delilah are worrying for their lives, trying to escape, these moments about father and son kinda felt out of place, a few times I was thinking "why are you telling me this right now??".
tl;dr: There wasn't a good transition between "the great conspiracy" and "father's guilt story".
Ending was fine and made sense to me. I don't get the hate for it. The ending was open enough that you can think of a what if scenario on whether they meet or not. I had more problems with pieces of the narrative itself concerning Ned and his son. I watched the Kinda Funny spoilercast and Vanaman's explanation for the ending was fine although I think multiple endings would've been something that would've alleviated some people's disappointment. I think Jake admitting that they could've cleared up certain parts of the narrative was a good. Seems like budget was an issue and that made sense.
whatevermort
Member
coughlanio
Member
Played this last night in one sitting finally (on PC). Absolutely beautiful and immersive all the way through. The backtracking got a bit tiresome about halfway through, but thankfully days started skipping ahead towards the end.
The discovery of Brian down in the cave was a blow to my emotions I wasn't expecting. Personally I was expecting the person causing the mischief to be Brian, maybe being stranded on the island for years and going crazy. I assumed his fortress was a more recent thing given the condition of it.
It's early in the year, but it's definitely a contender for GOTY for me. Hopefully it's not forgotten by outlets as it gets to that time in December.
The discovery of Brian down in the cave was a blow to my emotions I wasn't expecting. Personally I was expecting the person causing the mischief to be Brian, maybe being stranded on the island for years and going crazy. I assumed his fortress was a more recent thing given the condition of it.
It's early in the year, but it's definitely a contender for GOTY for me. Hopefully it's not forgotten by outlets as it gets to that time in December.
Rawket Lawnchair
Member
Max Landis (writer of Chronicle) leaves his thoughts on Firewatch
brutal
I love how everyone thinks they can judge a story but when it comes to sitting down and writing a story of their own, all they do is twiddle their thumbs. This guy sounds like he would be happy if the game had aliens and an Illuminati conspiracy for an ending, and somehow ended in a bombastic cliffhanger that promised a sequel.
Bog
Junior Ace
You're completely right in this case, and I edited my post above. It's 100% my fault for wasting the money, and that's what I get for wanting to go in fresh, not looking into who was behind it, etc.
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
So, you pick quoting a proven writer as the person to highlight this one? Of all the terrible places to insert the "let's see your resume" fallacy, this may be the funniest. I mean, sure, Max Landis isn't exactly Shakespeare, but "twiddling his thumbs" isn't really applicable here.
And how far back through your post history would we have to go before we find you judging something without being an expert in the field, I wonder?
Langdon Alger
Banned
I would have liked the game a lot more if it didn't have any of the fake conspiracy stuff or any of the stuff with the dead kid. Just make it about a lonely guy and a woman with a troubled past and their relationship. It felt like the fake conspiracy stuff was just shoved into the story because they had to make it more video gamey.
... what? Landis is a professional Hollywood screenwriter
This is how I feel as well. I think the conspiracy stuff/father kid story would still be fine but as a B plot but it shouldn't have become the main story. The story setup and a good portion of this game was looking like it could be the videogame equivalent of Lost in Translation but then the focus completely shifted. Even with the story as is I don't think it earns what its trying to go for. Still enjoyed it a ton since I love the location, looks fantastic and its well voiced but its a shame the story didn't quite hit the mark the way it could have.
Haunted
Member
Yabberwocky
Member
I finished Firewatch today, and even though some parts of Ned's contribution to the story fell flat for me (Wapiti Station, for example), I thought it was a really memorable journey throughout. It was a unique, gorgeous game, with well-defined characters, interactivity and exploration. The art direction was impeccable, and the UI was stylish and clean throughout. It was a non-stop feast for the eyes. (I loved taking photos with the in-game camera.) Also, thank you to Camp Santo for my new favourite PS4 theme!
Along with the gorgeous world, what really stood out to me was the sharp and genuine writing on the characters. Delilah, Henry, and even Ned were all well-rounded human beings who had made some potentially shit decisions. It was interesting to see how they were dealing with the choices they had made, and the choices they still had ahead of them. The parallels between them were compelling as well. There was a bit of sad optimism to the ending, with Henry and Delilah (hopefully) having a positive effect on each other. The way I played Henry in my game, he did end up having a bit of an emotional affair with Delilah, but he also told tell her to go to Santa Fe in the end. I hope they'd meet up and have a friendly drink someday.
Props to Cissy Jones, her voice work on Delilah has to be one of the best performances I've ever heard in a video game. Because she gave such a natural, charismatic and genuine performance, I spent a lot of time interacting with everything and anything I could just to hear more dialogue from her. One of my favourite moments in the game was carrying timber to the top of the tower to fix the window, whilst Delilah and Henry were snarking at each other in posh English accents. Coming off the wonderful Life is Strange very recently, I couldn't believe that Delilah also voiced Joyce Price! Never picked up on it. She's just incredible.
My map/compass skills have always been atrocious (I did not volunteer for leading any camp-related bush orienteering when I was a kid!), so I groaned out loud when I realised what I'd be utilising to explore Shoshone National Forest. I was surprised how much I ended up enjoying the experience, and it was satisfying gradually accruing more tools to open up more of the map. My favourite example of this was stumbling into the impenetrable over-grown foliage at the beginning of the game whilst trying to get to the girls' fireworks display. Of course, I couldn't get through, and spent the rest of the game curious to see where it would lead to. It was only at the very end of the game when Henry needed to evacuate, and I had spent five minutes slightly lost due to the smoke (and not using my compass properly!) that I stumbled across my favourite over grown foliage once again. Alongside Henry's not-axe, it was my ticket to freedom.
I found the ending quite intense even after the post-Ned revelation, as I was a bit concerned what would happened to Henry next. I felt abandoned by Delilah after she'd taken the evacuation helicopter and left, and wondered if the helicopter wouldn't return for Henry. I also didn't realise the helicopter could leave if you held Henry back, which is a fantastic - and devastating - conclusion to his character arc.
I am a bit surprised people are saying Brian was barely referenced, as I felt Brian was mentioned quite consistently throughout the story. I spent the game wondering where the plot thread was going to end up with him and Ned. That being said, I don't remember how much of that referencing was optional through object interaction, so the criticism may be fair enough.
Max Landis' comment of Firewatch 'reminding (him) unintentionally how pointless and distracting video games are' genuinely annoys me. Even with the weaker parts of the game, Firewatch is a fantastic example to me why gaming is an incredible medium with such an exciting future ahead of it. The exploration of the world, the use of the compass/map, the detached yet simultaneously incredibly intimate interactions with Delilah - all things that are not possible in any other medium. Sure, you could have a film adaptation where you still have Delilah communicating with Henry via radio, but the added interaction via choosing Henry's dialogue takes it to a different level. My Henry's relationship with Delilah is different from that of another player's. It's also interesting that between SOMA and Firewatch, some of my most recent memorable gaming experiences have been interacting with a character over a radio.
I do also have to disagree with Mr Landis, because a video game felt like the perfect medium to explore this kind of story. I'd also rather a concise, experimental experience than five seasons later and getting burned similar to Lost or the Battlestar Galactica reboot. Firewatch's ending didn't really come out of left field, either, like the ME3 ending. The Ned/Brian sub plot was set-up very early in the game.
I can understand that some of the backlash is because the game's story ended up being a twist on the genre from what was advertised. That being said, I'm also surprised by some of the reactions because the prologue immediately sets the tone of the game. Without its inclusion, I'd be angry, too. Since the prologue was there, I'm a bit baffled how one could play through the beginning and not realise that Firewatch was going to be a more personal, character driven game, and that Henry's complicated feelings towards Lisa would be the main direction for the game's narrative. Even though the prologue was an engaging, I'd be lying if I didn't feel deflated when I realised that the game was not going to be what I expected from the trailer. I did spend my time with Firewatch wondering 'okay, where are they going with this?' because at the end, it all did have to come back to Henry, Lisa and whatever decision he would make next. I did think that the game resolved this beautifully, as Henry's and Lisa's situation doesn't end up with a magically correct answer. Delilah's past and her actions in regards to Brian made an interesting parallel.
...I'm also so relieved the game wasn't a metaphor, or that Henry wasn't the one with Alzheimer's. I also appreciate that the story is set up in such a way that you can still take it that way, if you'd like.
I think these comments are absolutely fair enough, too, and make really good points. Ned interfering with Wapiti Station didn't work for me quite so much, as it suddenly felt like we'd had a different genre change up. I didn't mind the inclusion of Ned and Brian to the overall narrative, but I don't think they were integrated quite as well as it could have been. I did make my peace with it a lot more after seeing the photos of Ned and Brian in the credits, as it gave a tangibility to Ned as a relatable character who loved his son but had made some terrible mistakes. I have to admit, I also would have loved Firewatch to be a straight-up horror/thriller, too, even though what it became instead was something just as special. The experience of travelling through an isolated world and knowing you were being stalked was very memorable, especially after the girls went 'missing'. (I may have yelped when Ned knocked out Henry with the torch.) It was exciting to finally see another human being face-to-face in the helicopter at the end of the game.
All that extremely TL;DR blather aside, I can't wait to see what's next from Camp Santo! I'd also love to buy a map replica of the Shoshone National Forest with Henry's notes to remind me of my lazy compass failures. Take my money!
Along with the gorgeous world, what really stood out to me was the sharp and genuine writing on the characters. Delilah, Henry, and even Ned were all well-rounded human beings who had made some potentially shit decisions. It was interesting to see how they were dealing with the choices they had made, and the choices they still had ahead of them. The parallels between them were compelling as well. There was a bit of sad optimism to the ending, with Henry and Delilah (hopefully) having a positive effect on each other. The way I played Henry in my game, he did end up having a bit of an emotional affair with Delilah, but he also told tell her to go to Santa Fe in the end. I hope they'd meet up and have a friendly drink someday.
Props to Cissy Jones, her voice work on Delilah has to be one of the best performances I've ever heard in a video game. Because she gave such a natural, charismatic and genuine performance, I spent a lot of time interacting with everything and anything I could just to hear more dialogue from her. One of my favourite moments in the game was carrying timber to the top of the tower to fix the window, whilst Delilah and Henry were snarking at each other in posh English accents. Coming off the wonderful Life is Strange very recently, I couldn't believe that Delilah also voiced Joyce Price! Never picked up on it. She's just incredible.
My map/compass skills have always been atrocious (I did not volunteer for leading any camp-related bush orienteering when I was a kid!), so I groaned out loud when I realised what I'd be utilising to explore Shoshone National Forest. I was surprised how much I ended up enjoying the experience, and it was satisfying gradually accruing more tools to open up more of the map. My favourite example of this was stumbling into the impenetrable over-grown foliage at the beginning of the game whilst trying to get to the girls' fireworks display. Of course, I couldn't get through, and spent the rest of the game curious to see where it would lead to. It was only at the very end of the game when Henry needed to evacuate, and I had spent five minutes slightly lost due to the smoke (and not using my compass properly!) that I stumbled across my favourite over grown foliage once again. Alongside Henry's not-axe, it was my ticket to freedom.
I found the ending quite intense even after the post-Ned revelation, as I was a bit concerned what would happened to Henry next. I felt abandoned by Delilah after she'd taken the evacuation helicopter and left, and wondered if the helicopter wouldn't return for Henry. I also didn't realise the helicopter could leave if you held Henry back, which is a fantastic - and devastating - conclusion to his character arc.
I am a bit surprised people are saying Brian was barely referenced, as I felt Brian was mentioned quite consistently throughout the story. I spent the game wondering where the plot thread was going to end up with him and Ned. That being said, I don't remember how much of that referencing was optional through object interaction, so the criticism may be fair enough.
Max Landis' comment of Firewatch 'reminding (him) unintentionally how pointless and distracting video games are' genuinely annoys me. Even with the weaker parts of the game, Firewatch is a fantastic example to me why gaming is an incredible medium with such an exciting future ahead of it. The exploration of the world, the use of the compass/map, the detached yet simultaneously incredibly intimate interactions with Delilah - all things that are not possible in any other medium. Sure, you could have a film adaptation where you still have Delilah communicating with Henry via radio, but the added interaction via choosing Henry's dialogue takes it to a different level. My Henry's relationship with Delilah is different from that of another player's. It's also interesting that between SOMA and Firewatch, some of my most recent memorable gaming experiences have been interacting with a character over a radio.
I do also have to disagree with Mr Landis, because a video game felt like the perfect medium to explore this kind of story. I'd also rather a concise, experimental experience than five seasons later and getting burned similar to Lost or the Battlestar Galactica reboot. Firewatch's ending didn't really come out of left field, either, like the ME3 ending. The Ned/Brian sub plot was set-up very early in the game.
I can understand that some of the backlash is because the game's story ended up being a twist on the genre from what was advertised. That being said, I'm also surprised by some of the reactions because the prologue immediately sets the tone of the game. Without its inclusion, I'd be angry, too. Since the prologue was there, I'm a bit baffled how one could play through the beginning and not realise that Firewatch was going to be a more personal, character driven game, and that Henry's complicated feelings towards Lisa would be the main direction for the game's narrative. Even though the prologue was an engaging, I'd be lying if I didn't feel deflated when I realised that the game was not going to be what I expected from the trailer. I did spend my time with Firewatch wondering 'okay, where are they going with this?' because at the end, it all did have to come back to Henry, Lisa and whatever decision he would make next. I did think that the game resolved this beautifully, as Henry's and Lisa's situation doesn't end up with a magically correct answer. Delilah's past and her actions in regards to Brian made an interesting parallel.
...I'm also so relieved the game wasn't a metaphor, or that Henry wasn't the one with Alzheimer's. I also appreciate that the story is set up in such a way that you can still take it that way, if you'd like.
I think these comments are absolutely fair enough, too, and make really good points. Ned interfering with Wapiti Station didn't work for me quite so much, as it suddenly felt like we'd had a different genre change up. I didn't mind the inclusion of Ned and Brian to the overall narrative, but I don't think they were integrated quite as well as it could have been. I did make my peace with it a lot more after seeing the photos of Ned and Brian in the credits, as it gave a tangibility to Ned as a relatable character who loved his son but had made some terrible mistakes. I have to admit, I also would have loved Firewatch to be a straight-up horror/thriller, too, even though what it became instead was something just as special. The experience of travelling through an isolated world and knowing you were being stalked was very memorable, especially after the girls went 'missing'. (I may have yelped when Ned knocked out Henry with the torch.) It was exciting to finally see another human being face-to-face in the helicopter at the end of the game.
All that extremely TL;DR blather aside, I can't wait to see what's next from Camp Santo! I'd also love to buy a map replica of the Shoshone National Forest with Henry's notes to remind me of my lazy compass failures. Take my money!
Finished it a couple days ago and felt empty/sad at the ending, like nothing changed for anyone. And that's fine since I don't need a happy ending, i just wish Delilah and Henry would have exchanged numbers or addresses to phone/write each other. I mean they spent three months really talking to each other and seeming to get real close and it just ends with a racoon in Henrys truck? Sad, man.
And I love the ps4 theme.
And I love the ps4 theme.
swearing-circle
Member
Don't understand how anyone can say the two leads are well rounded characters. Sure, they have we written dialogue but we learn nothing about them except for an exposition dump we get about Henry at the start. The mystery becomes the focus and Henry and Delilah become even more obscure to us.
I remember hearing about how Valve put a lot of effort into the endings of their games (Portal 2 in particular) because they thought how a player feels at the ending will really shape their memory of the entire game.
Definitely think that applies here. When I think of is game all I can think about is the completely empty ending.
I enjoyed parts of this game but thinking about it in hindsight just makes me really mad.
Definitely think that applies here. When I think of is game all I can think about is the completely empty ending.
I enjoyed parts of this game but thinking about it in hindsight just makes me really mad.
Owlowiscious
Member
I enjoyed all of firewatch, but I'm a fan of 'slice of life, nothing happens' stories
RipperGrim
Member
I don't know how you couldn't have learned anything about them throughout the game.
Having finished it last night, I'm really surprised there seems to be such a backlash to the story. Having it be a little personal story hit me a lot harder than Big Government Conspiracy would - I got full body chills discovering Brian's body.
The misdirection was maybe a little *too* strong, but I don't feel like I needed to meet Delilah or 'achieve' something meaningful in game, it was the story of a man running away from his problems and confronting some sad truths out in the wilderness which often does shock a person out of their previous mindset.
Overall I think it was one of the best of the FPX games I've played (I prefer not to use the term walking-sim), though it's hard to compare Dr. Langeskov, Stanley Parable, Gone Home and Beginner's Guide. Definitely preferred it to Dear Esther and Rapture, but I am just really enjoying this whole genre right now.
The misdirection was maybe a little *too* strong, but I don't feel like I needed to meet Delilah or 'achieve' something meaningful in game, it was the story of a man running away from his problems and confronting some sad truths out in the wilderness which often does shock a person out of their previous mindset.
Overall I think it was one of the best of the FPX games I've played (I prefer not to use the term walking-sim), though it's hard to compare Dr. Langeskov, Stanley Parable, Gone Home and Beginner's Guide. Definitely preferred it to Dear Esther and Rapture, but I am just really enjoying this whole genre right now.
semiconscious
Member
the more i read in this thread, the more i become convinced that i just never really got around to 'immersing' myself enough in this game
...i still blame that damn bag with the keys hung on the alarm - game completely jumped the shark there for me. pretty much lost all interest at that point...
benicillin
Banned
I mean I've said it before but I disagree with people who think that the Ned and Brian stuff came out of nowhere. I played about 7 hours over the course of three nights and felt like I was familiar enough with Ned and Brian long before the body reveal to have that moment hit home for me. I'm not sure how much of it was critical path and how much of it was because I spent so much damn time exploring, but I felt like they were brought up often enough to the point where Ned being involved was something in the back of my mind for a while.
From podcasts they've been on it seems like Campo Santo knew that the ending would be divisive because it's not the kind of story often told, but to me that's always been the whole point of the game. Henry and Delilah were like ships passing in the night, they were never going to meet it would have cheapened the whole thing.
Even though I fully bought into the conspiracy for a while, I'm not sure how anyone could really truly expect that the game's ending would be some larger than life genre thing when it started with the most brutal gut-punch of realism I've ever experienced in a game. If you start with the story of a loved one losing everything to a mental disease and end with a crazy scifi conspiracy where you get the girl, what was the point of the introduction? It was always a story about Henry trying to forget himself in the wilderness for a time before ultimately having to go home and stop running away from his problems, and his journey is reflected in both Ned and Delilah.
From podcasts they've been on it seems like Campo Santo knew that the ending would be divisive because it's not the kind of story often told, but to me that's always been the whole point of the game. Henry and Delilah were like ships passing in the night, they were never going to meet it would have cheapened the whole thing.
Even though I fully bought into the conspiracy for a while, I'm not sure how anyone could really truly expect that the game's ending would be some larger than life genre thing when it started with the most brutal gut-punch of realism I've ever experienced in a game. If you start with the story of a loved one losing everything to a mental disease and end with a crazy scifi conspiracy where you get the girl, what was the point of the introduction? It was always a story about Henry trying to forget himself in the wilderness for a time before ultimately having to go home and stop running away from his problems, and his journey is reflected in both Ned and Delilah.