Heavy's Sandvich
Member
The background was certainly an homage to Super Mario World.
I wish they'd have the same gate exit as it as well.
I wish they'd have the same gate exit as it as well.
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First look at New Super Mario Bros. WiiU?
- Thread starter Neiteio
- Start date
I actually just got a friend of mine who doesnt play games at all to play Rayman with me. I sold her entirely with the visuals.
Where the hell did "Simplistic graphics are unintimidating to non-gamers." even come from? Is there any proof of that? I mean, Just Dance seems to do just fine selling a ton despite screenshots looking like reject Tron and filled with trendy euro graphic design flourishes
Unregistered007
Banned
not impressive at all. Lets wait till tomorrow before jumping to conclusions.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
That seems condescending.
Nocturnowl
Member
One could argue that 2D Sonic games always ran creative circles around 2D Mario in the art department, visually i'd put the Genesis/Mega Drive Sonic games above SMW.
Make Eggs, Throw Eggs part 2.
EatinOlives
Member
It didn't really "come from" anywhere, it's just a weak argument to defend an incredibly bland style that's nearly a decade old already and never looked good.
I don't know what happened, but ever since the original NSMB, the 2D Mario series took an incredibly sharp turn into blandsville and never returned. I'm surprised people actually like it, let alone defend it.
Metallix87
Member
Time to finally implement the Chicken Suit? (Seen in this NSMBW preproduction art)
I'm ready to wear a chicken suit!
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Oh yeah, Sonic 2 and Sonic 3 in particular are still gorgeous to this day.
Ninty's conference is Tuesday.
Man, tonight's Nintendo Direct really did the trick. I'm surprised how much they've managed to hype me by simply improving the backgrounds in NSMB and making Miiverse look so clean and inviting. Oh, and clickable sticks and the pro controller, of course, and the promise that Tuesday's conference will be almost all about WiiU games.
EatinOlives
Member
Ninty's conference is Tuesday.
Man, tonight's Nintendo Direct really did the trick. I'm surprised how much they've managed to hype me by simply improving the backgrounds in NSMB and making Miiverse look so clean and inviting. Oh, and clickable sticks and the pro controller, of course, and the promise that Tuesday's conference will be almost all about WiiU games.
I think you were ready to be hyped regardless of what was shown if all it took was improved backgrounds in an NSMB game
Subconsciously, I probably was! I honestly didn't expect new news, though.I think you were ready to be hyped regardless of what was shown if all it took was improved backgrounds in an NSMB game
She played it for what. 15 minutes? Or did she actually buy the game? And you still have cover the extremities of the masses. And Iwata himself has condensed the argument of lush graphics, more sophisticated designs as something exclusive to veteran core gamers rather than inclusive of "potential" gamers. He has said it like a billion times in the keynotes.
I think a better way to put it is that "bland" appeals and connects to more people. And on top of that, Rayman Origins isn't exactly a great example to the contrary.
Dash Kappei
Not actually that important
Well, for starters Paper Mario always had incredible art. TTYD is a masterpiece in that sense
EatinOlives
Member
If it appeals and connects to people, by definition it's not "bland".
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Well the style definitely appeals to people.
toastyToast
Member
Models look like they're upressed from NSMB DS
Background looks much better though
Background looks much better though
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Yeah, I really hope they upgrade the models before release.
Time to finally implement the Chicken Suit? (Seen in this NSMBW preproduction art)
holy shit I want this in game
Pachterballs
Banned
The mii faces on the world map = urgh
Spieler Eins
Member
Time to finally implement the Chicken Suit? (Seen in this NSMBW preproduction art)
I need this. I don't even care about the ability, lol. Much better than lol-Ice Mario, which was just unnecessary.
I wouldn't mind seeing cel-shading but no outlines thanks
TheCongressman1
Member
Yes. If the foreground looked as fleshed out, and as interesting as the background, then this would be perfect.
You know, I didn't mind the way the first NSMB looked. I didn't even mind the way the Wii one looked. In fact, I liked the style at the time. The problem I have is that it's so repetitive. I'd like to see something new now.
Starting off a new generation, the biggest leap in tech Nintendo's ever had, with a Mario game that looks like* a game that came from the DS is not a great idea.
*Like, as in the style. I am aware there is more detail. I know some of you will want to point that out.
The Chicken Suit could basically be Yoshi's egg toss from Yoshi's Island, finally brought to a true 2D Mario game.
I'm curious about the "ballooning baby Yoshi" mentioned in the one screenshot. Why baby Yoshi? I mean, hell yes I want it but I wonder how this Yoshi will function next to, say, the balloon adult Yoshi powerup in Galaxy 2.
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
What keeps being left out of the debate on one side, is that NSMB is not made exclusively for hardcore gamers.
The point about "clarity" should take into account how open, friendly, and easy to grasp the visual design makes it for the average person. Who is the audience Nintendo hoped to recapture with NSMB.
And it worked incredibly well.
I think it seems that nobody crying "lazy and generic" is trying to put themselves into the shoes of actual ordinary people. Not core gamers. Not people who care primarily about the art style of a game.
The truth is, the more stylized art is, the greater chance it has of turning a lot of people off. It becomes weirder, harder to instantly grasp, less friendly, and can be less intuitive to the uninitiated.
That is why the Mario games have always gone for that kind of clarity. That is why the 2D Mario games always kept things as simple as possible, compared to other Nintendo platformers. Even games made in the same era, their contemporaries.
The public has responded powerfully to NSMB's super friendly art style. Do people really think that Nintendo is unwiling to spend coin on a series that sells so much?
It's more that what people keep wanting them to do is simply unnecessary, and could even be counterproductive, to what they achieved with the brand.
It's the reason why Mario Kart looks the same as it has for a while now. Which is, in itself, an odd point - where are the cries about Mario Kart 7 using basically the same art style and themes as Mario Kart Wii, which itself was very similar to Mario Kart DS?
(There are, in fact, some people who hate on the visuals in current Mario Kart. But they seem to be a great minority compared to people who accept it.)
Mario Kart also has a very open, not-too-rich, not-too-weird visual style. It can be appealing to virtually everyone - except, perhaps, hardcore gamers who have tastes that require the stylized and novel to be excited. But that's OK with Nintendo, apparently. Like NSMB, Mario Kart currently sells bajillons of copies because almost everyone alive loves it.
NSMB has become a bread and butter version of Mario that invites a bedrock audience to buy into the platform. Ironically, the Wii U game screen even shows they're not resting on their laurels. If they were as 'lazy' and 'cheap' as people who want a different artstyle claim, I think that the New Super Mario Bros. Mii game (which looks to have been a mock-up or demo after all) would have been what they went with - something that really was identical to NSMB Wii without any effort to spruce it up.
PeakPointMatrix
Member
You cannot possibly believe realistic lush graphics actually scare mass audiences away when some of the most popular best selling things are based heavy realism and detail. I guess Avatar really scared away those masses with it's lush vibrant realistic scenery?
Not that Mario needs to become realistic and ultra detailed. But the argument that this bland microsoft office style is necessary to not scare people away? No, if anything it will bore them away. It has for me.
Nocturnowl
Member
Ice Flower isn't that bad, makes enemies into great projectiles, enemy platforms which can also be wall jumped off, a way to shatter Dry Bones and put out podoboos.
Gives Mario an awful colour scheme though.
Kaijima's talking about a game a non-gamer needs to intuitively read to intuitively play, not a movie that can be hyper-detailed since it's absorbed passively.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Sure, but sales figures don't agree. Actually, it'll be interesting to see how the third NSMB game sells.
IntelliHeath
As in "Heathcliff"
I am thinking that they are going to display compatibility between 3DS and Wii U for NSMB2 and NSMB Mii
TheCongressman1
Member
This. I have no idea where this idea came from. 2D Mario sells because it's 2D Mario, not because it has an 'accessible art style'.
I think the idea comes from people having difficulty knowing intuitively which ledge to jump for in Uncharted or platform to board in Trine since the screens are busy. Those are some of the examples raised, anyway. I personally think Uncharted did a good job keeping it clear where you could go most of the time (brightly painted ledges, etc).
PeakPointMatrix
Member
I think that will be a better indication. The casual masses that "need" this friendly artstyle: will they actually go out and buy another more powerful console? And even if they do, theyll go in expecting better looking games. How will they react to a game that looks exactly like its predecessor?
radioheadrule83
Banned
Time to finally implement the Chicken Suit? (Seen in this NSMBW preproduction art)
I want this with
- controlled descents a la Zelda cuckoos
- yoshi style egg laying and egg throwing
- billy hatcher style egg rolling (roll down hills at enemies)
Jason's Ultimatum
Member
I'm waiting for a new 2D artstyle. Getting tired of the same looking 2D games. Should've done the artstyle like YI.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Well, it is technically high-res
I mean, I don't think that the NSMB games look great or anything. This game is what the Wii game probably should have looked like. But I don't think this one specifically looks too bland, and I don't think overall any of them look horrible.
PeakPointMatrix
Member
Kaijima's talking about a game a non-gamer needs to intuitively read to intuitively play, not a movie that can be hyper-detailed since it's absorbed passively.
I think the link is closer than you think. (my god, too many rhymes)
The gameplay will remain the same. Visually, there are many directions you can go that shouldn't hinder one's ability to grasp the controls, if they remain the same. If a person can sit down and visually absorb, understand, and read something like Avatar, there should be no problem for people comprehending an artstyle that reaches for higher creative peaks than what we currently have with Mario. Changing the artstyle won't suddenly make the game harder to control.
Frankenstrat
Member
Love the new backgrounds. Could just use some new character models and all would be well.
Also, I'm not the only one that would be blown away by Mario with an artstyle in the vein of Trine, right?
Also, I'm not the only one that would be blown away by Mario with an artstyle in the vein of Trine, right?
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
I wouldn't like the Trine style. I think they definitely can increase the detail from what we're seeing here but Trine is too visually busy for this style of gameplay
TheCongressman1
Member
Yeah, you can keep good indications while having a non-clinical feeling style.
Also, I don't think it's the clean style that I don't like about this, it's how sparse objects are. Bringing the background elements into the immediate background level wouldn't hurt. A few small rock spires sticking up here and there, some of those lush bushes. And if there were more details like grass and flowers along the way, that might spice it up a bit more.
Which one is the third one? NSMB2 or NSMBWiiU?
K
kittens
Unconfirmed Member
I'm adamantly anti-2.5D, but this looks FARRRRR better than past NSMB games.
That is also a problem. The way it feels like there are miles between the background and foreground contributes to the feeling of sparseness.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
I don't think we know yet
IntelliHeath
As in "Heathcliff"
Freezie KO
Banned
I feel Mario Kart mixes it up because the different courses really offer a breath of fresh air. Those are the same "art style", but offer a variety of new visuals. Thus far what we've seen in both this game and NSMB2 are your standard world themes as well.
Now, that might not be fair. Maybe there are really creative worlds, despite this mediocre art style, but it's up to Nintendo to show us those. Also, Mario Kart is criticized when it doesn't mix things up. Personally, I thought Double Dash and Mario Kart 7 brought a lot to the series that was new and that worked. MK:Wii not so much.