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First downsampled 1080p screens from PS4 Pro (Titanfall 2)

PodcastFips

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Jun 26, 2013
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I wouldn't even pay 100€ because there is little difference at all in those screens. Titanfall I looking great right now on a standard ps4, playing it since Wednesday.
At least you edited 'no' to 'little'. Even then, this post is still delusional.
 

Yoday

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Jun 10, 2013
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Yup.

Those thinking its not...dont even know what to say...
It depends on the game. A game like Rise of the Tomb Raider with shit AA is going to benefit quite a bit, as will games that use a heavy amount of blur inducing post process AA. But, games that already use a decent form of AA aren't going to see a much difference. The difference between WoW at 4K super sampling on my 1080p screen and WoW at 1080p with 4x MSAA is basically nothing.
 

BigTnaples

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Feb 10, 2011
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I wouldn't even pay 100€ because there is little difference at all in those screens. Titanfall I looking great right now on a standard ps4, playing it since Wednesday.
Haha. Wow. You sound delusional friend.
 

BONKERS

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Jul 26, 2013
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A 4k screen would look superior than a downsampled 1080p image. Downsampling is awesome and cleans up the image a ton but textures still won't look as clear as they would on a 4k set.

Edit - This doesn't apply however to if a dev decided to add extra graphical features to a 1080p mode. I'm just strictly talking about IQ
A good anti-aliased image is more accurate to the ground truth. Than one without good AA. Thus image quality will look far better on the one with better AA.
At 4k, you will be getting IQ similar to the 1080p shot here in Titanfall, if not worse from the extra artifacts from CBR or whatever they decide to use.

Image quality isn't about the quantity of pixels. It's about the quality of pixels. (And Titanfall here on standard PS4 based on the screenshots, is a soft smudgy mess.)
You might be able to see more pixels, but the underlying assets are still the same. And 1080p output with good AA will have a more accurate presentation because it's closer to the ground truth.

In today's world with as much complex shading and aliasing issues as there are. This will generally be the case.

When you can get AA and texture filtering at 4k output like this
http://u.cubeupload.com/MrBonk/f2affxiiiimg20150713224.jpg

(Days Gone gets pretty close because it uses UE4's TAA. But suffers some artifacts present from UE4's TAA and whatever solution they are using to get to 4k
http://images.pushsquare.com/news/2016/10/ps4_exclusive_days_gone_looks_insane_on_ps4_pro/attachment/2/original.jpg)


Then the IQ gap won't be as big. But as it stands, most PS4 games are going to be uprendered to 4k with CBR or similar solutions from a lower resolution. This comes with it's own artifacts that make aliasing slightly worse. And as far as AA goes once you get to 4k, they will be using basic PPAA, no AA or some form of TAA. (Then you get the issues that TAA creates. Using TAA with SSAA however, will mitigate some of them.)

Just some examples

4k screenshot of Horizon
http://static2.gamespot.com/uploads/original/1197/11970954/3126133-horizonzerodawn_screens_septevent_3840x2160_05.jpg
Aliasing and CBR edge artifacts are very much an issue.
Downsample that to 1080p
http://u.cubeupload.com/MrBonk/3126133horizonzeroda.jpg
And most of the aliasing disappears.(Though much remains if you know what to look for)

Killing Floor 2
http://static4.gamespot.com/uploads/original/123/1239113/3144456-kf2_ps4pro_october2016+(3).png
http://static1.gamespot.com/uploads/original/123/1239113/3144452-kf2_ps4pro_october2016+(4).png
Very very rough looking.

Downsampled
http://u.cubeupload.com/MrBonk/3144456kf2ps4proocto.jpg
http://u.cubeupload.com/MrBonk/3144452kf2ps4proocto.jpg

Infamous
http://goingsony.com/system/file_uploads/uploads/000/019/020/original/04_-_Infamous_Second_Light_PS4_Pro.jpg
Fairly rough. Surfaces are blurry, aliasing of the normal variety, shader aliasing. And then artifacts on specular reflections and surfaces.
http://u.cubeupload.com/MrBonk/04InfamousSecondLigh.jpg



So....what will look better? 1080p down sampled on a 1080p TV or checkerboard 4k on a 4k TV?
See above.

Until games get better AA at 4k output (Which they will! Just look at Ratchet and Clank's update). A 1080p display with SSAA will look better.
Less aliasing=better image quality.
That's why bullshots look so good. And why screenshots people make of games on PC often look incredibly good. Image quality.
 

Lord Error

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Jun 8, 2004
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Just some examples
You have to keep in mind that pixels on the 4K TV are very small, and you are sitting at the same distance from it that you are sitting from the 1080p TV of the same size. The size of the pixels on 4K TV will be doing an effective supersampling, unless you sit so close to it that you can see individual pixels.

Images you posted show an unfair advantage as you are seeing them 1:1 on what is probably a 1080p monitor.

When I look at them both full screen on my Macbook's 2880x1800 screen, the 4K images actually look crisper and a bit nicer, and the miniscule aliasing problems are still hard to notice due to small pixel size.

On an actual 1080p TV, the downsampled 1080p shots look awesome, but for someone who owns 4K TV, the 4K screens will look better, as the upscaled 1080p gets to be a bit blurry.
 

BigTnaples

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Feb 10, 2011
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Naaaaah, you can't. Come on.


Dunno if youre being sarcastic or not, but it's night and day on my iPhone7 Plus. Absolutely night and day.



When I zoom in, the difference is stunning.


Can't wait to play this on the Pro on a 65" 4K. Should look amazing. My PC has spoiled me on 4K graphics, but since all my friends play on console, this is a fantastic way for me to play with friends and close the fidelity gap.
 

anothertech

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Oct 1, 2014
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It depends on the game. A game like Rise of the Tomb Raider with shit AA is going to benefit quite a bit, as will games that use a heavy amount of blur inducing post process AA. But, games that already use a decent form of AA aren't going to see a much difference. The difference between WoW at 4K super sampling on my 1080p screen and WoW at 1080p with 4x MSAA is basically nothing.
Supersampled images do a lot more than simple AA improvements. WoW wouldn't make a good comparison as the textures are so old and low poly, so in that case sure, but in a game with much more detailed textures it makes a big difference. This is why bullshots use supersampled images.
 
Jul 31, 2015
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Just to clear things up. These shots were taken by someone playing the game in 4K on a 4K TV.

We have no confirmation the game uses supersampling for 1080p users. So people comparing this to what the game will look like on Pro at 1080p have no actual evidence of it doing this yet.

Patience...we're jumping to conclusions here
 

Possumowner

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That's a much sharper,cleaner improvement than I thought it would be.Guess it could really be a decent upgrade for people
 

Putty

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Crikey! The difference has literally forced me to hold off buying a 4k tv for the moment...i was twitchy to begin with given this years 4k HDR models in the size i want/need are bare bones aside from the Sony. Maybe 2017 will see a 32/43 inch 3D 4K tv with mega HDR 8).... one can hope....i live in hope....
 

aravuus

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Aug 30, 2012
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Well fuck, that's actually pretty impressive. I was planning on completely ignoring the Pro since I don't have a 4k TV, but maybe I'll give it a chance after all. We'll see.
 

MaLDo

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I think Pro might be downsampling from 1440p in this game.


In that comparison, the lighting looks to be there, just moved somewhat. I don't know if the game uses some kind of dynamic lighting - if it does, then it might not be missing.

No, it's not there and is not dynamic for that scene (I don't know if it is at the end of the campaign, but is static the first three hours I played at least).



Open two different tabs to realize it
https://abload.de/img/ps4proweks1.png
https://abload.de/img/titanfall22016-11-05049usl.png

Bumps are affected but because the different precision/occlusion the engine thinks those rocks are not occluded. Same happens in the center of the screen for rocks and ship parts (just over the weapon).

And same reason shadows are not applied here

 

Sword Of Doom

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Aug 18, 2013
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Whoa, wait a second. I expected less jaggies, but it literally looks like it has more detail. Well it seems like a don't no how downsampling works and super underestimated it.
The image looks more detailed because it was created with more pixels. It's downsampled to the resolution of your display but that original detail is still there. I'm sure others can explain better
 

pixelation

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Nov 21, 2014
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One looks like you need prescription glasses, the other looks like you just reincarnated as a goddamn eagle.
Damn good... i literally laughed out loud...

And yeah the difference is obvious and magnificent.

So interested in seeing R&C downsampled shots!!!
 

//DEVIL//

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May 28, 2014
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I am not sure what are you people seeing. both pics are not exact same position to judge.

however, I did notice the PRO gun model has no juggies and maybe lil better texture ?


still, I am going to buy the PRO ( already paid for it ) and just waiting for next week.
 

Lucifon

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Jun 29, 2012
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I mean... It looks a little sharper but when you're sat on a sofa meters away actually playing the game that doesn't seem like it'd be a huge difference to me. Sharper is always better but this won't exactly convince 90% of mainstream people.

This is coming from someone who's happily buying a Pro.
 

BigTnaples

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Feb 10, 2011
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I mean... It looks a little sharper but when you're sat on a sofa meters away actually playing the game that doesn't seem like it'd be a huge difference to me. Sharper is always better but this won't exactly convince 90% of mainstream people.

This is coming from someone who's happily buying a Pro.

Nah, as someone who has played a bunch of games both downsampled and native highres, that Pixar like IQ you get is even more noticeable in motion.


Things like shimmering that we as gamers have gotten so used to, are all but gone.


It is absolutely transformative.
 

Jack cw

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Now I think PS4Pro got introduced just so that they could get away with the previous bullshots.
So this is a UbiSoft console?
I mean... It looks a little sharper but when you're sat on a sofa meters away actually playing the game that doesn't seem like it'd be a huge difference to me. Sharper is always better but this won't exactly convince 90% of mainstream people.

This is coming from someone who's happily buying a Pro.
Erm... isn't that exactly what this systems meaining of existence is? Sharper, better gfx? And it's not "little". It's crisp, more detailed and clear, as if you put on your glasses and finally see the clarity and detail in your world. Your hold type LCD displays makes movement always softer. Coupled with low res textures, no anisotropic filtering, no pixel perfect native resolution and crappy AA makes the IQ and general experience pretty meh. Even on your sofa, you'll notice a more stable and especially more detailed picture in movement on 1080p.

If IQ and detail is important for you, than this mid-gen refresh will deliver. I mean just look at sports games. While they run mostly native in 1080p, the LoD and texture resolution are incredibly low making it hard to even see players names on the kit in default camera angles. That will change with downsampling alone and directly influences the experience. This is a significant boost in IQ, especially on consoles.

Again, Pro is not for mainstream, nor will it ever be. If I recall correctly Sony only expects 2m Pros sold in their projections for this fiscal year, so they are well aware that this system is primarily targeted to a very specific and rather small enthusiast audience. Your 10%. PS4 is for the 90%.
 

lord pie

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...

Image quality isn't about the quantity of pixels. It's about the quality of pixels.

....
Well it's both really.

I'm not entirely sure what point your trying to make, but if it's that a 4k game will look better downsampled to 1080p then on a 4k native panel then that's just complete nonsense. That's like saying ps4 games look best with the console set to 480p.

You could argue that investing the extra power in better antialiasing is more worthwhile than resolution - but that's also kinda nonsense. Antialiasing algorithms are limited by spacial and temporal resolution - there are hard limits on what they can do - and they really aren't performance limited either, their varying quality is simply due to being incredibly hard to tune for quality/artefact tradeoffs.

Improving the algorithm really won't go that far beyond today's gold standards in TAA without new hardware features (like checkerboard) because they simply lack the data samples. Hence by far the best thing to do for image quality is to increase sample count - I.e. increase resolution or framerate. Which is exactly the point of the pro.
 

Pezking

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Just to clear things up. These shots were taken by someone playing the game in 4K on a 4K TV.

We have no confirmation the game uses supersampling for 1080p users. So people comparing this to what the game will look like on Pro at 1080p have no actual evidence of it doing this yet.

Patience...we're jumping to conclusions here
Uh...that's pretty important, isn't it?
 

Jack cw

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Mar 14, 2006
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Uh...that's pretty important, isn't it?
Is that even confirmed?
But that is how Pro support on 1080p output will look like though and how downsampling actually works. The game will render internally in the highest native resolution if there are no other optional modes. You wont get a 1080p framebuffer, if the game has Pro support (unless 1080p is the highest native res the game supports).
 

bombshell

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Oct 23, 2013
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Just to clear things up. These shots were taken by someone playing the game in 4K on a 4K TV.

We have no confirmation the game uses supersampling for 1080p users. So people comparing this to what the game will look like on Pro at 1080p have no actual evidence of it doing this yet.

Patience...we're jumping to conclusions here
Just to clear things up.

If the game only has ONE rendering mode on PS4 Pro, be it native 4K or checkerboard 4K (most Pro examples use 1800p resolution here), you'll 100% be getting downsampling if you play that game on a 1080p TV. There's no other way to fit the game on the screen.

If the game also has a dedicated 1080p rendering mode, like Rise of the Tomb Raider, it will obviously not be downsampling, but then you'll get other benefits.
 

John_B

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Nov 1, 2006
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PS4 Pro is the 1080p console we have been waiting for.

I'm buying a Pro and keeping my Panasonic VT60 for a few years until Panasonic makes affordable OLED.
 

GRaider81

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Mar 6, 2014
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Shots look great, those that don't see a difference are either in denial for some reason or seriously need their eyes checked.

Saying that I'm surprised with so many people being amazed.
It's like people have finally had their eyes opened to how great games look nowadays.

Glad console owners are going to experience better IQ, it really is great.
 

Cthulhu_Steev

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Saving TF2 for Pro Day then, leaving it shrinkwrapped till then.

Is that 'Latimer' character a clone of 'Lister'? they pop up in console threads like the fucking plague.
 

chromatic9

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Oct 17, 2014
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Here's where the screens come from. They're running in PS4 Pro's 4k mode. No downsampling and I pixel counted once screen and it looks around 1440p upscaled to 2160p

some titanfall 2 screenshots:


https://goo.gl/photos/JGA6wFrRePwjUKjb7
https://goo.gl/photos/RdjRAxhwQ9S9tQFD6
https://goo.gl/photos/b3ikfCbukzVcToTF9

abload and cubeupload are not possible because the files are to big, i hope Google is also ok.

Im not really sure if Titanfall2 is using HDR because I have no idea how to find out.

I will post some more stuff tomorrow
Click on download to get the full image from google, just clicking on the link will only show a compressed resized preview.
 
Sep 3, 2014
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Looks better on a the Pro for sure, but I don't think it's that huge of a difference personally. Feel like if i showed this to some friends, it wouldn't convince them all that much yet.

With that being said, still looking forward to picking up a Pro once I can get it bundled with a game.