• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

First Death by Autonomous Vehicle Accident

SatansReverence

Hipster Princess
But here this person was on the outside. In the new video she was complete in the middle of the car. I really would like to see someone react to this one and make it.
The impact was on the right side headlight maybe 3/4 point.

But this conversation does highlight why we apparently need automated cars. Drivers these days are expected to be pathetically incompetent and entirely distracted while driving in this day and age.

Yes, that would have been avoidable by any experienced and attentive driver. Unfortunately, the requirements to get a drivers license almost anywhere in the world (including first world countries like USA, UK and Australia) is tragically low. You get taught how to pass a test and follow basic road rules. Never how to actually drive a car.
 

Nice share, interesting that mobileye is commenting.

If I can classify the person 1 second before the vehicle hits( which watching the video I can ) then a computer potentially can. I don't think this means Uber should have been able to avoid this collision. I say this because guessing a proper reaction time is very difficult to do. When I read that they were able to classify the person 1 second out, my question was immediately "How does that relate to humans and other AI systems?". Here is what I found for humans, PRT means perception-reaction time.

1. A "standard" or "generally accepted" PRT cannot and does not exist; ( http://www.visualexpert.com/Resources/reactiontime.html )

The first point is that it's very difficult to guess what the PRT is because situations vary, A LOT.

"[PRT] can range from .15 second to many seconds. It is also highly variable. In many cases, the very concept of perception-reaction time simply doesn't apply2. "

The other interesting point is this:

5. PRT generally does not explain why a collision occurred. It is not a cause, but rather a symptom to be explained. The real cause lies in the answer to the question, "Why was the PRT insufficient?"

Why did the AV have to respond to this lady in under 2 seconds of possibly being able to detect her? Because she was walking her bike across the street where she shouldn't have. Add to that she was doing this at night and was with a bicycle, makes it that much harder to respond to. Could a person have braked in time? Maybe. Could an AV have braked in time? Maybe.

For reference here is a screen shot from the video taken about 3.5 seconds before collision. Can you spot the lady and her bike? There is a lot more than detecting visually (LIDAR ect...). However this is the only data we have so far.
new-video-shows-self-driving-uber-before-fatally-crashing-into-pedestrian.jpg


It doesn't seem as obvious as some of you seem to feel. It's a very complicated problem/investigation. These types of incidents will inevitably increase as AVs become more widespread. It's important that as a society we react rationally and not emotionally.

Final point:
This little exhibition by Mobileye, while it should be taken with a grain of salt, at least gives a hint at what should have been happening inside that car’s brain.

I think the first half of this sentence should be highlighted. Mobileye is a pitching their product. This is going to be a trillion dollar industry and there is blood in the water. There is very clear bias from the source and I don't think they paint a complete picture. Their insight does help to begin to paint a complete picture though, as the bolded highlights. Good read.
 

joshcryer

it's ok, you're all right now
The car that they were using had its own collision avoidance disabled (would not have stopped in time probably but would have braked and lessened the impact, possibly saving the pedestrian), fucking Uber is a disgrace, the safety driver, Uber itself, just totally fucking autonomous vehicles:



Everything went bad here. I suspect this will not be seen by history as the first autonomous vehicle death. It's just a death due to lots of conflicting problems.

I would also like to tout that I called this from the start regarding lighting conditions, someone else mentioned how the woman crossing should've seen the car coming and another said how they maybe thought she thought she was safe to cross. Giving the numerous videos showing the actual lighting conditions she likely thought it was safe to cross. Mind you her eyes were adjusted to the street lights (and not focused on a phone in a car), she just figured the car would brake as far as I can tell. The Uber driver, 1) not focusing on the road at all and 2) looking at their phone with non-dark light adjusted vision was literally incapable of reacting in time. Even if the Uber driver saw her crossing in their peripheral vision (very slim) it wasn't going to matter with white light adjusted vision looking at the phone. We see in the video the Uber driver only realized at or near the point of impact (when the peripheral vision showed effectively a body on their hood).
 
Last edited:

Kenpachii

Member
Beyond me how these cars are even legal.

I would have been able to avoid a collision by ramming my steering wheel to the left, even a tiny adjustment would have saved her life.

Even the guy that paid zero attention in the car seemed to react faster then the god dam car.
 
Last edited:

WaterAstro

Member
Doesn't seem possible to avoid that. Cyclist need to obey the roads as much as cars do. A normal driver would have crashed into it the same at those speeds.
How advanced is the car? Is it Google spinning camera with a million sensors advanced? Or just a slow down, speed up sensor like most luxury cars?

Until we get to the point where all cars are autonomous and synchronized with each other and active satellite imagery, accidents will happen.
 
Last edited:

pramod

Banned
Hmm I just realized, wasn't she jaywalking?....at night...on a dark road.

If this was any regular accident, would a human driver even be liable?
 

TheMikado

Banned
Hmm I just realized, wasn't she jaywalking?....at night...on a dark road.

If this was any regular accident, would a human driver even be liable?

No, unless:

It can be proven that the driver was negligent in some manner beyond standard expectations and that this negligence directly resulted in the death.

Examples include:
Texting while driving.
Reckless driving/speeding.
Driving under the influence.
Knowingly using a faulty vehicle.
Examples include headlights being out or bad brakes which could have directly lead to the death in question.

Basically if it could be proven that Uber did not take the industry standards safety precautions which would be the minimum expectations for safety and liability they could beheld liable the same way as if some of the above circumstances influenced the outcome of scenario which resulted in death.
 

THE:MILKMAN

Member
Hope it is OK to bump this thread with the latest from the NTSB: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-44574290

The police report suggests the car's driver was streaming an episode of talent show The Voice rather than monitoring the car's progress.

This revealed the Uber car had about six seconds to react after spotting Ms Herzberg crossing the road in the dark ahead of it.
The car "failed" to identify Ms Herzberg as a pedestrian, it found, and took no action to avoid hitting her nor did it perform an emergency stop.

So a failure by both human and technology. The worse possible scenario.
 
Last edited:

llien

Member
Well, it was pretty clear from the footage released immediately, that driver was interacting with her mobile phone, rather than watching what's going on on the road.
 

THE:MILKMAN

Member
Well, it was pretty clear from the footage released immediately, that driver was interacting with her mobile phone, rather than watching what's going on on the road.

It was to me too but a surprising number of people seemed to put most blame on the pedestrian immediately and even remember the Tempe Police Chief saying something along the lines of it being unavoidable before the investigation got started? That was clearly wrong.
 

Dunki

Member
It was to me too but a surprising number of people seemed to put most blame on the pedestrian immediately and even remember the Tempe Police Chief saying something along the lines of it being unavoidable before the investigation got started? That was clearly wrong.
The blame would be that she crossed the street at a place she should hav not done it. If you walk by red you also can get killed.
 

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Well, it was pretty clear from the footage released immediately, that driver was interacting with her mobile phone, rather than watching what's going on on the road.

Yeah but when you understand that the driver was watching "The Voice" it just makes everything feel that much worse.
 
Top Bottom