Apparently the one variation is that you can not get on the helicopter, and be left behind, but, aside from that, yeah.
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Firewatch | Spoiler Discussion
- Thread starter More_Badass
- Start date
Apparently the one variation is that you can not get on the helicopter, and be left behind, but, aside from that, yeah.
RetrospectiveLamb
Member
Regarding the ending, it felt like Delilah used Henry as a conduit to deal with the loneliness of the job in how she never confronted her accountability towards Brian's death or why she lied about Javier's breakup. Likewise, Henry needed to escape from the reality of his wife's dementia, which inadvertently drove his marriage through the woodshed.
It was bittersweet they never got to meet face to face, but I think both characters were isolated in their surroundings and they needed to go back to reality and confront the past decisions they've made in life. What a cool interesting game, looking forward to what that studio does next.
It was bittersweet they never got to meet face to face, but I think both characters were isolated in their surroundings and they needed to go back to reality and confront the past decisions they've made in life. What a cool interesting game, looking forward to what that studio does next.
Langdon Alger
Banned
Completely agree with this.
Eh, Lost was just throwing tons of intriging, mysterious stuff at the wall and then the writers trying to think of an ending after the fact, because as a TV show they had no idea how long they'd have to keep the story going. Firewatch has red herrings and misdirection, but it's obviously written as a complete story.
That said, I also didn't think the ending was dissapointing.
benicillin
Banned
I've been trying to figure out why Ned would go through all the trouble of faking that research center stuff to scare off Henry and Delilah and ultimately came to the conclusion that he was projecting the things that scare him or make him paranoid.
As a paranoid outdoors guy who, from what we know, kind of lived off the grid, the idea of a government monitoring his communications and whereabouts in a research station would probably be something he thought about often, and lacking any other solution to deal with Henry and Delilah probably made the most sense to him.
As a paranoid outdoors guy who, from what we know, kind of lived off the grid, the idea of a government monitoring his communications and whereabouts in a research station would probably be something he thought about often, and lacking any other solution to deal with Henry and Delilah probably made the most sense to him.
It's weird to say that the following is "just my opinion," when I worked on the game, but it is that. I don't know if I have the canonical explanation for the workings of Ned Goodwin's mind but here's my take, more or less:
My thought on "why plant evidence in Wapiti," was that when Henry and Delilah brought it up first, he rolled with it. Until Henry and Delilah started imbuing the research site with meaning, I don't think it was anything special to Goodwin. He had opportunistically pilfered some supplies from there before, the same way he did from two forks, from hikers who passed through, but had no grand fears or ambitions for that locale.
So when he fucked up and left the Wapiti clipboard behind and Henry and Delilah jumped the gun and immediately started spinning themselves up about conspiracy, he leaned into it, and ran back to his place to hastily type up some "reports," rushed to get them into that tent in a semi-believable way before Henry got there, and did kind of a sloppy job, knocking all the shit over on the desk in his rush to get in and out. I always read that moment and Ned's motivation as "Henry and Delilah think it's some organized 'they' listening to them? Okay I'll give that to them and maybe they'll leave me alone."
(You're probably also correct that this plan partially came easily to Goodwin out of mistrust and rumination about the government, given his situation and what we know of his personality.)
benicillin
Banned
Very interesting! I should probably play through a second time to refresh the series of events in my mind - since they were the first ones who brought up the idea of a 'conspiracy' then that explanation makes a lot of sense.
Here's the Kinda Funny spoiler talk with Sean and Jake about Firewatch, they talk a lot about the ending and their overall feelings about it, really good video:
Firewatch Spoilercast with Campo Santo
Firewatch Spoilercast with Campo Santo
Finished the game - loved it.
What was the deal with the photo of Henry and Julia always being tipped over on the desk, even though you just put it back in the window? I guess you could say it was the game's way of reminding you about Julia, kinda like a thought that always comes back to you - you can't let it go or control it.
What was the deal with the photo of Henry and Julia always being tipped over on the desk, even though you just put it back in the window? I guess you could say it was the game's way of reminding you about Julia, kinda like a thought that always comes back to you - you can't let it go or control it.
bodyofanamerican
Member
In my opinion, it was Henry not wanting to think about her, thus, just putting it face down on the desk.
Conscience Falls
Member
I'm around the 18-minute mark and they just read my question. Forgot I submitted one so I did a double take when I heard my full name.
I did all you can essentially do in the game but they're making me want to revisit again.
This is SO awesome. Thank you for sharing.
Moon_frogger
Member
How did they not know about a scientific study on the land they were supposed to be overseeing? Especially when the scientists were in direct contact with the fire department? The way it sort of downplayed the experiments at the end was flat out lazy. Other than that I enjoyed the game a lot. There were a ton of moments that made me feel stuff. Henry was a great character and the exploration was top tier
Did anyone else find the ski by the tree at Cottonwood Creek? I was surprised there wasn't a radio dialogue on it considering all the other abandoned stuff you find you can ask Delilah about it. Oooh, another mystery!
Twist: There was dialogue written for it and then we forgot to record it.
Ha! I really thought it was weird that there wasn'-wait, is this commentary on the general malaise of adult life?!Twist: There was dialogue written for it and then we forgot to record it.
Twist: There was dialogue written for it and then we forgot to record it.
geez, i was really curious about that.
what was it?
CrichtonKicks
Member
"They" did know. Delilah didn't. If she doesn't then Henry doesn't know. She's only there for the summer- it could have been set up during another season. I believe there is even a conversation that I didn't get where she says basically "oops, there was a memo here about it that I never read".
TheHollowNight
Member
This has probably been answered somewhere, but what's the deal with the infestation of pine cones everywhere? Do they have any significance or Is it some sort of goofy running gag within the team?
BlitzEngineer
Member
Finished the game in one sitting. Ultimately, I really wanted to like Firewatch but it just feels like the game kinda goes nowhere. There are hints at interesting ideas here but they never really wrap up at all.
To my mind, the narrative has basically two sides. One is the human story between H and D, focusing around H's guilt of running away from his problems essentially. I feel like Ned is supposed to be sort of an extreme version of Henry, someone who sort of fucks up through little fault of their own (though Ned is certianly more at fault than Henry is) but then just shuts down and runs from their guilt.
I feel like there could be an interesting conversation here, because it does feel like Henry is happy for the first time in awhile, he's flirting with Delilah, building a relationship. Basically he's run from his problems and is better for it. I think what they wanted was for him to at some point come to a crossroads with Delilah where he either realizes he has to go back and stop running, or comes to terms with the fact that doing a shitty thing and abandoning his sick wife is really better for his own health.
I can just imagine a heated argument where Henry wants to run away with Delilah and she calls him on his cowardice, that he's a shitty person for running away, and the question left to the player is "What's more important? Doing whats right and sticking by your sick wife at the detriment of your own life and mental well being, or escaping from it and being happy?"
The thing is the game doesn't go in that direction. D and H's relationship just sort of ends. Even if you try and ask D to come with you back to Boulder she just shrugs you off, and that's that. Super weird conclusion to an otherwise well written relationship, even if it's not fleshed out as much as it maybe could be.
The other side of the narrative is the conspiracy stuff, which I have more direct problems with. The entire game is basically Red Herring: The Game constantly manipulating the player into thinking there is some broad x files shit going down only to reveal an anticlimactic conclusion. Then there's stuff like the Delilah phone conversation, which is literally just thrown at the player and then never addressed. The ripped up girl's tent which is never addressed, the girls themselves who it turns out just left and "LOL were in jail the whole time! Gotcha!". I think the point is really just to make the player and the characters feel paranoid and ultimately let them down, but it's just not effective. It just feels cheap.
It's further cheapened by the fact that all of this was perpetuated by Ned, which is fine, except none of his behavior makes any goddamn sense. Even if you handwave away the science station being abandoned and not on any maps despite shitloads of rangers and lookouts all over the place, there are other problems. Why does Ned fuck with Henry in the first place if he's really just trying to hide? Why did he not just dispose of the body? Why does he stash the key to the cave in a random fucking backpack hanging on a tree when he has a secret goddamn bunker? Where the fuck did he get this dumbass convoluted plan to write up psych analysis to freak the protagonists out? The only way to explain all this is that Ned is just completely out of his mind, but the game doesn't seem to really infer that at all.
They do an awesome job of building up tension and mystery on the conspiracy side, and then just fart out the entire plot on the last day on a radio tied to a string, turns out really nothing was going on other than being fucked with by an old man. They do an awesome job of building a human relationship and believable rapport between two apparently damaged individuals and then just end it unceremoniously, with no indication that anybody has grown.
Oh, and then the game part which was just sort of boring traversal around an admittedly gorgeous environment.
I feel like they should have just told their personal story between H and D, left all the conspiracy crap at the door, and spent that time actually developing the relationship more, and if not resolving it, at least asking some tough questions. Instead the game is just a big "Meh" for me.
To my mind, the narrative has basically two sides. One is the human story between H and D, focusing around H's guilt of running away from his problems essentially. I feel like Ned is supposed to be sort of an extreme version of Henry, someone who sort of fucks up through little fault of their own (though Ned is certianly more at fault than Henry is) but then just shuts down and runs from their guilt.
I feel like there could be an interesting conversation here, because it does feel like Henry is happy for the first time in awhile, he's flirting with Delilah, building a relationship. Basically he's run from his problems and is better for it. I think what they wanted was for him to at some point come to a crossroads with Delilah where he either realizes he has to go back and stop running, or comes to terms with the fact that doing a shitty thing and abandoning his sick wife is really better for his own health.
I can just imagine a heated argument where Henry wants to run away with Delilah and she calls him on his cowardice, that he's a shitty person for running away, and the question left to the player is "What's more important? Doing whats right and sticking by your sick wife at the detriment of your own life and mental well being, or escaping from it and being happy?"
The thing is the game doesn't go in that direction. D and H's relationship just sort of ends. Even if you try and ask D to come with you back to Boulder she just shrugs you off, and that's that. Super weird conclusion to an otherwise well written relationship, even if it's not fleshed out as much as it maybe could be.
The other side of the narrative is the conspiracy stuff, which I have more direct problems with. The entire game is basically Red Herring: The Game constantly manipulating the player into thinking there is some broad x files shit going down only to reveal an anticlimactic conclusion. Then there's stuff like the Delilah phone conversation, which is literally just thrown at the player and then never addressed. The ripped up girl's tent which is never addressed, the girls themselves who it turns out just left and "LOL were in jail the whole time! Gotcha!". I think the point is really just to make the player and the characters feel paranoid and ultimately let them down, but it's just not effective. It just feels cheap.
It's further cheapened by the fact that all of this was perpetuated by Ned, which is fine, except none of his behavior makes any goddamn sense. Even if you handwave away the science station being abandoned and not on any maps despite shitloads of rangers and lookouts all over the place, there are other problems. Why does Ned fuck with Henry in the first place if he's really just trying to hide? Why did he not just dispose of the body? Why does he stash the key to the cave in a random fucking backpack hanging on a tree when he has a secret goddamn bunker? Where the fuck did he get this dumbass convoluted plan to write up psych analysis to freak the protagonists out? The only way to explain all this is that Ned is just completely out of his mind, but the game doesn't seem to really infer that at all.
They do an awesome job of building up tension and mystery on the conspiracy side, and then just fart out the entire plot on the last day on a radio tied to a string, turns out really nothing was going on other than being fucked with by an old man. They do an awesome job of building a human relationship and believable rapport between two apparently damaged individuals and then just end it unceremoniously, with no indication that anybody has grown.
Oh, and then the game part which was just sort of boring traversal around an admittedly gorgeous environment.
I feel like they should have just told their personal story between H and D, left all the conspiracy crap at the door, and spent that time actually developing the relationship more, and if not resolving it, at least asking some tough questions. Instead the game is just a big "Meh" for me.
80s Bad Guy
Banned
Opus Angelorum
Member
It's clear the game wasn't shown to many people before release.
Whilst some people are happy with the ending, the vast majority are either indifferent or disappointed.
With a large enough sample size, this surely would have became an issue during development. That, or the developers were set on the ending no matter what others thought.
Whilst some people are happy with the ending, the vast majority are either indifferent or disappointed.
With a large enough sample size, this surely would have became an issue during development. That, or the developers were set on the ending no matter what others thought.
The Jackdog
Member
honestly i think the game would of benefited insanely from an extra day or two where you just get more information on ned and his kid. a quiet day with no conspiracy stuff, similar to going to the lake with the girls skinny dipping, while getting some more exposition on ned and his kid, delilah, etc. just one or two extra quiet days
Breakfast at Noon
Member
I really wanted it too be Henry that had dementia and Delilah was his nurse, would of explained a lot more in my eyes.
From his wife talking too him and saying how nice the nurse was, The loneliness of his life and the constant "surveillance"
Even the fire could of been a metaphor for his memories burning away.
From his wife talking too him and saying how nice the nurse was, The loneliness of his life and the constant "surveillance"
Even the fire could of been a metaphor for his memories burning away.
The Jackdog
Member
the fire being his creeping dementia, i thought about that too.
Breakfast at Noon
Member
This would of had a lot more impact as a story, and a view of someone suffering.
Unless this was right but of course, the person with dementia would never find out, so neither do we?
also it seems i was editing that in the same time you posted lol.
Finished the game last night. My thoughts:
- Game near hooked me right off the bat with Henry's story of his wife's dementia and the struggles he had dealing with that situation. Never had to deal with that personally, but I felt for him and how he had to deal with losing someone he deeply cared for even though they are still there. Definitely was expecting more of a "cheating" issue than a medical one at the start.
- The mystery of the stranger rummaging through my stuff, the teenagers, the fenced off area all drove me forward in the story. The tiny tidbits of information I could get just added to my wonder of what was happening to Henry and Delilah and the why. It made no sense why anyone would be tracking us, looking through our stuff, and recording our every conversation. I had to find out the why.
- Interactions between Henry and Delilah were fantastic from start to finish. Every conversation felt authentic. I loved being able to choose how much of my story I told to Delilah and how much I got in return from her for my honesty. The problems with Ned, the conversations she had with Brian and her reaction with their inevitable ends.
- While I enjoyed the lead up to the end (the first two acts were amazing in terms of pacing and mystery), the end itself left me a bit unsatisfied. While what we did get was more in line with what would actually happen and was heartbreaking, all the mysteries and weird shit had such boring revelations. Again, probably a tribute to real life over our own wild fantasies of government conspiracy, aliens and whatever else we can cook up. A bit more depth on Ned could have gone a long way, though I did feel for Brian and his situation. I choked up when I came across is body in the cave.
- The game looks beautiful, regardless of it's technical issues. I took a few screenshots and pictures of the area during the game.
Overall, I did enjoy the game and hope that Campo Santo makes another narrative-driven game. They did a fantastic job in conveying their story through dialogue and interesting characters, and I look forward to whatever they do in the future.
- Game near hooked me right off the bat with Henry's story of his wife's dementia and the struggles he had dealing with that situation. Never had to deal with that personally, but I felt for him and how he had to deal with losing someone he deeply cared for even though they are still there. Definitely was expecting more of a "cheating" issue than a medical one at the start.
- The mystery of the stranger rummaging through my stuff, the teenagers, the fenced off area all drove me forward in the story. The tiny tidbits of information I could get just added to my wonder of what was happening to Henry and Delilah and the why. It made no sense why anyone would be tracking us, looking through our stuff, and recording our every conversation. I had to find out the why.
- Interactions between Henry and Delilah were fantastic from start to finish. Every conversation felt authentic. I loved being able to choose how much of my story I told to Delilah and how much I got in return from her for my honesty. The problems with Ned, the conversations she had with Brian and her reaction with their inevitable ends.
- While I enjoyed the lead up to the end (the first two acts were amazing in terms of pacing and mystery), the end itself left me a bit unsatisfied. While what we did get was more in line with what would actually happen and was heartbreaking, all the mysteries and weird shit had such boring revelations. Again, probably a tribute to real life over our own wild fantasies of government conspiracy, aliens and whatever else we can cook up. A bit more depth on Ned could have gone a long way, though I did feel for Brian and his situation. I choked up when I came across is body in the cave.
- The game looks beautiful, regardless of it's technical issues. I took a few screenshots and pictures of the area during the game.
Overall, I did enjoy the game and hope that Campo Santo makes another narrative-driven game. They did a fantastic job in conveying their story through dialogue and interesting characters, and I look forward to whatever they do in the future.
Did you notice how when you stepped out of the tent, you could see Delilah's tower as well? So, if she could spot you rambling down some rocks on Day 2, there's no way she couldn't have spotted the fence and the campsite.
80s Bad Guy
Banned
Yeah, this. There are other changes I could ask for, certainly getting rid of Ned doctoring the research notes, maybe have the Ned and his son thing more focused on Henry to pull out the isolation/paranoia angle on him more, but those are more personal requests and really just having a few more days of work before the first time skip would help the most.
I think this is doing well for them? That's what I heard and hope it's true. Wish them all the best and can't wait to see what's next.
Very much this.
All the red herrings about some uber mystery with government conspiracies, missing people, and a phone conversation with Delilah you overhear all leading to one of the worst payoffs I've seen in a gaming story(well, the ones I play anyway). That most of these get wrapped up in the last day when you have to just to a helicopter is so disappointing I have trouble getting it into words.
All the little choices you make in the game(Julia's photo is always overturned each day, do you put on the wedding ring again or not) all amount to fuck-all in terms of a payoff. Game had such a great beginning and was solid most of the way through, then totally petered out in the last half hour. It had the feel of a game studio running out of money for the project and having to wrap it up as quickly as they could... :\
From Reddit, a plot theory that ties up a lot of the functionally useless events (getting locked in cave, other person D talks to on open mic, big fire starting).
Jest Chillin
Member
That theory is all kinds of wonky, timeline wise. Not the least of which is the fact that the Firewatch only works during the Summer and Brian's body is way too far decomposed for his death to have happened anytime recently.
Brian looked like he was either in the Black Putrefaction or Fermentation state of decay, all of which can happen within 10 to 50 days after death.
Jest Chillin
Member
His skin was shriveled. I don't know the technical qualifications but 50 days seems mighty fast for that.
Nappuccino
Member
I'm really glad that they did not do this. Let metaphors be metaphors. Let the story be the story. To have everything be "not real" reduces the actual impact. Not to mention you see these stories all the time in workshops. Stories that succeed without a world-shattering twist will last much longer, imo.
prag16
Banned
Finished this last night (did it in two sittings over two nights, around 4.5 hours total), and not quite sure what to make of it. Can't help but feel like the ending was unfulfilling. The Henry/Delilah arc doesn't have any kind of satisfying conclusion, and there seem to be a TON of red herrings strewn about that end up amounting to absolutely nothing, unless I missed a bunch of stuff... There's just no story payoff. For anything. Having come right from The Witness which was even "worse" in this regard, didn't help any.
Wasn't a fan of the approach they took with shitting out a narrative dump on a voice recording as the big reveal.
The game actually got me to buy the rapport and dynamic Henry and Delilah had going. I said fuck it, and pursued the "romance" type of options where available. Henry had been dealt a shitty hand, had made a couple poor decisions, and now maybe had a shot at finding some amount of peace. Sure, go for it.
Instead, Delilah (who may not have been being honest with Henry about various things?) just says loljk "nothing to do here" and jetpacks the fuck out of there.
I predicted in my head very early on that the game would find a way to have the two main characters never lay eyes on eachother (up close) and rolled my eyes when that turned out to be correct.
Cool game though, and I'll be greatly interested in whatever they do next, even if this third act of this one fell kind of flat for me.
Wasn't a fan of the approach they took with shitting out a narrative dump on a voice recording as the big reveal.
The game actually got me to buy the rapport and dynamic Henry and Delilah had going. I said fuck it, and pursued the "romance" type of options where available. Henry had been dealt a shitty hand, had made a couple poor decisions, and now maybe had a shot at finding some amount of peace. Sure, go for it.
Instead, Delilah (who may not have been being honest with Henry about various things?) just says loljk "nothing to do here" and jetpacks the fuck out of there.
I predicted in my head very early on that the game would find a way to have the two main characters never lay eyes on eachother (up close) and rolled my eyes when that turned out to be correct.
Cool game though, and I'll be greatly interested in whatever they do next, even if this third act of this one fell kind of flat for me.
UcchedavÄda
Member
The boy is basically mummified when you find him, with a skin-color and apparent desiccation that is reminiscent of mummies found in cold places:
Henry even comments on the temperature in the cave, which would have helped preserve the body.
Thanks for putting this into words. I fully agree with you.
Twist: There was dialogue written for it and then we forgot to record it.
Ohh crazy! Very interesting to know!
Ucchedavāda;195636128 said:
We have a (now-empty) Slack channel called #picture-of-a-corpse cordoned off from the main art channel and it has bad photos in it. It was nothing compared to the photo reference we had to look at on Walking Dead when figuring out what a bashed in face would look like, when you pulled part of it off with a claw hammer, etc, but it was still super gross.
Nappuccino
Member
The things you do for art.
José Mourinho
cocknose
Finished this today. Enjoyed the raport between Henry and Delilah. Liked the scenery and the initial sense of mystery. By the end I wasn't exactly sure what Ned's motive was. If he doesn't want to get rumbled then surely not follwing Henry with a flashlight and ransacking his lookout tower would be exactly the sort of behaviour to avoid. Thought most of the plot after discovering the truth fell a bit flat.
TheHollowNight
Member
I enjoyed this alternate theory on Geek Remix:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpKFxN1tukg&ab_channel=GeekRemix
The theory doesn't hold up as the folks at Campo have cleared up some story details since, on spoilercasts and what not.
But the main thing that stood out for me is, how the hell did Delilah really hike all the way over and PAST your tower to drop off that second walkie talkie? It's like around 14-18 miles to hike to Cottonmeadow and back. Why wouldn't she just drop it off to you personally? Or at least closer to her side of the forest....It's super weird behavior. Especially since she tells you to go find it around like before noon that day.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpKFxN1tukg&ab_channel=GeekRemix
The theory doesn't hold up as the folks at Campo have cleared up some story details since, on spoilercasts and what not.
But the main thing that stood out for me is, how the hell did Delilah really hike all the way over and PAST your tower to drop off that second walkie talkie? It's like around 14-18 miles to hike to Cottonmeadow and back. Why wouldn't she just drop it off to you personally? Or at least closer to her side of the forest....It's super weird behavior. Especially since she tells you to go find it around like before noon that day.
BrightLightLava
Unconfirmed Member
I love Geek Remix (even though sometimes they show you just how difficult it can be to avoid saying something that might offend someone), they did a nice Let's Play of the game, too.
Any recommendations as far as spoilercasts to listen to with them on it? I want to listen to a few.
Did they talk about the game on Idle Thumbs?
UcchedavÄda
Member
Ergh, that sounds rather unpleasant to have to deal with.
Hopefully your other research was more enjoyable.