Choke on the Magic
Banned
Kinitari said:
Really? Enlighten yourself with wikipedia? :lol
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Five 'Witches' Burned Alive in Rwanda
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Really? Enlighten yourself with wikipedia? :lol
speculawyer
Member
Boozeroony said:
Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it, you'd have good people doing good things and evil people doing bad things, but for good people to do bad things, it takes religion.
~ Steven Weinberg, Nobel Laureate in physics
Edit: No, this does NOT mean that all religion is bad. It is just pointing out that (alleged) divine authority can be very dangerous.
Shawn, let's face it, you're not credible on this subject when you're literally an inbred who called for the wholesale extermination of the Iranian people and then started having homicidal thoughts because no girl wants you. Not to mention you think anything less than unconditional support for Israel constitutes anti-semitism.Shawn said:
Yeah, no. The reason was to destroy WMDs - the ones that turned out not to exist. Saddam did let inspectors into the country. The Bush administration did falsify intelligence to mislead the public into supporting the war. In simple terms, he lied.
EDIT: Added links to make it clear I wasn't making this stuff up.
Earthstrike
Member
Haleon said:
It took 3 pages for bush to be mentioned even once by one poster.
I love how this singular mention (yours being the second) made it a bush bashing fest.
Boozeroony
Member
speculawyer said:
Truer words are rare.
Choke on the Magic said:
Maybe enlighten is a poor choice of words - and I'm not going to claim that Wikipedia is 100% accurate - but in this situation the multiple links to multiple sources all saying the exact same thing, well I'm not sure what else you would really need.
Don't even tell me you have the galls to compare the “torture” the United States did to the Guantanamo prisoners, to the methods of torture Saddam used on his people. Do you even want to know the kind of torture Saddam used on political prisoners? Do you even want to know that he had people skinned alive? Do you even want to know that he had people -- while they were still alive -- put in WOOD CHIPPERS, sometimes feet first, sometimes head first?bionic77 said:
There's no way you're going to sit here and tell me that there's no difference between the “torture” the US did to Guantanamo prisoners, and the torture Saddam did to political prisoners.
Human nature itself is bad. Take away all religion tomorrow and you wouldn't see a marked difference in people's behavior (nor would see any decrease in the good that people do in the name of religion).speculawyer said:
Religion doesn't make people greedy or evil, it just gives some people an excuse for their actions. We can make up any sort of laws that do the same thing (i.e. slavery, separate but equal, etc.). Just like in Jurassic park, man will always find a way (to be an asshole).
edit: speaking of assholes
Nice way to select a portion of what I was saying. And genius next time you try and selectively quote someone at least do a halfassed job of picking the parts that convey the message you want to convey.Shawn said:
Or maybe just read the entire post before you decide to fly off the handle.
Tornado Condor
Member
GreekWolf said:
I've never seen this video. You have a link?
edit: nvm, found it =[
Good Lord have mercy: That is truly insane. I didn't watch the vid ( I clicked and heard, but couldn't take it)
Witchcraft in the African culture is never going to go away. Hell, when I was in Catholic school, there was this girl who had a seizure, and of course we had to say she was possessed by demons.
Also it's not only in Africa that people are burned like that. Woman in places like Saudi Arabia are burned alive and beaten if they have sex before marriage, ect.
Witchcraft in the African culture is never going to go away. Hell, when I was in Catholic school, there was this girl who had a seizure, and of course we had to say she was possessed by demons.
Also it's not only in Africa that people are burned like that. Woman in places like Saudi Arabia are burned alive and beaten if they have sex before marriage, ect.
Shawn said:
I understand your point but... I mean torture is torture. That shit is a slippery slope if I've ever seen one, and I hate using that phrase. I can see why someone would compare it, it makes the united states seem hypocritical - "Sadam Tortured people! Well yeah I know we tortured people too, but they were mostly bad guys, and we didn't torture them as badly as he did".
Try scrolling up.Shawn said:
captive said:
:lol It was in 3rd world.
She was asked to get up from her seat to write on the board cause she wasn't paying attention. She got up, fell and started screaming and rolling on the floor. We had to call a priest and sprinkle her with Holy water. We were innocent Catholics school girls. Of course the devil is after us.
I got used to it. Hell, it doesn't always happen in 3rd world countries. i could go to a "mostly black"church and found people who are said to be possessed and had to be kept, because the taught of people praying near them is causing the devil to be outside of them.
-COOLIO-
The Everyman
so i watched it. watching someone being burned alive, while being beaten, and ridiculed is pretty surreal. it really is one of those things where you wish you could be their and kill some people even though you know you have a naive perspective on the entire situation.
i hope the 1st world can help advance Africa a lot faster.
ya that's the most surreal part i guess. when someone just sits their and takes the burning untill they die. what the hell must they be feeling? is it even describable?
i hope the 1st world can help advance Africa a lot faster.
Mash said:
ya that's the most surreal part i guess. when someone just sits their and takes the burning untill they die. what the hell must they be feeling? is it even describable?
Instigator
Banned
After seeing the first few posts, I think I am going to skip watching the video.
The article itself paints a pretty horrible picture.
The article itself paints a pretty horrible picture.
starchild excalibur
Member
-COOLIO- said:
pretty much hits the nail on the head for me. watching all those people standing by and watching made me just as angry at them. It's videos like this that momentarily make you see colonization as an entirely good thing, but of course you realize that it's an idiotic thought.
and all these superficial, unimportant "my cellulite is gone!" ads on this page make me even angrier.
TheCardPlayer
Likes to have "friends" around to "play cards" with
Seriously, RE5 got called out for racism when they show black men beating something in a sack but this is real life and they are beating people on fire.
Absolutely ridiculous. These people are in severe need of help. Not invasion, but let's spend some money on educating them instead of bombing them.
Absolutely ridiculous. These people are in severe need of help. Not invasion, but let's spend some money on educating them instead of bombing them.
BakedPigeon
Banned
I couldn't even watch past 15 seconds, i was too fucking disgusted.
Honestly, I think more people should be able to see this kind of stuff. Not kids necessarily, but I'm tired of the 'whitewashing' in the media. This shows the ugly reality of life and none of this can be corrected if nobody knows about it because it isn't being shown.
A lot of people in America aren't really concerned with war or what's going on in other nations because they don't realize the kind of things that actually go on in wars. Usually they see a far away video of an explosion, but never close-up pictures of the actual brutality that goes on. It's not pleasant, but that's the point. People will actually have much more 'weight' when it comes to war and brutality. It's easy on the net to say 'haha nukkkeeee em!' until you see people with their faces burned off and the deformities that come with the radiation.
A lot of people in America aren't really concerned with war or what's going on in other nations because they don't realize the kind of things that actually go on in wars. Usually they see a far away video of an explosion, but never close-up pictures of the actual brutality that goes on. It's not pleasant, but that's the point. People will actually have much more 'weight' when it comes to war and brutality. It's easy on the net to say 'haha nukkkeeee em!' until you see people with their faces burned off and the deformities that come with the radiation.
SwitchBladeKneegrow
Banned
Man, after reading all the reactions here I expected way worse.
Boozeroony said:
This might very well be true but there are loads of reasons that stuff like this happens. I mean even witch killings (which are in no way christian doctrine anyway) would have been used in the Middle Ages as an excuse to murder people you dislike. These people aren't different to us they might have different beliefs but they have a rational calculating side as well. Power struggles are often the cause of stuff like this but I agree group vs group ideologies religious, superstition, racial or political are also a major cause to.
Sorry I hope this doesn't turn into a religion thread and everyone of any belief or of none can just unite against this sickening vid but its just a bugbear of mine being a history student when people make generalisations with regard to motivations to commit murder and religious belief.
kevm3 said:
Not everyone wants to though, that's the real problem. There's people like us (not in a bragging way) who relish information and experiences that open our eyes, even horrific ones like this and then there's a large amount of people who are quite happy with the odd documentary but, for the most part, media feelgoodery, like some lass on X-Factor who has some shitty sob story and qualifies for the next round. This story, and particularly the video, has genuinely affected me.
bionic77 said:
Yeah, it's annoying that any time one of these threads come up, they fill up with "lol religiotards. Without their backwards religion, they wouldn't have done this." Some of these atheists are turning into secular versions of evangelists/fundamentalists.
Brutality occurs amongst both secular and nonsecular alike. It's really no different than some Christians saying, "Ugh, look at those evil atheists, shooting up schools because of their obvious lack of morals."
Some people just have brutal tendencies and will continue to be brutal and do cruel things no matter what philosophy they supposedly abide by.
kevm3 said:
I agree, I don't think faith or religion is the problem here, it's just general ignorance. Religion really can find it's place in a scientifically informed country, it's just arse backwards ignorance and social pressures to conform that allow things like this to happen. I think pathological society can be result from many things, not simply religion.
speculawyer
Member
kevm3 said:
No, it is very different. The were burning people that the claim were 'witches'. Witches are not real. They are a complete superstition . . . they are not real. They are killing people based an imaginary belief. If that imaginary belief were gone, this killing wouldn't happen.
Does that mean everything would be puppies and rainbows? No. But it would be an improvement. And it would be good to make sure kids were taught morals too, but that has nothing to with being an atheist or not.
Mash said:
Honestly, I almost feel like we're trapped in some beautiful bubble. Some sort of Disney fantasyland. Things are fine on the homefront and we're sheltered by the media from what goes on elsewhere. Seeing pictures of what bombs and bullets actually do to people should help give people a broader perspective on what war actually is. It's so easy for people to clamor for war when they'll likely be sitting behind their computer chairs or on their couch, absorbing their chosen form of entertainment as life goes on as usual. We're so sheltered here from even seeing violence, so a lot of Americans don't have the respect for it that they need to. And I agree, we're stuck because it's not profitable and 'we don't want our little ones to see it,' so we'll continue to get neutered news that sucks much of the reality out of a situation.
ChoklitReign
Member
You need to watch the South Park episode with the atheist sea otters.Ninja99 said:
Monocle
Member
If America is anything it's not secular. I'm not going to go too deep into Bush's faith-driven politics here. It's enough to point out that there is an inverse correlation between education and violent or otherwise immoral behavior--and, tellingly, religiosity. (A self-evident but probably necessary qualifier: while education and secularism drastically reduce wickedness, they don't outright preclude it. Most large societies have a small percentage of irredeemable sociopaths and psychopaths. Taking away ignorance and religion doesn't cure monsters; it merely removes most of the justifications good people have for doing wrong.)bionic77 said:
Ignorance, with all its unpleasant by-products, is a major culprit in the abuses you refer to. When you have a leader who, along with his subordinates, views reason as the province of the untrustworthy "reality-based community," it should surprise no one when human rights violations become government-sanctioned policy. Look at the motives of the people who conduct the torture and what will you find? Radical patriotism, xenophobia, the desire for revenge, blind loyalty to a nebulous cause, unquestioning obedience to superiors; concepts toxic to free thought. Ignorance is the root of most human misery.
Before I begin, I'd like to repeat that I don't condone the behavior in this video, matter of fact, I've yet to see it and refuse to watch such brutal and unethical behavior. Having said that, people are absolutely correct in saying that Imperialism, Slavery, Colonization, and other forms of exploitment are partly to blame for much of Africa's current situation. To think otherwise is quite honestly wrong.
Imperialism and Colonization, at their core, are much more complex and wicked then their definitions would suggest. Both boil down to one country injecting culture, religion, infrastructure, ideals, etc to another country, typically through force. Obviously, this is a relatively simplified version of the process but it gets the idea down quite well. People seem to have this idea that these two concepts were simply some civilized countries attempting to domesticate or enlighten a group of heathens (I'm exaggerating a bit) but that honestly couldn't be farther from the truth. Before talking about Imperialism and Colonization, one must look back at the reasons for partaking in such time consuming matters, the answer to this question is the reason the very same reason for Africa's current state. I'll give you a hint, it wasn't out of the bottom of their hearts.
We stripped them of riches, turned them against each other, installed a foreign culture, and pulled out before finishing the job and we were expecting them to come out on top? They got the shitty end of the deal and it definitely shows.
The situtation in the continent simply breeds hopelessness, how are we to expect individuals to overcome such a dire situation? It's not the people that are innately savage, it's the situation they're been trusted into. There's a good reason why crime and poverty are interconnected, compare this list of murders by country (http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_percap-crime-murders-per-capita) to this ranking of countries by GDP (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal) ), I'm willing to bet there is a clear cut pattern.
Imperialism and Colonization, at their core, are much more complex and wicked then their definitions would suggest. Both boil down to one country injecting culture, religion, infrastructure, ideals, etc to another country, typically through force. Obviously, this is a relatively simplified version of the process but it gets the idea down quite well. People seem to have this idea that these two concepts were simply some civilized countries attempting to domesticate or enlighten a group of heathens (I'm exaggerating a bit) but that honestly couldn't be farther from the truth. Before talking about Imperialism and Colonization, one must look back at the reasons for partaking in such time consuming matters, the answer to this question is the reason the very same reason for Africa's current state. I'll give you a hint, it wasn't out of the bottom of their hearts.
We stripped them of riches, turned them against each other, installed a foreign culture, and pulled out before finishing the job and we were expecting them to come out on top? They got the shitty end of the deal and it definitely shows.
The situtation in the continent simply breeds hopelessness, how are we to expect individuals to overcome such a dire situation? It's not the people that are innately savage, it's the situation they're been trusted into. There's a good reason why crime and poverty are interconnected, compare this list of murders by country (http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_percap-crime-murders-per-capita) to this ranking of countries by GDP (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal) ), I'm willing to bet there is a clear cut pattern.
speculawyer
Member
It was not all that many years ago that Christians were burning witches at the stake . . . actually, for all I know, those people in the video could be Christians. It is the Bible that preaches against witches.Mash said:
An our 'modern sophisticated' religions have bunk in them as well . . . children that die because the parents don't take them to doctors, people that impede embryonic stem cell research, people that refuse blood transfusions and die, people that kill gays & abortion doctors, etc.
I'm saying they are equally bad . . . certainly they are not. But I'd like to mock & eliminate all the bad.
xS1TH L0RDx
Banned
I'm guessing that I'm like many in this thread that could only stomach a couple seconds of that.
speculawyer
Member
rpmurphy said:
Oh, they practice it . . . but it doesn't really do anything except some placebo effects. And if the other people would just realize the witchcraft is bunk, things would be fine. We could all just ignore the witches.
speculawyer said:
Such things could be said for all religious rituals, and yet not all practitioners are persecuted in such grisly ways as these people have often suffered. I don't believe people in civilized nations hold any less contempt towards religious rituals not within their familiarity than the people in the video. However, the core difference between us and them, which in our case is why such violence does not occur at large, is the established culture of law based on fundamental individual rights. Superstition and intolerance of superstition will probably always exist. That doesn't mean we can't prevent these acts of violence.
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